Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

[AskDrTodd]

I'm trying to find a good all-in-one round (hunting small/medium game, target shooting, semi auto rifle) for the AR platform. I hear great things about Rob and his uppers chambered in 6mm, and great things about the 6mmAR Turbo 40 round, which has me all but sold. My concern is that I live in a condo in Florida, and have no room (and with my job unfortunately no time) to hand load cartridges, so I need to be able to purchase ammo from someone. You gents are a wealth of knowledge, and I appreciate your input here.

Most of my target shooting will be around 300 yards, but there is a 1000 yard range about an hour from here, and it would be lots of fun to be able to shoot out there on occasion.

Is the grendel the best bet for me because of reasonably good accuracy and availability (and diversity of) ammo? What do you guys recommend for a scope in the 1000 dollar range (gently used perhaps if it's slightly more than that) that is a good optic for this round? I was thinking something along the lines of a 5-20x50 or 4-16x50, maybe a leupy mk4?

Do you guys like the Monarch? It looks like a quality optic.

Thanks for the input!!!

 

[Mr_Brass]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

223 with 75gr superformance. or if you can handload run the 223 with 75gr BTHPs and 25gr of varget. another option if you look into the 223 with this loading is K&A ammunition.

We are looking at running a 75gr BTHP at the critical number of 2900 FPS.

I was looking at a 6.5g but looking at the ballistics and cost of ammo and rifle I like my 223 with a 75gr pill.

and for optics look into vortex. I just got one of their scopes and love it. looks to be a very very good scope.

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

If you're buying your ammo you can't beat .308. There are far more ammo choices out there than any other caliber and it has the punch you need for hunting everything from swamp deer to elk with extreme accuracy as icing on the cake. If you buy ammo in bulk it is very cheap.

 

[bengates]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

As much as I'm a Grendel fan, I agree with BattleAxe - the .308 might be whay you're looking for. Of course you may just be wanting a boutique round that fits on the AR-15 platform, so my vote is the Grendel.

For $1000, I would also look at a used IOR. They're solid scopes, good glass, and repeatable.

my 2 cents

 

[AskDrTodd]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

Isn't the BC higher on the 6.5 than the .308? With substantially reduced recoil? And it'll work with a standard AR15 lower because the OAL of the round is almost the same as the .223? I won't be hand-loading anything, have to work with commercially available ammo.

 

[Mr_Brass]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

if you want to stay in a AR 15 lower half go with the 6.5g or 223 with the 75gr BTHP match.

 

[AskDrTodd]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

How about glass, the LEUPOLD MARK 4 LR/T 6.5-20X50mm M1 KNOBS MIL-DOT #54680 looks like a good pick, no?

 

[Mr_Brass]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AskDrTodd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about glass, the LEUPOLD MARK 4 LR/T 6.5-20X50mm M1 KNOBS MIL-DOT #54680 looks like a good pick, no? </div></div>

I'm not very familiar with this scope becuase its way out of my price range but I can recommend

http://swfa.com/Vortex-65-20x50-Viper-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P13287.aspx

being nearly 1000 bucks cheaper will give you great glass and more money for ammo, range fees, rifle upgrades and so forth. I will be building another 223 upper soon and that's the scope it will be getting. my current bushmaster varminter has a vortex crossfire and I like the scope but would rather a vortex viper.

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

An 8 twist 223 caliber A3 varmint upper from WOA, RRA, or DPMS
Any good lower: Bushmaster, RRA, DPMS, Sundevil........
A2 butt
Carbon Fiber free float tube with sling stud
Bipod
Mark 4 or VXIII 30m/m
Aluminum rings medium
RRA National match trigger for a good deal
Geissele for an expensive but best trigger imo
Federal Gold Medal Match 77 grain ammo
Or get the whole gun from RND www.rndrifles.com

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

With due respect, I wouldn't get either. A do all, be all chambering is the sort of critter seen only by cryptozoologists. Get a .223, and have a myriad selection of relatively easy to acquire ammo selections. Then get a .308 bolt rifle.

You'll be a lot happier for not having to make any compromise.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With due respect, I wouldn't get either. A do all, be all chambering is the sort of critter seen only by cryptozoologists. Get a .223, and have a myriad selection of relatively easy to acquire ammo selections. Then get a .308 bolt rifle.

You'll be a lot happier for not having to make any compromise. </div></div>

This is great advice, especially if you don't reload and don't plan to reload anytime soon. Good .223 and .308 ammunition can be had much cheaper than factory ammunition for the other calibers you listed.

If you plan to be serious about target shooting, I'd say it's safe to assume you would expend at least 1000 rounds in a year depending on how often you get to the range, or at the most in 2 years.

Once you factor in the cost of feeding the gun, the cost of the more expensive custom rounds will quickly mean that you could have bought a second gun and come out ahead.

I think if you get an AR in .223 with a good quality barrel in the 18 to 20 inch range and then get a good bolt gun in .308, you would get a lot further, a lot cheaper in practice and skill level.

Then once you are ready to reload, get something in one of the other calibers you mentioned.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: W54/XM-388</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With due respect, I wouldn't get either. A do all, be all chambering is the sort of critter seen only by cryptozoologists. Get a .223, and have a myriad selection of relatively easy to acquire ammo selections. Then get a .308 bolt rifle.

You'll be a lot happier for not having to make any compromise. </div></div>

This is great advice, especially if you don't reload and don't plan to reload anytime soon. Good .223 and .308 ammunition can be had much cheaper than factory ammunition for the other calibers you listed.

If you plan to be serious about target shooting, I'd say it's safe to assume you would expend at least 1000 rounds in a year depending on how often you get to the range, or at the most in 2 years.

Once you factor in the cost of feeding the gun, the cost of the more expensive custom rounds will quickly mean that you could have bought a second gun and come out ahead.

I think if you get an AR in .223 with a good quality barrel in the 18 to 20 inch range and then get a good bolt gun in .308, you would get a lot further, a lot cheaper in practice and skill level.

Then once you are ready to reload, get something in one of the other calibers you mentioned.</div></div>

You can go with the easier to acquire .223 and .308 or you could go with the Grendel that can punch 1k readily from an AR-15 platform. You can also punch 1k with a long barreled tight twisted .223/5.56mm using 75 and 77 gr. BTHP's (Hornady, Sierra and Nosler). But it's going to come in third to the Grendel.

For going out and just generally target shooting surplus 5.56 will fit the bill most of the time. However, I wouldn't count on it to practice with and think you are going to get better. You would need to get match grade ammo for that. The .223/5.56 and .308 have boxes of match grade available from $16.00-$30.00. And that is in a lot of stores again. (You couldn't find .308 here for two years almost. 5.56 was also really scarce.) 6.5 Grendel ammo you have to order. But, AA has it in stock and so does MidwayUSA. Just shop around on the internet and you can find some better deals.

IMO, the only way to get any of this done right is to reload yourself. You've got all the room you need in an apartment, you just have to get rid of the other junk.

 

[AskDrTodd]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

but... but... half MOA and it does this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwtOBLrmLiw

How much does a reloading set-up cost? The heaviest bullets I've seen for a 6mmAR T40 are like ~110gr, the grendel goes up past 130 if I'm not mistaken, and has readily available Wolf ammo for plinking, Lapua for target shooting, and a handful of others for hunting!

 

[northern50]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

I love my new DPMS 16" heavy barrel AR. I've been shooting 76 gr. bthp's infront of 24.5 gr. of varget seated at mag length and it shoots amazing. I was shooting at 450 yards a few weeks ago with it and it seemed way too easy.

I wouldn't hesitate going the .223 route.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AskDrTodd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but... but... half MOA and it does this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwtOBLrmLiw

How much does a reloading set-up cost? The heaviest bullets I've seen for a 6mmAR T40 are like ~110gr, the grendel goes up past 130 if I'm not mistaken, and has readily available Wolf ammo for plinking, Lapua for target shooting, and a handful of others for hunting!</div></div>

I hope you saw in the video the shot was only like forty yards or so. Yes the Grendel is a powerful enough round to kill a buffalo if you put the bullet in the right spot. So is a .223/5.56. And a host of other small cartridges. If hunting an animal that size I do hope you consider a .308 or one of the WSM's in an AR-10 platform. However, if you plan on sticking to deer and hogs the 6.5G is an excellent round. That's just my $.02

One thing I forgot to say was that you aren't going to readily find 6mmAR/Turbo ammunition. You had better give a pretty good lead time to get the ammo ordered and to you. Again, availability right now totally goes to the .223 or .308 But, you could also consider a .243 or .260 in the -10 platform. Both give a massive improvement in ballistics over the 6.5 and the .308 with the right bullets. And each has a very good selection of hunting bullets.

 

[Grump]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

Barrel life will most likely be longer with the Grendel.

I played with one (not mine) for almost a year, through two barrels (rifling mysteriously stripped off mid-barrel...??? I say bad steel, blowing dust on one day under those conditions could NEVER put that much grit inside and stick ONLY mid-barrel...).

We couldn't get much less than 1 MOA with any consistency, and way too much 1.25 MOA, and a maddening tendency to "two-group" bughole groups separated by 3/8-1/2 inch. Hard to trust a zero with a group like that.

IMO, 123-grain bullets are the limit with the Grendel.

And for accuracy, that silly mousegun upper just might not be up to reliably supporting a 24-inch barrel. I'm tempted to try it myself sometime, but with a 20- or 22-inch tube and slightly lighter barrel profile.

To me the Grendel is a better choice than 77-gr .223 loads, because it *does* hit harder, noticeably so at 200 and farther out. I'm thinking the 108-grain bullets, being a bit faster, would do what I want it to.

But it's definitely a reloader's caliber.

 

[AK10mm]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Barrel life will most likely be longer with the Grendel.

I played with one (not mine) for almost a year, through two barrels (rifling mysteriously stripped off mid-barrel...??? I say bad steel, blowing dust on one day under those conditions could NEVER put that much grit inside and stick ONLY mid-barrel...).

We couldn't get much less than 1 MOA with any consistency, and way too much 1.25 MOA, and a maddening tendency to "two-group" bughole groups separated by 3/8-1/2 inch. Hard to trust a zero with a group like that.

IMO, 123-grain bullets are the limit with the Grendel.

And for accuracy, that silly mousegun upper just might not be up to reliably supporting a 24-inch barrel. I'm tempted to try it myself sometime, but with a 20- or 22-inch tube and slightly lighter barrel profile.

To me the Grendel is a better choice than 77-gr .223 loads, because it *does* hit harder, noticeably so at 200 and farther out. I'm thinking the 108-grain bullets, being a bit faster, would do what I want it to.

But it's definitely a reloader's caliber. </div></div>

What kind of barrel were you using ? I have another AR15 ready to go minus a barrel and bolt and was seriously considering a 6.5 Grendel for it.Wanted to use the 123gr and possibly the 90gr TNT for Crows as they don't let you get much closer than 400+ yds out in the open country.A 20" HB was what I was thinking.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

I seriously doubt many folks on this site are as paranoid about bore life as I am. I shoot .223 and shot .308 until I switched to .260.

The Grendel's capabilities, IMHO, are oversold, the chambering suffers from propretary restrictions, and reasonably priced/effective factory ammo is not easily found on the local shelf. Necking up a 6PPC to 6.5mm; OK, it's not a wild stretch of the imagination. But the basic case capacity is not compelling for anything I'd be wanting to shoot beyond short/mid range.

6mmAR-T40? Wazzat anyway?

Tout 'em if you like, I'm not getting in either line.

 

[Mr_Brass]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

24" 1X9 bushmaster varmint special. kicks 75gr BTHPs (77gr has to much drag in the BC department) out at 2900FPS and its about 36 MOA drop at a grand and 250 ft/lb. that's not to bad for $18-$22 a box of 20. how much is a box of 6.5g going for these days? $25 to $35 a box?

And when you consider the fact that that 2900 FPS figure came from a 20inch bbl in my 24 I'm probably getting close to 2950 or more.

get yourself a 1X9 or 1X8 24inch 223 and get some 75gr superformance or K&A 75gr match.

for the money that's going to be one of your best bets I think.

 

[Surffshr]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AskDrTodd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> have no room (and with my job unfortunately no time) to hand load cartridges, so I need to be able to purchase ammo from someone. </div></div>

IMHO this will rule out the 6.5G...maybe the other one too. I think I had 3 rifles all together in the 6.5g. AA probably has 6.5G in stock that you can order, and for $1+ per round they shoot OK. Limited factory options, most ammo out of stock, and picking up $.75/per brass overshadowed the performance difference over a 5.56 for me. Very frustrating not being able to buy factory ammo in 99% of the shops I went to. Maybe the supply is better now, but w/o reloading you will be dependent on a few suppliers(no the case with .223).

Now if you do go 6.5G, try the 120 Nosler BTs first. This bullet kicked ass on deer, and both factory and handloads shot well in all my rifles. To 300 it will be very good. 1,000 yds with this round is on paper only. Just for fun, you can fling lead with a .223 and not scroung in the dirt for your brass.

 

[Unknown]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

I have gone through a bunch of 5.56's, 308's, and now on Grendel #3. All are wonderful cartridges. I think you have already eliminated the Turbo because you want to be able to buy ammo, and can't handload. And if, as you said, it has to fit into an AR-15, then it has to be the Grendel, or 5.56.

The Grendel has a far better BC than either the 5.56, or most 308 bullets (unless you get 200 grains and over.

My Grendels are loaded with a 123 grain Lapua Scenar at 2550 fps. It feels like it has about 20% more recoil than a 5.56, yet it hits with about 80% of the energy of a 308. There are a lot of people who try and hot load the Grendel to turn it into something like a 6.5x55, and that is a big mistake. Treat the Grendel as the intermediate cartridge that it is, and you will be really pleased with it.

The load I'm shooting doesn't go subsonic until around 1300-1400 yards, so you could easily shoot it at 1000 yards.

As for Glass, try the samplelist.com site for scopes that were demo's by the manufacturer to save money, or try elitedealseeker.com and it will check various postings to look for what you want. About 6 months ago I got a 3.5-10x40 Leupold Mk4 for around $650 new.. For 1000 yards you will probably want more power in your scope, but my point is that deals are out there.

 

[bengates]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

I'm not sure about Florida, but in Colorado you have to have at least a .243 cal to hunt. So, the .223 may not be viable for him. The grendel is neato, but the .308 is so tried and true - especially if you want off the shelf ammo! I can't find Grendel ammo anywhere around me.

All this being said, I still love my Grendel! It doesn't take the place of my .308, but it's just a really great round and fun to shoot.

 

[BERTMAN77MK2]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

UNKNOWN HAD SOME GREAT INFO--dont knock the Grendel until u try it or any of the 6mm's---Cabela's, AA, Midway,Les Baer,Hornady,
and Black Hills all produce ammo in 6.5 Grendel---and everyone knows that Lapua makes great brass--Wolf has 2 loadings that are not difficult to locate--more powerful 6.5's have their place
but don't fit in an AR15--when REMINGTON chambers and makes ammo the masses will shoot Grendel and extoll its virtues

 

[Grump]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

Sandrat:

It was a 24-inch barrel. I just suspect that the receiver is not up to supporting a barrel that long & heavy, even with all the Loc-tite.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sandrat:

It was a 24-inch barrel. I just suspect that the receiver is not up to supporting a barrel that long & heavy, even with all the Loc-tite.</div></div>

It supports it just fine. In both 6.5 Grendel and 5.56.

 

[widnerkj]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

get your grendel, and a lee hand loader. your appt has all the room you need to get it done.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: widnerkj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">get your grendel, and a lee hand loader. your appt has all the room you need to get it done.</div></div>

I'm thinking the handloader is not going to be enough to do the Grendel cases. Unless of course you keep loads to an absolute minimum. As fired from an AR the cases are going to expand and that is a lot of brass to squeeze back down with a Lee Handloader.

But, I will say, all you need with a press is about 24" along any workbench in the house.

 

[sititunga]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

If you want to be different and you're a reloader go for the Turbo 40 Improved. Whitley builds super accurate ARs. If you want to be really really different you might want to consider the 6mm BRX.

 

[Grump]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

No reloading = Grendel and modified/purpose-built mags. You just have to mail-order the ammo--which works out cheaper than your local shop anyway. Plus you won't have to mix with the masses to buy gun food.

 

[SRT_Supply]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: widnerkj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">get your grendel, and a lee hand loader. your appt has all the room you need to get it done.</div></div>

This.

I can fit almost my entire reloading setup into a box about 18" x 18" x 6" (minus the tumbler). All I need is about a foot or so of free counter space to clamp my press onto. Desktop, tabletop, counter top, you name it...

 

[steve123]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AskDrTodd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm trying to find a good all-in-one round (hunting small/medium game, target shooting, semi auto rifle) for the AR platform. I hear great things about Rob and his uppers chambered in 6mm, and great things about the 6mmAR Turbo 40 round, which has me all but sold. My concern is that I live in a condo in Florida, and have no room (and with my job unfortunately no time) to hand load cartridges, so I need to be able to purchase ammo from someone. You gents are a wealth of knowledge, and I appreciate your input here.

Most of my target shooting will be around 300 yards, but there is a 1000 yard range about an hour from here, and it would be lots of fun to be able to shoot out there on occasion.

Is the grendel the best bet for me because of reasonably good accuracy and availability (and diversity of) ammo? What do you guys recommend for a scope in the 1000 dollar range (gently used perhaps if it's slightly more than that) that is a good optic for this round? I was thinking something along the lines of a 5-20x50 or 4-16x50, maybe a leupy mk4?

Do you guys like the Monarch? It looks like a quality optic.

Thanks for the input!!! </div></div>

You have to neck down 6.5G to 6mm and create a false shoulder then fire form to 6mmART40.

6.5G----necked to 6mm with false shoulder----- fire formed.

You better stick to 6.5G.I do love my 6mmART40 though.

Edit for scope. Bushnell 3-12x44 FFP!

 

[Mike_in_FL]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AskDrTodd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm trying to find a good all-in-one round (hunting small/medium game, target shooting, semi auto rifle) for the AR platform.

so I need to be able to purchase ammo from someone.

Most of my target shooting will be around 300 yards, but there is a 1000 yard range about an hour from here, and it would be lots of fun to be able to shoot out there on occasion.

Thanks for the input!!! </div></div>

It sounds to me like you ought to be looking at an upper in 6.8 SPC. Ammo is readily available for it as well and will do anything you want out to 300 without a problem. I'm guessing that when you say a 1,000 yard range you're referring to Manatee. You understand that most of the line at Manatee only goes out to the 565 yard berm? You can't hunt here with a .22 centerfire but I think with an upper in 6.8 and an upper in .223 you can do everything you want. Unless you make a little space and reload.

 

[widnerkj]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

I used that handloader to load 7mm rem mag when I was in an appartment and didn't want to construct a bench. It's compact enough to fit in a shoe box.

 

[El Wray]

Re: Florida Boy torn between 6.5 Grendel and 6mmAR-T40

Check out "6.5 Grendel AR15..." thread in here. Lot of info in support of 6.5 Grendel...