First time build - Sheep/Elk/Mountain/Long Ran Gun

[WI_RIck]

This is my first post on this forum. Looks like a very large group of knowledgeable individuals. So I thought I'd get some advice.

I've got a Winchester Model 70 SS in 300 Win Mag.

My plan is to
1) Rebarrel - with Shilen #4 26" - what twist?
2) Blue print the action, epoxy bed the barrel
3) Put in a Timney Trigger
4) HT Specialty stock - 20 ounce version
5) Vais Muzzle brake
6) Mount a Kahles 4x12x52 Multi-zero scope

I'm looking to kill elk and sheep out to 500 yards with confidence. I'll do some bench shooting, but its going to primarily be a hunting gun.

Couple of questions:
1) What do you think of the barrel? Should I do a 24" #3 or stick with the 26" #4?
2) Is it worth it going up to a Jewel trigger?
3) Anything else you'd add?

Thanks

 

[jasonk]

Re: First time build - Sheep/Elk/Mountain/Long Ran Gun

Here's my thoughts, not sure what a Shilen #4 is compared to others, but for a mountain/hunting rifle I wouldn't go over a #3 or the equivilent to a Remington Magnum contour and I might even go a hair lighter. 1-10" twist.

You'll just have the rifle bedded, the gunsmith will know what parts to bed.

Timney is good.

Not sure who HT is, I'd suggest a McMillan EDGE mountain rifle stock or the McMillan EDGE Classic pattern.

Noooo muzzle brake. Brakes are great on range rifles, they make you deaf on hunting rifles. There's no need for a brake unless you're going to spend a lot of time at the range, which you won't with a light rifle anyway. Trust me, no brake, the recoil won't be all that bad when you do have to shoot it off a bench and your ears will thank you. Start without one, you can always add it later.

That scope is to big and to heavy for a mountain gun. 500 yards is no biggie with a 10x scope and a 40mm obj. I shot a mule deer at 520 with a boring old Leupold VXIII 3.5-10x40 and had plenty of magnification. Get a new Leupold VX3 3.5-10x40 with the finger adjustable exposed hunting knob, tape a drop chart to the side of the rifle and rule the world with it.

Here's mine......

300 Weatherby Mag
Rem 700 SS Action
McMillan Classic in EDGE
26" Rock, 1-10", #3 contour
Rifle Basix Trigger
Leupold 3-10x40 VXIII w/ M1 Elevation
Talley LW's
Should go about 8# even w/ Butler Creeks and Mtn. Sling

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: First time build - Sheep/Elk/Mountain/Long Ran Gun

Match the twist to the intended projectile. For LR, consider between 165 and 210gr. For distance, as long a barrel as you can manage to tote around will be preferable. I am not so much a fan of bedding barrels. If you do it, make sure it's done by someone who does a lot of it and knows their stuff.

Barrel profiles and lengths for hunting rifles are best kept to the more common lengths and profiles, since most factory hunting ammo is configured for such barrels. Maybe you don't favor factory hunting ammo, but I do; and I think that keeping things in a more common configuration makes best sense.

I'd only replace the Rem 700 trigger if it cannot be adjusted effectively and safely; fewer issues without aftermarket add-ons. I personally do not feel comfortable in the field with a rifle that has less than a 3# trigger pull, and if it's smooth and crisp, I think 5# is OK, and safer.

The most commonly used hunting scope magnification is 3-9X. I think a smaller lower end magnification is valuable, but a higher one is fine as long as the field of view is wide enough.

I prefer a Simmons White Tail 2.5-10x50, of which I have several due to an inheritance.

A 9x is not going to be a handicap at distances out to 500yd. If you can afford a more reliable scope than a Simmons, by all means do so, but for me, they are adequate and acceptable.

For what you need to do, the existing chambering is very good. My old, feeble bod is not of tolerant of recoil; so I find the .280 Rem is very interesting proposition for a game getter, and would feel comfortable at your intended distances for any game shy of the big bears.

Greg

 

[ArcticFun]

Re: First time build - Sheep/Elk/Mountain/Long Ran Gun

As for stocks McMillian also offers the HTG EDGE, it's configured like an m49 stock. Also bedding the barrel channel will increase your weight by a bit. If you do want a muzzle break get one that's easily removable for hunting or better yet get a quick detach suppressor like the Surefire. A 26" tube nets you more velocity at the cost of mobility and a shorter one is the opposite (go figure huh?). If your already going to get a new barrel take a look at the 7mmRM, you get higher BC bullets with the same or close velocity. There is also the 7mm STW which improves upon the 7mmRM but I'm unsure of the boltface size. For a small scope with a mil-dot take a look at the Konus Pros. The objective is fairly small and the turrets have locks on them so your zero won't get messed with.

 

[ArcticFun]

Re: First time build - Sheep/Elk/Mountain/Long Ran Gun

Can't edit for some reason... I ment the M40 stock not the M49.

 

[Jerry m]

Re: First time build - Sheep/Elk/Mountain/Long Ran Gun

Great looking, functional rig you got there.

 

[Armed Ferret]

Re: First time build - Sheep/Elk/Mountain/Long Ran Gun

if i may impart a bit of wisdom passed on by a member of another forum who spends a great deal of time chasing critters all over mountainous terrain:

balance trumps weight. that said, Remington MR contour at 24" will be plenty, as will a mickey edge. top with talley LW's with your choice of optic and that oughta keep weight to a minimum. just remember that more magnification = more weight.

 

[RemingtonSPS]

Re: First time build - Sheep/Elk/Mountain/Long Ran Gun

Nothing wrong with the vias brake. No side ports you should be fine. #3 or #4 would be fine choices. I would favor #4 if you plan on shooting a lot. 22-24" barrel. You won't need the extra velocity for 500yds. 10 twist will do even the heavier bullets. +1 on the HTG Edge from mcm. Better ergonomics. I would top it with the NF 2.5-10x. My.02

 

[Huckleberry]

Re: First time build - Sheep/Elk/Mountain/Long Ran Gun

Too long a barrel, too heavy a contour, and way too big of a scope. That is my advice for a sheep rifle

 

[ToddM]

Re: First time build - Sheep/Elk/Mountain/Long Ran Gun

As others have said for a dedicated mountain rifle you have to haul all over at high elevations weight is key. Balance is important as well. So if you have a super light stock you need to go lighter and/or shorter on the barrel to keep the balance. You can also add just a bit of weight to a super light stock at the butt of it to balance the rifle, but still end up with a much lighter package than a heavier stock. Also remember in terms of balance to check balance with the scope/rings mounted.

After your first day in the mountains on an elk or sheep hunt you will take everything heavy or light, that you don't absolutely need (even stuff you thought you needed) out of your pack to save weight.

You might consider the 300wsm the shorter action will save you some weight. There are of course other great options the 270, 280, 7mmRM without getting into a whole caliber debate.

Light scope mounts the talley lightweights are great here. Not only do they remove one component by combining the base/rings but they are light. Make sure you have the smith check their alignment though, on the factory hunting guns I've put them on about half didn't need lapping and half did.

The smith should know how to bed the rifle the best way, however make sure you get it pillar bedded. It may cost a little more to have the pillars done but it's just a better end product. Especially with lighter stocks.

Light scopes, as others have said under 500 yards you don't need anything over 8-10x. The leupold 2.5-8x36 scope is a great light package. The kahles multizero scopes, great glass but they are heavier than spec. I picked up the 3-9x42 version and it's 17 ounces. I'd bet the 4-12x52 is at least 20oz. That's 1/2 pound heavier than a leupold 2.5-8x. The leupold 3.5-10x40 with CDS is great on paper at 13oz but I've already had one go bad.

I would buck the trend and get the vias brake done up front. It's a pain in the ass and expensive to have a gun shipped back in for it later, not to mention the downtime. Have them cut a thread cover for it as well so you can shoot it without the brake. If you do hunt with the brake make damn sure you wear ear protection.

Timmney triggers are fine, I've heard jewel triggers tend to be picky about being dirty. Also do NOT go too light on the trigger, 2.5-3 lbs MIN. 4-4.5 is probalby better. The reason is simple. It's cold, and you just hauled your ass up a mtn and your heart rate is pegged, adrenaline pumping, fine motor skills reduced, you might have gloves on. A 8oz trigger is not only dangerous but that much more likely you cannot control the shot break and make a poor shot or miss completely. I've seen this happen twice in the field deer hunting with guys taking light triggers in the field. They are not even 100% settled into the shot, safety comes off trigger finger goes in the guard and BOOM, opportunity wasted and/or game wounded. These same guys to this day still swear they can control, and must have light triggers in the field. Don't be one of these idiots.

A good bipod, I made the mistake of taking a 6-12" bipod elk hunting and it was useless. 12" isn't near high enough to get you over any brush or be of any use on a uphill/downhill shot even prone. I'd much rather have something in the 15-30" range or set of adjustable bipod shooting sticks. Something tall enough you can use from the sitting position. You may very well not have time to use either, but if you do the extra stability they offer is worth carrying them.

You can of course also use your pack or rocks/trees if they are handy. I had several situations on my elk hunt where I was on a sidehill and could not find a rock/tree for a rest and the 12" bipod was way too short or be of any use, my pack was not quite tall enough, but a 25-30" bipod would have been perfect in most situations.

One thing that is nice about the monopod shooting sticks is that if they have short sections with the shock cord in them, you can make various height bipod sticks out of them, cradling the forearm in the gap between sections on the shock cord.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Re: First time build - Sheep/Elk/Mountain/Long Ran Gun

For a light weight hunter, the Trijicon 3-9x40 is as good as anything I have seen. That little tritium dot is perfect for focusing on the single point that matters. It is light, low profile, and compact.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: First time build - Sheep/Elk/Mountain/Long Ran Gun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WI_Rick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is my first post on this forum. Looks like a very large group of knowledgeable individuals. So I thought I'd get some advice.

I've got a Winchester Model 70 SS in 300 Win Mag.

My plan is to
1) Rebarrel - with Shilen #4 26" - what twist?
2) Blue print the action, epoxy bed the barrel
3) Put in a Timney Trigger
4) HT Specialty stock - 20 ounce version
5) Vais Muzzle brake
6) Mount a Kahles 4x12x52 Multi-zero scope

I'm looking to kill elk and sheep out to 500 yards with confidence. I'll do some bench shooting, but its going to primarily be a hunting gun.

Couple of questions:
1) What do you think of the barrel? Should I do a 24" #3 or stick with the 26" #4?
2) Is it worth it going up to a Jewel trigger?
3) Anything else you'd add?

Thanks
</div></div>

Being in shape means a lot more than a pound or so of rifle weight. Go with the #4 barrel and Kahles scope if you like it. Test it under some extreme conditions if you can.

I wouldn't go with a Jewel or Timney. They're great triggers, but no need to is all. You can adjust the Winchester triggers to a very smooth #3-#4. If you don't feel you can do it have it done by the gunsmith when he does your barrel and bedding.

Get your ballistics down pat at the range from the bench then move to different positions and see how well you shoot at each one. You might be surprised and find yourself shooting offhand @ 300 yds. When hunting you certainly need your rifle zeroed, but position shooting is what we all most need to practice.


Edit:

I thought I'd address the Vais muzzle break. They are a pretty good deal. You don't get all the recoil reduction as other types. But, the Vais as you know blows the 'usage gas' out the front so as not to blow your eardrums out. It never hurts either to slip in a pair of earplugs you have on a string around your neck (triple flange) like I get at work if you have the time. Every little bit of hearing saved is good.