Rifle Scopes First Mil-Dot scope question

[Amanda4461]

I have a Leupold MK5 5-25 mounted on a Bergara HMR 300 Win Mag. It was zero’d and all was fine. Today, I mounted an Area419 20moa base, and took to my local range to re-zero. Of course, I hadn’t thought about the affect of the rail to my elevation. At 100 yards, with the elevation turret down as far as it would go, ( zero stop was pushed in), I was hitting two feet or so above my poa. Decided after two shots, to alter my aim by using the Mil-Dot hash near the top of my view. Worked so well, that I worked my way with the Mil-Dot hash trick all the way out to 400 yards, which is the limit of this range. I never came close to using the center of the reticle. The Mil-Dot hash marks corresponded to the results from Hornady ‘s ballistic calculator, to allow me to make repeat hits easily. After firing 50 rounds, knocking down the 400 yard silhouette steel, and being turned into a believer of muzzle brakes, I quit for the day.
Was the scope being unable to zero at 100 yards a normal thing, or do I need to make an adjustment to the Leupold? The turret is bottomed out. If not, I’ll progress to the 1 mile range and see how far I need to go till I have to use the elevation turret,
Thanks for your response.

 

[dirthead1]

You’re hitting the zero stop. Loosen the turret screws, rotate the turret cap CCW in the up direction about half a turn. Then retighten the turret cap screws. That will allow more downward adjustment. You should then be able to zero.

 

[308pirate]

At 100 yards, with the elevation turret down as far as it would go, ( zero stop was pushed in)

You're hitting the zero stop location from when you zeroed without the 20 MOA base

You need to reset the stop to let you continue turning the elevation knob down until you're POA = POI at 100 yards, then re-set the zero stop to match.

 

[Amanda4461]

You're hitting the zero stop location from when you zeroed without the 20 MOA base

You need to reset the stop to let you continue turning the elevation knob down until you're POA = POI at 100 yards, then re-set the zero stop to match.

Houston, I may have other issues. I rotate the turret cap after loosening the two set screws. It is supposed to give me three revolutions of travel, 30 Mils. It stopped after two revolutions. After reading some other folk's problems with this turret, one guy said he positioned it all over the center post and moved it back and forth, and the turret responded. Another guy called Leupold and they sent him a new turret cap. The new turret worked fine. Leupold knew that they had some bad ones out there. I played with mine, and am about 1.5 mils of giving me the three full revolutions. I decided to see how much total travel that the actual center stem uses, and it makes 4 rotations from bottomed out to topped out. So, I set the stem in the middle, 2 revolutions from the bottom, placed the turret on loose, and it shows the same amount of travel now which is 29 mils +/_ a mil. Since I have never had a scope issue before this, I decided to use the handy-dandy mil-dots and see if the stadia moved during the turret going from wide open to fully shut down. Nope. Of course, I just assumed that it would? The stadia remains centered in mil-dot land, 5 mil above, and 5 mil below center.
I also tried the step suggested above, to " Loosen the turret screws, rotate the turret cap CCW in the up direction about half a turn. Then retighten the turret cap screws. That will allow more downward adjustment. You should then be able to zero. "
This was done, and my total turret travel decreased to barely 20.2 mil. I never could get a third revolution using this method.
I am wondering about the blue dot marked on the center stem. Appears to be an alignment mark. It is in the location that it was in when I first removed the turrets and counted the total travel. I'll ask Leupold if I ever call them.
Any suggestions, I am willing to try anything?
Thanks!

 

[308pirate]

I have no idea of the exact solution to your problem since I don't have your particular scope and I can't follow from where you started.

I think you're lost in the scope. I suggest disengaging the zero stop (however that's done in your scope), placing the erector back to optical center (centered between the extremes of windage and elevation travel) and starting over from scratch.

 

[Krawlven]

Good luck getting it back to a normal zero.

At least you had fun with the mill dots

Have you considered maybe you just have a 600 yard zero now ?

 

[Amanda4461]

I played with my brake cleaner late last night, cleaned the fancy turret and lubed with CLP. Eureka! I now have three revolutions, and the crosshairs are moving properly. The erector is set for two clicks from bottomed out. I’ll know if I have a 600 yard zero on Monday, when I get to the 1 mile range for a trial. If I wasn’t retired, I would be frustrated. Now it is just one of my interesting learning experiences. Thanks for the suggestions, and the comments

 

[pmclaine]

As an aside and related to your "discovery"...

I have a couple rifles that I run "capped turret" 3-9X scopes with mil reticles on.

I dont trust the adjustments of the budget scopes but 5 mils wont get me out to the distance of .308 or .223 that these rifles use.

I zeroed the .308 at a 2 mil hold under on 9X. That gives me 7 mils of hold - just over 700 yards.

If I dial to 4.5X I double my mil reticle measurements and can get the scope to take me to 1000 yards.

Just so happens Im shooting my .223 rifle today and plan on playing with the tall target and holds.

With the wee bitty bullets the problem is not as extreme as Im only going to 700 or so yards and a standard zero (cross hold) doubled gives me 10 mils.

Learn your scope and play with it. Its fun. Use holds as much as possible if not shooting for groups.

 

[308pirate]

I zeroed the .308 at a 2 mil hold under on 9X. That gives me 7 mils of hold - just over 700 yards.

What kind of 308 ammo needs 7 mils to get to 700 yards? My 178 ELD-X handloads leaving the gun at 2600 need 5.6 mils to get there in hot temps (85 - 95) and .3 more when it gets down in the 20s - 30s.

 

[308pirate]

I played with my brake cleaner late last night, cleaned the fancy turret and lubed with CLP.

?

 

[seansmd]

This went from a very simple and accurate response of fix the zero stop on your scope, to a wtf post.

If your scope has 30mils of total travel, you don't get that as usable up travel. You get roughly 15mils in a optically centered setup and with your 20moa rail you get +6mil.

 

[pmclaine]

What kind of 308 ammo needs 7 mils to get to 700 yards? My 178 ELD-X handloads leaving the gun at 2600 need 5.6 mils to get there in hot temps (85 - 95) and .3 more when it gets down in the 20s - 30s.

175 FGMM out of my M40 clone is 7.03 mils to 750 yards at 505' DALT.

 

[308pirate]

175 FGMM out of my M40 clone is 7.03 mils to 750 yards at 505' DALT.

Oh that makes more sense now. At 750 my Hornady load needs 6.3 - 6.5 but it has a better BC than the ole 175 SMK.

 

[pmclaine]

This went from a very simple and accurate response of fix the zero stop on your scope, to a wtf post.

If your scope has 30mils of total travel, you don't get that as usable up travel. You get roughly 15mils in a optically centered setup and with your 20moa rail you get +6mil.

Agreed I muddied the waters.

Appreciated his discovery he could hold his mils and say "Fuck your dialing".

Better to just set the zero stop and have the ability to dial but good he realized he can use his equipment even when he thinks its inoperable.

I shot with a guy last week that upon arrival at the range found the lock screws on his Night Force turret were stripped.

No problem he carried on and shot all the targets out to 680 yards with his reticle.

 

[308pirate]

This went from a very simple and accurate response of fix the zero stop on your scope, to a wtf post.

If your scope has 30mils of total travel, you don't get that as usable up travel. You get roughly 15mils in a optically centered setup and with your 20moa rail you get +6mil.

I got more confused the more "info" the OP posted.

 

[pmclaine]

Oh that makes more sense now. At 750 my Hornady load needs 6.3 - 6.5 but it has a better BC than the ole 175 SMK.

2550 to 2675 if I remember right. Data not presently at hand.

Checked data - 175 FGMM runs 2549 at muzzle with magnetospeed.

 

[Amanda4461]

I got more confused the more "info" the OP posted.

This went from a very simple and accurate response of fix the zero stop on your scope, to a wtf post.

If your scope has 30mils of total travel, you don't get that as usable up travel. You get roughly 15mils in a optically centered setup and with your 20moa rail you get +6mil.

Ok. So I don’t know jack shit about scopes. I have three Leupolds. Two are Mk4 MOA models. Their turrets are nothing like the MK5 turret. On the MK4, I count how many clicks from bottomed out, to topped out, divide by 2, and set the turret at that number of clicks. 40 clicks/2=20 clicks is where the reticle should be centered. I then loosen the set screws and turn the turret to Zero, and tighten the set screws. I can shoot a sighter, and adjust elevation from 25 yards, then move to 100 for my initial zero. The turret allows stadia movement up or down. I have 20 clicks of Up Elevation, and 20 clicks of Down Elevation.
The MK5 Mil scope turret looks like a scroll compressor if you take the Elevation turret off and look at the underside. From the factory, it came set bottomed out at 0. It is advertised as having three revolutions (30 Mils) of elevation. Mine, as others have complained about, did not provide the full 30 Mils of Elevation. I cleaned the little turret, lubricated it, and turned it back and forth about 50 times, all while the setscrews were loosened. It clicks as it should now, the Zero-stop works great, it pops into the turret on the second revolution, and the indicator pin pops up on the third revolution. It does not get to 30 Mils at any time. Others indicate that their turrets needed to be replaced, due to a factory-known turret problem. This of minor concern, since I have a 20 MOA base.
My problem is simple: I don’t know how to adjust the turret to lower my point of impact. At 0 Elevation, my 300 Win Mag impacts some 2.5 feet above point of aim. The turret does not allow me to go below 0. I tried the trick of loosening the turret, and rotating the dial to move the turret. All that did was reduce the number of clicks available. I am used to turning the scope turrets in the direction I want the bullet to go. The MK5 adjustment is Up only. Yes, I am over-complicating this shit. But how in hell do I get my impact to go lower, if my turret only goes Up?
Thanks for all help.

 

[supercorndogs]

You loosen the turret cover screws. Turn the turret away from the zero stop and retighten the screws. If your scope is mechanically bottomed out and you are 2.5ft high at 100y. You have other problems. The MK5 has 35 mil total adjustment, you would need more than a 20 MOA base to get 30 mils of adjustment.

 

[Amanda4461]

You loosen the turret cover screws. Turn the turret away from the zero stop and retighten the screws. If your scope is mechanically bottomed out and you are 2.5ft high at 100y. You have other problems. The MK5 has 35 mil total adjustment, you would need more than a 20 MOA base to get 30 mils of adjustment.

Thanks . This sounds like what Dirthead1 advised initially. Before I cleaned and rotated the turret half a zillion times to get it to click, it wouldn’t work. Tried it again, and have some hope. I’ll do this, and try to get a zero tomorrow.

 

[seansmd]

Doesn't the MK5 have the tooless zero stop button on top?

https://cdnp.leupold.com/products/productDownloads/mark5_riflescopemanual_1.pdf?mtime=20180508153950

 

[chevy_man]

Doesn't the MK5 have the tooless zero stop button on top?

https://cdnp.leupold.com/products/productDownloads/mark5_riflescopemanual_1.pdf?mtime=20180508153950

No.


If you need down travel, loosen the screws but don't remove the turret cap. Spin it clockwise a full turn, and tighten the set screws. Now you'll be able to spin it down a revolution to get your zero.

Once you're zero'd, loosen the screws and set the cap to zero. This will be your hard to stop that you need to push the button to adjust.

 

[theLBC]

don't know if it helps at all, but i ended up with 18.1 mils left after 100 yds zero on a 0moa mounted 3.6-18x44

 

[supercorndogs]

I am pretty close to that also, on a 0 moa Seekins. I don't remember exactly, but way more than I needed on my 223. LOL

 

[dirthead1]

23.2 mils with a 20 moa base on my 3.6-18.

 

[chevy_man]

Just checked, I get 27.8 up with my 5-25 on a 20moa rail.

I did need to loosen and rotate the windage several times to get zero.

 

[Amanda4461]

Success!
Thanks to all who advised on my little problem. I talked to Leupold tech service Monday, was asked me to do the mirror test after I attempted to find optical center. Looked good, so took 50 rounds to the range, posted a 25 yard Bullseye target at 100 yards, bore sighted, and found myself about 1.5 foot too high. Loosened the set screws on Elevation, and rotated it clockwise 5 mil. Fired for effect, and was in the black. Found zero, loosened setscrews and removed turret, reinstalled with zero indication on zero mark. Shot my remaining rounds and put a hurt on every piece of steel on the range. Thanks folks!