Gunsmithing FN Bolt Knobs

M

malefactor

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Minuteman
Feb 7, 2010
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Colorado
#1
I have looked at a bunch of threads about bolt knobs, including the 5 min. challenge and AZPrecision's work but now one says anything about doing a change on an FN.

Can someone point me to a smith that does work on an FN?

thanks,
 
#2
Re: FN Bolt Knobs

I will do them all day. The tool suppliers love me. Here is a pic of what you will get for $90:


383104452.jpg


 
#3
Re: FN Bolt Knobs

I've had a 8 FN SPR bolt knobs done by Randy at R & D precision and all have been flawless.

Although Mark Gordon (USHandgunner, Short Action Customs)has not done a knob for me, he has done a little other work and done so quickly, professionally, and perfectly. My next FN will go to him as his FN knob jobs are beautiful.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...rue#Post1409030
 
#4
Re: FN Bolt Knobs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Although Mark Gordon (USHandgunner, Short Action Customs)has not done a knob for me, he has done a little other work and done so quickly, professionally, and perfectly. My next FN will go to him as his FN knob jobs are beautiful.
</div></div>

I also highly recommend him, super fast and he sends you pictures of the progress as he is doing the knob installation. The gap between the knob and the bolt handle is almost seamless!
 
#5
Re: FN Bolt Knobs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hooper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will do them all day. The tool suppliers love me.</div></div>

Amen. When I do them I have to use solid carbide to drill them, very hard stuff.

-matt
 
#7
Re: FN Bolt Knobs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Moadster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Although Mark Gordon (USHandgunner, Short Action Customs)has not done a knob for me, he has done a little other work and done so quickly, professionally, and perfectly. My next FN will go to him as his FN knob jobs are beautiful.
</div></div>

I also highly recommend him, super fast and he sends you pictures of the progress as he is doing the knob installation. The gap between the knob and the bolt handle is almost seamless! </div></div>


Exactly, here is mine. Mark has a winner with his FN bolt knobs.

 
#8
Re: FN Bolt Knobs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monteboy84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hooper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will do them all day. The tool suppliers love me.</div></div>

Amen. When I do them I have to use solid carbide to drill them, very hard stuff.

-matt </div></div>

Why do you drill on them? Don't you machine the existing knob?
 
#9
Re: FN Bolt Knobs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hooper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monteboy84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hooper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will do them all day. The tool suppliers love me.</div></div>

Amen. When I do them I have to use solid carbide to drill them, very hard stuff.

-matt </div></div>

Why do you drill on them? Don't you machine the existing knob? </div></div>

Looks like the new knobs are bigger than the existing knobs, so I don't think you can just machine the existing knob.
 
#10
Re: FN Bolt Knobs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Looks like the new knobs are bigger than the existing knobs, so I don't think you can just machine the existing knob. </div></div>

Do some reading on how different people attach bolt knobs, and you'll understand what he means.
 
#11
Re: FN Bolt Knobs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red_SC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Looks like the new knobs are bigger than the existing knobs, so I don't think you can just machine the existing knob. </div></div>

Do some reading on how different people attach bolt knobs, and you'll understand what he means. </div></div>

I thought they used jigs to thread the existing knob, or drill it and tap it. I've never actually seen it done and would like to know myself. I just thought someone was asking why you don't just modify the original knob into the shape you see the other ones in. This thread is very relevant to my interests because I'm beginning a .30-06 build on a CRF Model 70 action.
 
#13
Re: FN Bolt Knobs

Falar,

I can see where you'd get that. When most people put on Remington knobs, they mill down the existing knob and thread it, this is the machining Hooper was talking about. Remington knobs have a casting void in the middle, so some people drill them out and put in an insert to strengthen it. FN/Winchester knobs don't have that problem, so Hooper was asking him if he meant that he drills out those knobs, too.
 
#15
Re: FN Bolt Knobs

383104455.jpg


I have done the Remington installs using the drill method and they always turned out great, but I only do them now as a repair when one is snapped off. I have never had one snap off but can do them. It is best to make sure the pin snaps before the handle comes off.

The knob jointreally needs to break before the solder lets loose on the handle and it comes off rendering the rifle useless. I have seen where folks did tests on the drill and pin method where the handle snapped off the bolt before the pin broke. Not a good thing.

Winchester/ FN are done the same way. The existing knob is machined then threaded. Sux doing them and that is why it costs $90 for Hide members vs $60 for Remington.
 
#17
Re: FN Bolt Knobs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red_SC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Looks like the new knobs are bigger than the existing knobs, so I don't think you can just machine the existing knob. </div></div>

Do some reading on how different people attach bolt knobs, and you'll understand what he means. </div></div>

I thought they used jigs to thread the existing knob, or drill it and tap it. I've never actually seen it done and would like to know myself. I just thought someone was asking why you don't just modify the original knob into the shape you see the other ones in. This thread is very relevant to my interests because I'm beginning a .30-06 build on a CRF Model 70 action. </div></div>

It looks like Hooper and I have "similiar" techniques.

Here are a few pictures of some that I have done. No refinishing required. Also, something to consider. Not every bolt knob conversion will turn out perfect. The handles just have too much variation in dimensions. One side of the original knob that is turned down will flow perfectly into the new knob, while the other side might be a couple thousands off. If you put an indiator on the handle you will see it bounce all over and find every dip and high spot. Have not seen one to date that have been perfectly round from handle to knob.

With the Remington Bolt knob conversions that I perform, the bolt knobs and threaded shaft have the correct angles. They dont not cant or lean forward or sweep backwards. If you put a straight edge up to the back side of the Remington 700 handle, the threaded shaft that I machine and reenforce is parrallel to the bolt handle. You can see in these pictures below or on any bolt knob that I do. It looks like Hooper, Matt, Karl and others do a pretty good job of this, but I have seen plenty of conversions done with the new knob sticking out in the wrong direction. In addition, I reenforce the handle of a Remington 700 which greatly strengthens the handle/bolt knob joint and I have never had a failure.

I would also strongly recommend Karl at Kampfeld Customs.

Mark


DSC05000.jpg


DSC04995.jpg


IMG00012-20091103-0943.jpg



DSC05128.jpg


DSC05130.jpg


DSC05133.jpg


DSC05134.jpg


DSC03554.jpg
 
#18
Re: FN Bolt Knobs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hooper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why do you drill on them? Don't you machine the existing knob? </div></div>

I drill them for the pilot pin on a threaded insert, then TIG weld it in place. Just another way to skin a cat.

-matt
 
#19
Re: FN Bolt Knobs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: US Handgunner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Also, something to consider. Not every bolt knob conversion will turn out perfect. The handles just have too much variation in dimensions. One side of the original knob that is turned down will flow perfectly into the new knob, while the other side might be a couple thousands off. If you put an indiator on the handle you will see it bounce all over and find every dip and high spot. Have not seen one to date that have been perfectly round from handle to knob.

With the Remington Bolt knob conversions that I perform, the bolt knobs and threaded shaft have the correct angles. They dont not cant or lean forward or sweep backwards. </div></div>


Very true. The worst I have seen are Ruger handles. I think they work them over by hand on a bench grinder before shipment. Very hard to guess where the tool bit will end up because even when indicated in, it is still a guess.

From my experience, the Remington handle's sweep angle varies from about 15 degrees to close to 20 degrees. There must be several different castings they have used over the years.

For this reason, I do not have a generic jig to put them in, I indicate every one in with the angle included. It takes more time, but after doing a few hundred anyone would become more efficient.

I notice the pics I posted may show the knob appears off center on the Remington as I was showing the FN. They are centered however.

The Winchester/ FN handle is the best I have seen as far as consistent shape and angle. You just have to be sure the indicator reads the same taper on each side when setting the angle since it has a rounded tapered handle. Most are 22-23 degrees though.

Mark you do nice work and I think discussions like these improve the quality of work for everyone and it ups the expectations from the customer.
 
#21
Re: FN Bolt Knobs

any draw back to annealing a win knob first. I did one of my own once. What a pain. Ended up having to put the bolt in water the annealing the knob so I could cut it with my little mill. I won't do it again. Hooper can do it for me.
 
#22
Re: FN Bolt Knobs

Anybody have a pic of a Win/FN knob IN the stock (Mac A5 preferably but any will do).

I have been looking to do a bolt knob but can't stand how far out they stick away from the side of the stock. I'm not looking for a "handle" just a bit more contact next to the stock when doing the lift with my trigger finger. Currently running a duct tape mod as the knurling was shredding the top of my trigger finger.

Cheers,

Doc
 
#24
Re: FN Bolt Knobs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anybody have a pic of a Win/FN knob IN the stock (Mac A5 preferably but any will do).

I have been looking to do a bolt knob but can't stand how far out they stick away from the side of the stock. I'm not looking for a "handle" just a bit more contact next to the stock when doing the lift with my trigger finger. Currently running a duct tape mod as the knurling was shredding the top of my trigger finger.

Cheers,

Doc </div></div>

Here's 3 done by Randy. IMO post tac knobs are overkill if all you are looking for is a "little" more contact. I have decnt size hands and very oftern find the my trigger finger contacts the bolt when getting ready to puu the trigger.

If I were you, I would get a can of the liquid rubber dip, used to coat tools, and dip the knob repeatedly until you get the desired size.

thegirls002.jpg

 
#25
Re: FN Bolt Knobs

19Scout77,

Thanks for the come back. Concur w/ your thought (had not considered the tool dip, Great Idea!), I have meat hooks also
laugh.gif


I was kind of hoping for a "from the rear shot" to see how far they hung out the side.

OBTW, NICE Sticks!

Cheers,

Doc
 
#27
Re: FN Bolt Knobs

19Scout77,

No, I wish I couldn't clear the honey doooooo schedule among other requirements, Boy Scout Camporee Weekend, w/ OA call out, my eldest is due to be called out.

Those look pretty tight up against the stock (which is preferred). I lift with my trigger finger, if you do similar have you had any issues with them "catching" if your finger isn't on the "knob". My duct tape modification actually goes up inside the bolt cut out so there is very little gap between the stock and the thick part of the knob. With the taper on a Winny I wonder if it could be shortened "in" a bit.

Some of the Remmy's I have played with still had the corner edges from the original handle which of course doesn't feel good after driving it for a bit.

Cheers,

Doc
 
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