Gunsmithing Firing Pin drops when bolt is run

TM1107

Private
Minuteman
Apr 17, 2019
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5
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Lutz, FL
Hey guys, I installed a triggertech primary on my R700 6.5CM about a month ago. I’ve only dry fired it with the new trigger so far (probably 100 dry fires) and up until today no issues. However, today I noticed that out of about 50 dry fires the firing would drop when the bolt was closed about 10 times. Any suggestions?
 
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Are you slamming the bolt forward really hard or just closing it normal? I’ve noticed every remy I’ve ever had if I slam and I mean slam the bolt forwards the firing pin will run forward
 
Dry firing is not very good for the gun .

What....

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If the trigger is properly designed and has not been "gunsmit'd" by someone, then trigger weight (and by that I simply mean the amount of force used by your finger to make it go "click") has no effect on slam fires.

It's sear engagement. The truth in this lies with a BR weighted jewel trigger. Properly setup you can bounce that thing off the floor and it won't go bang. The mass of the trigger shoe (part your finger touches) below the pin (pivot point) is intentionally designed to be less than what rides above the pin. This way the slam/bump, whatever doesn't encourage the shoe to rotate rearward, causing the unsafe fire condition.

That's a fundamental thing in trigger design, release levers for floorplates, etc.

Overlap on the transfer bar/sear surface is where slam fires occur. The sudden impact between the two from rapid bolt manipulation, impact, etc. . . causes the two surfaces to bounce off one another. -About the same as when you nail a sill plate to a stud and whack it one last time only to discover that the joint separated when it should have snugged up tight.

The other thing that will cause this is a receiver that has some fundamental issues:

1. Excessive thread slop between shroud and bolt
2. Worn cocking piece
3. Worn transfer bar (more of a trigger issue and very rare, typically a heat treat issue where the surface erodes over time due to being too soft)
4. Grossly excessive clearance between the rear bridge ID on the receiver and the OD of the back half of the bolt body.
5. Bent firing pin
6. Excessive clearance between OD of firing pin and ID of cocking piece where the two assemble (extremely rare, but it has happened)

All of these create a condition where the cocking piece is being allowed to run over the transfer bar of the trigger. Typically, one expects to see around .05" of overlap between those two surfaces.


If this were a gun I was working on and it slam fired, the first thing I would do is increase the sear overlap. On a Jewel trigger its the forward most screw. Rotate it counterclockwise a 1/4 turn and test again. That will resolve 99/100 guns. If it doesn't, then start running through the list before tearing into the trigger to "fix on it".

Hope this helps.

C.
 
Dry firing hundreds of times a week over a long period like the OP is doing is NOT good for the gun it has already worn the sear requiring readjustment of the trigger and it can eventually weaken the firing pin spring and possibly fatigue the firing pin . Dry firing a few times after cleaning and assembly is nothing but hammering away hundreds of times is not good for it . Your just wearing the action out .
 
Dry firing hundreds of times a week over a long period like the OP is doing is NOT good for the gun it has already worn the sear requiring readjustment of the trigger and it can eventually weaken the firing pin spring and possibly fatigue the firing pin . Dry firing a few times after cleaning and assembly is nothing but hammering away hundreds of times is not good for it . Your just wearing the action out .


I would love to see some actual test data showing where the duty cycle of the firearm is hamstrung by dry firing.

I look at it like this:

An internal combustion engine has systems that operate in a similar fashion. First that comes to mind is the rocker arm interacting with the pushrod and the tip of the valve stem.

Next, the cam on a diaphragm actuated fuel pump.

Rotors on distributors for older engines using points. (maybe not the best example cause points suck ass)

Tappets for shim under bucket type heads commonly used on 15K+rpm sport bike engines.

Now, figure the duty cycle on any of these. If we take the average speed of say 60mph over the course of the engines life of 100,000 miles and we do this at 2500rpm for an average. That pencils out to roughly 125 million duty cycles for valve train type components. (remember, they run at half of crank rpm)

Unless companies are just completely goat screwing their products by using shitty material selection or heat treatment, it stands to reason based on that example that they should last and last for quite a long time.

Anyone reading this who is a Marine will tell you the hours spent around a snap in barrel circle jerking a trigger during grass week. Those guns have millions of cycles on the triggers and they've been in service for a very long time. I spent 3 of my 6 years in the Corps as a PMI and ran those same drills for Marines in my BN who needed to do the annual recert. It was a quarter century ago, but I don't recall ever having a gun go down due to the trigger consuming itself.

Coil springs used for striker assemblies do weaken over time. I've seen that, but everything else seems to tolerate the mileage quite well provided its maintained and cared for.

The pressures being exerted on this stuff isn't all that much compared to a lot of other things.

I think its a canned overstated position held by many. Much like the guys who shoot 3 rounds and then jerk off a cleaning rod for 20 minutes, -then cant sort out why they have poor down range performance.
 
Dry firing hundreds of times a week over a long period like the OP is doing is NOT good for the gun it has already worn the sear requiring readjustment of the trigger and it can eventually weaken the firing pin spring and possibly fatigue the firing pin . Dry firing a few times after cleaning and assembly is nothing but hammering away hundreds of times is not good for it . Your just wearing the action out .


Stupid is, as stupid says,

This is the dumbest thing I have read on the internet today
 
Dry firing is not very good for the gun .
Are you kidding me. This is the problem with forums. People not knowing facts yet still commenting. If you do not know something do not say it. Why do all gun manufactures, anyone else in the industry, trainers and everyone else that actually knows about bolt action rifles say" dry firing is great practice for trigger pull and testing your support for a solid position" with absolutely no damage or wear to the firearm or components.
 
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Dry firing hundreds of times a week over a long period like the OP is doing is NOT good for the gun it has already worn the sear requiring readjustment of the trigger and it can eventually weaken the firing pin spring and possibly fatigue the firing pin . Dry firing a few times after cleaning and assembly is nothing but hammering away hundreds of times is not good for it . Your just wearing the action out .

That's only for rifles with MOA scopes. As long as your scope is MIL you can dry fire it as much as you want.
 
Are you kidding me. This is the problem with forums. People not knowing facts yet still commenting. If you do not know something do not say it. Why do all gun manufactures, anyone else in the industry, trainers and everyone else that actually knows about bolt action rifles say" dry firing is great practice for trigger pull and testing your support for a solid position" with absolutely no damage or wear to the firearm or components.
Because they WANT your gun to wear out as QUICK as possible . Just think for a minute why does the bolt lugs wear and the cocking cam wears because of abrasion and pressure of constant use . Every time your dry fire you have to recock and it's is all wearing away at those mating surfaces . It is good practice no disagreement there but it's bad for the gun when done hundreds of times a day . Many competition shooters are sponsored and get new guns as required they don't care about any wear and some have a separate gun to dry fire with . Snap caps can help save the firing pin but the surafce wear still happens . Just dry firing a few times a day on a gun that is rarely fired would not make much difference but hundreds of times a day , there is no way I would do that to my actions . Would you sit in your car starting and restating the engine hundreds of times a day ?
 
Because they WANT your gun to wear out as QUICK as possible . Just think for a minute why does the bolt lugs wear and the cocking cam wears because of abrasion and pressure of constant use . Every time your dry fire you have to recock and it's is all wearing away at those mating surfaces . It is good practice no disagreement there but it's bad for the gun when done hundreds of times a day . Many competition shooters are sponsored and get new guns as required they don't care about any wear and some have a separate gun to dry fire with . Snap caps can help save the firing pin but the surafce wear still happens . Just dry firing a few times a day on a gun that is rarely fired would not make much difference but hundreds of times a day , there is no way I would do that to my actions . Would you sit in your car starting and restating the engine hundreds of times a day ?


There are meds for this.

Remember, swallow the Viagra, don't suck on it.
 

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I would love to see some actual test data showing where the duty cycle of the firearm is hamstrung by dry firing.

I look at it like this:

An internal combustion engine has systems that operate in a similar fashion. First that comes to mind is the rocker arm interacting with the pushrod and the tip of the valve stem.

Next, the cam on a diaphragm actuated fuel pump.

Rotors on distributors for older engines using points. (maybe not the best example cause points suck ass)

Tappets for shim under bucket type heads commonly used on 15K+rpm sport bike engines.

Now, figure the duty cycle on any of these. If we take the average speed of say 60mph over the course of the engines life of 100,000 miles and we do this at 2500rpm for an average. That pencils out to roughly 125 million duty cycles for valve train type components. (remember, they run at half of crank rpm)

Unless companies are just completely goat screwing their products by using shitty material selection or heat treatment, it stands to reason based on that example that they should last and last for quite a long time.

Anyone reading this who is a Marine will tell you the hours spent around a snap in barrel circle jerking a trigger during grass week. Those guns have millions of cycles on the triggers and they've been in service for a very long time. I spent 3 of my 6 years in the Corps as a PMI and ran those same drills for Marines in my BN who needed to do the annual recert. It was a quarter century ago, but I don't recall ever having a gun go down due to the trigger consuming itself.

Coil springs used for striker assemblies do weaken over time. I've seen that, but everything else seems to tolerate the mileage quite well provided its maintained and cared for.

The pressures being exerted on this stuff isn't all that much compared to a lot of other things.

I think its a canned overstated position held by many. Much like the guys who shoot 3 rounds and then jerk off a cleaning rod for 20 minutes, -then cant sort out why they have poor down range performance.


Probably a combination of shitty material and poor heat treatment, but I personally had a firing pin break on a State Arms 50 BMG while dry firing. Dry fired it MAYBE 5 times - Snap?!!!
That was a late 1990’s model when Klaus (R.I.P.) was starting out.

Had it happen on a 1960’s Winchester shotgun as well - less than 15 years ago.

Have been warned since I was a little kid not to dry fire or the firing pin could break.......? happens ?‍♂️

Never heard of it happening in any “modern “ center fire rifle though.