Ive heard that heavy fluted barrels are more rigid than heavy non fluted barrels. ive also heard that heavy fluted barrels aren't more rigid than non fluted heavy barrels. ive been told that heavy fluted barrels don't heat up as much as heavy barrels. ive also been told that heavy fluted barrels aren't any better when it comes to heat as heavy non fluted barrels. also what about accuracy compared between the two are they any different. thank y'all.
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fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
- Thread starter TANNER THRASH
- Start date
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
From my personal experience, fluting does nothing more than add cool looks to the barrel. Flutting removes a small amount of metal, there for making it lighter. It makes the flutted area concave instead of convex so you really don't add cooling surface because now you have the same amount of metal exposed to air, only in a negative instead of a positive. Unless you make the cut very deep. Anyways, the barrel does not cool that much faster that it would be worth doing for that reason. Accuracy has never been an issue for me, as I order my barrels flutted from the barrel manufacturer. They have the proper equipment to ensure a stress free barrel after they flute it. Hope this helps a little. I know there will be different opinions on this subject. I personally like flutting for the looks alone, so I would do it.
From my personal experience, fluting does nothing more than add cool looks to the barrel. Flutting removes a small amount of metal, there for making it lighter. It makes the flutted area concave instead of convex so you really don't add cooling surface because now you have the same amount of metal exposed to air, only in a negative instead of a positive. Unless you make the cut very deep. Anyways, the barrel does not cool that much faster that it would be worth doing for that reason. Accuracy has never been an issue for me, as I order my barrels flutted from the barrel manufacturer. They have the proper equipment to ensure a stress free barrel after they flute it. Hope this helps a little. I know there will be different opinions on this subject. I personally like flutting for the looks alone, so I would do it.
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
ya thats how i think about fluted barrels too. they make the rifle lighter and look cool.
ya thats how i think about fluted barrels too. they make the rifle lighter and look cool.
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
Removing metal does not make a barrel more rigid.
Removing metal will allow a barrel to cool faster.....but it will also heat up faster.
Most fluting is for cosmetic purposes. Sometimes it's to get under a weight limit in competition.
The basic rule is if you don't need it, don't get it. You just spend more to get less.
Removing metal does not make a barrel more rigid.
Removing metal will allow a barrel to cool faster.....but it will also heat up faster.
Most fluting is for cosmetic purposes. Sometimes it's to get under a weight limit in competition.
The basic rule is if you don't need it, don't get it. You just spend more to get less.
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
There is no actual evidence o suggest that fluted barrels:
1. Are any more or less accurate than non fluted
2. Cool significantly faster
3. Do anything for you other than save a little weight and provide an aesthetic difference.
I like fluted barrels, so I get them.
When possible, get your fluted barrel from the barrel maker that way. I have seen no proof of this, but from a manufacturing/metalugy standpoint, it makes sense that fluting an otherwise finished barrel could induce unwanted stress.
There is no actual evidence o suggest that fluted barrels:
1. Are any more or less accurate than non fluted
2. Cool significantly faster
3. Do anything for you other than save a little weight and provide an aesthetic difference.
I like fluted barrels, so I get them.
When possible, get your fluted barrel from the barrel maker that way. I have seen no proof of this, but from a manufacturing/metalugy standpoint, it makes sense that fluting an otherwise finished barrel could induce unwanted stress.
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
Like many things in the world of shooting...do lots of reading on the subject and draw your own well informed conclusions. I think there are some advantages behind the engineering aspects of fluted barrels and they have some merit. At the end of the day, it's whatever works for you and makes you happy...
Like many things in the world of shooting...do lots of reading on the subject and draw your own well informed conclusions. I think there are some advantages behind the engineering aspects of fluted barrels and they have some merit. At the end of the day, it's whatever works for you and makes you happy...
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
Agree with what LoneWolf said.
Most of my rifles have AMU/MTU contours, so those barrels are fluted to take some of the weight off.
One recent build is a smaller contour med/palma non-fluted and the balance/weight is nearly identical to the larger heavier fluted barrels for the same barrel length.
As for those of you that think fluting adversely affects accuracy, how UN-accurate do you think the barrels are with "decorative" twist-fluting and intermittent fluting?
And yes, cutting flutes does result in more surface area in contact with air, thus it likely will cool faster (even if you haven't figured out a way to measure the difference).
Who really cares?
Get whatever you like.
The important thing is to get out and shoot it.
Agree with what LoneWolf said.
Most of my rifles have AMU/MTU contours, so those barrels are fluted to take some of the weight off.
One recent build is a smaller contour med/palma non-fluted and the balance/weight is nearly identical to the larger heavier fluted barrels for the same barrel length.
As for those of you that think fluting adversely affects accuracy, how UN-accurate do you think the barrels are with "decorative" twist-fluting and intermittent fluting?
And yes, cutting flutes does result in more surface area in contact with air, thus it likely will cool faster (even if you haven't figured out a way to measure the difference).
Who really cares?
Get whatever you like.
The important thing is to get out and shoot it.
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like it but that is just me.
</div></div>
I don't just like it, I love it!!! That truly looks awesome in my eyes. That look sets that rifle apart from all the others, and adds a personal touch. Great looking rifle!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like it but that is just me.
I don't just like it, I love it!!! That truly looks awesome in my eyes. That look sets that rifle apart from all the others, and adds a personal touch. Great looking rifle!!
M
milo 2.0
Guest
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
That would be hard not to like, looks good!
I'm a firm believer fluting makes the barrel more rigid, but don't want to get into any arguments over it.
From my standpoint, if I'm going to hammer a gun, and shoot the barrel out in a one year period, fluting is just a waste of money. I had my last barrel fluted, with vulcanized rubber imbedded in it, shot it out in 7mos.
If it is a hunting gun, or one I will not abuse, I would flute it.
That would be hard not to like, looks good!
I'm a firm believer fluting makes the barrel more rigid, but don't want to get into any arguments over it.
From my standpoint, if I'm going to hammer a gun, and shoot the barrel out in a one year period, fluting is just a waste of money. I had my last barrel fluted, with vulcanized rubber imbedded in it, shot it out in 7mos.
If it is a hunting gun, or one I will not abuse, I would flute it.
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
What about the dimpled barrels? They do look nice which I am sure is why the do it.
What about the dimpled barrels? They do look nice which I am sure is why the do it.
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
Also another thought, does the spiral flute reduce more, less, or the same weight as strait flutes?
Also another thought, does the spiral flute reduce more, less, or the same weight as strait flutes?
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
I don't think that it makes a real world difference. Weight reduction would be the most real followed by astetics. I personally don't care for the fluted look. I ordered my Hospitaller from GAP without the flutes because I think that it looks much cleaner. That is just me, to each their own. Barrel fluting is very popular for sure.
I don't think that it makes a real world difference. Weight reduction would be the most real followed by astetics. I personally don't care for the fluted look. I ordered my Hospitaller from GAP without the flutes because I think that it looks much cleaner. That is just me, to each their own. Barrel fluting is very popular for sure.
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
I've always liked the look of those spiral fluted barrels. Not sure if it helps with cooling, accuracy, etc, but it sure looks cool.
I've always liked the look of those spiral fluted barrels. Not sure if it helps with cooling, accuracy, etc, but it sure looks cool.
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
A fluted barrel of a given diameter is weaker than a non-fluted barrel of the same diameter, because there is more material in the cross section. (length, caliber, etc equal in all comparisons)
A fluted barrel of a given weight is stronger than a non-fluted barrel of the same weight, because a fluted barrel can have a larger diameter for aforementioned weight. Diameter is very important for rigidity, and fluting is a way of finding the middle ground to get it without making the rifle too heavy.
A fluted barrel takes shorter to heat up than a non-fluted barrel of the same diameter. Mass is the main determining factor in this, because any given quantity of material can absorb a specific amount of heat in order to heat up 1 degree. This is called the Heat Capacity of the material. A fluted barrel of the same diameter has less mass, thus less capacity to store heat.
A fluted barrel takes (nearly) the same time to heat up as a non-fluted barrel of the same weight. Since the mass is the same, the remaining variables are mostly negligible.
A fluted barrel has a lower maximum temperature for a given rate of fire than a non-fluted barrel, in both cases of equal weight and equal diameter. Since a fixed rate of fire creates a constant (on average over time) heat flow TO the barrel, the heat flow FROM the barrel is the same. The fluted barrel has more surface area to dissipate heat, and thus the heat flow is larger at the same temperature (sustaining a higher rate of fire), or the same at a lower temperature. The difference between the two barrel types is the largest in the case of equal weight, because at that point the "fins" are larger than in the equal diameter scenario.
For much the same reasons, a fluted barrel also cools down faster after shooting than a non-fluted barrel.
But most importantly, fluted barrels look awesome.
A fluted barrel of a given diameter is weaker than a non-fluted barrel of the same diameter, because there is more material in the cross section. (length, caliber, etc equal in all comparisons)
A fluted barrel of a given weight is stronger than a non-fluted barrel of the same weight, because a fluted barrel can have a larger diameter for aforementioned weight. Diameter is very important for rigidity, and fluting is a way of finding the middle ground to get it without making the rifle too heavy.
A fluted barrel takes shorter to heat up than a non-fluted barrel of the same diameter. Mass is the main determining factor in this, because any given quantity of material can absorb a specific amount of heat in order to heat up 1 degree. This is called the Heat Capacity of the material. A fluted barrel of the same diameter has less mass, thus less capacity to store heat.
A fluted barrel takes (nearly) the same time to heat up as a non-fluted barrel of the same weight. Since the mass is the same, the remaining variables are mostly negligible.
A fluted barrel has a lower maximum temperature for a given rate of fire than a non-fluted barrel, in both cases of equal weight and equal diameter. Since a fixed rate of fire creates a constant (on average over time) heat flow TO the barrel, the heat flow FROM the barrel is the same. The fluted barrel has more surface area to dissipate heat, and thus the heat flow is larger at the same temperature (sustaining a higher rate of fire), or the same at a lower temperature. The difference between the two barrel types is the largest in the case of equal weight, because at that point the "fins" are larger than in the equal diameter scenario.
For much the same reasons, a fluted barrel also cools down faster after shooting than a non-fluted barrel.
But most importantly, fluted barrels look awesome.
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
Couldn't fluting theoretically introduce extra variation in how a barrel performs say from cold bore to heated? We seem to be OCD about seemingly much less "invasive" structural components of our precision rifles. Just asking.
Couldn't fluting theoretically introduce extra variation in how a barrel performs say from cold bore to heated? We seem to be OCD about seemingly much less "invasive" structural components of our precision rifles. Just asking.
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mschloss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Couldn't fluting theoretically introduce extra variation in how a barrel performs say from cold bore to heated? We seem to be OCD about seemingly much less "invasive" structural components of our precision rifles. Just asking. </div></div>
One conclusion from my earlier post was that fluted barrels (of equal diameter) heat up more quickly and thus their POI shifts sooner.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mschloss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Couldn't fluting theoretically introduce extra variation in how a barrel performs say from cold bore to heated? We seem to be OCD about seemingly much less "invasive" structural components of our precision rifles. Just asking. </div></div>
One conclusion from my earlier post was that fluted barrels (of equal diameter) heat up more quickly and thus their POI shifts sooner.
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
Proper fluting will not wreck a quality cut rifled barrel. Cutting slowly with sharp tooling and lots of cooling is the key. No POI shift or any other issues with this one although purely cosmetic.
Proper fluting will not wreck a quality cut rifled barrel. Cutting slowly with sharp tooling and lots of cooling is the key. No POI shift or any other issues with this one although purely cosmetic.
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Moroni</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also another thought, does the spiral flute reduce more, less, or the same weight as strait flutes?
</div></div>
Spiral fluting removes more weight due to the flutes being longer than equal width and depth straight flutes.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Moroni</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also another thought, does the spiral flute reduce more, less, or the same weight as strait flutes?
</div></div>
Spiral fluting removes more weight due to the flutes being longer than equal width and depth straight flutes.
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
That would be true if you had as many spiral cuts as straight cuts, but it is easier to make more straight cuts. It also depends on the width of each cut.
That would be true if you had as many spiral cuts as straight cuts, but it is easier to make more straight cuts. It also depends on the width of each cut.
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChielScape</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A fluted barrel of a given diameter is weaker than a non-fluted barrel of the same diameter, because there is more material in the cross section. (length, caliber, etc equal in all comparisons)
A fluted barrel of a given weight is stronger than a non-fluted barrel of the same weight, because a fluted barrel can have a larger diameter for aforementioned weight. Diameter is very important for rigidity, and fluting is a way of finding the middle ground to get it without making the rifle too heavy.
A fluted barrel takes shorter to heat up than a non-fluted barrel of the same diameter. Mass is the main determining factor in this, because any given quantity of material can absorb a specific amount of heat in order to heat up 1 degree. This is called the Heat Capacity of the material. A fluted barrel of the same diameter has less mass, thus less capacity to store heat.
A fluted barrel takes (nearly) the same time to heat up as a non-fluted barrel of the same weight. Since the mass is the same, the remaining variables are mostly negligible.
A fluted barrel has a lower maximum temperature for a given rate of fire than a non-fluted barrel, in both cases of equal weight and equal diameter. Since a fixed rate of fire creates a constant (on average over time) heat flow TO the barrel, the heat flow FROM the barrel is the same. The fluted barrel has more surface area to dissipate heat, and thus the heat flow is larger at the same temperature (sustaining a higher rate of fire), or the same at a lower temperature. The difference between the two barrel types is the largest in the case of equal weight, because at that point the "fins" are larger than in the equal diameter scenario.
For much the same reasons, a fluted barrel also cools down faster after shooting than a non-fluted barrel.
But most importantly, fluted barrels look awesome. </div></div>
What this guy says ^^^^^^^^^
Fluted barrels radiate more heat, so shooting prone on a calm day makes a mirage shield even more imperative. That said, though, I have not noticed that the fluted barrels I have used cooled any noticeable amount faster than non-fluted barrels. I suppose that in a double-blind side-by-side comparison test the fluted barrel would cool a measureable amount quicker, but is not enough to make a difference to me. I will not be paying extra for flutes in the future, unless it just has to be done to make weight category in a competition build.
Paul
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChielScape</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A fluted barrel of a given diameter is weaker than a non-fluted barrel of the same diameter, because there is more material in the cross section. (length, caliber, etc equal in all comparisons)
A fluted barrel of a given weight is stronger than a non-fluted barrel of the same weight, because a fluted barrel can have a larger diameter for aforementioned weight. Diameter is very important for rigidity, and fluting is a way of finding the middle ground to get it without making the rifle too heavy.
A fluted barrel takes shorter to heat up than a non-fluted barrel of the same diameter. Mass is the main determining factor in this, because any given quantity of material can absorb a specific amount of heat in order to heat up 1 degree. This is called the Heat Capacity of the material. A fluted barrel of the same diameter has less mass, thus less capacity to store heat.
A fluted barrel takes (nearly) the same time to heat up as a non-fluted barrel of the same weight. Since the mass is the same, the remaining variables are mostly negligible.
A fluted barrel has a lower maximum temperature for a given rate of fire than a non-fluted barrel, in both cases of equal weight and equal diameter. Since a fixed rate of fire creates a constant (on average over time) heat flow TO the barrel, the heat flow FROM the barrel is the same. The fluted barrel has more surface area to dissipate heat, and thus the heat flow is larger at the same temperature (sustaining a higher rate of fire), or the same at a lower temperature. The difference between the two barrel types is the largest in the case of equal weight, because at that point the "fins" are larger than in the equal diameter scenario.
For much the same reasons, a fluted barrel also cools down faster after shooting than a non-fluted barrel.
But most importantly, fluted barrels look awesome. </div></div>
What this guy says ^^^^^^^^^
Fluted barrels radiate more heat, so shooting prone on a calm day makes a mirage shield even more imperative. That said, though, I have not noticed that the fluted barrels I have used cooled any noticeable amount faster than non-fluted barrels. I suppose that in a double-blind side-by-side comparison test the fluted barrel would cool a measureable amount quicker, but is not enough to make a difference to me. I will not be paying extra for flutes in the future, unless it just has to be done to make weight category in a competition build.
Paul
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChielScape</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A fluted barrel of a given diameter is weaker than a non-fluted barrel of the same diameter, because there is more material in the cross section. (length, caliber, etc equal in all comparisons)
A fluted barrel of a given weight is stronger than a non-fluted barrel of the same weight, because a fluted barrel can have a larger diameter for aforementioned weight. Diameter is very important for rigidity, and fluting is a way of finding the middle ground to get it without making the rifle too heavy.
...
.
.
.
But most importantly, fluted barrels look awesome. </div></div>
These are the facts that you really need. Lets face it the cooling thing is not going to make any difference to most people.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChielScape</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A fluted barrel of a given diameter is weaker than a non-fluted barrel of the same diameter, because there is more material in the cross section. (length, caliber, etc equal in all comparisons)
A fluted barrel of a given weight is stronger than a non-fluted barrel of the same weight, because a fluted barrel can have a larger diameter for aforementioned weight. Diameter is very important for rigidity, and fluting is a way of finding the middle ground to get it without making the rifle too heavy.
...
.
.
.
But most importantly, fluted barrels look awesome. </div></div>
These are the facts that you really need. Lets face it the cooling thing is not going to make any difference to most people.
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
Oh well......lets kick the tires a little.
The idea behind fluting is not to take a solid profile and flute it out (although the results are below) but to make a stiffer barrel of the <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">same weight</span></span> as the solid profile. If one can "get that" then we can move forward...
CONCLUSION ON BARREL FLUTING....
When comparing two barrels of <span style="font-weight: bold">equal weight</span>, length, and material but one is solid and other is fluted, the fluted barrel will have:
1. A larger diameter
2. <span style="font-weight: bold">Greater</span> stiffness (depending on how the extra diameter/weight is distributed)
3. Vibrate at a higher frequency (depending on how the extra diameter/ weight is distributed)
4. Less muzzle sag (depending on how the extra diameter/ weight is distributed)
Therefor, there are the conditions for enhanced accuracy (takes match, lights fuse.)
Fluting a solid barrel, and as compared to that same original solid, will:
1. Reduce its weight
2. <span style="font-weight: bold">Reduce</span> its stiffness
3. Increase its natural frequency of vibration
4. Decrease its muzzle sag.
This would decrease the potential for accuracy (takes boot, stomps out fuse.)
Reducing the weight of a barrel by fluting makes a stiffer barrel <span style="font-weight: bold">than reducing the weight by decreasing its diameter</span>.
This would increase the potential for accuracy
A shorter barrel of the same section, solid or fluted, will sag less and vibrate at a higher frequency.
(Handing out matches to everyone, he offers the following
http://www.varmintal.net/aflut.htm
Oh well......lets kick the tires a little.
The idea behind fluting is not to take a solid profile and flute it out (although the results are below) but to make a stiffer barrel of the <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">same weight</span></span> as the solid profile. If one can "get that" then we can move forward...
CONCLUSION ON BARREL FLUTING....
When comparing two barrels of <span style="font-weight: bold">equal weight</span>, length, and material but one is solid and other is fluted, the fluted barrel will have:
1. A larger diameter
2. <span style="font-weight: bold">Greater</span> stiffness (depending on how the extra diameter/weight is distributed)
3. Vibrate at a higher frequency (depending on how the extra diameter/ weight is distributed)
4. Less muzzle sag (depending on how the extra diameter/ weight is distributed)
Therefor, there are the conditions for enhanced accuracy (takes match, lights fuse.)
Fluting a solid barrel, and as compared to that same original solid, will:
1. Reduce its weight
2. <span style="font-weight: bold">Reduce</span> its stiffness
3. Increase its natural frequency of vibration
4. Decrease its muzzle sag.
This would decrease the potential for accuracy (takes boot, stomps out fuse.)
Reducing the weight of a barrel by fluting makes a stiffer barrel <span style="font-weight: bold">than reducing the weight by decreasing its diameter</span>.
This would increase the potential for accuracy
A shorter barrel of the same section, solid or fluted, will sag less and vibrate at a higher frequency.
(Handing out matches to everyone, he offers the following
http://www.varmintal.net/aflut.htm
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
what are the effects of having a finished barrel fluted?
I have a cylinder barrel finshed at 1.35" which I want to lighten up.
what are the effects of having a finished barrel fluted?
I have a cylinder barrel finshed at 1.35" which I want to lighten up.
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
It depends on a number of things, there are no absolutes.
As an example...
"In 1994 I ordered a Hart .30 cal. 1:12" barrel for my .300 Mag. Wimbledon rifle. Soon after I began to have cold feet as far as weight was concerned. We're looking at about 16 to 18 lbs. total; and I'm only a little guy. Called up one of the Harts and he said that as long as my barrel hasn't been reamed yet, there would be no problem with fluting. Believe me, the Harts will not flute a barrel if it will hurt accuracy. Their reputation is on the line with every barrel that leaves the factory.
BTW, the fluting they do is by grinding not by milling. When done in the proper order of things, fluting is not harmful at all. And this was before cryogenic treating also.
Just dug up the very first targets shot with this rifle at 100 yds (07/04/94). Light switching wind, overcast. To briefly describe the rifle it is a Hammond's built, McMillan prone stock, Hall Express action, Jewell 1.5 oz. trigger., 24X Leupold, custom dies, etc, etc, you get the picture.
Mind you, this is day one at the range. With 72.5 gr. of IMR 4831 (128.5 on the Culver) and Berger 190 VLD's the first two groups were .200" and .400"; with more vertical than horizontal. Switching to 190 gr. Sierras the next group was .450". I sure wish that I had only shot 10-shot groups and more of them. But three consecutive 5-shot groups is pretty indicative of repeatable accuracy. I shoot at quarter inch black dot for range work.
The fluting ($90.00) knocked off about a pound, but it is still too heavy for me to comfortably support in a long match. But I'm glad I did it. It would be unusable to me without the fluting. "
to....
"When a barrel manufacturer flutes a barrel it's always done before finish lapping, and often done before a button is pulled or rifleing is cut. The barrel will also often recieve an extra turn in the kiln to de-stress the steel before the next process. To flute a finished barrel could certianly effect the accuracy of your rifle, even if you have it de-stressed afterward. If you took an extremely small amount of material off the barrel and made tons of passes to get your desired flute depth, it may be possible to keep the accuracy, but I'd still recomend against it. My smith has fluted many barrels for folks after the fact even after he told them the issues it could cause. When you push a brush through the barrel (if you have a sensitive hand) you can actually feel the difference from were the flutes stop and start. My smith always insists on leaving several inches of the barrels muzzle unfluted as this can help maintain the accuracy potential. "
and anything in between....
It depends on a number of things, there are no absolutes.
As an example...
"In 1994 I ordered a Hart .30 cal. 1:12" barrel for my .300 Mag. Wimbledon rifle. Soon after I began to have cold feet as far as weight was concerned. We're looking at about 16 to 18 lbs. total; and I'm only a little guy. Called up one of the Harts and he said that as long as my barrel hasn't been reamed yet, there would be no problem with fluting. Believe me, the Harts will not flute a barrel if it will hurt accuracy. Their reputation is on the line with every barrel that leaves the factory.
BTW, the fluting they do is by grinding not by milling. When done in the proper order of things, fluting is not harmful at all. And this was before cryogenic treating also.
Just dug up the very first targets shot with this rifle at 100 yds (07/04/94). Light switching wind, overcast. To briefly describe the rifle it is a Hammond's built, McMillan prone stock, Hall Express action, Jewell 1.5 oz. trigger., 24X Leupold, custom dies, etc, etc, you get the picture.
Mind you, this is day one at the range. With 72.5 gr. of IMR 4831 (128.5 on the Culver) and Berger 190 VLD's the first two groups were .200" and .400"; with more vertical than horizontal. Switching to 190 gr. Sierras the next group was .450". I sure wish that I had only shot 10-shot groups and more of them. But three consecutive 5-shot groups is pretty indicative of repeatable accuracy. I shoot at quarter inch black dot for range work.
The fluting ($90.00) knocked off about a pound, but it is still too heavy for me to comfortably support in a long match. But I'm glad I did it. It would be unusable to me without the fluting. "
to....
"When a barrel manufacturer flutes a barrel it's always done before finish lapping, and often done before a button is pulled or rifleing is cut. The barrel will also often recieve an extra turn in the kiln to de-stress the steel before the next process. To flute a finished barrel could certianly effect the accuracy of your rifle, even if you have it de-stressed afterward. If you took an extremely small amount of material off the barrel and made tons of passes to get your desired flute depth, it may be possible to keep the accuracy, but I'd still recomend against it. My smith has fluted many barrels for folks after the fact even after he told them the issues it could cause. When you push a brush through the barrel (if you have a sensitive hand) you can actually feel the difference from were the flutes stop and start. My smith always insists on leaving several inches of the barrels muzzle unfluted as this can help maintain the accuracy potential. "
and anything in between....
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
RollingThunder51, Thank you for taking the time to write this information. This is a wealth of knowledge and make a lot of sense. I have always been told that fluting a barrel makes it more rigid but I did not know that it should be do prior to actually rifling the barrel. Hopefully this information will clear up any questions for other members.
RollingThunder51, Thank you for taking the time to write this information. This is a wealth of knowledge and make a lot of sense. I have always been told that fluting a barrel makes it more rigid but I did not know that it should be do prior to actually rifling the barrel. Hopefully this information will clear up any questions for other members.
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: delv7915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RollingThunder51, Thank you for taking the time to write this information. This is a wealth of knowledge and make a lot of sense. I have always been told that fluting a barrel makes it more rigid but I did not know that it should be do prior to actually rifling the barrel. Hopefully this information will clear up any questions for other members. </div></div>
fluting a barrel will NEVER make it more rigid. however, a fluted barrel will be more rigid than a non-fluted barrel of the same length and weight.
another thing i don't agree with is that fluting induces stress. unless you are doing something very wrong, removing material shouldn't induce stress. if anything, it should relieve stress already present in the material. this could potentially be a problem if the bore dimensions change in the process.
sure, fluting looks cool. if you are honestly trying to justify it, i bet most of us couldn't tell the difference on target between an 8 lb non-fluted barrel and an 8 lb fluted barrel of the same length. going to a slightly lighter contour will cost you less and most likely net you the same result on target.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: delv7915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RollingThunder51, Thank you for taking the time to write this information. This is a wealth of knowledge and make a lot of sense. I have always been told that fluting a barrel makes it more rigid but I did not know that it should be do prior to actually rifling the barrel. Hopefully this information will clear up any questions for other members. </div></div>
fluting a barrel will NEVER make it more rigid. however, a fluted barrel will be more rigid than a non-fluted barrel of the same length and weight.
another thing i don't agree with is that fluting induces stress. unless you are doing something very wrong, removing material shouldn't induce stress. if anything, it should relieve stress already present in the material. this could potentially be a problem if the bore dimensions change in the process.
sure, fluting looks cool. if you are honestly trying to justify it, i bet most of us couldn't tell the difference on target between an 8 lb non-fluted barrel and an 8 lb fluted barrel of the same length. going to a slightly lighter contour will cost you less and most likely net you the same result on target.
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
This has been discussed... Oh, and "SOONERS" I wrote you a little song.
![watch](http://[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E5nSPAhViQ&feature=colike"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E5nSPAhViQ&feature=colike[/url])
Just for you just in case it's not imbedded
This has been discussed... Oh, and "SOONERS" I wrote you a little song.
Just for you just in case it's not imbedded
Re: fluted heavy barrel or non fluted heavy barrel.
It might not be much for looks, but a barrel with cooling "fins" radiating around it- now that would cool faster...
It might not be much for looks, but a barrel with cooling "fins" radiating around it- now that would cool faster...
I'm not an expert, but the important thing to consider here is: "what's the common denominator here?" I feel like this one is often left out
If it's a given, equal weight, then YES fluting will have more stiffness (potentially) and better cooling for the SAME WEIGHT. But for the same profile? No. You typically need to go up a barrel diameter and then flute to get the same weight, better stiffness, and better cooling with fluting.
Given equal profiles, I'd be shocked if ONLY fluting did more than remove weight.
Cooling benefits depend entirely on firing schedule. In theory, a non-fluted barrel should be more accurate initially, as it can absorb more heat.
I'm I'd love to hear contrasting facts/opinions on this from experts and casuals alike. I always learn so much from this forum.
If it's a given, equal weight, then YES fluting will have more stiffness (potentially) and better cooling for the SAME WEIGHT. But for the same profile? No. You typically need to go up a barrel diameter and then flute to get the same weight, better stiffness, and better cooling with fluting.
Given equal profiles, I'd be shocked if ONLY fluting did more than remove weight.
Cooling benefits depend entirely on firing schedule. In theory, a non-fluted barrel should be more accurate initially, as it can absorb more heat.
I'm I'd love to hear contrasting facts/opinions on this from experts and casuals alike. I always learn so much from this forum.
And today I learned that I revived a 13 month old thread without adding much to the discussion. Apologies gents! I misread 2011 for 2021.
At this rate of math, I'm never going to be able to use mil reticles, am I?
