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For a single shot 1500 meters
- Thread starter Benchshoot
- Start date
Re: For a single shot 1500 meters
At 1500 meters, you can get there with the 300 wm, or 300 WSM. However, you must use the right bullet and the right condition. You are at the upper ceiling of those cartridges for reaching the target. Now, you can fire 20 rounds and hit one time, but I don't count that in my book. What I am trying to say is at that distance, a reliable cartridge that deliver the lead accurately and consistently is going to be the 338 LM in my book. Don't have experience in the 325 WSM to make any comments.
Also, with the WSM family, you need a longer throat to get the high BC bullets. Just saying.
At 1500 meters, you can get there with the 300 wm, or 300 WSM. However, you must use the right bullet and the right condition. You are at the upper ceiling of those cartridges for reaching the target. Now, you can fire 20 rounds and hit one time, but I don't count that in my book. What I am trying to say is at that distance, a reliable cartridge that deliver the lead accurately and consistently is going to be the 338 LM in my book. Don't have experience in the 325 WSM to make any comments.
Also, with the WSM family, you need a longer throat to get the high BC bullets. Just saying.
Re: For a single shot 1500 meters
I'd love to have any of those but the funds won't allow it. I feel fairly confident with my 308 at 1000 yards. I'm no world record breaker but I can shoot fairly well.
Thanks for your input
I'd love to have any of those but the funds won't allow it. I feel fairly confident with my 308 at 1000 yards. I'm no world record breaker but I can shoot fairly well.
Thanks for your input
Re: For a single shot 1500 meters
.338LM....Expensive to shoot but really hard to beat. Ive shot mine with good results out to 1650 meters.
.338LM....Expensive to shoot but really hard to beat. Ive shot mine with good results out to 1650 meters.
Re: For a single shot 1500 meters
Answer's are bound by the limitation of choices..... 338 LM or the 300 wm. Can launch the 240's accurate out to a mile no problem.
Answer's are bound by the limitation of choices..... 338 LM or the 300 wm. Can launch the 240's accurate out to a mile no problem.
Re: For a single shot 1500 meters
if you would consider it a 7wsm is a great choice but if your set on your listed options go 338lm but will cost twice as much as a 7wsm. i personally dont have a 7wsm but i'm in the process of having one built and i currently own a 338 and love it so just my 2 cents
if you would consider it a 7wsm is a great choice but if your set on your listed options go 338lm but will cost twice as much as a 7wsm. i personally dont have a 7wsm but i'm in the process of having one built and i currently own a 338 and love it so just my 2 cents
Re: For a single shot 1500 meters
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.338LM....Expensive to shoot but really hard to beat. Ive shot mine with good results out to 1650 meters.</div></div>
.338 seems to be the best choice, albeit a little bit on the pricey side but this is a passion not just a hobby.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.338LM....Expensive to shoot but really hard to beat. Ive shot mine with good results out to 1650 meters.</div></div>
.338 seems to be the best choice, albeit a little bit on the pricey side but this is a passion not just a hobby.
Re: For a single shot 1500 meters
you know I've been thinking of getting a .338 lapua mag but I really can't justify it.. my .300 wm does all that I want and more
for a 1st round hit at 1500 meters you want the .338 LM, at that range .300 wm is starting to go transonic and is going to lose consistency
you know I've been thinking of getting a .338 lapua mag but I really can't justify it.. my .300 wm does all that I want and more
for a 1st round hit at 1500 meters you want the .338 LM, at that range .300 wm is starting to go transonic and is going to lose consistency
Re: For a single shot 1500 meters
338/416 without a doubt. I know, it's 338 Lapua Magnum, but Lapua didn't develop that cat. Thankfully, they did pick it up and run with it when US manufacturers were blind and missed the chance.
Supersonic range is the key difference. 338 Lap Mag is supersonic for 1750 at standard air conditions. But with your target range of 1500 meters if it's colder that 20 degrees outside, or the air pressure is up, you bullet will be end over end at 1500 meters, huge loss of accuracy. The 300 MK is NOT the king of long range in 338 Lapua, several solids out there get close to 2000 yards in the 338/41.
Given choices, i'd rather shoot the 250 gr. Lapua FMJBT, same supersonic range as the 300 gr. Sierra MK, a little faster, and frankly a more accurate bullet. Have been using them both (heavy favor to the 250 gr. lapua FMJBT) since 1988 in 338/416s (which I proudly still have one in THAT chambering.
JF Comfort is right, at 1500 meters, ALL of other bullets are transonic at SAC, BUT the Sierra 300 gr. pill is starting to transition. The difference is that when the 300 gr. gets unstable, it tumbles, and is radically unpredictable. The 250 gr. Lapua FMJBT is yawing, but handles the transition suprisingly well.
Trigger
338/416 without a doubt. I know, it's 338 Lapua Magnum, but Lapua didn't develop that cat. Thankfully, they did pick it up and run with it when US manufacturers were blind and missed the chance.
Supersonic range is the key difference. 338 Lap Mag is supersonic for 1750 at standard air conditions. But with your target range of 1500 meters if it's colder that 20 degrees outside, or the air pressure is up, you bullet will be end over end at 1500 meters, huge loss of accuracy. The 300 MK is NOT the king of long range in 338 Lapua, several solids out there get close to 2000 yards in the 338/41.
Given choices, i'd rather shoot the 250 gr. Lapua FMJBT, same supersonic range as the 300 gr. Sierra MK, a little faster, and frankly a more accurate bullet. Have been using them both (heavy favor to the 250 gr. lapua FMJBT) since 1988 in 338/416s (which I proudly still have one in THAT chambering.
JF Comfort is right, at 1500 meters, ALL of other bullets are transonic at SAC, BUT the Sierra 300 gr. pill is starting to transition. The difference is that when the 300 gr. gets unstable, it tumbles, and is radically unpredictable. The 250 gr. Lapua FMJBT is yawing, but handles the transition suprisingly well.
Trigger
Re: For a single shot 1500 meters
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Benchshoot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These are the choices
338 Lapua
300 Win Mag
300 WSM
325 WSM </div></div>
limited to these 338 lapua is the way to go, great round
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Benchshoot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These are the choices
338 Lapua
300 Win Mag
300 WSM
325 WSM </div></div>
limited to these 338 lapua is the way to go, great round
Re: For a single shot 1500 meters
Interesting article at www.6mmbr.com on the 300 Lapua. It is actually a factory round now in Europe. I bet you can send 210-240 bullets WELL over 3000 fps.
Interesting article at www.6mmbr.com on the 300 Lapua. It is actually a factory round now in Europe. I bet you can send 210-240 bullets WELL over 3000 fps.
Re: For a single shot 1500 meters
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Triggerfifty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">338/416 without a doubt. I know, it's 338 Lapua Magnum, but Lapua didn't develop that cat. Thankfully, they did pick it up and run with it when US manufacturers were blind and missed the chance.
Supersonic range is the key difference. 338 Lap Mag is supersonic for 1750 at standard air conditions. But with your target range of 1500 meters if it's colder that 20 degrees outside, or the air pressure is up, you bullet will be end over end at 1500 meters, huge loss of accuracy. The 300 MK is NOT the king of long range in 338 Lapua, several solids out there get close to 2000 yards in the 338/41.
Given choices, i'd rather shoot the 250 gr. Lapua FMJBT, same supersonic range as the 300 gr. Sierra MK, a little faster, and frankly a more accurate bullet. Have been using them both (heavy favor to the 250 gr. lapua FMJBT) since 1988 in 338/416s (which I proudly still have one in THAT chambering.
JF Comfort is right, at 1500 meters, ALL of other bullets are transonic at SAC, BUT the Sierra 300 gr. pill is starting to transition. The difference is that when the 300 gr. gets unstable, it tumbles, and is radically unpredictable. The 250 gr. Lapua FMJBT is yawing, but handles the transition suprisingly well.
Trigger </div></div>
Triggerfifty,
what is the ideal barrel length for shooting the 338 Lapua Magnum at maximum range? What barrel maker, contour and length would you choose?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Triggerfifty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">338/416 without a doubt. I know, it's 338 Lapua Magnum, but Lapua didn't develop that cat. Thankfully, they did pick it up and run with it when US manufacturers were blind and missed the chance.
Supersonic range is the key difference. 338 Lap Mag is supersonic for 1750 at standard air conditions. But with your target range of 1500 meters if it's colder that 20 degrees outside, or the air pressure is up, you bullet will be end over end at 1500 meters, huge loss of accuracy. The 300 MK is NOT the king of long range in 338 Lapua, several solids out there get close to 2000 yards in the 338/41.
Given choices, i'd rather shoot the 250 gr. Lapua FMJBT, same supersonic range as the 300 gr. Sierra MK, a little faster, and frankly a more accurate bullet. Have been using them both (heavy favor to the 250 gr. lapua FMJBT) since 1988 in 338/416s (which I proudly still have one in THAT chambering.
JF Comfort is right, at 1500 meters, ALL of other bullets are transonic at SAC, BUT the Sierra 300 gr. pill is starting to transition. The difference is that when the 300 gr. gets unstable, it tumbles, and is radically unpredictable. The 250 gr. Lapua FMJBT is yawing, but handles the transition suprisingly well.
Trigger </div></div>
Triggerfifty,
what is the ideal barrel length for shooting the 338 Lapua Magnum at maximum range? What barrel maker, contour and length would you choose?
Re: For a single shot 1500 meters
Sure,
Assuming a couple of things, using 350 gr. Lapua or 300 gr. Sierra MK bullets. I'd use a Lawton, Krieger, Obermeyer, H&S Precision (K&P), Schneider or any known CUT rifled barrel. 1:10" twist. 29" long,1.3 at the chamber for 4" then tapered to a muzzle of 1.1, 10 deg target (not recessed) crown. Fluted, I know, it's arguable, but that's what i'd do.
Without consideration to the Lapua or the Sierra bullet, i'd shoot 270 gr. LRBT/HOOKER/CheyTac solids in a Lawton barrel. Same barrel length as above. Whatever the capable velocity, i'd never shoot harder than 3000 fps due to the changing shape of the trajectory at > 3000 fps speeds and throat erosion due to heat issues.
My .02 since I was asked, I love the 338 cartridge, but most of the discussion on what it's range is (1600 meters), is 98% of the supersonic range of that cartridge, it's the same thing as talking about the 175 gr. SMK out of a 308 at about 1050 yards downrange. Too damn close to transition to me, I want some slop range to make errors with.
Trigger
Sure,
Assuming a couple of things, using 350 gr. Lapua or 300 gr. Sierra MK bullets. I'd use a Lawton, Krieger, Obermeyer, H&S Precision (K&P), Schneider or any known CUT rifled barrel. 1:10" twist. 29" long,1.3 at the chamber for 4" then tapered to a muzzle of 1.1, 10 deg target (not recessed) crown. Fluted, I know, it's arguable, but that's what i'd do.
Without consideration to the Lapua or the Sierra bullet, i'd shoot 270 gr. LRBT/HOOKER/CheyTac solids in a Lawton barrel. Same barrel length as above. Whatever the capable velocity, i'd never shoot harder than 3000 fps due to the changing shape of the trajectory at > 3000 fps speeds and throat erosion due to heat issues.
My .02 since I was asked, I love the 338 cartridge, but most of the discussion on what it's range is (1600 meters), is 98% of the supersonic range of that cartridge, it's the same thing as talking about the 175 gr. SMK out of a 308 at about 1050 yards downrange. Too damn close to transition to me, I want some slop range to make errors with.
Trigger
Re: For a single shot 1500 meters
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Triggerfifty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sure,
Assuming a couple of things, using 350 gr. Lapua or 300 gr. Sierra MK bullets. I'd use a Lawton, Krieger, Obermeyer, H&S Precision (K&P), Schneider or any known CUT rifled barrel. 1:10" twist. 29" long,1.3 at the chamber for 4" then tapered to a muzzle of 1.1, 10 deg target (not recessed) crown. Fluted, I know, it's arguable, but that's what i'd do.
Without consideration to the Lapua or the Sierra bullet, i'd shoot 270 gr. LRBT/HOOKER/CheyTac solids in a Lawton barrel. Same barrel length as above. Whatever the capable velocity, i'd never shoot harder than 3000 fps due to the changing shape of the trajectory at > 3000 fps speeds and throat erosion due to heat issues.
My .02 since I was asked, I love the 338 cartridge, <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">but most of the discussion on what it's range is (1600 meters), is 98% of the supersonic range of that cartridge, it's the same thing as talking about the 175 gr. SMK out of a 308 at about 1050 yards downrange. Too damn close to transition to me, I want some slop range to make errors with.</span></span>
Trigger </div></div>
so what is that next step up from the 338 Lapua Magnum that <span style="font-weight: bold">YOU</span> would go with? Is that the .375/408 CheyTac? Or something else entirely? Of course, what would be the "recipe" that you would use for a better rifle build for 1500 meters and beyond?
Many thanks!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Triggerfifty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sure,
Assuming a couple of things, using 350 gr. Lapua or 300 gr. Sierra MK bullets. I'd use a Lawton, Krieger, Obermeyer, H&S Precision (K&P), Schneider or any known CUT rifled barrel. 1:10" twist. 29" long,1.3 at the chamber for 4" then tapered to a muzzle of 1.1, 10 deg target (not recessed) crown. Fluted, I know, it's arguable, but that's what i'd do.
Without consideration to the Lapua or the Sierra bullet, i'd shoot 270 gr. LRBT/HOOKER/CheyTac solids in a Lawton barrel. Same barrel length as above. Whatever the capable velocity, i'd never shoot harder than 3000 fps due to the changing shape of the trajectory at > 3000 fps speeds and throat erosion due to heat issues.
My .02 since I was asked, I love the 338 cartridge, <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">but most of the discussion on what it's range is (1600 meters), is 98% of the supersonic range of that cartridge, it's the same thing as talking about the 175 gr. SMK out of a 308 at about 1050 yards downrange. Too damn close to transition to me, I want some slop range to make errors with.</span></span>
Trigger </div></div>
so what is that next step up from the 338 Lapua Magnum that <span style="font-weight: bold">YOU</span> would go with? Is that the .375/408 CheyTac? Or something else entirely? Of course, what would be the "recipe" that you would use for a better rifle build for 1500 meters and beyond?
Many thanks!
Re: For a single shot 1500 meters
Hmm,, thought long and hard about this one. I'd go with a known great one, the 375 CheyTac. I built two of these in 06 before going back to school. They were supersonic here in Idaho to just short of 3000 yards. Hellish accurate rifles.
I'd build it the same way I built those two:
TAC50 Modified stock, using the CheyTac bipod that i'm doing the stocks on for guys. It would have a modified grip angle and ergonomics, wider front end and extended about 5-6". I'd use a 3 way adjustable buttplate WITHOUT a shock absorbing buttpad.
Lawton 8000 barreled action, SINGLE SHOT, no repeater.
29.5" long, fluted and turned for an OPSINC suppressor.
Shilen trigger, with a single set Kiplinger trigger added.
No safety. (sorry, if the bolt handle isn't down, i've got nothing to shoot at, old habit)
Optics: Either a S&B with 100 MOA elevation travel and a base machined so that at a 100 yd. zero, there' be 6 MOA left to go down on the scope.
Nightforce rings, or Badger, remachined if needed, (a blueprinting) so to speak.
or
A trick version of the US Optics SN9 i've been beating around with on paper. Only need 100 MOA, but the rear eye piece is offset DOWN like how the old M-49 spotting scopes are done. This allows the shooter to have his face down lower on the stock at higher sight elevations. Benefits are obvious.
This is a CAD drawing of a prototype rifle that wasn't built. It shows the layout of the scope setup, this of course existed before the Cheytac bipod layout I came up with in 2001. Now if only someone would run with this concept
As for the ultimate long range gun, something that would go maybe 4000 yards supersonic... no maybe about it, it would.
15.5mm x 104
1200 gr. UVLD projectiles.
3300 fps MV
All metal chassis system, simliar to McCrees, but quite a bit different in execution.
Gyro stabilized to reduce shooter "shake".
Scope is a whole nother story
How's that for fantasy?
Trigger
Hmm,, thought long and hard about this one. I'd go with a known great one, the 375 CheyTac. I built two of these in 06 before going back to school. They were supersonic here in Idaho to just short of 3000 yards. Hellish accurate rifles.
I'd build it the same way I built those two:
TAC50 Modified stock, using the CheyTac bipod that i'm doing the stocks on for guys. It would have a modified grip angle and ergonomics, wider front end and extended about 5-6". I'd use a 3 way adjustable buttplate WITHOUT a shock absorbing buttpad.
Lawton 8000 barreled action, SINGLE SHOT, no repeater.
29.5" long, fluted and turned for an OPSINC suppressor.
Shilen trigger, with a single set Kiplinger trigger added.
No safety. (sorry, if the bolt handle isn't down, i've got nothing to shoot at, old habit)
Optics: Either a S&B with 100 MOA elevation travel and a base machined so that at a 100 yd. zero, there' be 6 MOA left to go down on the scope.
Nightforce rings, or Badger, remachined if needed, (a blueprinting) so to speak.
or
A trick version of the US Optics SN9 i've been beating around with on paper. Only need 100 MOA, but the rear eye piece is offset DOWN like how the old M-49 spotting scopes are done. This allows the shooter to have his face down lower on the stock at higher sight elevations. Benefits are obvious.
This is a CAD drawing of a prototype rifle that wasn't built. It shows the layout of the scope setup, this of course existed before the Cheytac bipod layout I came up with in 2001. Now if only someone would run with this concept
As for the ultimate long range gun, something that would go maybe 4000 yards supersonic... no maybe about it, it would.
15.5mm x 104
1200 gr. UVLD projectiles.
3300 fps MV
All metal chassis system, simliar to McCrees, but quite a bit different in execution.
Gyro stabilized to reduce shooter "shake".
Scope is a whole nother story
How's that for fantasy?
Trigger
Re: For a single shot 1500 meters
Triggerfifty,
Thank you so VERY much! You're a great Instructor as well as Shooter.
So for tactical engagements past 1500 meters your recipe is:
375 CheyTac
TAC50 Modified stock
CheyTac bipod
Lawton 8000 barreled action, SINGLE SHOT, no repeater.
29.5" long, fluted and turned for an OPSINC suppressor. (what twist?)
Shilen trigger, with a single set Kiplinger trigger added. (do you have pictures of this? I've never heard of the combination of the two).
Schmidt & Bender scope -or- a custom built US Optics SN9
Scope must have at least 100 MOA of Elevation
(how much windage would you recommend and how would you go about getting <span style="font-weight: bold">extra windage</span> if you needed it?)
What Reticle do you like?
Nightforce or Badger blueprinted rings.
Fantastic! Once again, many thanks!
Triggerfifty,
Thank you so VERY much! You're a great Instructor as well as Shooter.
So for tactical engagements past 1500 meters your recipe is:
375 CheyTac
TAC50 Modified stock
CheyTac bipod
Lawton 8000 barreled action, SINGLE SHOT, no repeater.
29.5" long, fluted and turned for an OPSINC suppressor. (what twist?)
Shilen trigger, with a single set Kiplinger trigger added. (do you have pictures of this? I've never heard of the combination of the two).
Schmidt & Bender scope -or- a custom built US Optics SN9
Scope must have at least 100 MOA of Elevation
(how much windage would you recommend and how would you go about getting <span style="font-weight: bold">extra windage</span> if you needed it?)
What Reticle do you like?
Nightforce or Badger blueprinted rings.
Fantastic! Once again, many thanks!
Re: For a single shot 1500 meters
Thanks for the compliment, I have only what He allows...
Trigger
Thanks for the compliment, I have only what He allows...
Trigger
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