First Spotting Scope: Vortex Viper HD or Razor HD (65mm vs 85mm) or something else?

[sidewaysil80]

I'm at the point in my shooting where I'd like to purchase a spotting scope and would like to ask the hide to weigh in on my two options as well as offer any suggestions.

Majority of its use will be bullet holes on paper @ 300yds and monthly spotting trace/steel hits out to 1200yds at local match. I've decided on an angled eyepiece due to prone shooting as well as ease on neck if spotting at said match. Based on the above use I have the following questions:

65mm vs 85mm objective? Since I'm not hiking/carrying weight is of no concern to me. Aside from weight/cost, would there be any other benefit to the 65mm vs the 85mm? If for my uses I can get away with the 65mm so be it, I'll save some money, however I feel like the larger objective would pay dividends at the match in different lighting conditions.

Obviously from a cost perspective I'm leaning towards the Viper HD line. However I'm willing to spend twice as more on the Razor if it performs twice as much. Also, for my uses is the Razors performance increase necessary or "worth it"?

That being said the Razor HD is about at my max at around $1500. If there is something that performs better at that price I'd certainly like to hear about it.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

If you are set on a Vortex then get the Razor HD as it is a much finer scope than the Viper HD. If you are asking if this is at the top of the "scope world" then no it is not. Look at a Kowa for superior quality for the $$$ spent

 

[sidewaysil80]

If you are set on a Vortex then get the Razor HD as it is a much finer scope than the Viper HD. If you are asking if this is at the top of the "scope world" then no it is not. Look at a Kowa for superior quality for the $$$ spent

Would the Kowa TSN-82SV + TE-9Z 20-60 eyepiece be optically superior to the Razor HD? Price wise that is comparable.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

I've not done a side by side so I cannot give a reply. I am sorry

 

[Kadams1563]

What about a pair of binocs? That’s all people are using for spotting now.

12x razors or vipers.

 

[northshorelumber]

My LGS still has the first generation Vortex Razor new in the box at a huge discount. Superior to the Viper at close to the same price. 85mm if you aren't going to pack the the scope.

 

[Scopes]

I have not looked thru the vortex spotters. I can say that the tsn-82 sv with te-9z is really sharp though.

 

[Friday]

I owned a Vortex HD and like every other thing I bought of Vortex it took a poo on me Swarovski Nightforce or Kowa would be my options I may even venture to say that an athlon would be a good cheap choice as I have tried many athlon optics and only had to send one back.

 

[sidewaysil80]

I've not done a side by side so I cannot give a reply. I am sorry

Which model Kowa would you say is comparable/better than the Razor within that price point? I don't mean to nag I'm just interested since you brought them up.

What about a pair of binocs? That’s all people are using for spotting now.
12x razors or vipers.

I don't think that will work for my intended uses.

My LGS still has the first generation Vortex Razor new in the box at a huge discount. Superior to the Viper at close to the same price. 85mm if you aren't going to pack the the scope.

I'm curious as to the price. If you wouldn't mind shoot me a message if you don't want to post it.

I have not looked thru the vortex spotters. I can say that the tsn-82 sv with te-9z is really sharp though.

I'm considering this combo however I can only find info on Kowa with fixed power eyepieces.





The list grows...
Viper HD 20-60x85
Razor HD 27-60x85
Nightforce TS-80
Kowa TSN-82 w/ 9Z 20-60 eyepiece
Kowa TSN-663M w/ 9Z 20-60 eyepiece

 

[Rob01]

If you want to have a reticle in the spotter then get the 85mm Razor as they offer the mil or moa reticle eye pieces for those models. If not then the 65mm is another option.

I had the original Razor Spotter and now have the new version. The glass is a little better in the new version and I like the way the focus works and also that you can adjust the whole scope rotation with the set screw on the right side. I have the mil reticle for it. It has a great feature in that the reticle itself moves by adjusting the ring so if yout target is crooked or on an angle or hill you can just turn and get a good reading. No need to move the scope itself.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

The Kowa 66mm, 77mm and 82SV are excellent spotters. If you have a few minutes to give me a call to discuss them and which would be best for you I think that would be adventagous

 

[sidewaysil80]

If you want to have a reticle in the spotter then get the 85mm Razor as they offer the mil or moa reticle eye pieces for those models. If not then the 65mm is another option.

I had the original Razor Spotter and now have the new version. The glass is a little better in the new version and I like the way the focus works and also that you can adjust the whole scope rotation with the set screw on the right side. I have the mil reticle for it. It has a great feature in that the reticle itself moves by adjusting the ring so if yout target is crooked or on an angle or hill you can just turn and get a good reading. No need to move the scope itself.

Would I be losing much going with 65 vice 85 on the new razor? I’ve read that the most noticeable difference is field of view, but wasn’t sure how applicable/detremental that was to my needs. I don’t mind paying extra for the 85 if its benefits for me outweigh the cost.

 

[Rob01]

If just using for spotting and not needing the reticle the 65mm would work well as it also has great glass. FOV for your needs wouldn't be an issue either but the FOV is still good on the smaller model.

If you are a vet, mil, LE, fire etc you can get better pricing with the Vortex LE/Mil program as well.

 

[sidewaysil80]

If just using for spotting and not needing the reticle the 65mm would work well as it also has great glass. FOV for your needs wouldn't be an issue either but the FOV is still good on the smaller model.

If you are a vet, mil, LE, fire etc you can get better pricing with the Vortex LE/Mil program as well.

First off thanks so much for your input and advice! As far as pricing yes I’m eligible so the difference between the two is only $200. My only real dilemma is the Viper 85 vs Razor 85, the price difference there is essentially double.

I spent all night looking into Kowa’s and the Kowa 66M (prominar glass) and their 20-60 eyepiece comes in at about the razor pricing. Wasn’t sure how they compare as the specs seem to lean towards razor.

 

[Rob01]

The Vipers are a good deal and a good spotter but if you can swing the Razor I think you would be better off. If not then the Viper will serve you well.

Kowa makes a good spotter too and I used one years back but something to think about is warranty. You spend the amount of money you are right now and you accidentally knock the spotter off your bench or it's at a match and the wind takes it over and it smacks a rock. Completely covered by Vortex and will be repaired or replaced free of charge. This is a great advantage to the Vortex brand. People talk down the Vortex warranty but when money is being spent it's nice to have and not worry about accidentally damaging your equipment.

 

[Novak77]

I went through exactly what you're going through a few months back. I ended up scoring a new Razor 27-60 x 85mm with a milling reticle off the PX for a great price. Overall I am very happy with it. Does it compare to a Swarovski, short answer is no lol. But for the price and my use the Razor is hard to beat.

Between the Viper and the Razor I'd pick the Razor personally. I looked through both inside a store and the Razor had the edge in clarity and was brighter in the dimly lit store.

Doug from Camera Land is awesome to work with and will steer you in the right direction.

 

[Diver160651]

First off thanks so much for your input and advice! As far as pricing yes I’m eligible so the difference between the two is only $200. My only real dilemma is the Viper 85 vs Razor 85, the price difference there is essentially double.

I spent all night looking into Kowa’s and the Kowa 66M (prominar glass) and their 20-60 eyepiece comes in at about the razor pricing. Wasn’t sure how they compare as the specs seem to lean towards razor.

Are you ever going to pack your spotter? 85s are ugly to carry and while a lot of guys have them, often they get left home.

I down sized and carry a Razor 65HD with the wide angle lens. Seems Vortex made a smart choice to use it it brighten up the scope image. Truth be told it is brighter to my eyes than the ATS Swaro 65 I used without their wide angle eye piece.

At the 85mm and ATX level, the Swaros are really something else.

 

[sidewaysil80]

Are you ever going to pack your spotter? 85s are ugly to carry and while a lot of guys have them, often they get left home.

I down sized and carry a Razor 65HD with the wide angle lens. Seems Vortex made a smart choice to use it it brighten up the scope image. Truth be told it is brighter to my eyes than the ATS Swaro 65 I used without their wide angle eye piece.

At the 85mm and ATX level, the Swaros are really something else.

As far as packing goes likely no. Pretty much from my trunk to the bench for most use. For matches, at most I'd be carrying it 3-400 yds total. But that's great to hear about the Razor. On the newer 16x48x65 models is the wide angle lens standard or is that an upgrade?

 

[Diver160651]

As far as packing goes likely no. Pretty much from my trunk to the bench for most use. For matches, at most I'd be carrying it 3-400 yds total. But that's great to hear about the Razor. On the newer 16x48x65 models is the wide angle lens standard or is that an upgrade?

It is standard... and it fits in a side pocket of my match pack -- or hunting pack. I really did not want to like it over the ATS 65 Swaro.. but I did..

 

[sidewaysil80]

thanks for all the help everyone. I ordered the Razor HD 22-48x65 tonight and then pulled the trigger on a tripod as well. Shopped around and picked up a Manfrotto 055XPROB tripod and then stumbled on a 498RC2 head. It's a little overkill but I wanted something that I could shoot off of as well. Luckily I scoured the ebay and craigslist and was able to get the tripod setup for under $180! So effectively dropping down to the 65mm Razor paid for it.

 

[Lkwoolsey]

I'm at the point in my shooting where I'd like to purchase a spotting scope and would like to ask the hide to weigh in on my two options as well as offer any suggestions.

Majority of its use will be bullet holes on paper @ 300yds and monthly spotting trace/steel hits out to 1200yds at local match. I've decided on an angled eyepiece due to prone shooting as well as ease on neck if spotting at said match. Based on the above use I have the following questions:

65mm vs 85mm objective? Since I'm not hiking/carrying weight is of no concern to me. Aside from weight/cost, would there be any other benefit to the 65mm vs the 85mm? If for my uses I can get away with the 65mm so be it, I'll save some money, however I feel like the larger objective would pay dividends at the match in different lighting conditions.

Obviously from a cost perspective I'm leaning towards the Viper HD line. However I'm willing to spend twice as more on the Razor if it performs twice as much. Also, for my uses is the Razors performance increase necessary or "worth it"?

That being said the Razor HD is about at my max at around $1500. If there is something that performs better at that price I'd certainly like to hear about it.

For Vortex, go with the Razor 85mm, since that is the only vortex spotter that you can get a reticle for. You have to purchase a new eye piece for it, but the Viper doesn't even have the option. Just my two cents.

 

[Speedbird21]

If you're interested in a Vortex HD 27-60x85 (Newest model) i have literally brand new one. Im spending the money and going swarovski. It has a Vortex cover on it as well. I would rate it 9.8 out of 10. If you're interested

 

[Vamike9]

I spoke with the Vortex rep before buying the new model Viper HD. They said that the Viper HD is very close to the old Razor and I'd agree.
I love mine and have much higher quality optics to compare to.
Just one man's opinion

 

[The King]

Oddly I still love my Leupold MK4 with TMR.

 

[Rdubs1978]

If you're interested in a Vortex HD 27-60x85 (Newest model) i have literally brand new one. Im spending the money and going swarovski. It has a Vortex cover on it as well. I would rate it 9.8 out of 10. If you're interested

Hey Speedbird21, sorry to butt in, but by any chance do you still have that spotter for sale? If so, is it the straight or angled version?

 

[Vamike9]

I'm at the point in my shooting where I'd like to purchase a spotting scope and would like to ask the hide to weigh in on my two options as well as offer any suggestions.

Majority of its use will be bullet holes on paper @ 300yds and monthly spotting trace/steel hits out to 1200yds at local match. I've decided on an angled eyepiece due to prone shooting as well as ease on neck if spotting at said match. Based on the above use I have the following questions:

65mm vs 85mm objective? Since I'm not hiking/carrying weight is of no concern to me. Aside from weight/cost, would there be any other benefit to the 65mm vs the 85mm? If for my uses I can get away with the 65mm so be it, I'll save some money, however I feel like the larger objective would pay dividends at the match in different lighting conditions.

Obviously from a cost perspective I'm leaning towards the Viper HD line. However I'm willing to spend twice as more on the Razor if it performs twice as much. Also, for my uses is the Razors performance increase necessary or "worth it"?

That being said the Razor HD is about at my max at around $1500. If there is something that performs better at that price I'd certainly like to hear about it.

A little late to the conversation, but from what I can tell, if you haven't already chosen a spotting scope?
Go with the new Viper HD, everyone I know says it is so little difference in clarity.
Guys at SportOptics said the 20-60×85mm is the beat bang for your buck.

Here's a link to some guys who did a decent job at showing the differences.

 

[Runnineh]

Buy once cry once, go big or don't go. In this sport/hobby, it can be an expensive lesson to learn. Go look through them all, then buy the one you like most regardless what others think

 

[Vamike9]

Usually I'd agree with the buy once cry once, as I've lived by that one as well.

However, as I've seen from multiple reviewers and sportsman, the best value is the new Viper HD spotter.

The same can not be said of the Viper vs Razor scope lines, as the Razor is far superior in that arena.

I own and have owned just about every high-end optic, and I'll tell you Vortex is no joke, they are good stuff.

 

[Vamike9]

Today I went out to the range with my
Vortex Viper 20-60×85mm (newer model).

I can tell you that it is very bright, and able to spot 22 holes at at least 300yds minimum.

Ability to spot hits on steel well past 1300yds, depending on mirage and steel target size.
I'd say 8-12 inch steel at 1000yds would be a breeze for this spotting scope.

I don't currently have a phoneskope to take the best pics with this spotter, but I'll try to get some as soon as possible.

 

[chutinlead]

Why not go to https://aaoptics.com/Razor-HD_c_147.html and pickup a vortex razor gen 1 20-60x85 for only $850?

 

[Vamike9]

Why not go to https://aaoptics.com/Razor-HD_c_147.html and pickup a vortex razor gen 1 20-60x85 for only $850?

Yeah they are good on refurbished stuff!
I still believe that the function and design is much better on the newer Viper than the older Razor.

 

[chutinlead]

well they've got new razors for just over $1K and the Vipers.

 

[Vamike9]

well they've got new razors for just over $1K and the Vipers.

I seen that too, a few days ago, just worried about condition. Although some pics have shown them in fair condition.

 

[chutinlead]

I seen that too, a few days ago, just worried about condition. Although some pics have shown them in fair condition.

I wouldn't worry a whole lot about condition. If its broken, its still covered under vortex VIP warranty, and if its not brand new, you get what you pay for.

 

[Vamike9]

I wouldn't worry a whole lot about condition. If its broken, its still covered under vortex VIP warranty, and if its not brand new, you get what you pay for.

Your right, but I assume they mark these with something to know they are refurbs?

 

[chevy_man]

One thing I'll throw out there. If you're not hiking it in, get the bigger scope.

Exit pupil sucks on the higher mag. 1.5mm isn't good for low light. All the scopes I looked at are down in the 1.4-1.6mm range at full power. 2mm+ is where you'll want to use it for your own sanity. We don't typically use our rifle scopes below a 2mm exit, why drive yourself nuts behind the spotter.


I picked up a sx-4 Leupold. 20-60x85mm. It's great during a sunny day I can see forever clearly with 60x. Anytime the light drops I'm back to 50, 45, 30, etc. It's usable at dawn and dusk at 20-30x. Still crystal clear picture and plenty of resolution, just not enough light so things go dark quick on the high end.


For what it's worth, I compared it to several gold rings and I think the sx-4 glass is better than the old ones, but I'd call it equal to the newer HD. It's a heavyweight (78oz vs 62oz 20-60) for $1000 cheaper. The sx-5 glass was amazing, but the price was again $1200 more.

 

[Vamike9]

For every dollar you spend over $500, you will get less and less for your money.
I really do think the newer Viper HD 20-60×85 is a great choice as well, if you don't mind the extra size and weight...

 

[Kamerad]

I went with Leupold Mk4 12-40x60 TMR on a black friday sale, and i'm happy. I avoided looking through a Swarovski, because I was saving for the rifle set up I bought later.

 

[Steel head]

I avoided looking through a Swarovski, because I was saving for the rifle set up I bought later.

Lol
Smart!

last time I Spotted through a MK4 we were getting the best trace I’ve ever seen.

 

[Aldon]

well they've got new razors for just over $1K and the Vipers.

glad I stumbled across and then chose to read this thread. I was unaware of this vendor previously. Although I have had great luck buying Vortex Demo I it’s in past. I made the plunge on the 27-60 as well as the mrad eyepiece. I looked through all units and in “my” eyes, I could see a margin between them that justified additional cost. Basically I get the reticle eyepiece at no cost.

 

[chutinlead]

glad I stumbled across and then chose to read this thread. I was unaware of this vendor previously. Although I have had great luck buying Vortex Demo I it’s in past. I made the plunge on the 27-60 as well as the mrad eyepiece. I looked through all units and in “my” eyes, I could see a margin between them that justified additional cost. Basically I get the reticle eyepiece at no cost.

My spotter for BPCR matches has a gen 1 Razor with the MOA reticle and it’s awesome. Feels like cheating being able to give precise corrections and get someone on target after 1 shot

 

[HydroMT]

I have a first gen Vortex Razor 65mm and it is a great value scope, the 85mm was too big for me.

 

[Odogster]

I vote razor

 

[Bond Villain]

Today I went out to the range with my
Vortex Viper 20-60×85mm (newer model).

I can tell you that it is very bright, and able to spot 22 holes at at least 300yds minimum.

Ability to spot hits on steel well past 1300yds, depending on mirage and steel target size.
I'd say 8-12 inch steel at 1000yds would be a breeze for this spotting scope.

I don't currently have a phoneskope to take the best pics with this spotter, but I'll try to get some as soon as possible.

Hi,
I’m in the UK and have one of these on order, which will take a month. I’m hoping to get the foam cut in the Peli case that it will live in. If you get chance in the next few weeks any chance you can measure it for me. If it’s angled., thanks

 

[Recon_Scout]

If you are a vet, mil, LE, fire etc you can get better pricing with the Vortex LE/Mil program as well.

how exactly does vet get this discount?

 

[Rob01]

how exactly does vet get this discount?

Vortex has stopped doing it direct now but some vendors, Sport Optics is one I believe, do it as well as Expertvoice.

 

[jcann]

how exactly does vet get this discount?

This place also has the discounts as well, and you don't have to go through the middle man with Expertvoice.

Welcome to A&A Optics Inc - Certified Vortex Dealer

 

[Recon_Scout]

This place also has the discounts as well, and you don't have to go through the middle man with Expertvoice.

Welcome to A&A Optics Inc - Certified Vortex Dealer

Thank you!

 

[308pirate]

Would the Kowa TSN-82SV + TE-9Z 20-60 eyepiece be optically superior to the Razor HD? Price wise that is comparable.

By a wide margin

The Army Marksmanship Unit, who can afford almost anything, use Kowa spotters.

What does that tell you?

 

[chutinlead]

Vortex came out with a 33x power fixed reticle eyepiece for the latest viper HD 85mm which makes it even more appealing. I would have gone with one if I hadn’t stumbled across a gen 1 razor with the reticle eyepiece.