First Bolt Gun for a Beginner

[Godofallu]

Hey everyone. I'm sure this question has been asked a bunch and I have read through many posts, but because everyone's needs are different and the technology is constantly changing I want to get opinions from experienced people who are willing to offer advice.

I have a backyard range setup that has about 80 yards. No more room for additional distance but there is a free range very close that goes to 300 yards. My best friend's dad just recently bought a lot of land a few hours away and we plan to setup a real range at extreme distance. I do a decent amount of shooting now and my rifle is a cheap home-built AR. I shoot groups a lot and I enjoy competing with buddies and random strangers on the internet for smallest group sizes.

I want to buy/build a gun that can shoot small holes. The smaller the better. I want to be able to get into long range. I plan to shoot primarily paper groups at shorter ranges and steel targets at further ranges. I don't have a set budget but I have a lot of potential money to spend which is offset by my extreme cheapness. I'd say if i'm going over $1500-$2000 or so there better be a good reason. My caliber choice will be 6.5 Creedmoor since I want factory ammo.

Guns I am considering- Tikka T3X CTR or TAC A1, Bergara HMR, Ruger Predator, HOWA 1500 Action + Stock.

I do really enjoy the AR platform and I like the pistol grip. So a chassie seems like a nice option but I have never seen one or held one so no clue how I would know which are good.

I am super open to other guns or ideas since I probably only have heard of the most widly marketed store brands and there might be hidden gems I am missing. Thanks to anyone who is willing to spare some time to get a new shooter headed in the right direction.

EDIT: Just bought an Athlon Ares ETR and a HOWA 1500 26" Bull Barreled Action + Boyds at One Stock. Got rings and a 20MOA rail and ammo and a bipod and a rear bag too. Should have the supplies I need to assemble everything and get shooting. Now i'm researching "bedding". God idk why I didn't just buy a complete gun. Anyways thanks for the advice everyone.

 

[Keith jones79]

I really like the ruger american predator for a new shooter. There are alot of aftermarket products for these rifles. That wont break the bank

 

[Novak77]

I have nothing but great luck with Tikka's. Tons of aftermarket stuff out there for them too.

 

[Godofallu]

I have nothing but great luck with Tikka's. Tons of aftermarket stuff out there for them too.

Do you know if the TAC A1 uses the same barrel/action as the other T3X rifles? I see a lot of hype and love for the A1 but if I could get the same thing in a cheaper package that interests me some too.

 

[CJS-6.5]

The Ruger Predator in a good chassis is ridiculously accurate. Better than all but the most discerning top tier shooters like Rexy baby.

 

[Codiekfx400]

If you built your own ar and want the satisfaction of building a bolt gun a Bighorn Origin would work. Watch X-caliber barrels the next few days for a Savage Pre-Fit sale. Order a barrel nut savage wrench go and no go gauges from northland shooters supply. A krg bravo stock. Timney 510 trigger. Assemble in your garage for about $1700.

 

[CJS-6.5]

If you go X Caliber dot your tees and cross your eyes.

 

[honuswagner]

I built mine on a Accuracy International Chassis, love it, super solid and looks great.

If you're looking to shoot the tightest groups then a benchrest setup is probably going to serve you best. Personally I want something that shoots tight groups, but is also something I can pack out on a hunt without killing myself. I'm never going to beat the benchrest guys at groups, but my weapons are very accurate and fit my particular needs. You just have to consider what your objectives are.

Good luck, lots of good resoures here that should help you get going.

 

[etn1type]

I have a Bergara HMR, a Howa 1500, and A Savage. Frankly, I think all of them are great rifles. I'd say this:

-The HMR is going to be ready to go out of the box (minus scope base, rings, and scope), mine shoots on average .5-.6 MOA, less if I'm having a good day. The HMR was actually my first bolt gun, and I'm glad I bought it.
-The Howa is a good option because you can get a pretty good setup for less money than the Bergara, mine is sitting in a KRG Bravo. The aftermarket support for Howa is growing, but isn't as high for Rem700/Clones and even Savage rifles.
-The Savage is good if you want a very inexpensive but fairly reliable rifle with a good amount of after market support. I have a Savage 10 FCP-K in 308. While they don't offer his exact model anymore, similar ones can be had for the ~$600 and less range.

I think anyone of these would make a great starter rifle. Just remember to not go cheap on the glass and rings.

As others have said, Tikka offers a very good rifle for the money. I've only shot one, and it was pretty fantastic. My Dad had a CTR for a bit, and the action was incredibly smooth, very accurate out of the box, even with the craptastic scope that was mounted to it.

If you're savvy with some tools and don't mind asking questions/scouring forums for answers, the a Remage setup or Bighorn action could be your best bet. Bighorns will be more expensive (the Origin runs $825 and the TL3 runs $1350), but they have such high tolerances that you can buy off the shelf barrels from places like PVA and just thread, torque, and go. My next build is actually going to be based on an Origin. Bighorn also offers the pleasantry of bolt head swaps. So, if you have a 6.5 CM barrel on the Origin, and decide you want to shoot 223 to train, you just have to order the 223 barrel for the Origin, and swap them.

There's so much info out there on different setups, it can make your head spin. I hope this helps.

 

[SonicBurlap]

I have several Bergaras and none of them ever disappointed me. The HMR in both versions as etn2type said is 'ready out of the box' and provides excellent accuracy and value for the money, the savings of which you can invest in quality glass and rings. By the way it has an aluminum chassis bedded in the polymer stock.

 

[CaptNemo]

Since you’re not shooting PRS type competitions the Savage rifles are a more viable option. There’s a lot of
Savage hatred on this board because of issues in classes and competitions. They aren’t as smooth as a Tikka or Bergara, but a 12 FV this weekend should be less than $500 at Cabela’s.
I say this as a Savage owner that just ordered a Tikka CTR in 6.5 CM less than 24 hours ago.
My 12 LRP has been 100% when I’m doing my job correctly, but the Tikka is a significant upgrade.
You could also build a really accurate AR15 upper for less than $1k... there’s that option, but your limited in cartridge choices.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Since you've built your AR already, you should be able to swap out the barrel. This one could be pretty much what you want.

...Or, just buy the complete Upper and use it as a Swapper-Upper. It's an economical solution, and a pretty elegant one, too. This Stag 2-Stage Nickel Boron Trigger is a nice addition.

My preference is to own only as many Lowers as there are shooters in the household, then to customize each lower to suit each individual shooter. Uppers are a different item, and additional ones can be used mix-and-match. I have two Lowers and five Uppers.

I own two of the Stag Model 6, which is the predecessor version of the Stag 15 Varminter. Mine have competed in National LR F T/R comp at 600yd.

Ammunition next; see Hornady for 75gr Match ammunition.

Scope. Rings, I use medium height for this scope (I have three of them) when mounting on a bolt gun rail.

AR mount/ring combination, 30mm, and 20moa elevation wouldn't hurt, either. Brass catcher.


Greg

 

[Novak77]

Do you know if the TAC A1 uses the same barrel/action as the other T3X rifles? I see a lot of hype and love for the A1 but if I could get the same thing in a cheaper package that interests me some too.

Same action yes, same barrels no. They also have a CTR and Varmint in 6.5 which could be a way for you to start out and save some $$$.

 

[aard3]

1.) If you have the $$$, I suggest going ahead and getting exactly what you want the first time... you will save yourself money in the long run. Don't be penny-wise but pound foolish. If you want to shoot small holes, look at what the competition guys are using (cut rifled barrels, lots of 6mm variants, etc.)

For example: I started out with a Remington 700 SPS Tactical and a Vortex PST Gen I, because I didn't want to spend big $$$ on a custom build.
Then had the action true'd,re-barreled, and ordered a manners stock to improve accuracy.
Then I got to look through nice optics and ordered a Razor Gen II.
Then I got to play around with some custom actions, and realized how nice they are compared to a Rem700...so I ordered a custom action and had it barreled.

By the time I was done, I had the rifle of my dreams... but it cost me a lot more to get there.

2.) That said:
- I really like the Begara for the money... I've seen them as low as 800... that leaves you some $$ for a decent optic.
- Ruger RPR is nice, and does have that "AR" type feel, but I can't stand the noise the bolt makes when you run it.
- Tikka's are nice...I like the action. I have one in 30-06, that was sub-moa out of the box.
- Take a look at the MPA Chassis... I really like the vertical grip on it.

 

[Godofallu]

Since you've built your AR already, you should be able to swap out the barrel. This one could be pretty much what you want.

...Or, just buy the complete Upper and use it as a Swapper-Upper. It's an economical solution, and a pretty elegant one, too. This Stag 2-Stage Nickel Boron Trigger is a nice addition.

My preference is to own only as many Lowers as there are shooters in the household, then to customize each lower to suit each individual shooter. Uppers are a different item, and additional ones can be used mix-and-match. I have two Lowers and five Uppers.

I own two of the Stag Model 6, which is the predecessor version of the Stag 15 Varminter. Mine have competed in National LR F T/R comp at 600yd.

Ammunition next; see Hornady for 75gr Match ammunition.

Scope. Rings, I use medium height for this scope (I have three of them) when mounting on a bolt gun rail.

AR mount/ring combination, 30mm, and 20moa elevation wouldn't hurt, either. Brass catcher.


Greg

Well my AR is a 6.5 Grendel and while I am interested in upgrading it I want a bolt gun for my next project. A new type of gun to shoot interests me.

 

[gconnoyer]

1) Bergara
2) Tikka
3) Savage

There's nothing wrong with any of these as a starter rifle. They are all going to be accurate and work well for what you're doing.

The Savage (every single one of mine) has awesome accuracy with factory ammo right out of the box. There is a ton of aftermarket support and you can change barrels easily yourself at home. Most likely, you will want to upgrade the stock but other than that you'll be good to go.

The Tikka is about the same way, other than you can buy them with good factory stock or chassis. The aftermarket is a little more limited than the savage but there is still plenty out there.

The Bergara would be my recommendation because its got a good stock, okay trigger, good barrel, and will be ready to go once you throw a scope on it. The biggest benefit is that its a R700 footprint so there is an unlimited aftermarket, and once you do get sucked further down the rabbit hole, everything you buy as an upgrade for it can be swapped over to a custom gun.


The drawbacks to each, where you are now with what you want....there isnt much honestly.
The savages have ejection/extraction issues but as a plinking/range gun, not really a huge deal to fish some brass out by hand.
Their bottom metal for 10rd mag options, SUCKS. So if you want to upgrade you'll have to buy metal and have it inletted, and even then you still may run into feeding issues.
I had a 10FP in 308 that I used last year for PRS matches and wasted a ton of money trying to make it work and ultimately built a custom gun anyway so I speak from my own stupidity lol

The bergara has a relatively thin barrel, and is pretty light weight so recoil isnt fantastic. And the trigger is a little creepy but you can upgrade that easily. Other than that, not much for drawbacks IMO.

The Tikka, limited aftermarket. Short of that I've never shot one myself or had enough time behind one to comment.

 

[LeftyJason]

1)
The Tikka, limited aftermarket. Short of that I've never shot one myself or had enough time behind one to comment.

ANYTHING compared to the r700, glock, 870, or ar15 have limited aftermarkets.

If you are interrested in Tikkas read post 3273 on this page. https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/tikka-t3-thread.6252615/page-66

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Well my AR is a 6.5 Grendel and while I am interested in upgrading it I want a bolt gun for my next project. A new type of gun to shoot interests me.

No problem, and the options I suggested should be a good guide to that upgrade. Just be sure that whichever options you choose, the bolt face matches the chambering you choose, as the Grendel has limited chambering applications. I think .223 would be excellent for the applications you're suggesting.

I like the Savage bolt guns and suggest starting with the Savage 10T-SR from Cabela's. The Choate Tactical Stock is a good addition; it has excellent ergonomics, and is solid and stable with a full length aluminum bedding block.

The Scope and Rings, I recommend medium height for this scope (I have three of them) when mounting on a bolt gun rail. The Vortex low rings may work for you with this scope, rifle, and base combination; they did for me.

Greg

 

[308pirate]

Howa 1500 action with #6 contour barrel in 6.5 Creedmoor from Brownells and a KRG Bravo stock.

 

[308pirate]

High quality rifles like Howa and Tikka have a limited aftermarket because they have very few weaknesses to correct.

The reverse of that is also true: extensive aftermarket exists because the related products has plenty of room for improvement.

 

[Godofallu]

No problem, and the options I suggested should be a good guide to that upgrade. Just be sure that whichever options you choose, the bolt face matches the chambering you choose, as the Grendel has limited chambering applications. I think .223 would be excellent for the applications you're suggesting.

I like the Savage bolt guns and suggest starting with the Savage 10T-SR from Cabela's. The Choate Tactical Stock is a good addition; it has excellent ergonomics, and is solid and stable with a full length aluminum bedding block.

The Scope and Rings, I recommend medium height for this scope (I have three of them) when mounting on a bolt gun rail. The Vortex low rings may work for you with this scope, rifle, and base combination; they did for me.

Greg

Are match/target bullets for .223 cheaper than 6.5CM? I know with my Grendel the nice bullets all seem to be the same price as the Creedmoor. You would think bigger bullets with more power would be more expensive but for example the Hornady American Gunner ammo my AR loves is the same price in all calibers.

 

[Tunnuh]

Have had Savage, Remington, and Tikka in my collection and kept the CTR. It is the best production grade out of the box rifle I've handled. I've shot the rprand handled bergara. The bergara has a strange feeling when manipulating the bolt IMO.

My suggestion is the Tikka TAC. There's plenty aftermarket options for the Tikka. PVA has a barrel nut, Timney makes a trigger, the CTR mags are getting cheaper.

 

[Alabusa]

I will ba the oddball and tell you, get a rimfire and learn to shoot little holes properly with it and then move up in caliber.
I highly doubt you will do this though.

 

[brianf]

What ever it is make sure you can buy prefit barrels/swap at home for it.

 

[308pirate]

Are match/target bullets for .223 cheaper than 6.5CM? I know with my Grendel the nice bullets all seem to be the same price as the Creedmoor. You would think bigger bullets with more power would be more expensive but for example the Hornady American Gunner ammo my AR loves is the same price in all calibers.

Are you talking about bullets or cartridges?

 

[ReaperMedic]

I got a Bergara B14 HMR. Its been a good gun for a beginner. My friend has the 6.5CM and it also kicks ass. Easy shooting gun.

 

[NateVA]

I will ba the oddball and tell you, get a rimfire and learn to shoot little holes properly with it and then move up in caliber.
I highly doubt you will do this though.

I second this, though I know that I didn't follow that advice so I doubt the OP will either. OP, you have a backyard range that goes to 80 yards. That's plenty of real estate to do all sorts of stuff with a .22lr rifle. Your imagination is the limit with it honestly, everything from tiny groups to practicing positional shooting. Then you have a range that goes to 300 yards too, that's even better. Shooting a .22lr at 300 yards is like shooting a centerfire at 800-1000 yards. It's very cheap to feed as you practice new things and improve too.

Save up a little more money and get a full build from Vudoo if you want to seamlessly transition between rimfire and centerfire with the same ergonomics. If not, maybe get a CZ455 to shoot with.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I handload both 223 and .260 (a 6.5) extensively. I have also done some abbreviated testing of .223 match loads. The costs come out in favor of the .223, both as handloads and loaded ammunition, but different brands and models of ammunition can span a broad range of prices.

I can afford pretty much whatever I want, and tend to not take ammunition prices into as much account as some. Surprisingly, some of the not-so-expensive loads are both accurate and reloadable, so my choices tend to be pretty varied, price wise. A lot of it depends more on the barrel than on the chambering or specific load. When spent cases can be reloaded, the effective price drops considerably. For actualy matches, I tend to load my own with new brass, for most other applications, I will use either factory ammunition or handloads with previously fired brass.

I friend has just finished his 6.5 Grendel AR build, and has yet to do any accuracy/ammunition testing. I have had the opportunity to try the Grendel, and passed on it; mainly because I already have a 6.5, the .260, and I feel it's a lot more capable than the Grendel, especially at the longer ranges.

My basic rule of thumb is to avoid using various chamberings out to their extreme capability. I confidently use the 223 out to 600yd and the .260 out to 1000yd, but each is probably still quite capable at significantly greater distances, especially at my local 4000-4500ft altitude.

I would rate the Grendel as somewhere in between the two's capability. Where I would confidently load the 260 with 147's, I'd feel more cautious using that bullet in the Grendel. I suspect it would under-perform, and be a lot happier with 120-130gr bullets.

Greg

PS At one time I was an avid shooter of 22LR at distances beyond 100yd. It worked great and I loved it, but these days I seldom do it anymore. For me, the .223 has replaced 22LR as my main practice chambering; mainly because I can control the makeup of the 223 better than I can 22LR.

 

[Fig]

I do a decent amount of shooting now and my rifle is a cheap home-built AR. I shoot groups a lot and I enjoy competing with buddies and random strangers on the internet for smallest group sizes.

I am the undefeated champion of smallest groups against random strangers on the internet and I don’t even own a gun.
10shots @ 100 yds

20 shots @ 200 yds

40 shots @ 1000 yds

Beat that!

 

[MtnCreek]

I've got a R700 that I've probably got$3000 or better in that I haven't shot in over a year and a ctr for less than $1000 that I've had about two years that I really like and shoot often. FWIW.

 

[MtnCreek]

I am the undefeated champion of smallest groups against random strangers on the internet and I don’t even own a gun.
10shots @ 100 yds

20 shots @ 200 yds

40 shots @ 1000 yds

Beat that!

Mine are a little better.