Night Vision Flir LS64 as a Rifle Mounted scope

[dumbbell]

Has anyone seen this idea or tried it or have enough advanced knowledge to know whether it will work or not? I love my ls64, and would like to use it as a thermal aiming device, but don't know if its possible. What say you?

Copied and pasted from : How to Use FLIR Thermal Night Vision While Hunting:

Rifle mounted flir scope:

The FLIR unit: a PS32 would work fine, but to get closer to the military cores I’d be looking to use an LS64. With a 604×512 pixel detector, 30hz output, and 1-4x magnification, its a far more functional unit.

The Mounts: Because FLIR units have a tripod thread on the base; a mount transitioning to a picatinny rail attachment would be necessary. Something like the Ashbury Precision CLRF-LRTI has the elevation and windage adjustments to subtly shift the FLIR unit’s output. Which could feasibly mean zeroing with the laser as well. In addition you would likely need a small rail riser for our final component . . .

The Sight: A FLIR unit can’t look through or into a scope, but a scope can look into a FLIR unit. Something like a Trijicon 1.5×16 scope, or perhaps a 3×30 sized optic would be small enough to fit comfortably behind the FLIR unit and transmit both a reticle and thermal image to the user. The key issue here is going to be focus, to make sure your eye can focus on the scope’s reticle and the thermal imager’s screen at the same time. All the FLIR unit’s do have a diopter adjustment, it’s just a matter of lining everything up.

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

I don't believe it would work. With the ps32 I really do t think it would work. It seems to me that the scope wouldn't be actually be focusing on the target through the glass but it would be focusing on a tv screen just a few inches away. If it would work it would be awesome but I don't see it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[dumbbell]

I wish it would work, but i think you are right. I just wanted to put it out there so others can help me understand why it probably wont work.

 

[Embossed]

Hi,

Maybe if you contact Flir they can program the core fore you with rectile.
The tau core can be programmed with rectile.The rest is up to you when possible.


Remco

 

[dumbbell]

Not a bad idea emb. I will check on that tomorrow. Anyone else? Come on skypup, ir-v. I know one of you will have an idea.

 

[mikeltee]

Daaaaaaaouble post sorry

 

[mikeltee]

I think it would work. The new pulsar dfa75 works on the same concept. The scope views the DFAs screen for the sight picture. I have read nothing but good reviews on it so I say give it a shot. Of course you are limited in magnification to the resolution of the screen, so the 64 would be a heck of a lot better than the 32. The DFA outputs a 640x480 resolution if I'm not mistaken, which is identical to the LS64.

You obviously need a scope that can focus real close. I'm a passionate photography enthusiast and it seems that the wide angle glass focuses a lot closer that the magnification lenses. You would probably want an illuminated scope as well so that the reticle does not wash out. I think an Eotech would probably work well for this, and don't forget you get a 4x mag option with the LS64. I think the hardest part of the equation would be finding the zero on the screen which would take a damn good adjustable mount.

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

I wish this was possible with the ps32! I'm picking mine up in a few days!

 

[dumbbell]

Thanks Mike. The mount from APO would probably work, but its expensive, plus i will have to buy another scope to look into the ls64. So, im trying to reason this out before i spend 1500 on a flir mount and scope. Do you think i would be better off using a 1x scope or a 1.5x up to maybe a 3x to look into the flir? The article mentioned a 1.5 scope and i was thinking about using it.

 

[mikeltee]

I would use a 1x. Any higher mag would just be zooming in on the screen. I'd set the flir to magnify before Id set the scope.

 

[mikeltee]

I would call Flir and make sure your unit can handle the recoil. Let us know how it goes. I just snagged a PS32 for dirt cheap.

 

[Embossed]

Hello,

You can try a occulair booster for the Flir.

Remco

 

[jdr724]

It's ability to do this would require it having a magnification setting where the pixels display a true horizontal/vertical proportionation of the actual image.(most likely 1x)(got this from another member who posted here)

If so then you would need to use the imager at that magnification and at a maximum go up to 4x on the day optic.

 

[Embossed]

Hi,

I hope you can open the link down onder.




http://www.gross24.de/nachtsichtfor...39&h=5ea62c5b3c5d67dc1a090981600f5c08898761dd

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

If it is possible to use a unit like this I would think it would be very important to have a higher Hz unit. The delay would = miss. Maybe a ps32 would work but a running shot would be a no no I would think.

 

[dumbbell]

It's ability to do this would require it having a magnification setting where the pixels display a true horizontal/vertical proportionation of the actual image.(most likely 1x)(got this from another member who posted here)

If so then you would need to use the imager at that magnification and at a maximum go up to 4x on the day optic.

JDR, that makes sense. I am starting to realize from all of this that i will probably be better off saving my duckets for a t50 or something. Never hurts to ask whats possible tho.

 

[jdr724]

I know money doesn't grow on trees but if you're really going to use it, the LS for scanning and clip on for shooting is such a pleasure.

 

[dumbbell]

No doubt man. If only money and patience grew on the same tree...

 

[TV-PressPass]

It seems to me like it could be done. Your shift between POA and POI would be the key thing to test.

I use my Vortex Razor 1-6 behind a Clip on NV system like this:

I've held my LS64 in front where the NV system is, and my reticle and the thermal image will be in focus with a little diopter adjustment. However I don't currently have a permanent mount like the APO system, so I can't actually fire the rifle and check those shifts. But I think I'm going to have to pick one up and try it out.

Ashbury Electro-Optic Rail Mount (CLRF-LRTI) - Ashbury Precision Ordnance

 

[Hard_ware]

I contacted Peter @flir, they would not add the reticle overlay.

They said

"We cannot provide service you request.This would turn it into a weapons sight, currently illegal in most states, for civilian users.

Peter Taylor".

So help from flir is a no go, it would be so simple with a reticle overlay in the flir. So on to step 2, working on a mount with a riser rail to attache the 1/4 -20 screw hole and a 34mm scope ring to hold the eyepiece, should make it very steady. I will take the video out ( two inner pins on the bottom)and feed a small DVR that has a screen overlay generator attached and powered from the video input from the dvr(where you would hook up a pin hole camera). The dvr would provide power to the overlay generator about the same milliamps as the camera would have used. The dvr will have the video image from the flir plus an adjustable/ custom overlay whatever reticle you could imagine. I have the dvr and it works great, and the video overlay should be here any day. I plan on having the reticle display supersonic poi, and subsonic poi at 25 50 75 100 125 150 yds. Here is the overlay ic only the 28 pin dip is needed the carrier board will be removed and the 4 switches and osd chip will be placed in a molded case integrated with the dvr. I have the software for the OSD chip and have made several reticles to try. Up to 15 reticles can be stored and recalled. Software would need to be tweaked to make switching between reticles a single button push up or down, but I will cross that bridge after prototype is working.

Intuitive Circuits, LLC. - Text Inserters and Video Overlay Products
Surveille KS 650M Mini HD Pinhole Portable Camera Camcorder DVR Video Recorder | eBay

 

[Bennybone]

I contacted Peter @flir, they would not add the reticle overlay.

They said

"We cannot provide service you request.This would turn it into a weapons sight, currently illegal in most states, for civilian users.

Peter Taylor".

So help from flir is a no go, it would be so simple with a reticle overlay in the flir. So on to step 2, working on a mount with a riser rail to attache the 1/4 -20 screw hole and a 34mm scope ring to hold the eyepiece, should make it very steady. I will take the video out ( two inner pins on the bottom)and feed a small DVR that has a screen overlay generator attached and powered from the video input from the dvr(where you would hook up a pin hole camera). The dvr would provide power to the overlay generator about the same milliamps as the camera would have used. The dvr will have the video image from the flir plus an adjustable/ custom overlay whatever reticle you could imagine. I have the dvr and it works great, and the video overlay should be here any day. I plan on having the reticle display supersonic poi, and subsonic poi at 25 50 75 100 125 150 yds. Here is the overlay ic only the 28 pin dip is needed the carrier board will be removed and the 4 switches and osd chip will be placed in a molded case integrated with the dvr. I have the software for the OSD chip and have made several reticles to try. Up to 15 reticles can be stored and recalled. Software would need to be tweaked to make switching between reticles a single button push up or down, but I will cross that bridge after prototype is working.

Intuitive Circuits, LLC. - Text Inserters and Video Overlay Products
Surveille KS 650M Mini HD Pinhole Portable Camera Camcorder DVR Video Recorder | eBay

Hard_ware

Interesting idea, so you plan to mount the overlay card into the KS-650M, while you're in there do you plan to add a mic because that DVR doesn't record audio, the ports aren't connected and the holes on the outter casings are dummy.

Anyhow once you overlay the reticle onto the video it won't actually be visible on the video screen of the FLIR, instead it is overlaying the video on the composite video output. So you will see the reticle on the DVR screen but not the FLIR.

Do you plan to shoot using the DVR screen?

BB

 

[Hard_ware]

Yes, the dvr with a lcd viewfinder attached will be the eyepiece, sold on ebay for under $20. Having a reticle on the flir would be nice, but I want to record the video as well. I thought about the mic, but want to get a working unit to see if its what I want. I have been thinking about selling the dvr and ls64 and buying a thor 4.5x thermal. But not having to spend the $$$ on batteries for the thermal is nice Plus if it does the job I have saved a few $$$ as well. I am setting it up with the ps24 for the franken thermal scope, then will swap it out for the ls64 if it works good. Interfacing a laser range finder via hot shoe to the OSD overlay is next on the list if everything works I shoot ar15 with homemade form 1 suppressor with subsonic handloads for raccoons and small critters to not spook off any critters coming in to a caller, having a custom reticle with poi for the subs at different ranges out to 150yds will be nice. The super's are pretty flat out to 200yds with a 75 yds zero. The unit records audio and video with the pinhole camera that comes with it. If i hook up mic it will do both.

 

[Bennybone]

H_W,

It should work out, cable management and holding the LCD still enough to offset resolution will be the keys.

I have been using the KS-650m for about 8 months and I am not impressed, I like the price but it doesn't seem to work right all of the time. For example you use the menu setting to select 640x480 or 800x600 resolution - ok select the higher. You go right back into the setting to confirm and it is back to 640x480. Same with FPS (25 vs 30). My videos do not appear as crisp as they do with another recorder I have used. YMMV.

I have not found a product yet that has an integrated laser rangefinder tied into the OSD, that would be an absolute advantage in the field. For years I have thought why not? I suppose the Burris Eliminator can do it but the display on that scope isn't NV friendly...

If you trip up on another sub 100.00 DVR that appears to get the job done let me know.

Thx,

BB

 

[Hard_ware]

The dvr is a low end unit, but composite video is a low end signal 640x480 is max resolution of composite video. The dvr will be mounted via a picatinny mount all components mounted on the same rail. The lcd output from the view finder should be BCD that can be fed into the atmega chip on the osd board. If everything works I will tackle that. I have my range finder with a led so I can read the distance at night, I use the NV to verify the laser is painting the target, a quick blink means it determined the range, when it keeps blinking it is having trouble resolving the range.

 

[Hard_ware]

Here are the pieces.

I need to install into aluminium case and mount on rifle and test on some critters. Reticle holds center while zoom up to 6x.
Uploaded video of dvr and ls64 handheld. Video looks much better on computer, uploaded to photobucket.
[video]http://s1073.photobucket.com/user/Hard_ware/media/ls64osd_zps16c82f3e.mp4.html[/video]

 

[Hard_ware]

Need to get one of these to complete

 

[Bennybone]

I think it is slick how you put the reticle layover board behind the DVR in the housing but when you slap the viewfinder on how will you recharge the DVRs battery?

Also how are you adjusting windage and elevation?

Will this be a subsonic only setup or will you shoot supersonic ammo in the test?

Thx,

BB

 

[Hard_ware]

I have a port on the side to connect USB to download videos and charge. The scope ring on the eyepiece has screws on each side to adjust windage, I used a feeler gauge shim to set elevation for prototype, full power loads. I will design a simple aluminium mount with the Windage and elevation built in, and contacts to pass video to dvr/eyepiece when connected. I will setup a circuit to auto power on the dvr when video signal is present. This should allow the eyepiece to snap in place for using the dvr, or remove it and unlatch the QD mounts to use the flir as a handheld like normal, except for the small rifle mount attached to connect to the rifle, should not have any wires visible will be in small channel running to small gold plated recessed contacts by eyepiece where the dvr will snap in and connect to video. I like the fact that having a 640x512 rifle scope for $5300.00 and not needing batteries vs +$9k for 640x480 rifle scope.

 

[Bennybone]

I hope vendors are taking note of your useful implementations....

Watching intently, thanks!

BB

 

[Bennybone]

H_W -

Any update on the test firing and project?

Thx,

BB

 

[Absolution]

That's fucking slick. Congrats!

 

[Hard_ware]

Added internal mic to dvr to record audio as well. Been raining and have not had a chance to get some footage firing at critters. We needed the rain, so hope is starts drying up this week so I can test it out. I removed the scope ring and added a thermo plastic ring mount to add windage and elevation adjustments. I co witnessed the reticle with a laser I keep mounted to the ar15. I also added the viewfinder to the dvr, it adds 2.5x zoom. Looking thru eyepiece is better then the 2x ezoom on the flir, using the ls64 zoom at 2x is like a 5x scope, using the 4x zoom is like 10x. I can't wait to find some critters

 

[Hard_ware]

Here is rev 4

Have video at this link DVR with sound?? | Page 3 | Lone Star Boars

 

[SkyPup]

Fantastic work!