FN SCAR 20S vs. HK MR762A1

[DWavid]

Hello guys! Just asking for some advice on these two rifles! Which one of the two do you think is better, and why?

Thanks a lot!

FN SCAR® 20S | FN®

FN announces new advancements in the legendary FN SCAR® 20S – now chambered in the superb long range cartridge: 6.5 Creedmoor. Perfectly calibrated for long-range precision fire, the FN SCAR® 20S gives you the ability to engage targets exceeding 1,000 yards with ease. The chrome lined barrel of...

fnamerica.com

VS

MR762A1 - Heckler & Koch

 

[theLBC]

isn't the HK a 16.5" barrel?
this is going to limit your velocity and range a little bit compared to the 20" scar 20s.

 

[DocRDS]

Define "Better"

 

[Jsp556]

The one that best suits your intended use.

 

[DWavid]

isn't the HK a 16.5" barrel?
this is going to limit your velocity and range a little bit compared to the 20" scar 20s.

Idk, I think barrel length probably won't matter much under 1000yd

 

[DWavid]

Define "Better"

I meant "better" in terms of accuracy (average grouping @ 100yd, just a rough number because each shooter is different), poi shift, availability (parts, tools and stuff), and how-cool-it-looks.

 

[DWavid]

The one that best suits your intended use.

Under 1200 yards. Mainly around 800 yards.

 

[DWavid]

The votes are favoring the SCAR! (Maybe I shouldn't have provided the third and forth choices in the poll so that more people will actually choose between the two rifles.)

 

[theLBC]

The votes are favoring the SCAR! (Maybe I shouldn't have provided the third and forth choices in the poll so that more people will actually choose between the two rifles.)

either one should be good at 800 or 900, but your HK is going to go subsonic before the scar.
the scar 20s is a 1000 yd gas gun, but not quite as sure about the shorter mr762a1

 

[hk401]

I'm HK fan. But bought 20s instead. F*** HK, "They hate you". Most of their parts are ridiculous expensive. I went with the Scar 20s because their trigger are way better than HK. I think 20s look way better than HK.

 

[Blackgloves]

I have no interest in the SCAR20S, but then I also have no interest in buying other semiautomatic precision/DMR type guns.

However, it should be a good piece for someone who likes that type of guns. The regular 17S is already very accurate for a combat rifle. The 20S now sports a heavy barrel plus improved trigger mechanism and the fancy stock. Some dude at the FN Forum shot his 20S against his SR25 and the FN did not disappoint.

If I were to swing that way, I’d not hesitate to buy the 20S.

 

[Strykervet]

Bof'em.

 

[DWavid]

For people who voted neither, could you please explain why and what rifle/set up you consider the best bang for your buck?

 

[GUNNER10]

One rifle, the FN, is available in a more efficient caliber but is only available with 20 inch barrels and is 10.6lbs empty
One rifle , the HK is only available with a more practical, but less efficient, 16 inch barrel and is 10.5lbs empty

Both have good reputations but are essentially what they are.

Personally I think LMT and KAC guns work better for me. LMT's are more flexible and KAC's are lighter, and smoother shooting. Both guns suppress easier than their euro counter parts.

 

[adubeau]

I voted H&K, because the FN sales goon got his undies in a bunch and was bit of an asshole when I asked about the issues with optics not lasting on SCARs , when they were onsite at the local range/store. I just walked away shaking my head in disappointment.

 

[texag0842]

KAC or H&K

Hated my SCAR

 

[ShaoKahn]

I’d put the Scar as my third option.

1. SR-25
2. MR762
3. Scar 20

I have the MR762 and love it. Very accurate and good for 1000 yrds, depending on elevation (will not go transonic before 1000 yrds at higher elevation). The only down sides are it’s weight and cost. I have about $12K into my MR762, so $3500 is really only the entry price, but $12k is also the upper limit generally. All accessories for the MR556 and MR762 are expensive, so let’s not act surprised when you have to pony up the money for anything extra on the HK platform. It is what it is, so know that going in.

The stock trigger is pretty good on the MR762. I swapped it out for the Geissele, but the stock trigger wasn’t bad. Something to consider, the Geissele trigger for the HKs are all out of stock and I’m not sure if Geissele will continue to offer them. Just another thing to consider before buying.

It‘s also a pretty dang soft shooter for a .308. And suppressed with an OSS suppressor is a joy to shoot. Now I’m sure some of that has to do with the extra weight, but for a DMR, it works really well. Way softer shooter than the Scar.

In the end, the MR762 is fantastic for a DMR, if weight isn’t a major issue for you.

IF I were to go with a Scar 20 though, it would be 6.5.

 

[Jsp556]

I went with LMT after researching what I felt were the best modern, duty grade semi-autos available. The deciding factor was, at the time LMT bolts, carriers, barrels, small parts, etc were easily sourced and readily available through LMT directly and lots of vendors. You could buy, a like new 16” cl MWS, a 13.5” and 18” barrel, spare BCG, another spare bolt, ejectors, extractors, misc springs, etc for about the price of a KAC APC and never have to send the gun back to the mfg for anything.

 

[DWavid]

I went with LMT after researching what I felt were the best modern, duty grade semi-autos available. The deciding factor was, at the time LMT bolts, carriers, barrels, small parts, etc were easily sourced and readily available through LMT directly and lots of vendors. You could buy, a like new 16” cl MWS, a 13.5” and 18” barrel, spare BCG, another spare bolt, ejectors, extractors, misc springs, etc for about the price of a KAC APC and never have to send the gun back to the mfg for anything.

That certainly sounds nice!

 

[LawnMM]

I'd buy a JP or a Seekins before either of those if precision factory guns was my goal.

You could build something just as good for 30-50% less.

 

[camocorvette]

Voted neither.

Reason being. Given the data over the years just on SH. The LMT MWS is going to give you the best options with just alittle more weight.
Caliber swaps, barrel length swaps...

My .02

 

[thehun]

I had the LMT MWS and it is solid platform. Probably the best all-around AR10 without the KAC price tag...and delivers the same performance with a bit more gas (which an adjustable gas key cures)...I can't justify the MR762 over a SCAR 20...

I am a guy that doesn't mind a 9-10lb bare .308 semi...reason...it feels better shooting it than a snappy light weight .308...everything is a trade off and I pick shooting dynamics over chasing ounces...

I had the choice of selecting my go-to...do it all .308 some months ago and ended up with a 20S...here is why:

A) It is a "light" 20" barrel setup. I am at 9.9lbs with a loaded mag and the Mk17 fixed stock (I prefer the UGG vs the heavy SSR stock)...same weight profile as a MR762 or MWS with a 16" setup...sure as heck beats my former Mk14 EBR clone that was 14lbs.
B) It shoots 7.62X51 ball ammo extremely well...well enough where I do not mess with match ammo all that much.
C) Accuracy and reliability. The 20S barrel holds its accuracy under multiple string of fire...it does not string...with reliability to boot.
D) Ease of gas tuning. Unlike the MWS or the MR762....the SCAR has the ability to tune your gas without much fuss.

Some will say...SCAR destroys optics...it can't be suppressed..etc etc...I've had several SCARs and none have destroyed an optic...however there are cases where the SCAR has eaten optics...

Rule of thumb:

A) Buy quality mount for your optic. Mounts CANNOT BE CHEAP...they have to be 0 MOA...do not use a cantilever mount unless it has a backbone (Geissele/Leupold Mark 6 IMS) ...
B) Mount the optic/mount as rearward as possible...I see too many people having their mount very forward on SCARs where the harmonics are the worse. The 20S has a more rigid chassis so the harmonics are more than likely minimal vs the 17S.
C) Quality optics with good warranties...it is that simple. Elcans are great as their integrated mounts have backlash springs that soak up bad harmonics and punishment...but S&B, Vortex Razor, Leupy Mk5/Mk6 and other quality optics shall serve you well...yeah this means you will have to pony up to Japanese/US/Euro glass...I HIGHLY RECOMMEND ARC M10 rings!!!
D) Get a quality torque wrench for mounting optics. Proper torque goes a long way to make sure your optic is good-to-go.

But again...if you are leaning towards the MR762 more than the SCAR 20...I would just scrap that and go with a LMT MWS...

 

[GUNNER10]

I had the LMT MWS and it is solid platform. Probably the best all-around AR10 without the KAC price tag...and delivers the same performance with a bit more gas (which an adjustable gas key cures)...I can't justify the MR762 over a SCAR 20...

I am a guy that doesn't mind a 9-10lb bare .308 semi...reason...it feels better shooting it than a snappy light weight .308...everything is a trade off and I pick shooting dynamics over chasing ounces...

I had the choice of selecting my go-to...do it all .308 some months ago and ended up with a 20S...here is why:

A) It is a "light" 20" barrel setup. I am at 9.9lbs with a loaded mag and the Mk17 fixed stock (I prefer the UGG vs the heavy SSR stock)...same weight profile as a MR762 or MWS with a 16" setup...sure as heck beats my former Mk14 EBR clone that was 14lbs.
B) It shoots 7.62X51 ball ammo extremely well...well enough where I do not mess with match ammo all that much.
C) Accuracy and reliability. The 20S barrel holds its accuracy under multiple string of fire...it does not string...with reliability to boot.
D) Ease of gas tuning. Unlike the MWS or the MR762....the SCAR has the ability to tune your gas without much fuss.

Some will say...SCAR destroys optics...it can't be suppressed..etc etc...I've had several SCARs and none have destroyed an optic...however there are cases where the SCAR has eaten optics...

Rule of thumb:

A) Buy quality mount for your optic. Mounts CANNOT BE CHEAP...they have to be 0 MOA...do not use a cantilever mount unless it has a backbone (Geissele/Leupold Mark 6 IMS) ...
B) Mount the optic/mount as rearward as possible...I see too many people having their mount very forward on SCARs where the harmonics are the worse. The 20S has a more rigid chassis so the harmonics are more than likely minimal vs the 17S.
C) Quality optics with good warranties...it is that simple. Elcans are great as their integrated mounts have backlash springs that soak up bad harmonics and punishment...but S&B, Vortex Razor, Leupy Mk5/Mk6 and other quality optics shall serve you well...yeah this means you will have to pony up to Japanese/US/Euro glass...I HIGHLY RECOMMEND ARC M10 rings!!!
D) Get a quality torque wrench for mounting optics. Proper torque goes a long way to make sure your optic is good-to-go.

But again...if you are leaning towards the MR762 more than the SCAR 20...I would just scrap that and go with a LMT MWS...

I had some gassing issues with the MWS a couple years back with my 13.5 barrel, and I think at this point, running a can on the MWS is actually fairly easy to accomplish these days. With more restrictive, older cans, The BRT gas tubes are a pretty neat solutions. Obviously as mentioned, there are adjustable gas keys, The best solution out there I really think are todays latest generation of low back pressure cans. The 13.5 barrel that was violently overgassed with my GMT-300WM , had no over pressure or gas to the face issues with my Sandman. I really like low pressure cans these days.

 

[thehun]

I had some gassing issues with the MWS a couple years back with my 13.5 barrel, and I think at this point, running a can on the MWS is actually fairly easy to accomplish these days. With more restrictive, older cans, The BRT gas tubes are a pretty neat solutions. Obviously as mentioned, there are adjustable gas keys, The best solution out there I really think are todays latest generation of low back pressure cans. The 13.5 barrel that was violently overgassed with my GMT-300WM , had no over pressure or gas to the face issues with my Sandman. I really like low pressure cans these days.

Yeah I had to run a Rubber City Adjustable Gas Key...always hated it because it introduces a failure point to the simple DI system...the BRT tubes weren't available when I had my MWS...but those are solid solutions...

A 13.5" will be more violent....I've found that .308 really favors 18"-20" ... so when I started to crunch numbers and performance capabilities .... the SCAR 20 without its massive SSR stock was really spot on...dry it weighs about the same as many (not all) high-end quality AR10 platforms with 16" barrels and definitely less than their counterparts when equipped with 20" barrels ... realistically speaking as well ... its 1:12 barrel has good accuracy with ball and can hold its own against bolt guns with match ammo...

Larue OBR is another awesome platform .... it comes in at 9.5lbs with 16"....

I shot the POF Revolution...its pretty jumpy + you are compromising bolt integrity but it is liiiiiight ... their full size AR10 are a dream to fire as well and highly accurate ... was one of my favorites ... their full size piston AR10 ...

But you are right...low-pressure cans make a world of difference...

 

[DWavid]

Thanks guys! You have been so helpful!

 

[m1marty]

I have the 20s. I don't know that I could ask for a better 7.62 gasser. Very accurate with factory Mk316 and 2018/19 dated 118LR. I've snuck the 316 in to the .5s at 100m. 118 hovers around .6-.7
Trigger is fantastic, fit and finish is good, recoil, while taking a bit go get used to, is very manageable. Its pretty hefty with the ADM mount and NXS but balances well.
Shooting it directly next to the Hk (same day, same ammo) I found the trigger to be far better and rifle more accurate.
2nd pic is 5rds of 316 at 200m

 

[thehun]

20S is such a great platform. Glad you like it.

Change out the gas jet from the factory 1.4mm to 1.3mm and it will tame down a bit....some have ran 1.2mm but that to me is a bit on the edge....

 

[Black max]

Neither. Especially wouldn't drop $4k on that ugly, reciprocating charging handle turd...

 

[theLBC]

my only other experience with a .308 is my dad's winchester 88.
comparatively to me the 20S feels like shooting .38spl from a large frame .357 after shooting a few round from a .454 casull.
since the HK is piston driven, i would expect it to be relatively soft shooting for a .308 as well.

 

[Black max]

Piston driven guns have a much sharper recoil impulse that a DI rifle.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

For people who voted neither, could you please explain why and what rifle/set up you consider the best bang for your buck?

I voted neither just because I'm not a fan of the concept of a short action cartridge in a semi as a DMR type gun.
If I want to shoot paper/steel I want the shootability and size of a small frame gas gun, chambered in any of the new crop of hotter .22 or .24 calibers to get the same or better drop/drift performance as a short action rifle cartridge but with better barrel life. If I actually want enough energy to kill something at ranges beyond what a small frame AR cartridge can do I want a bolt gun to make those important shots as easy as possible.

 

[theLBC]

Piston driven guns have a much sharper recoil impulse that a DI rifle.

if you mean the smack of the bcg coming back, a lot of folks put in a smaller jet, or put in a different recoil pad.

 

[theLBC]

I voted neither just because I'm not a fan of the concept of a short action cartridge in a semi as a DMR type gun.
If I want to shoot paper/steel I want the shootability and size of a small frame gas gun, chambered in any of the new crop of hotter .22 or .24 calibers to get the same or better drop/drift performance as a short action rifle cartridge but with better barrel life. If I actually want enough energy to kill something at ranges beyond what a small frame AR cartridge can do I want a bolt gun to make those important shots as easy as possible.

that's fair, but i always considered it as more of a sniper support rifle than a true dmr, because of the size and weight.
being old and broken down, i don't give a fuck if i can ran around with it because i wouldn't run if a tsunami was coming.
no, the scar 20s was designed to be set up next to a real sniper (with a bolt gun), and sometimes follow up on a target after he takes his shot.
the size, heavy barrel, trigger and light recoil result in an extremely accurate rifle that is easy (even for me) to keep on target.
run around? no, i'll put the scar on top of a tripod and rain hell on the devil.

 

[Black max]

From my experience it was never set up next to a "real sniper".

 

[theLBC]

From my experience it was never set up next to a "real sniper".

i should have put quotes too. i used that because some folks don't believe gas guns are accurate enough to be "real sniper rifles".
i say anything used to shoot somebody from a distance could be considered a sniper's rifle.
i'm sure it could be used for more than one role, and i apologize for using references other than personal deployment with it or along side it.
i didn't mean necessarily physically next to him, but as the weapon for a spotter.

FN SCAR - SSR Mk.20 Mod.0 - Modern Firearms

FN SCAR – SSR Mk.20 Mod.0 / Sniper Support Rifle Caliber 7,62×51 NATO (.308 Win) Action Semi-automatic, gas operated Overall length 1028 mm Barrel length 508 mm Weight 5,05 kg Magazine capacity 20 rounds The FN SCAR Mk.20 Mod.0 SSR / Sniper Support Rifle is the latest offspring of the...

modernfirearms.net

MK 20 Mod 0 Sniper Support Rifle | US Special Operations | Weapons

Info on the MK 20 Mod 0 Sniper Support Rifle, a sniper rifle in use with SOCOM - more info on US special ops weapons at www.anericanspecialops.com

www.americanspecialops.com

 

[thehun]

Piston driven guns have a much sharper recoil impulse that a DI rifle.

Not entirely true...at all.

Out of the box the 16” MWS has much sharper and violence vs a SCAR 17/20...

 

[GUNNER10]

Not entirely true...at all.

Out of the box the 16” MWS has much sharper and violence vs a SCAR 17/20...

Recoil is somewhat perceptive based on the user. and it really depends on what configurations each rifle is being fired in.

Out of the box you are talking about a 9 or 10lb MWS with FH vs an 8 or 10lb Scar with a break/comp.
How would recoil be perceived if muzzle devices were the same or flipped? It just depends.

 

[hitman]

I have them both and I like my HK more. It is lighter and slightly more accurate. The HK is really amazing in my opinion.

 

[thehun]

Recoil is somewhat perceptive based on the user. and it really depends on what configurations each rifle is being fired in.

Out of the box you are talking about a 9 or 10lb MWS with FH vs an 8 or 10lb Scar with a break/comp.
How would recoil be perceived if muzzle devices were the same or flipped? It just depends.

I swap muzzle devices to my YHM suppressor and used their brake.

LMT hands down is harsher...way more over gassed...and requires a ton of tuning to get it right...

I love LMT stuff but they do tend to overgas for reliability...it’s a known fact.

 

[Khlit]

You are kind of comparing two completely different animals to be honest. Really should be 20s vs MR308 A3-28 - 20" but since HK are total dicks we cant get those sexy RAL8000 guns in the US so i guess the mr762a1 with the aftermarket g28 stock is as close as it gets. Which if its between those two the scar 20s is a better gun for precision work IMO better trigger, better stock, better barrel. I am not hating on the mr762a1s I think they a good guns and there is things I like and dislike about both the scar 20s and the mr762a1, but perhaps the best thing about the scar is that its not an AR which although I love em I like a little variety sometimes. With the HK its more or less like an AR-10 and if you are going to be dropping that kinda money on one of those for precision work the SR-25 or MWS are much better guns.
On a side note for the love of christ why are people so hung up on the reciprocating charging handle? Switch it to the other side its better in every way, the only reason you should run the charging handle on the left side is if you are left handed other than that there is virtually no advantage of running it that way.

 

[TheOE800]

I run CH on left side to charge with my left hand and leave firing hand on grip, no need to do the AK underhand charge either.

 

[Khlit]

I run CH on left side to charge with my left hand and leave firing hand on grip, no need to do the AK underhand charge either.

Hey if it works for you and you don't have any issues with it do it. Personally, I don't run it on the left because:
1. I can't jack up my thumb if I grip too far back.
2. I cant get it caught on gear when its slung up potentially causing an out of battery issue.
3. I can clear malfunctions and lock the bolt back easier.
4. I don't ak underhand it either unless its with a 17, with the 20s I take my hand of the grip and work it like a bolt gun. I know that's a sin in modern teaching but I don't care because I find it less efficient to do that with a gun as big and heavy as a 20s.
5. Assuming all is well out of 10 mags I wont use it 9/10 times because it has a bolt release which is faster than using the charging handle on either side anyway.

 

[thehun]

You are kind of comparing two completely different animals to be honest. Really should be 20s vs MR308 A3-28 - 20" but since HK are total dicks we cant get those sexy RAL8000 guns in the US so i guess the mr762a1 with the aftermarket g28 stock is as close as it gets. Which if its between those two the scar 20s is a better gun for precision work IMO better trigger, better stock, better barrel. I am not hating on the mr762a1s I think they a good guns and there is things I like and dislike about both the scar 20s and the mr762a1, but perhaps the best thing about the scar is that its not an AR which although I love em I like a little variety sometimes. With the HK its more or less like an AR-10 and if you are going to be dropping that kinda money on one of those for precision work the SR-25 or MWS are much better guns.
On a side note for the love of christ why are people so hung up on the reciprocating charging handle? Switch it to the other side its better in every way, the only reason you should run the charging handle on the left side is if you are left handed other than that there is virtually no advantage of running it that way.

Why do people get hung up on it...I tell you why...because some that can't afford it or aren't trained with a system go on a rampage on disapproving it...then they sit on the interwebs reading about some soldier having this and that issue...that gets blown up and spread all over the net...they will find YT videos and find the "ONE"...why seals hate SCARS...

 

[4thandbleek]

Skip the SCAR and H&K buy a LMT MWS.

 

[mewillis]

I've had the first Gen. HK with the OSS supressor, and the Scar 17, sold both. The 20 is the same basic rifle no matter what.
Here is my take;
HK= beautiful workmanship, design QC and typical HK engineering. Problem is no adustable GB therefore overgassed and no factory fix. All parts including the grip are proprietary, expensive and when I had mine parts were very difficult to find. SOLD
FN= very soft shooter, lightweight, beautiful and typical FN design. When I had mine/2 I had trouble finding spare parts. Then FN came out and tried to deny the rifle didn't have a supressed/unsupressed mode. They even denied warranty work if you had carrier issues which many did despite the obvious. The factory manual didn't even show the adjustable gas block, only the .mil version did. SOLD
I cannot own or support BS from any manufacture who denies issues. Blowing smoke is never a good solid platform to own. YMMV

 

[theLBC]

KAC SR25 ECR/M110 or FNH Scar 20s?

Alright guys, Interesting topic (i think). For DMR work (7.62 inside 850M), which of the two is the best? I am considering purchasing one of the two platforms, however am not tied to either brand. The KAC would be around $6000 all kitted out to resemble an M110 while the Scar 20s would be...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Wizard1183]

Hello guys! Just asking for some advice on these two rifles! Which one of the two do you think is better, and why?

Thanks a lot!

View attachment 7513791

FN SCAR® 20S | FN®

FN announces new advancements in the legendary FN SCAR® 20S – now chambered in the superb long range cartridge: 6.5 Creedmoor. Perfectly calibrated for long-range precision fire, the FN SCAR® 20S gives you the ability to engage targets exceeding 1,000 yards with ease. The chrome lined barrel of...

fnamerica.com

VS

View attachment 7513793

MR762A1 - Heckler & Koch

HK looks like every other typical AR

 

[Wizard1183]

I've had the first Gen. HK with the OSS supressor, and the Scar 17, sold both. The 20 is the same basic rifle no matter what.
Here is my take;
HK= beautiful workmanship, design QC and typical HK engineering. Problem is no adustable GB therefore overgassed and no factory fix. All parts including the grip are proprietary, expensive and when I had mine parts were very difficult to find. SOLD
FN= very soft shooter, lightweight, beautiful and typical FN design. When I had mine/2 I had trouble finding spare parts. Then FN came out and tried to deny the rifle didn't have a supressed/unsupressed mode. They even denied warranty work if you had carrier issues which many did despite the obvious. The factory manual didn't even show the adjustable gas block, only the .mil version did. SOLD
I cannot own or support BS from any manufacture who denies issues. Blowing smoke is never a good solid platform to own. YMMV

If you go suppressed with Scar you void warranty. Period. States that.

 

[mewillis]

If you go suppressed with Scar you void warranty. Period. States that.

That must be a new thing, mine were the first Gen. 17's and it did not say that in the manual. The military manual spoke about the adjustable gas block specifically about silencer use. FN also sold factory jets to "tune" your rifle. But that's my point, you have a company making a rifle they refuse to support. HK used to do the same BS claiming you had to use an "authorized" supressor of which there was 1 being KAC or your warranty was void.

 

[Wizard1183]

Well. Hey if it’s suppressed and breaks? If they give you any crap? Who’s fault is it? I mean is it ok to put an oil filter on the front? Lol that’s kinda like putting headers on a car and tuning it. Factory doesn’t have to acknowledge if that’s what caused the issues.