What are the advantages and disadvantages of FFP vs SFP for ELR? I know that both the retical appears to enlarge when the magnification is turned up on a FFP scope and that it's zero doesn't change with magnification. Are there any drawbacks to a FFP scope when shooting long range / extreme long range? Please keep responses to answering the question and not referring me to some other topic that discusses it. Thank you.
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First Focal Plane vs Second Focal Plane for ELR
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I had a 2nd focal plane Leupold mark 4. I bought a 1st focal plane Bushnell HDMR with the TRemMor reticle and love it. Take a look at Magpul's elr video and go from there. A lot of great info is to be learned from Accuracy 1st.
I can't think of any drawbacks to a FFP scope. Other side of the coin is that for ELR I'm always on max power (NF 5.5-22) so paying extra for FFP is a non-starter for me. I would rather have a SFP scope with better glass e.g NF NXS than a FFP with lower quality glass e.g. Vorpex Viper FFP. You can use the demarcation of either style to correct for missed shots, just realize that with a SFP scope, set to magnification other than the reference magnification, that the value is likely greater (1MOA @ 22x should become 2 MOA @ 11x, etc. but this needs to be verified) If you intend to spend time on lower magnifications, for instance while searching for targets, and if you intend to use your reticle for accurate ranging, and if cost is not an object, then the benefit of FFP is clear, no pun intended.
The only drawback with FFP for ELR shooting, from my experience, is you tend to shoot near maximum magnification and lose quite a bit of the reticle real estate and the lines tend to thicken up quite a bit in most designs. Some of the farthest shots I've made I've had to dial back the magnification so I can get some extra elevation holdovers. That wouldn't be an issue with a SFP scope as the reticle doesn't change with magnification. However, with SFP it's more difficult to range targets (which is generally pointless at ELR distances) and call adjustments based on splash than with a FFP. With FFP you can literally see how many MOA or MIL you are off when you observe the splash while SPF you'll generally have to guess (unless you're using the fixed magnification method). But in reality, if you're shooting ELR distances, you're wise to have a spotter who's running a high magnification spotter scope with FFP reticle who can call your adjustments.
So they both have pros/cons for ELR shooting, which leads me to say it's all a matter of preference or the conditions in which you shoot. Without a spotter, use FFP and dial back your magnification. If your reticle is too thick at full magnification or you need more elevation to hold, assuming you have a FFP spotter, consider SFP.
So they both have pros/cons for ELR shooting, which leads me to say it's all a matter of preference or the conditions in which you shoot. Without a spotter, use FFP and dial back your magnification. If your reticle is too thick at full magnification or you need more elevation to hold, assuming you have a FFP spotter, consider SFP.
The comments about thickness at high powers always baffle me. The reticle always has the same subtension in an FFP scope. Now, I can understand how it might get hard to see at a lower power, just like the target.
So far as I can tell, there is no advantage at all to an SFP system, except reticle visibility at very low powers.
Since it is not always possible to use the maximum magnification at ELR distances due to mirage, I would always suggest an FFP scope. If you dial down in an SFP system, you can't hold wind or elevation, since the markings are not correct. Certainly you can calibrate it to some given value at some given power, but I doubt you'll ever get the required level of precision for ELR work doing that.
An SFP scope would be fine for short range uses where holds are pretty rare, like LE work, and the users may spend a fair bit of time at a low power and in dim light where reticle visibility might be an issue. Quite honestly, I don't have any real utility for an SFP system, I only have a couple on legacy systems for training/demonstration uses.
So far as I can tell, there is no advantage at all to an SFP system, except reticle visibility at very low powers.
Since it is not always possible to use the maximum magnification at ELR distances due to mirage, I would always suggest an FFP scope. If you dial down in an SFP system, you can't hold wind or elevation, since the markings are not correct. Certainly you can calibrate it to some given value at some given power, but I doubt you'll ever get the required level of precision for ELR work doing that.
An SFP scope would be fine for short range uses where holds are pretty rare, like LE work, and the users may spend a fair bit of time at a low power and in dim light where reticle visibility might be an issue. Quite honestly, I don't have any real utility for an SFP system, I only have a couple on legacy systems for training/demonstration uses.
The only advantage the FFP against the SFP is when ranging target. With FFP, you can range target at any magnification whereas the SFP has to be done usually at the highest magnification. With practice however, you can be just proficient with SFP than with FFP. I shoot Open F class and I prefer SFP scopes.
not only is FFP better for being able to range your target at all magnifications it is better to adjust for a miss as well. if you have SFP and are not at full power because of mirage issues and your scope said you missed 2 mils low and 2 mils right you might not actually be 2 mils off. A FFP at any power will let you accurately read your miss and dial it in for a follow on hit. another important thing is quality of glass, you can't shoot what you can't see.
(all of my scopes are FFP)
(all of my scopes are FFP)
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Bingo. Getting on target can be as easy as 2 shots. Shoot a round, read how many mil's your off, and put it into the turrets. No playing around with magnification or math. I'm not always using max magnification.
In my opinion , the most advertised benefit of FFP is for accurate ranging. However I think thats nothing more than a gimmick. Its a good skill to know I suppose but it just doesn't have much utility these days. You either use a rangefinder or GPS. Its not accurate enough for long range and short range even a cheap rangefinder will do the job. The real gold is translating what you see into a quick adjustment of the turrets.
Also, just like cory mentioned, the argument for the reticle being too big at high magnifications doesn't make sense. The reticle is ALWAYS the same MOA wide. What are reticles generally, 1/4 moa wide? If your 1/4moa reticle is covering up your target at ELR, you shoot better than anyone I know.
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