Rifle Scopes Find me a Unicorn

[drewdude]

Recommend to me a scope that has ALL of the following attributes:

- Sub $1000 USD (msrp, I live in Canada and we don’t get that many sales here)
- good eye relief (I hate there being a small sweetspot)
- good parallax and generous depth of field (hate having a scope that is sensitive to parallax adjustment and focus)
- 4-16x magnification (it can be 3-18, 4-20 whatever as long as I get 4-16 in there)
- FFP
- MIL reticle/MIL turrets
- Illumination
- LOCKABLE or capped turrets
- tough and RELIABLE

Im willing to compromise on:
- glass quality (as long as its long lasting and letting in a fair amount of light and good clarity I’m ok)
- amount of available adjustment (I don’t need that much, I will likely never shoot beyond 700 yards with it)
- weight (I don’t care if it’s heavier or lighter)
- warranty (willing to take a hit on warranty if the product is known to not really need one)

most likely going on a Bergara HMR Pro 22-250.

 

[Just Macca]

Bushnell LRHS 4.5-18x44

 

[A-Rob]

The Bushnell above has an excellent rep but I haven't played with one. I have a gen 1 Tango6 3-18. You can find them used but like new for $600-800. It has locking turrets, mil/mil, FFP, it's a reliable LOW optic, illumination, etc. I haven't used it in a while but I don't recall depth of field or eye relief being an issue. I sent it to Sig to get a tiny bit of parallax knob lash adjusted out but it wasn't a reliability issue. I'll check those two things when I get it back.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Bushnell Forge 3-18 would be my pick. The only thing it's missing is the illumination. They do have an illuminated 4.5-27x, but I don't think it's available in Canada.

 

[Rerun7]

Bushnell LRHS 4.5-18x44

This... Or the LRTS.

Tons of threads on it here. Search and enjoy the reading.

 

[RancherJD]

I worked through the same set of wants for a long time. I ended up with a NF SHV for about $1,100 from Cameraland. They are in NY and if supporters of this forum. I highly recommend both the scope and Cameraland.

 

[drewdude]

I worked through the same set of wants for a long time. I ended up with a NF SHV for about $1,100 from Cameraland. They are in NY and if supporters of this forum. I highly recommend both the scope and Cameraland.

the price is beyond my budget, the price is 1750+ tax in Canada (basically $2000 Canadian)

 

[drewdude]

I see there are a lot of discounts on Bushnell elite tactical these days online In the states, maybe there will be a sale one of these days soon in Canada.

Unfortunate that I can’t get them shipped across the border from the states.

This... Or the LRTS.

Tons of threads on it here. Search and enjoy the reading.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

I see there are a lot of discounts on Bushnell elite tactical these days online In the states, maybe there will be a sale one of these days soon in Canada.

Unfortunate that I can’t get them shipped across the border from the states.

The minimum advertised price on the Bushnell ET line just got dropped, so you might be able to find a DMR2 for just a touch over your budget.

 

[drewdude]

Thank you for your input, it’s just I hear the reticle is very hard to see, like any FFP, when at the lower magnifications... I feel like the illumination would give me hope there. Just in case I got a shot at a coyote inside 100 yards, I’d like to use the reticle south of 10x.

Bushnell Forge 3-18 would be my pick. The only thing it's missing is the illumination. They do have an illuminated 4.5-27x, but I don't think it's available in Canada.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Thank you for your input, it’s just I hear the reticle is very hard to see, like any FFP, when at the lower magnifications... I feel like the illumination would give me hope there. Just in case I got a shot at a coyote inside 100 yards, I’d like to use the reticle south of 10x.

I never had issues running the 18 down at low magnification (8-10) when I had it on my 22.

 

[drewdude]

Thank you!
I had a quick look, and it’s hard to find one online in Canada.

The Bushnell above has an excellent rep but I haven't played with one. I have a gen 1 Tango6 3-18. You can find them used but like new for $600-800. It has locking turrets, mil/mil, FFP, it's a reliable LOW optic, illumination, etc. I haven't used it in a while but I don't recall depth of field or eye relief being an issue. I sent it to Sig to get a tiny bit of parallax knob lash adjusted out but it wasn't a reliability issue. I'll check those two things when I get it back.

 

[drewdude]

I never had issues running the 18 down at low magnification (8-10) when I had it on my 22.

Between 6X & 8x I understand that it would be hard to see hash marks but I’d just want to see crosshairs, and how is the depth of field and eye relief? Is there plenty of each?

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Between 6X & 8x I understand that it would be hard to see hash marks but I’d just want to see crosshairs, and how is the depth of field and eye relief? Is there plenty of each?

I never noticed any issues with either one, but I wasn't going out of my way to look for them, either. I used the 3-18 for several NRL22 matches and a lot of rimfire training time before I swapped to the Match Pro on my 22.

 

[Glassaholic]

I would also recommend the Bushy LRHSi/LRTSi 4.5-18x44, I know it's slightly above your 4x request but does have a pretty generous FOV. Not sure how the price would translate but call up Tract and ask Jon about the Toric 4-20x50. I found the Toric to be every bit as good optically as the LRHS/LRTS series from Bushnell which is impressive for its price. I highly recommend the Toric, great company and great optic, if you call Jon and ask about sales, they are usually discounting them around the holidays... Veterans Day and Black Friday/Thanksgiving coming up is probably a safe bet they'll have some great deals.

You can read my review from last year - http://opticsthoughts.com/?p=2354

 

[drewdude]

Thank you for that, great review btw, seemed honest. As far as the eyebox goes and the depth of field, I hate having to hunt for eye relief, I used my uncles hunting rifle the other day and it’s a Zeiss Terra Ed 4-12.... it had a terrible eyebox. I also dislike having to play around with parallax and focus trying to get an optimal depth of field... you mention for a short scope it’s great... but is it really great for a long scope too? I hear the Nikon fx1000 has a great eyebox, I just don’t like that the turrets don’t lock. The tract seems to tick off everything I’m primarily looking for though... well done

 

[Glassaholic]

Part of the problem drew is that great eyebox typically comes at great price. The Toric impressed me for it's eyebox at its price point, but it's not Schmidt, ZP5 or TT good. Another to consider might be the Steiner P4Xi 4-16x56, but I've never seen one so cannot say from personal experience. If you call Toric and talk to Jon, I bet he'd be willing to ship to you and offer a money back guarantee of sorts if you're not happy with it.

 

[Campt413]

I haven't used any other 3-18 ish scopes other than the 4-14 f1 nightforce shv and the vortex gen ii razor 3-18, but both of those were pretty good.

I can't compare them to the bushnell, but I wouldnt hesitate to buy them again.

The luepold vx-5hd might also be a good option

 

[tansinator]

Meopta Optika 3-18

 

[drewdude]

R

I haven't used any other 3-18 ish scopes other than the 4-14 f1 nightforce shv and the vortex gen ii razor 3-18, but both of those were pretty good.

I can't compare them to the bushnell, but I wouldnt hesitate to buy them again.

The luepold vx-5hd might also be a good option

Thank you, but I’d

Part of the problem drew is that great eyebox typically comes at great price. The Toric impressed me for it's eyebox at its price point, but it's not Schmidt, ZP5 or TT good. Another to consider might be the Steiner P4Xi 4-16x56, but I've never seen one so cannot say from personal experience. If you call Toric and talk to Jon, I bet he'd be willing to ship to you and offer a money back guarantee of sorts if you're not happy with it.

Makes sense, but how much eye relief would we be talking about. Would I have a half inch of an eye box or Closer to an inch? And how is the parallax and depth of field? Is it finicky or pretty good?

I’m asking the question because it appears to be checking all the boxes, seems to be exactly what I’m looking for. You really got my attention with this one... really did

 

[Rerun7]

There is an LRHSi in the PX right now for $775.

And go...

 

[D1gger]

Brownells MPO? the 3-18 is on backorder. Not sure if they are in the wild yet

 

[Alabusa]

Here ya go...

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...x44-mil-mil-illuminated.6958726/#post-8036596

 

[patriot07]

Your perception of the forgiveness of the eyebox has MUCH, MUCH more to do with whether the rifle is set up properly than how forgiving the eyebox actually is. I would spend less time chasing an optic with a forgiving eyebox than I would trying to buy a stock pack or a stock with an adjustable cheek and set it up so that when you shoulder the rifle, your eye just falls perfectly in the right spot. Then you'll forget that eyebox was ever a concern.

I'd get the Bushnell

 

[Glassaholic]

Makes sense, but how much eye relief would we be talking about. Would I have a half inch of an eye box or Closer to an inch? And how is the parallax and depth of field? Is it finicky or pretty good?

I’m asking the question because it appears to be checking all the boxes, seems to be exactly what I’m looking for. You really got my attention with this one... really did

Don't confuse eyebox with eye relief, these are two different functions of the optical design. Eyebox is the ease of which you can obtain a good sight picture, the image below is an example of what I mean by obtaining a "good" sight picture. I find some scopes shadow much quicker than others, and while I agree with patriot07 above with regard to getting the scope setup properly to begin with should be priority number one, if you do find yourself in situations where you cannot always get the proper cheek weld, the more forgiving eyebox scope will definitely help in those situations.

 

[fdkay]

Sightmark pinnacle 3-18

 

[drewdude]

Don't confuse eyebox with eye relief, these are two different functions of the optical design. Eyebox is the ease of which you can obtain a good sight picture, the image below is an example of what I mean by obtaining a "good" sight picture. I find some scopes shadow much quicker than others, and while I agree with patriot07 above with regard to getting the scope setup properly to begin with should be priority number one, if you do find yourself in situations where you cannot always get the proper cheek weld, the more forgiving eyebox scope will definitely help in those situations.

View attachment 7173220

yes I understand, I’m just wondering how forgiving the tract is compared to say the Nikon fx1000/x1000 4-16, the viper pst gen 2 3-15 FFP/SFP. You seemed to have a little concern in your review about that due to the fact it is compact.

 

[Glassaholic]

yes I understand, I’m just wondering how forgiving the tract is compared to say the Nikon fx1000/x1000 4-16, the viper pst gen 2 3-15 FFP/SFP. You seemed to have a little concern in your review about that due to the fact it is compact.

I have no experience with the Nikon (and little interest) but memory says the Tract 4-20 was comparable to the PST II 3-15 however better than the 5-25. There are many factors that come into play with eyebox, I would be very nervous to go off of "recommendations" even from myself, what you need to do is be able to get behind these scopes with proper mounting yourself and I realize you're in a situation to where that is difficult, so my recommendation is make sure which ever scope you choose you have the option to return it.

 

[drewdude]

Thank you, that would be very difficult with the tract I feel. If I went that way Id have to complete import/export paperwork.

 

[Glassaholic]

Thank you, that would be very difficult with the tract I feel. If I went that way Id have to complete import/export paperwork.

I feared that might be a limitation. Try and get your hands on an LRTSi (or better yet the LRHSi if you can find it), I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how good this scope is.

 

[drewdude]

Yea, I will have to do a little research on it. From my initial research, it’s hard to find one of these in Canada right now. But I will do more research when I have better internet.

 

[spife7980]

The LRTSi with a g3 reticle or LRHSi with its g2h reticle are phenomenal scopes for the price, I dont think Ill ever sell mine. Im actually moving my lrtsi over to my new "coyote gun", the illumination is good to have o course being its front focal but it also by default has a thicker reticle than they have in their bigger higher level higher magnification models.
There arent any people who would say its a bad scope and most who do are either spoiled even higher dollar gear or they had rare lemon which is not the norm.

Let me see if I can find my example from a few months back of the G3 reticles on my phone real quick. At 18x and not 4.5x so low end appearance isnt represented but its what I got and what I can share.

500kyl
LRTSi

Dmr2pro

 

[fdkay]

The LRTSi with a g3 reticle or LRHSi with its g2h reticle are phenomenal scopes for the price, I dont think Ill ever sell mine. Im actually moving my lrtsi over to my new "coyote gun", the illumination is good to have o course being its front focal but it also by default has a thicker reticle than they have in their bigger higher level higher magnification models.
There arent any people who would say its a bad scope and most who do are either spoiled even higher dollar gear or they had rare lemon which is not the norm.

Let me see if I can find my example from a few months back on my phone real quick. At 18x and not 4.5x so low end appearance isnt represented but its what I got and what I can share.

LRTSi
View attachment 7173347

Dmr2pro
View attachment 7173348

I have a 4.5-18 LRTSi.
it is a dandy scope, even with the backwards parallax markings, which I never look at anyway. Would have never realized it, until someone here mentioned it.

 

[spife7980]

I have a 4.5-18 LRTSi.
it is a dandy scope, even with the backwards parallax markings, which I never look at anyway. Would have never realized it, until someone here mentioned it.

Mine had that as well but when I had some down time and was working on other rifles load development and not shooting the lrtsi for a bit I sent it in and they sent me a new scope with the proper parallax. They actually didnt have one in stock that day so they sent me a dmr2 to be accommodating as they could as quickly as they could but I asked for an lrtsi and had had the new lrtsi back to me after a weeks wait or so.

 

[Glassaholic]

Here was my LRHSi 4.5-18x44 at 18x and also at 4.5x, I agree with Nacho (Spife) above as well. The LRTS/LRHS is a LOW design and most of their designs end up being top performers in their class. Here's some pics of the reticles from my LRHSi with G2H reticle which I regret selling!

 

[kashaV]

I like the SWFA. Very durable and tracks great.

SWFA 3-15x42 SS 30mm Riflescope

SWFA 3-15x42 SS 30mm Riflescope Details SKU: SS315X42MQ Finish: Matte Reticle: MIL-Quad Tube Diameter (mm): 30 Elevation Knob: Exposed Target (.1 MIL) Windage Knob: Exposed Target (.1 MIL) Parallax Setting: Side Focus Focal Plane: First

www.swfa.com

 

[drewdude]

Thank you guys for the pictures! Got to do a little more research on the LRHSi and it seems like exactly what I’m looking for except after extensive searching I cannot find any available in Canada below 2000 CAD (not including 15% sales tax). That’s a bit steep for me. I did notice in my research a delta optics titanium 3-24x56 MRAD but SFP with capped turrets and decent illuminated reticle. I would consider SFP in a scope like that, I could work target at 24x, game at 12x and 3x to make the measurements manageable. I just haven’t heard you guys mention it... I could get it for 1000 usd price. The only thing I’m not to keen on about it is that it is not really well spoke about on here and it only has a 10 year warranty.

 

[drewdude]

Seem like a nice scope for the money, thank you, just not really what I’m looking for. Appreciate your info though!

I like the SWFA. Very durable and tracks great.

SWFA 3-15x42 SS 30mm Riflescope

SWFA 3-15x42 SS 30mm Riflescope Details SKU: SS315X42MQ Finish: Matte Reticle: MIL-Quad Tube Diameter (mm): 30 Elevation Knob: Exposed Target (.1 MIL) Windage Knob: Exposed Target (.1 MIL) Parallax Setting: Side Focus Focal Plane: First

www.swfa.com

 

[drewdude]

I’d love to find a used LRHSi 4.5-18 in Canada... but our used market isn’t quite as stellar as it is in the states. And it’s just so hard to buy used and import to Canada... hardly worth it.

 

[beetroot]

Whats the issue with having scopes shipped to Canada?
There are multiple retailers who will ship internationally, to much further and less friendly places than Canada.

You will likely be hit with import tax, but will still be better off.

 

[patriot07]

Personally I've never been that big on the Bushnell scopes anyway. I know you said glass clarity wasn't important, but they always seemed like some of the worst glass in the price range to my eyes. I'm nearly alone in this opinion, so I think it's more personal preference. But I don't think it compares well to anything in the price range except the XTR II, which I always thought had the worst glass in the price range (although still serviceable).

So that brings me to my recommendation - see if you can find a used XTR II. They're typically pretty affordable used, and I've seen some decent discounts on new ones as well. I think the 3-15 or 4-20 probably checks most of your boxes (no locking turrets is the only one that sticks out right now). But if you're prioritizing features and reliability over glass quality, then it's a really nice option for the money for sure.

 

[86alaskan]

SWFA 5-20 HD. right in your wheel house for specs and a rock solid repeatable scope. The only low point would be the illumination, but it does have it. they can be had for around $1000.

 

[Glassaholic]

I agree with Patriot above, the XTR II 4-20x50 is a great scope for the money (but steer clear of the 5-25 and the 3-15 as they've had some issues). Also, the Steiner P4Xi 4-16x56 is also getting great reviews for being under $1k. Doug at Cameralandny has a crazy good deal that is probably cheaper to have him ship to you even if you do have to pay customs, taxes, etc. than if you bought directly from a dealer in Canada. You should be able to find the XTR II's in Canada fairly easily I would think.

 

[drewdude]

yes, the XTR 2’s are easy to find in Canada, and that sounds like a good deal on the Steiner... did Steiner ever fix that known parallax issue with that scope I wonder...?

also, I notice tract as a military discount... I’d get 15% off. You really caught my attention with that one... just seems like a new company, and don’t know if they will be around in the future to standby their warranty.

I agree with Patriot above, the XTR II 4-20x50 is a great scope for the money (but steer clear of the 5-25 and the 3-15 as they've had some issues). Also, the Steiner P4Xi 4-16x56 is also getting great reviews for being under $1k. Doug at Cameralandny has a crazy good deal that is probably cheaper to have him ship to you even if you do have to pay customs, taxes, etc. than if you bought directly from a dealer in Canada. You should be able to find the XTR II's in Canada fairly easily I would think.

 

[drewdude]

I agree with Patriot above, the XTR II 4-20x50 is a great scope for the money (but steer clear of the 5-25 and the 3-15 as they've had some issues). Also, the Steiner P4Xi 4-16x56 is also getting great reviews for being under $1k. Doug at Cameralandny has a crazy good deal that is probably cheaper to have him ship to you even if you do have to pay customs, taxes, etc. than if you bought directly from a dealer in Canada. You should be able to find the XTR II's in Canada fairly easily I would think.

Talked with Doug, he’s not allowed to export to Canada.

 

[drewdude]

So, I’ve done some more digging and worked around a couple things, and I’d be willing to consider the NightForce SHV 4-14x56 or 5-20x56 with illuminated centre... I’d be willing to compromise on the focal plane especially with the 5-20 because the math would be easy, and I’d be willing to switch over to the MOA reticle. It’s $500 cheaper than the bushnells and can be had on this side of the border without any important export. I don’t like the exposed turrets on the XTR 2 and that’s more important to me than the FFP and Mil reticle. Another scope that I seen that would only make me sacrifice FFP is the delta titanium 3-24x56 ED SFP - CCT .1Mil - MR.P300. Hard to find reviews and comments on the delta though.