First training rifle? CZ457? Which optic?

[tps34433]

Hey everyone, I want to get in to long range target shooting maybe 100-200 yards at steel. And also up close shooting at small varmint that may be moving.

I’m considering the CZ457 Precision trainer 24.75” barrel model for the rifle. And I’m thinking a Leupold VX5HD 1-5X scope.

I’ve found the VX5HD for around $600 brand new. Which will probably be the clearest for the money. Considering it uses the same glass as even the highest end of Leupold scopes.

I’m a pistol shooter. And all I own is pistols. So, I’d like to get in to a highly accurate 22LR rifle. The CZ457 looks incredible.

I own a Thunder-beast 22LR suppressor, this is used on pistols but I originally bought it with accuracy in mind, knowing the TBAC 22 can is the most accurate and quiet 22 can around, and it will stay on whatever rifle setup I go with. My question is if I’m shooting subsonic 22LR ammo, would the 24.75” barrel make it supersonic all the time?

Any recommendations would be great! I prefer the look of the CZ457 Precision trainer with the longest barrel, it looks awesome with a suppressor on it.

Any general help on this setup, would be very beneficial to me.

 

[MDrimfirerookie]

let me get this out of the way before everyone else does... if you have the money and can do it, get a Vudoo.

If not, the 457 is an excellent choice and the VPT is their top of the line. Another consideration is the Varmint MTR but that only comes in a 20 inch non threaded barrel from the factory.

there are a lot more smart people who will likely chime in as well but you do have LOTS of options in that price point. it boils down to what do you want to accomplish in terms of your sight picture and importance/priority of scope properties (tracking, clear glass, non mushy turrets, reticle style.

In that $600 dollar range you can get lots of good scopes from Athlon and Vortex that will likely meet your needs. Some ones to look at include the Vortex Diamonback Tactical, Athlon Argos and Athlon Midas Tac (my personal recommendation)

 

[steve123]

Op, there are mid magnification variable power scopes that I think you'd be much happier with than that 1-5. Ones that focus close, like 10Y.

My go-to inexpensive $300 scope is the Athlon Talos 4-14x44 FFP in mil. If you want moa/moa then the Primary arms 4-14, both focus at 10Y on max mag and closer when mag is dialed down.

The Athlon TAC 4-16 is one great scope for the money, it compares with $1000 scopes well, and it focuses at 10Y.

 

[BigTex]

I Just received my 16.5" 457 VPT today, it is really nice! I have ordered a Vortex Razor AMG 6-24x50mm to top it with. I set myself a budget for this .22 and decided to go with the CZ and excellent glass than a Vudoo with mediocre glass. Any reason for a 24" barrel? I'm going to test it this week, if it shoots half as good as it looks I'll be pleased.

 

[Skok3y]

A 22lr shot is hard to see at 100-200yds, I think you will be left wanting with a 1-5x scope. I always suggest the most mag you can get, but it doesn't mean you have to use it all the time. It is a lot easier to shoot it, when you can see the target, but more importantly, see where you are hitting and missing.
My favorite is an Athlon Cronus 4.5-29 which can be had around $900 used, but the Ares BTR 4.5-27 is a solid scope at <$600. I would suggest it if that is your limit. Some of my best scores have been with my Cronus. I thought I liked 4-16 until I used 5-25, and could never go lower now.

 

[billmeek]

Athlon Midas TAC with the APRS3 reticle:

Midas TAC APRS3 FFP MIL Rifle Scope | Athlon Optics

This Midas TAC 6-24×50 Model has APRS3 first focal plane MIL reticle in it. This is not just another hunting rifle scope option, but the solution!

athlonoptics.com

The only thing it doesn't have is a lighted reticle.

Contact @gr8fuldoug from CameraLandNY here on the SnipersHide. He's a Athlon authorized retailer, a Sniper's Hide supporting vendor, and gives very good pricing to Sniper's Hide members.

PM link:

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/conversations/add?to=gr8fuldoug

 

[stilesg57]

Was just at the range this weekend sighting in several rifles and I needed ~12x before I could reliably see .22 caliber holes. Couldn’t see them with the 4x and 6x ones. My spotting scope/rifle (ha) has an 18x and has no issues with it. I’d recommend 15x or more if possible.

I love the VX5 series but honestly for a true trainer I think you’ll want something either ffp or fixed power, and designed more for dialing than the Leupys

 

[flatland1]

I've got Athlon Cronus 4.5-29x56 scopes on three .22RF precision bolt repeaters - jelrod-converted 40XB repeater, and two V-22 with sendero & kukri bbls, all in Manners T4A or PRS1 stocks. I've also got a V-22 carbine with 18" ACE Ranch contour in a Manners EH2; since this was meant to be a lighter walk-about .22, I went with a Midas TAC 6-24x50 on it. The Cronus scopes are awfully hard to beat for the money, with very good Japanese ED glass & excellent tracking. The first time I put one of these Cronus scopes on a .22 (1st precision .22 I built for myself, on a Stiller 2500XR action), I felt like it was over-kill compared to the 30mm Bushnell 6-24x50 ffp G2DMR I'd originally had on that rifle. It only took one range session with the Cronus to convince me not to go back to a lesser scope, and I've wound up putting Cronus scopes on every precision .22 repeater I've built since then, which includes a couple of converted 40X/XB repeaters and the two V-22s already mentioned. In the first place, the Bushnell had only 5 mils per revolution & no zero stop, which is a poor way to go for any .22RF that will be shot past 50yds. Cronus, Ares BTR & ETR, Midas TAC mil scopes all have 10 mils per rev, plus true zero stops, so are g-t-g for rimfire use. Plus they've all got good usable mil reticles. Both the Ares BTR & Midas TAC are within your $600 budget (Ares BTR 6-24x50 will be under $600 during Athlon's Memorial Day sale), and either one will work fine on the CZ. Main difference is that the Midas TAC doesn't have an illuminated reticle.

If I were you, I'd be looking for a Precision Trainer with the 20.5" bbl., especially if you intend to shoot suppressed more often than not. It'll balance nicely, and be easier to maneuver around barricades & other shooting positions. Velocity isn't a concern - typically, bbls longer than 16" will show the same or slightly less velocity than the 16", because powders used in .22LR ammo will almost always be completely burned within 16".

I'm not terribly experienced with CZ RF rifles - I own a 457 American & Varmint MTR. The American's bbl looked nice through a Hawkeye borescope, but it didn't shoot worth a hoot, producing very few 50yd groups under 1.5", regardless of what match ammo I tried in it. I pulled it and cut a fresh, clean 11* crown on the muzzle, which did improve accuracy some, but it still wasn't up to my standards. I wasn't expecting accuracy on the level of the custom bbl'd repeaters I have, but this wasn't even close. The MTR OTOH, has a tighter chamber, much closer to a true match chamber than any of the other versions of the 457. Not even the most expensive rifles in the line - the same rifle you're talking about with a Manners stock - shares the match chamber of the MTR. My MTR was far & away superior in accuracy compared to the American, in some instances shooting 10rd groups at 210yds not much larger than the custom bbls on my 40XB & V-22s. Eventually, I got tired of screwing with the American and re-barreled it with a Shilen selct match ratchet rifled bbl that I contoured to at least be close to the slim sporter bbl that came on it. I had to sand out the factory stock's bbl channel a fair amount, and the rifle now weighs just over 1/2lb more with the 23.5" Shilen than it did with the OEM 24.5" bbl. But now it's consistently a much better shooter than before. Based on reports from several other owners of the new CZ457s, there are quite a few more good shooters than lemons like mine was, so I wouldn't warn you to steer clear of the 457. They have an easily adjusted trigger that on average can safely be adjusted down to near 1lb, mine have both cycled, fed, extracted, and ejected 100%, and they're attractive rifles. If you happen to get a lemon where accuracy's concerned, you can send it back to CZ-USA. I've heard good things about their warranty repair station. Or, there are some aftermarket barrels of consistent quality available from a few sources. I'm so pleased with the accuracy of my American/Shilen that I'm fitting & chambering another one for the MTR.

Please keep us informed in how your quest for a good trainer turns out.

 

[AirGunShawn]

I've got Athlon Cronus 4.5-29x56 scopes on three .22RF precision bolt repeaters - jelrod-converted 40XB repeater, and two V-22 with sendero & kukri bbls, all in Manners T4A or PRS1 stocks. I've also got a V-22 carbine with 18" ACE Ranch contour in a Manners EH2; since this was meant to be a lighter walk-about .22, I went with a Midas TAC 6-24x50 on it. The Cronus scopes are awfully hard to beat for the money, with very good Japanese ED glass & excellent tracking. The first time I put one of these Cronus scopes on a .22 (1st precision .22 I built for myself, on a Stiller 2500XR action), I felt like it was over-kill compared to the 30mm Bushnell 6-24x50 ffp G2DMR I'd originally had on that rifle. It only took one range session with the Cronus to convince me not to go back to a lesser scope, and I've wound up putting Cronus scopes on every precision .22 repeater I've built since then, which includes a couple of converted 40X/XB repeaters and the two V-22s already mentioned. In the first place, the Bushnell had only 5 mils per revolution & no zero stop, which is a poor way to go for any .22RF that will be shot past 50yds. Cronus, Ares BTR & ETR, Midas TAC mil scopes all have 10 mils per rev, plus true zero stops, so are g-t-g for rimfire use. Plus they've all got good usable mil reticles. Both the Ares BTR & Midas TAC are within your $600 budget (Ares BTR 6-24x50 will be under $600 during Athlon's Memorial Day sale), and either one will work fine on the CZ. Main difference is that the Midas TAC doesn't have an illuminated reticle.

If I were you, I'd be looking for a Precision Trainer with the 20.5" bbl., especially if you intend to shoot suppressed more often than not. It'll balance nicely, and be easier to maneuver around barricades & other shooting positions. Velocity isn't a concern - typically, bbls longer than 16" will show the same or slightly less velocity than the 16", because powders used in .22LR ammo will almost always be completely burned within 16".

I'm not terribly experienced with CZ RF rifles - I own a 457 American & Varmint MTR. The American's bbl looked nice through a Hawkeye borescope, but it didn't shoot worth a hoot, producing very few 50yd groups under 1.5", regardless of what match ammo I tried in it. I pulled it and cut a fresh, clean 11* crown on the muzzle, which did improve accuracy some, but it still wasn't up to my standards. I wasn't expecting accuracy on the level of the custom bbl'd repeaters I have, but this wasn't even close. The MTR OTOH, has a tighter chamber, much closer to a true match chamber than any of the other versions of the 457. Not even the most expensive rifles in the line - the same rifle you're talking about with a Manners stock - shares the match chamber of the MTR. My MTR was far & away superior in accuracy compared to the American, in some instances shooting 10rd groups at 210yds not much larger than the custom bbls on my 40XB & V-22s. Eventually, I got tired of screwing with the American and re-barreled it with a Shilen selct match ratchet rifled bbl that I contoured to at least be close to the slim sporter bbl that came on it. I had to sand out the factory stock's bbl channel a fair amount, and the rifle now weighs just over 1/2lb more with the 23.5" Shilen than it did with the OEM 24.5" bbl. But now it's consistently a much better shooter than before. Based on reports from several other owners of the new CZ457s, there are quite a few more good shooters than lemons like mine was, so I wouldn't warn you to steer clear of the 457. They have an easily adjusted trigger that on average can safely be adjusted down to near 1lb, mine have both cycled, fed, extracted, and ejected 100%, and they're attractive rifles. If you happen to get a lemon where accuracy's concerned, you can send it back to CZ-USA. I've heard good things about their warranty repair station. Or, there are some aftermarket barrels of consistent quality available from a few sources. I'm so pleased with the accuracy of my American/Shilen that I'm fitting & chambering another one for the MTR.

Please keep us informed in how your quest for a good trainer turns out.

Dennis, I just got a CRONUS scope and my reticle has some issues. With the IR turned on, all of my numbers virtualy disappear
as do the dots below the horizontal reticle lines. Does yours do that?
Shawn

 

[AirGunShawn]

I've got Athlon Cronus 4.5-29x56 scopes on three .22RF precision bolt repeaters - jelrod-converted 40XB repeater, and two V-22 with sendero & kukri bbls, all in Manners T4A or PRS1 stocks. I've also got a V-22 carbine with 18" ACE Ranch contour in a Manners EH2; since this was meant to be a lighter walk-about .22, I went with a Midas TAC 6-24x50 on it. The Cronus scopes are awfully hard to beat for the money, with very good Japanese ED glass & excellent tracking. The first time I put one of these Cronus scopes on a .22 (1st precision .22 I built for myself, on a Stiller 2500XR action), I felt like it was over-kill compared to the 30mm Bushnell 6-24x50 ffp G2DMR I'd originally had on that rifle. It only took one range session with the Cronus to convince me not to go back to a lesser scope, and I've wound up putting Cronus scopes on every precision .22 repeater I've built since then, which includes a couple of converted 40X/XB repeaters and the two V-22s already mentioned. In the first place, the Bushnell had only 5 mils per revolution & no zero stop, which is a poor way to go for any .22RF that will be shot past 50yds. Cronus, Ares BTR & ETR, Midas TAC mil scopes all have 10 mils per rev, plus true zero stops, so are g-t-g for rimfire use. Plus they've all got good usable mil reticles. Both the Ares BTR & Midas TAC are within your $600 budget (Ares BTR 6-24x50 will be under $600 during Athlon's Memorial Day sale), and either one will work fine on the CZ. Main difference is that the Midas TAC doesn't have an illuminated reticle.

If I were you, I'd be looking for a Precision Trainer with the 20.5" bbl., especially if you intend to shoot suppressed more often than not. It'll balance nicely, and be easier to maneuver around barricades & other shooting positions. Velocity isn't a concern - typically, bbls longer than 16" will show the same or slightly less velocity than the 16", because powders used in .22LR ammo will almost always be completely burned within 16".

I'm not terribly experienced with CZ RF rifles - I own a 457 American & Varmint MTR. The American's bbl looked nice through a Hawkeye borescope, but it didn't shoot worth a hoot, producing very few 50yd groups under 1.5", regardless of what match ammo I tried in it. I pulled it and cut a fresh, clean 11* crown on the muzzle, which did improve accuracy some, but it still wasn't up to my standards. I wasn't expecting accuracy on the level of the custom bbl'd repeaters I have, but this wasn't even close. The MTR OTOH, has a tighter chamber, much closer to a true match chamber than any of the other versions of the 457. Not even the most expensive rifles in the line - the same rifle you're talking about with a Manners stock - shares the match chamber of the MTR. My MTR was far & away superior in accuracy compared to the American, in some instances shooting 10rd groups at 210yds not much larger than the custom bbls on my 40XB & V-22s. Eventually, I got tired of screwing with the American and re-barreled it with a Shilen selct match ratchet rifled bbl that I contoured to at least be close to the slim sporter bbl that came on it. I had to sand out the factory stock's bbl channel a fair amount, and the rifle now weighs just over 1/2lb more with the 23.5" Shilen than it did with the OEM 24.5" bbl. But now it's consistently a much better shooter than before. Based on reports from several other owners of the new CZ457s, there are quite a few more good shooters than lemons like mine was, so I wouldn't warn you to steer clear of the 457. They have an easily adjusted trigger that on average can safely be adjusted down to near 1lb, mine have both cycled, fed, extracted, and ejected 100%, and they're attractive rifles. If you happen to get a lemon where accuracy's concerned, you can send it back to CZ-USA. I've heard good things about their warranty repair station. Or, there are some aftermarket barrels of consistent quality available from a few sources. I'm so pleased with the accuracy of my American/Shilen that I'm fitting & chambering another one for the MTR.

Please keep us informed in how your quest for a good trainer turns out.

Dennis, This week I had time to shoot my CZ 457 MTR and this is what I got using SK yellow box. I did not have the tuner on her and she is basically a stock gun except the trigger. It has a YoDave spring kit that brings it down to 9oz. That is 30shots at 50yds. The missed ones where all me. btw.... that bolt knob makes the rifle a joy to shoot. It is an AREA 419 knob and rail.

 

[AirGunShawn]

A 22lr shot is hard to see at 100-200yds, I think you will be left wanting with a 1-5x scope. I always suggest the most mag you can get, but it doesn't mean you have to use it all the time. It is a lot easier to shoot it, when you can see the target, but more importantly, see where you are hitting and missing.
My favorite is an Athlon Cronus 4.5-29 which can be had around $900 used, but the Ares BTR 4.5-27 is a solid scope at <$600. I would suggest it if that is your limit. Some of my best scores have been with my Cronus. I thought I liked 4-16 until I used 5-25, and could never go lower now.

I need your help. I just got a CRONUS and when I turn on the IR, the numbers all disappear. That is not normal is it??
all of the other Athlons that I have don't do that. thanks so much.... Shawn

 

[flatland1]

I need your help. I just got a CRONUS and when I turn on the IR, the numbers all disappear. That is not normal is it??
all of the other Athlons that I have don't do that. thanks so much.... Shawn

Shawn,
No, the numbers aren't illuminated, so that's normal. If you've got the illumination turned on low enough so that it doesn't glare so much that it masks the numbers, you can still see them - they're just not illuminated.

 

[AirGunShawn]

Shawn,
No, the numbers aren't illuminated, so that's normal. If you've got the illumination turned on low enough so that it doesn't glare so much that it masks the numbers, you can still see them - they're just not illuminated.

Dennis, If I just cant stand the scope that way, what would you buy that is better than the Cronus but similar in function. My eyes cant pick up super fine reticles any longer.

 

[Skok3y]

Shawn,
No, the numbers aren't illuminated, so that's normal. If you've got the illumination turned on low enough so that it doesn't glare so much that it masks the numbers, you can still see them - they're just not illuminated.

^^^^^ This.

 

[Skok3y]

Dennis, If I just cant stand the scope that way, what would you buy that is better than the Cronus but similar in function. My eyes cant pick up super fine reticles any longer.

If I were recommending scopes in the same price range and similar magnification... The Vortex Razer is of a similar quality, but the side focus doesn’t go as low, and even used, it isn’t as inexpensive as the Athlon.
The Delta Stryker and Trijicon Accupower are both very similar to the Cronus and I believe made at the same plant. They basically give you different reticle options that I believe fully light up. The problem there is that you never see any of them used, so you are stuck buying new. There is a really good thread in here somewhere that a guy created a spreadsheet with a bunch of different scopes and their specs. It might be of help if you can find it.

 

[AirGunShawn]

If I were recommending scopes in the same price range and similar magnification... The Vortex Razer is of a similar quality, but the side focus doesn’t go as low, and even used, it isn’t as inexpensive as the Athlon.
The Delta Stryker and Trijicon Accupower are both very similar to the Cronus and I believe made at the same plant. They basically give you different reticle options that I believe fully light up. The problem there is that you never see any of them used, so you are stuck buying new. There is a really good thread in here somewhere that a guy created a spreadsheet with a bunch of different scopes and their specs. It might be of help if you can find it.

Lets assume that we keep the function and forget the price. It is after all going on a new Vudoo rifle. To be honest, I would prefer higher power.

 

[billmeek]

Earlier in this thread I suggested the Athlon Midas TAC. Rather than ordering a third Midas TAC, just today I ordered an Athlon Ares BTR 4.5-27x50 with the same APLR3 MIL reticle. I would have stayed with the Midas TAC, but the current deal from Doug at CameraLandNY (a Sniper's Hide Sponsor) on the Ares BTR was too good to pass up since it's a lower price right now than the Midas TAC.

 

[Skok3y]

Lets assume that we keep the function and forget the price. It is after all going on a new Vudoo rifle. To be honest, I would prefer higher power.

If you want higher power and you want to keep PPF, the price goes WAY up from here. The NF 7-35 is an option and is highly respected in this realm, but you are also looking at amidst $3k. I had a S&B 12-50 FFP, which is in the same ballpark as the NF. I personally didn’t feel like it was worth the extra expense for me, but was an amazing scope. March has several FFP scopes in 5-40 that are $2600-2800. I’ve never owned one, but they are well respected.

If you want high mag, and want to go SFP, the price is significantly cheaper. You have to ask yourself how you plan to use it, and if you want to dial more often for your distance changes. It sounded like you have tried an SIII10-50. They are well respected, mostly due to the lower price. I think the Vortex Golden Eagle is a much better scope for a few hundred more. The SV is an option and is better than the SIII, but the non ED version twice as expensive. The ED version is supposed to be amazing, but I haven’t tried it and it is then several hundred more. The NG Comp is an option that is well respected around $1900, but I have been scared away, and stuck with the Sightron and Vortex. March again is a popular option.

There are lots of options. The scope forum is great. Make sure the scope focuses as close as you need, would suggest at least down to 25. Make sure you like the reticle!! Should be the very next item. Know whether you like a dot or cross, need the Christmas tree, etc. Think about SFP of FFP. It sounds like you are like me and like a thicker reticle, which is one reason I like FFP at High mag. Determine your high end mag needs. Then look at brand. I think the reticle makes a huge difference, and I can get by with FFP or SFP for my needs, but make sure you are ok either way. If I was doing the quick target changes, I would definitely stick to FFP. And then make sure that paying that price to have FFP and high mag is worth it to you.

I personally really want to try the NF 7-35, but can’t bring myself to pay that. I don’t like the March reticles, so they are out for me too, as I don’t like the dot. That is why I have gone back to the Cronus so much.

 

[billmeek]

I installed the Athlon Ares BTR 4.5-27x50 on one of my 22 rifles today. I wish I'd spent the little extra money bought the Midas TAC instead. The turrets are crap in my opinion. You can barely feel them compared to the Midas TAC.

 

[way121901]

I installed the Athlon Ares BTR 4.5-27x50 on one of my 22 rifles today. I wish I'd spent the little extra money bought the Midas TAC instead. The turrets are crap in my opinion. You can barely feel them compared to the Midas TAC.

Having same issue with turrets on the Ares BTR one of the guys on the forum pointed me to a article about the Ares scope and in the article it says removing the O ring I haven’t tried it yet. I also have Midas Tac it’s a good scope turrets are much better.

 

[billmeek]

Thanks! I'll give the o-ring removal a try.

 

[way121901]

FYI for those people who have the Athlon Ares BTR and prob any other Athlon scope with no audible clicks and is also mushy turrets I took the elevation cap off and found that there was no heavy amount of grease on the O ring so I took the o ring off to see if it made any difference in the feel and sound when turning the turrets back and fourth and it did make a difference but not 100% my only issue with not using the o ring know dirt or whatever else can get inside of the turret. Prob won’t be a big deal but when you have a scope close to 900$ you would want to be carful with it especially me I have OCD everything I own I take good care of that being said I guess I’m just going to deal with it.