Gunsmithing Fluting vs. Dimpling question

[HowlinMadMurphy]

Is there any significant advantage in weight or accuracy with regards to fluting vs. dimpling a rifle barrel? I'm particularly interested in aspects of flex and rigidity as it pertains to these two methods. Any input would be appreciated.

 

[2156SMK]

Re: Fluting vs. Dimpling question

Neither method reduces significant weight in the grand scheme of things.
If weight reduction is the goal, go with a smaller profile.
On a good quality barrel that has the profiling pretty concentric to the bore, there is insignificant accuracy difference between different diameters.
Most people get fluting or dimpling for cosmetic reasons.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Fluting vs. Dimpling question

If you like how they look, do it... only reason to bother.

 

[Turk]

Re: Fluting vs. Dimpling question

W/ fluting you retain some rigidity; not spiral fluting. Taper and length being the same, the unfluted will be the stiffest followed by the straight fluted. Spiral flutes and dimples may look cool and perhaps give one more surface area but structurally don't offer much.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Fluting vs. Dimpling question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2156SMK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If weight reduction is the goal, go with a smaller profile.
</div></div>

Good advice right there.


I really like that dimpling and am going to try to do it to my next AR barrel.
Wouldn't cut on my bolt gun barrel though.

I don't think there's enough difference in rigidity between dimples and straight flutes to matter. I think both are more rigid than spiral flutes.

 

[bkster]

Re: Fluting vs. Dimpling question

fluted heats up faster and causes weird mirage in my opinion

def looks cool but doesnt do squat didly

if you want to save weight get a smaller dia barrel or shorter

and if one pound of weight(pretty hard to achieve with fluting) on
a 12-15lb rifle is gonna make or break you...rethink this sport

or get a smaller and lighter scope

 

[Five7guy]

Re: Fluting vs. Dimpling question

Keith you said <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Wouldn't cut on my bolt gun barrel though. </div></div> Why is that you dont reccomend fluting a barrel? Briefly can you explain why and if there are any real disadvantages or is it just your preferance. Thanks and Im looking forward to shooting my rifle with the new brake and trigger.

 

[ofelas]

Re: Fluting vs. Dimpling question

I believe he meant he would try dimpling his AR barrel, but would leave his bolt gun barrel untouched.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Fluting vs. Dimpling question

Just my preference. The only advantage I see in fluting is looks and cooling(maybe).
Cooling might be BS because the barrel can heat up quicker too so its a double-edged sword.

I wouldn't flute my bolt gun barrel because I see no advantage.
If I wanted it lighter I'd turn it down until it was the weight I wanted. Or shorten it an inch.

I cant prove fluting hurts accuracy. There are a lot of accurate rifles out there with fluted barrels. But if ultimate accuracy is the goal, I want to cut on my barrel as little as possible(if that makes sense). I want it to be as close to perfectly round, concentric, and straight as possible(among many other things).

For example: If I had to bet my life on a rifle shooting one hole, Id put the 1.250" barrel blank between centers, remove just enough material so it cuts from one end to the other, then go about my chambering and crowning process. So it'd end up being about a 1.200" straight taper barrel XX" long. I see that as being the most accurate barrel. Any material removal from there I see as a negative. Now obviously you have to remove material so its a reasonable weight and size, but the less the better IMO.

Thats why we like M24 contours so much

 

[zakk]

Re: Fluting vs. Dimpling question

I'm getting ready to build what Ive dubbed the monster mauser. Its going to be chambered in 460 alliance to launch 300gr AP hollow points at 2000+ FPS just today I decided to go with an 18in zero contour 1inch barrel. I'm waiting for a quote back one having the barrel made with and with out flutes. If it isnt much more I'm going to go fluted just for the look and to save a few ounces. I considered dimpling but couldn't bring myself to do it to a bolt gun, maybe on an AR barrel like was mentioned above.

I understand the less cuts the better logic but I was always under the impression flutes made for a more rigid barrel, is that not the case?

 

[Boltfluter]

Re: Fluting vs. Dimpling question

Fluting does <span style="font-weight: bold">not</span> make it more riged. The advantage is in using a bigger diameter barrel, fluting it to get the weight close to the lighter contour. More mass in the barrel leads to less vibration and better harmonics. If done correctly it does not affect accuracy in regards to our application. Tactical app. Hope this helps. Paul.

 

[Five7guy]

Re: Fluting vs. Dimpling question

Thanks Keith you definately explained this well. This thread has sure been helpful to dispel alot of myths for me. Guess I probably wont be doing flutes on my next build. They sure do look cool though on alot of guns.

 

[zakk]

Re: Fluting vs. Dimpling question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PPR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fluting does <span style="font-weight: bold">not</span> make it more riged. The advantage is in using a bigger diameter barrel, fluting it to get the weight close to the lighter contour. More mass in the barrel leads to less vibration and better harmonics. If done correctly it does not affect accuracy in regards to our application. Tactical app. Hope this helps. Paul.

</div></div>

Thanks for the info paul, I'm still trying to decided to flute or not to flute on the rifle I'm about to build. If it doesn't affect the accuracy and for only 50 for my bucks I'm considering it for strictly cosmetic reasons on a 1in zero contour barrel.

 

[azimutha]

Re: Fluting vs. Dimpling question

I had a 24" .308 Win barrel fluted by Rock Creek because it cut about .5 lbs. off. No, that's not going to make or break the rifle or make me quit shooting/hunting if I'd left it as a stock varmint contour. But considering a previous 24" had a stock barrel and a scope that weighed 13 oz. more, it starts to add up. I'd rather carry an extra pound of water or food.

Drawbacks: less material so it will heat up faster (mitigated by not shooting lots of rapid fire) and you can't really have the barrel cut back.

 

[Mj30wilson900]

Is there any significant advantage in weight or accuracy with regards to fluting vs. dimpling a rifle barrel? I'm particularly interested in aspects of flex and rigidity as it pertains to these two methods. Any input would be appreciated.

Actually fluting tends to cause group stringing more than dimpling while reducing weight. It takes more time but is worth it if accuracy with hot barrels are important. I have heard that is why knights armament dimples their barrels instead of fluting.
On a hunting rifle when you only shoot 1-5 shots at a time fluting should work and can get you a little lighter barrel. I choose dimpling because it has a honeycomb effect of strength that helps harmonics as the travel down the barrel.

 

[ACard]

Actually fluting tends to cause group stringing more than dimpling while reducing weight. It takes more time but is worth it if accuracy with hot barrels are important. I have heard that is why knights armament dimples their barrels instead of fluting.
On a hunting rifle when you only shoot 1-5 shots at a time fluting should work and can get you a little lighter barrel. I choose dimpling because it has a honeycomb effect of strength that helps harmonics as the travel down the barrel.

Not disputing the claim but I would be very interested in seeing some supporting evidence of this from a verified source.

ETA and I do not mean boobtube SME's by verified source

 

[Mj30wilson900]

Not disputing the claim but I would be very interested in seeing some supporting evidence of this from a verified source.

ETA and I do not mean boobtube SME's by verified source

I am just going off of interviews I have seen about certain guns from Larry vickers and reed knight. That might have been platform specific for sr-25. As far as published data not really sure anyone has put pen to paper yet. Below is a article about fluting but I have yet to find analysis on dimpling

Varmint Al's Fluted Barrel Stiffness Analysis

 

[ACard]

I am just going off of interviews I have seen about certain guns from Larry vickers and reed knight. That might have been platform specific for sr-25. As far as published data not really sure anyone has put pen to paper yet.

That what i figured and mean no disrespect at all. That said regardless we must keep in mind that all the sources along those lines are in the business of selling products.... Marketing is as Marketing does. Again not trying to be a dick. Personally I am about to start a new bolt gun build and am seriously considering having my barrel dimpled simply because....it looks cool! There I said it...lol

 

[Average guy]

Holy necro post. 10 years

 

[ACard]

Holy necro post. 10 years

Holy necro post. 10 years

And....

 

[Mj30wilson900]

That what i figured and mean no disrespect at all. That said regardless we must keep in mind that all the sources along those lines are in the business of selling products.... Marketing is as Marketing does. Again not trying to be a dick. Personally I am about to start a new bolt gun build and am seriously considering having my barrel dimpled simply because....it looks cool! There I said it...lol

I tend to believe vickers and reed knight as the setting was not a sales pitch but pointing out there failures. No t something you usually hear from salesman. He also has a institute of military technology to draw from. Reed knights commercial market is a drop in the bucket to his special forces contracts and the special forces tend to test and retest not just take your word of your product. That is why I put weight in what he was saying. The military would not buy dimples just because it’s cool. Knights is a think tank and tries and fails more than the succeed. No feelings hurt here I like to hear what other people know. I would like a barrel manufacturer to chime in also to see if I am right. Some people on the internet say fluting strengthens barrels and helps cooling while others say your barrel is at its strongest whole. Their is so much that goes into what we are talking about as far as usage. Did knights dimple to lighten or to aid in cooling by adding more surface area? Interesting subject for sure.

 

[BigPrince]

Holy necro post. 10 years

That what I thought when I opened this. Damn. I mean the guy who asked the question might actually be dead...

 

[ACard]

That what I thought when I opened this. Damn. I mean the guy who asked the question might actually be dead...

So no one else can be curious?

 

[ACard]

I tend to believe vickers and reed knight as the setting was not a sales pitch but pointing out there failures. No t something you usually hear from salesman. He also has a institute of military technology to draw from. Reed knights commercial market is a drop in the bucket to his special forces contracts and the special forces tend to test and retest not just take your word of your product. That is why I put weight in what he was saying. The military would not buy dimples just because it’s cool. Knights is a think tank and tries and fails more than the succeed. No feelings hurt here I like to hear what other people know. I would like a barrel manufacturer to chime in also to see if I am right. Some people on the internet say fluting strengthens barrels and helps cooling while others say your barrel is at its strongest whole. Their is so much that goes into what we are talking about as far as usage. Did knights dimple to lighten or to aid in cooling by adding more surface area? Interesting subject for sure.

Oh I am very familiar with them both and have spent many many hours with Reed Knight discussing various aspects of their rifles and the engineering that has been put into them and the intended purposes of these implementations. That said I never had reason to ask about the dimpling, the contracts I was working on did not have any requirement for or against that quality. To be clear, again, not disputing your claim, just curious if there has ever been a quantitive study that outlined the benefits or detractors of external barrel treatment like fluting and the like.

 

[stello1001]

What's up with all these necro posts lol

 

[BigPrince]

So no one else can be curious?

Wasn't even talking to you chief. Have a good day.

 

[Mj30wilson900]

Oh I am very familiar with them both and have spent many many hours with Reed Knight discussing various aspects of their rifles and the engineering that has been put into them and the intended purposes of these implementations. That said I never had reason to ask about the dimpling, the contracts I was working on did not have any requirement for or against that quality. To be clear, again, not disputing your claim, just curious if there has ever been a quantitive study that outlined the benefits or detractors of external barrel treatment like fluting and the

 

[Mj30wilson900]

Thanks for adding to the conversation I enjoy the debate. I think law enforcement professionals probably are not going to buy into the minimal weight savings for the added up charge for the barrel cost. Wondering if a knights employee might chime in also to clear up why they scrapped the fluting and went to dimples.

 

[ACard]

Wasn't even talking to you chief. Have a good day.

No worries but my question still applies

 

[Steel head]

 

[Chuck86]

Glad to see people using the search function, at least

 

[Mj30wilson900]

That what i figured and mean no disrespect at all. That said regardless we must keep in mind that all the sources along those lines are in the business of selling products.... Marketing is as Marketing does. Again not trying to be a dick. Personally I am about to start a new bolt gun build and am seriously considering having my barrel dimpled simply because....it looks cool! There I said it...lol

the owner of wolf precision Jaime Dotson said he doesn’t flute barrels because him and Gordy gritters mentioned that when lead slugging barrels the bore will relax/ open up at the fluting section and the slug will fall through that section because it opens up several ten thousands of a inch though that section.
So for that reason he does not use those on his rifles. He perfers to just cut a inch or two off the barrel end. After getting a precision lapped barrel whose lands and grooves are uniform and then flute it and open it up is not something he cares to do and I agree with him.

 

[LRI]

Is there any significant advantage in weight or accuracy with regards to fluting vs. dimpling a rifle barrel? I'm particularly interested in aspects of flex and rigidity as it pertains to these two methods. Any input would be appreciated.

If you want some weight out of a barrel, this works. On a Sendero contour barrel, it beats the weight of a Proof Research in 6.5 caliber. I say 6.5 specifically because it is the only caliber I made any effort to compare to.

As for the big buzzwords that get tossed around topics like this, I cannot offer any conclusive arguments either way. We started this pattern two or so years ago and the response borders on the absurd. I never imagined it would take off like it has.
Thus far, the feedback has been great. No complaints.

The subtle difference in this pattern is that the root of the pocket is truly contoured just as the OD of the barrel. The idea was to make the barrel appear to "grow" something that emulates a chain-link stocking on a really "kinky chick", lol.

LRI "Pattern X":

Works on bolts too.

 

[FatBoy]

Damn that looks like a lot of work.

 

[Mj30wilson900]

If you want some weight out of a barrel, this works. On a Sendero contour barrel, it beats the weight of a Proof Research in 6.5 caliber. I say 6.5 specifically because it is the only caliber I made any effort to compare to.

As for the big buzzwords that get tossed around topics like this, I cannot offer any conclusive arguments either way. We started this pattern two or so years ago and the response borders on the absurd. I never imagined it would take off like it has.
Thus far, the feedback has been great. No complaints.

The subtle difference in this pattern is that the root of the pocket is truly contoured just as the OD of the barrel. The idea was to make the barrel appear to "grow" something that emulates a chain-link stocking on a really "kinky chick", lol.

LRI "Pattern X":

Works on bolts too.

View attachment 7835777

View attachment 7835779View attachment 7835778

How much for s that treatment on a barrel?

 

[Baron23]

Is there any significant advantage in weight or accuracy with regards to fluting vs. dimpling a rifle barrel? I'm particularly interested in aspects of flex and rigidity as it pertains to these two methods. Any input would be appreciated.

Aside from aesthetics, why do anything to the barrel at all?

I sort of agree that if weight is the consideration, then go for a lighter contour and/or CF barrel, right.

If its heat dissipation, I tend to discount the effectiveness of this type of work on thermal characteristics.

If for looks...and for many this is a valid reason...get what you like. And LRI has been showing some really wild looking barrel exterior treatments.


P.S. - Oops, I see that this is necro and that I'm Mr. Redundant yet once again as I see LRI posted above.

Cheers

 

[obx22]

Screw the necro-posting bump if I’m learning something
Let’s say you have 2 barrels the exact same weight and length.
Barrel A is a high quality tube in bull configuration with any accompanying droop from flex, yadda yadda.
Barrel B is aggressively fluted in what ever pattern you imagine, to the point it’s twice the diameter of barrel A (remember they weigh the same).
While I’m thinking barrel B must be stiffer (resistant to flex due to diameter) and straighter (less droop for the same reason), I’m still question it’s accuracy potential.
If they were rimfires, ok, perhaps B might be better due to lower temps and pressures. In a centerfire I’d think the fluted bore would be more subject to distortion. The ridges or thicker sections hold heat more than the thin sections, and I’d think that would change the bore in way reflected on the target.
But all of that is just theory.

 

[FatBoy]

May help some F class guys make weight. Or maybe a PRS shooter balance his rifle.

I stopped fluting years ago because the extra heat off the barrel jacked with my sight picture in long strings of fire (Hightower) even with a mirage band, but I would bet they sell that flute option more than anyone expects. It looks like it would be a dramatic weight shed, much more than traditional four or six flutes. Kind of makes me think of a skinny barrel with an exoskeleton.

 

[Average guy]

I’ve watched videos during their development process. The weight reduction of this fluting is dramatic. If I remember correctly it’s will take a truck axle to a comparable weight of a proof sendero CF barrel. My next comp contour will be fluted in this manner.

 

[LRI]

How much for s that treatment on a barrel?

See this link: Pricing is variable as it is relevant to the length of the barrel. So, play around with the drop-down menus.

GUNSMITHING SERVICES: Barrel Fluting

Notes regarding barrel fluting: Barrel fluting is a machining process that is very dependent upon well-executed work holding. We have a well-vetted process for ensuring a visually clean appearance in our finished work. Please note that IF your barrel is coated, blued, blasted, or "finished"...

www.longriflesinc.com

 

[LRI]

May help some F class guys make weight. Or maybe a PRS shooter balance his rifle.

I stopped fluting years ago because the extra heat off the barrel jacked with my sight picture in long strings of fire (Hightower) even with a mirage band, but I would bet they sell that flute option more than anyone expects. It looks like it would be a dramatic weight shed, much more than traditional four or six flutes. Kind of makes me think of a skinny barrel with an exoskeleton.

"Exoskeleton"

Much more eloquent of an answer than "chain link stockings on a kinky chick."

Lol. Well said.