*Final Loads* 30-06 with RL-25

O

Onemoretime

Gunny Sergeant
Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 1, 2007
1,330
11
San Diego, CA
#1
I started testing RL-25 today since I have 10 pounds of it.

It was the first time shooting my new rifle that Randy (RD Precision) built me. I started off zeroing the rifle and had to do it the old fashioned way since my bore scope went TU. So after getting on paper at 50 and dialing in at a hundred. I shot one round at a .85 inch dot and center punched it. I then shot a few groups through the chrono to see what HSM's 175gr match ammo was running at through my rifle. All rounds were under 2750 fps. So it seems that most 30-06 ammo out there is loaded to be safe in a Garand, or so I believe.

So with 20 rounds of HSM through her. I settled in to some load testing. Last night I loaded up 20 rounds. 5 each of 62, 62.5, 63, and 63.5. I loaded all rounds at 3.35 oal. Hornady 180 grain BTHP Match bullets, Win cases, and 210 primers.

62 - 2804 average es = 23
62.5 - 2823.8 average es = 24
63 - 2848.6 average es = 18
63.5 - 2876.8 average es = 26

The best groups were with the 63.5 and the 62.5 but it could have been me. There were zero pressure signs so I think I will cram a bit more powder in and see what waits up over 2900.

I shot a 10 round group with some Fiocchi 180 grain match afterwards. 1.204 inches with three mistakes by me and if take the two worst mistakes out it's .698 inches. I'll do some more dry fire and tighten the "package" up.

I currently have 50 rounds through this rifle.
 
#2
Re: 30-06 with RL-25

RL25 might be a tad slow for optimum performance with 180s, but sounds like you are off to a good start.

Most of us were getting 2900-ish fps with 60-62gr RL22 and 190 Matchkings, with 26" barrel.

Enjoy your new rifle! A good 30-06 is easy to like.
 
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#8
Re: 30-06 with RL-25

I ran some W760 in the 06 with 178's. It shot well, metered well but didn't fill the case as much as I'd like. I remember getting somewhere around 2850 from my rifle. This is the same tube that throws a 208 at 2885 avg with RL22 and 178's go 2920 with H4350.

I quit chasing the stuff and used it for throwing 303 Brit rounds at rocks instead. It loads nicely in that round as well.

I have not tried RL-25, but I do like reading the writeups on it since it's another option to have. So far RL-22 seems to be the trick for me.
 
#9
Re: 30-06 with RL-25

I really want to try some RL-22 but I have 10 pounds of RL-25 don't see myself buying a gun to use it in.

Based on what I've seen so far 3000 fps shouldn't be a problem and the case is full, definitely not a problem with that.
 
#10
Re: 30-06 with RL-25

Update: I switched to loading the 208 Amax since RL-25 is known to be best for heavier bullets. I only had 14 bullets so I loaded 4 different charges 3-3-4-4.

All loads were 3.45 OAL. No pressure signs in ANY of the loads. Could probably do 2900fps easy but I'm going to load a bunch of the 63.5 and maybe continue to ladder up a bit more to 65 grains.

62.5gr x3
2742
2757
2760

63gr x3
2790
2764
2760

63.5 x4
2811
2815
2820
2814
(this was the best group, just over 1/2 inch w/ under 1/2 inch of vertical and I know I pulled one to the right)

64 x 4
2854
2830
2858
2830
(this was the 2nd best group)

The rifle is flawless, fired another 10 rounds of Fiocchi to warm up. She gets tighter every time I shoot her.

A total of 74 rounds down the tube.
 
#11
Re: 30-06 with RL-25

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Montana,
Have you tried any N550 or W760 in the 30-06? </div></div>

No. I've used W760 in the 308 though, with 208/210s. 49-50gr is about max in my gun.
 
#14
Re: 30-06 with RL-25

Here's what the 63.5 line in my QL says

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Code:</div><div class="ubbcode-body ubbcode-pre" ><pre>
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time

+00.0 113 63.50 2753 3500 58828 9916 100.0 1.253
</pre></div></div>

Says I should be 60fps slower at the charge weight. Maybe I got a hotter lot of powder.
 
#15
Re: 30-06 with RL-25

I always figured you'd run out of case capacity with RL25 before catching up to RL22 velocity wise. Looks like RL25 may be THE powder for heavy bullets in '06. The more and more I read here the more of a believer I become in slow burning powders.

How long is your barrel? I'm assuming it is 1:10"
 
#16
Re: 30-06 with RL-25

64 grains fills the case to about a 1/4 inch from the top with out packing it down. I loaded them the other night and check the OAL again before I left today and none of the bullets had pushed out at all.

Here are the specs:

Rem 700 Long Action worked over by Randy Cain (HateCA)
Gen 1 Bolt Knob
Bartlien 1-10 twist barrel 25" from the recoil lug (M24 contour)
Rifle basix trigger
Holland Recoil Lug
Near 25moa Base
HS PSS stock
Premier Heritige 3-15 w/ Gen II Mildot reticle 22mil single turn
 
#17
Re: 30-06 with RL-25

Looks like you're getting right there with the RL22 loads that I have for the same length barrel. I'm just a tad faster, maybe 50fps but those are certainly nothing to balk at.

The load you're getting the best accuracy at is a little down further by 60-70 fps, but still, with the BC that comes along with a 208/210gr 30 cal, nothing to sneeze at.

I'm in almost the same boat, I have a little over 10# of RL-22 on the shelf, so I probably won't buy any RL-25 to try them out with til that's all gone.
 
#18
Re: 30-06 with RL-25

I like the ballistics at 2800fps (8.2 mils to 1k), it seems to be a light load and is comfortable to shoot. I'm still gonna build up to 65 grains and see what is there but I may just stick with 63.5 unless I run into some better accuracy.

I have some 240smk's coming that I will try out as well.
 
#19
Re: **Update 9-16-09**30-06 with RL-25

Went out and shot some more 208's and some 240's today.

First the 208's loaded at 3.45 OAL

I loaded up 63.5 x20, 64 x5, and 64.5 x5. I opened a new can of RL25 which said it was the same lot but my velocities were down from the other day.

63.5 - a 10 round average of 2774.2fps (groups also opened up compared to last time)
64 - a 4 round (1 was an error) average of 2808.5fps (this was the best group, under 1/2 inch center to center with 1/4 inch of vertical)
64.5 - a 5 round average of 2853.6 (this was the 2nd best group)

I'm thinking the new powder is a bit slower so that's why 64gr put me at the 2800 mark and gave me the best accuracy.

I shot some 63.5 at 300 and they weren't even MOA which matches the today's results at 100.

On to the 240's

I loaded these at 3.35 OAL. 57gr x5, 57.5gr x5, 58gr x5, and 58.5gr x5. It was difficult closing the bolt so I'm going to try again at 3.30 OAL which, I found out later, closes easier.

57gr - a 5 round average of 2462fps
57.5 - a 5 round average of 2527fps
58gr - a 5 round average of 2532fps
58.5 - a 5 round average of 2568fps

ALL of these shot really well with the 58gr putting 3 into one hole (unless I missed the paper twice).

Like I said, the bolt was tough to close so I may repeat with 3.30 OAL or ladder up a 1/2 grain starting load and end up with 59 grains. I'm going to run the QL and make a decision.

With the 208's I'm going to load some more 64's and shoot them out at 200 or 300.

124 rounds through her.
 
#20
Re: **Update 9-16-09**30-06 with RL-25

keep it coming. This is fantastic information. I was trying to gear up for RL22 but this seems like a decent 2nd option.

Thanks for the time and effort you have put into this.

Howdy
 
#21
Re: **Update 9-16-09**30-06 with RL-25

I think your temp differences between the two days might be affecting the velocities, that'd be my first guess anyway, since I saw some minor deviation using RL-22 on a couple different days.

25 is looking more and more like a good second option if I can't find 22 in the future, it does look like the 22 still is a little better optimized, but your results are still fantastic
smile.gif


Thanks for the detailed attention to this, all of us 06 shooters are eating it up
 
#22
Re: **Update 9-16-09**30-06 with RL-25

You might be right about the temp difference but I don't recall it being much warmer last Thursday. I'll pay closer attention to it.

Check out these two ladder charts. I definitely need more RL-25 to get the same velocity that RL-22 gives. The benefit is that the case is full so there is better consistency I think. With 25 and the 208 I can basically fill the case up and cram a bullet in there and call it good.

RL-22
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Code:</div><div class="ubbcode-body ubbcode-pre" ><pre>
Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 240, Sierra HPBT LR MatchK 9245
Useable Case Capaci: 54.528 grain H2O = 3.540 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.300 inch = 83.82 mm
Barrel Length : 25.0 inch = 635.0 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-22

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.877% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-08.8 102 52.01 2389 3040 50610 8745 98.5 1.453
-07.9 103 52.51 2412 3100 52259 8807 98.8 1.432 ! Near Maximum !
-07.0 104 53.01 2435 3160 53967 8866 99.0 1.412 ! Near Maximum !
-06.1 105 53.51 2459 3221 55738 8922 99.2 1.393 ! Near Maximum !
-05.3 106 54.01 2482 3282 57575 8974 99.4 1.373 ! Near Maximum !
-04.4 107 54.51 2505 3344 59481 9023 99.5 1.354 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-03.5 108 55.01 2528 3406 61459 9068 99.6 1.335 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-02.6 109 55.51 2551 3469 63513 9110 99.8 1.316 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-01.8 110 56.01 2575 3532 65645 9148 99.9 1.298 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.9 111 56.51 2598 3596 67862 9181 99.9 1.280 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 112 57.01 2621 3660 70166 9211 100.0 1.262 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.9 113 57.51 2644 3724 72559 9237 100.0 1.245 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.8 114 58.01 2666 3789 75038 9259 100.0 1.228 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.6 115 58.51 2689 3854 77609 9280 100.0 1.211 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.5 116 59.01 2712 3920 80282 9299 100.0 1.194 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.4 117 59.51 2735 3986 83062 9318 100.0 1.178 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 112 57.01 2721 3946 85983 8773 100.0 1.172 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 112 57.01 2469 3248 55771 9353 96.6 1.384 ! Near Maximum !</pre></div></div>

RL-25
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Code:</div><div class="ubbcode-body ubbcode-pre" ><pre>
Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 240, Sierra HPBT LR MatchK 9245
Useable Case Capaci: 54.528 grain H2O = 3.540 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.300 inch = 83.82 mm
Barrel Length : 25.0 inch = 635.0 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-25

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.877% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-08.8 104 52.01 2316 2859 44049 8493 99.7 1.532
-07.9 105 52.51 2339 2916 45440 8538 99.8 1.510
-07.0 106 53.01 2362 2973 46885 8579 99.9 1.489
-06.1 107 53.51 2385 3031 48379 8615 100.0 1.468
-05.3 108 54.01 2407 3089 49928 8647 100.0 1.447
-04.4 109 54.51 2430 3147 51535 8675 100.0 1.427 ! Near Maximum !
-03.5 110 55.01 2452 3205 53200 8701 100.0 1.407 ! Near Maximum !
-02.6 111 55.51 2475 3264 54927 8727 100.0 1.387 ! Near Maximum !
-01.8 112 56.01 2497 3323 56718 8752 100.0 1.368 ! Near Maximum !
-00.9 113 56.51 2519 3383 58581 8776 100.0 1.348 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 114 57.01 2542 3443 60513 8800 100.0 1.330 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.9 115 57.51 2564 3503 62522 8823 100.0 1.311 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.8 116 58.01 2586 3563 64610 8845 100.0 1.293 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.6 117 58.51 2608 3624 66779 8866 100.0 1.275 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.5 118 59.01 2630 3686 69037 8887 100.0 1.257 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.4 119 59.51 2652 3747 71384 8906 100.0 1.240 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 114 57.01 2641 3716 74706 8381 100.0 1.230 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 114 57.01 2386 3034 48524 9181 98.3 1.463</pre></div></div>
 
#23
Re: **Update 9-16-09**30-06 with RL-25

OMT,

Did you happen to play w/ RE-22 and the 240's? I'm just wondering with the 240 if there is an advantage over RE-22 as I've not played with that combo myself.

Cheers,

Doc
 
#25
Re: **Update 9-16-09**30-06 with RL-25

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I haven't used 22 yet. MontanaMarine has and he got 2610 with 55.5 grains with a 26" barrel 1-10 twist. </div></div>

His rifle is a 22.5" barrel, mine is a 26"

The 59.5gr load in my rifle runs about 150 fps faster than that data and it is about a 103% load in R-P brass. That's speaking for Rl-22

Thanks for that print out, that's handy.
 
#27
Re: **Update 9-16-09**30-06 with RL-25

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The 59.5gr load in my rifle runs about 150 fps faster than that data and it is about a 103% load in R-P brass. That's speaking for Rl-22

Thanks for that print out, that's handy. </div></div>

You are talking about the 240smk right?
 
#28
Re: **Update 9-16-09**30-06 with RL-25

I really thought you would have run out of case before you could reach sammi pressure levels with RL 25. I guess I learn something new everyday. With an 06 AI and 208s I am running a compressed load of vv560 with great results, but I am seating them fairly deep to fit the magazine. I am using another bullet now but the 208s were pretty sweet in the 06 AI.
 
#29
Re: **Update 9-16-09**30-06 with RL-25

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really thought you would have run out of case before you could reach sammi pressure levels with RL 25. I guess I learn something new everyday. With an 06 AI and 208s I am running a compressed load of vv560 with great results, but I am seating them fairly deep to fit the magazine. I am using another bullet now but the 208s were pretty sweet in the 06 AI. </div></div>

I'm assuming you mean N560. It looks promising, I may have to try to pick some up. It looks like it may be a bit better then RL22 for the 240's but maybe not as good as the RL25. Definitely lower pressure then both. Thanks.
 
#30
Re: **Update 9-16-09**30-06 with RL-25

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are talking about the 240smk right? </div></div>

Nope, 208's. I haven't shot any 240's yet. Maybe someday I'll get around to it.

I didn't know MontanaMarine's barrel was 26" when he was testing those loads, I thought it was still 22.5, my mistake.
 
#31
Re: *Update 9-18-09* 30-06 with RL-25

Kind of a tough day today. Yesterday I loaded up 25 rounds of 240smk's and 25 rounds of the 208's.

It was hot today (92 degrees in the shade). I've come to the conclusion that RL25 is VERY temp sensitive! When I got there it was about 10am and the bullets had been in my air conditioned car for an hour.

I shot the 240's first. All were loaded at 3.30 OAL. Maybe you can tell when the ammo and gun got hot.

57gr - 5 rounds
2538
2532
2525
2517
2517

57.5 - 5 rounds
2537
2534
2527
2538
2535

58 - 5 rounds
2553
2554
2571
2572
2577

58.5 - 5 rounds
2570
2571 (range went cold for 15-20 minutes)
2553
2576
2573

59 - 5 rounds (it was her that I decided wait longer in between shots and strings)
2592
2594
2590
2587
2607

The two best groups were the 58 gr (5 rounds = .359) and the 59 gr (5 rounds = .752 w/ .261 of vertical. I pushed two to the left on this one. Two in one cluster and 3 in a little cloverleaf, the 3 measured .209) I blame improper trigger squeeze on the two to the left.

None of these gave me ANY pressure signs.

On to the 208's 64.1, 64.2, 64.3, 64.4 loaded at 3.45 OAL and 64.0 loaded at 3.48 OAL.

64.1 - 5 rounds
2908 - HEAVY bolt lift, jacked up brass
2844
2899
2896
2844

After the first round, I figured something was up. I decided to shoot the straight 64's which I loaded a bit longer at 3.48 OAL. I figured they might be a bit safer as QL said the pressure would be lower.

64.0 @ 3.48 OAL - 5 rounds
2842
2867
2852
2858
2868

Then I let the gun cool for a while and ate lunch.

I came back to it and decided to push me luck a bit. I shot the other rounds in the 64.1 string with no serious pressure signs and then proceeded on to the 64.2 string.

64.2 - 5 rounds
2864
2877
2869
2879
2907

The next 2900+ spooked me. It wasn't as bad as the first one but I figured I should take the rest back and pull them.

The RL25 seems to work well for the 240's getting bitchin' groups and velocity between 2550 and 2600.

Has anyone experienced this with their RL22?

My question is: Does anyone know if a less temp sensitive powder comparable to RL25 or RL22? Any of the Hodgdon powders?
 
#34
Re: *Update 9-18-09* 30-06 with RL-25

I bet you can fit as many grains of Retumbo as 4831. They are both very similar in size. I'll check tonight. I don't think Retumbo would be that great...that being said, I use it a lot in my .243. It is supposedly designed for "overbore" cartridges, but I not sure if that is definable or not. Retumbo is very slow, maybe more so than RL25.

When I've tried H1000, Retumbo, and RL25, H1000 gave the slowest speeds, but the lowest es/sd. RL25 and Retumbo were closer for speeds. The nod going to the "extreme" powders because the RL25 would not take a redline load at 80*F that it would at 70*F. It seems to me that it may be tough to get enough RL25 or Retumbo in an '06 case and top it off with a 240 smk and find any pressure signs.
 
#36
Re: **Update 9-16-09**30-06 with RL-25

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are talking about the 240smk right? </div></div>

Nope, 208's. I haven't shot any 240's yet. Maybe someday I'll get around to it.

I didn't know MontanaMarine's barrel was 26" when he was testing those loads, I thought it was still 22.5, my mistake. </div></div>

Yes it was about 26.4" to be precise. I cut it to 22.5" a couple years ago when I had the Thruster installed.
 
#38
Re: **Update 9-16-09**30-06 with RL-25

I've never played with RL25.

I saw distinct pressure signs with RL22 under moly'd 208s at 64.0 gr.

Here's my notes from that test:

30-06
22.5", 1/10 twist Douglas bbl
Hornady 208gr AMax, moly'd
Brass: Norma
OAL: 3.46" (3.47" OAL kisses lands, 15Feb08)
CCI-200 primer
Reloader-22
60 gr - 2660 fps - 57K psi
61 gr - 2710 fps - 62K psi
62 gr - 2765 fps - 66K psi
63 gr - 2800 fps - 70K psi, flattening primer
64 gr - 2850 fps - 74K psi, flattening primer, brass flow in ejector, .002" web expansion
 
#39
Re: **Update 9-16-09**30-06 with RL-25

Yes, I think I will keep on with the 240's and the RL25. I don't think I can get enough in the case to get in too much trouble.

I'm right there with the 58-59 grains so I'll keep working with those.

I might try some 4831SC and some 4350 with the 208's. I will likely sacrifice some velocity but shouldn't be as temp sensitive.
 
#41
Re: **Update 9-16-09**30-06 with RL-25

I'm likely going to wait until next week to go out again. It's supposed to be in the 90's all week at the range.

I've got some Ramshot Magnum coming to use with the 208's. I'll start a separate thread for 208's over Ramshot Mag.

I'm going to keep working with the 240's and the RL25 to see what they look like at longer range. It was weird that the 208's had pressure signs and the 240's didn't but it could be just that I fired the 240's first.

My rifle seems to like the 240's better then the 208's. I ordered some 220 smks to see if it likes those as well. I think I will stick with the 240's for a while at least.

JBM shows 9.8 mils to 1k (supersonic to 1400) for the 240 @ 2550 and 9.4 mils to 1k (supersonic to 1500) @ 2600.
 
#43
Re: **Update 9-16-09**30-06 with RL-25

Here are some pics of my rifle and what I've got heading to the range this week.

208's (x20) over Ramshot Magnum (66, 66.5, 67, 67.5) @ 3.47 OAL
240's (x20) over Ramshot Magnum (58.5, 59, 59.5, 60) @ 3.30 OAL
240's (x30) over RL25 (58, 58.5, 59) gonna shoot these at 200 @ 3.30 OAL
220's (x20) over Ramshot Magnum (62.5, 63, 63.5, 64) @ 3.36 OAL
220's (x20) over RL25 (60, 60.5, 61, 61.5) @ 3.36 OAL

This will give me a good comparison of the powders

cimg1553.jpg


cimg1554m.jpg


cimg1560.jpg


cimg1550z.jpg
 
#45
Re: *Update 9-30-09* 30-06 with RL-25

Back from the range. Long day today. I continued to test the RL25 and tried some Ramshot Magnum as well.

Temperature started at a cool 65.5 and moved up to almost 80 by the time I left.

First the 240's
I loaded 10 rounds each of 58, 58.5, and 59. Last time the 58 and the 59 both shot better then the 58.5 and I thought the 58.5 could have been a fluke so I tried them again with the same result. Both the 58 and the 59 were about .5 MOA and the 58.5 was 1 MOA or more. Not sure where to go from here. I don't have pressure signs but don't know how much higher I should go.

I fired 5 rounds in the morning when I got there with a max velocity of 2550 and later I fired another 5 with a max velocity of 2664 which I can only assume is heat.

I will likely try 59.1, 59.2, and 59.3 but that's it.

Got my hands on a box of 220 smks.

60 grains
2625
2617
2629
2649
2714

60.5
Error
Error
2690
2687
2682

61
2706
2697
2681
2696
2709

61.5 (.468 group)
2718
2719
2726
2777
2744

My rifle seems to like the SMK's better then the 208 Amax's as they shot better then the Amax's I shot today. I shot the Amax's with the Ramshot Magnum which I will post about as soon as my wife finishes with me.
cool.gif
 
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