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For those of you who don't yet understand this whole "vaccination" scare is just about Government tyrany
- Thread starter W54/XM-388
- Start date
How does that same argument work for all the vaccinated kids always running around with the flu?
Interesting debate.
For the anti-vax folks who argue that they'll take their chances because the disease rate is already so low (builds character, makes mah kid tougher, etc), do you ask why the disease rate is so low? IT's primarily due to mass vaccinations. To say "I'll take mah changes with mah kid" is a bit disingenuous. You only live in a place free of disease because there are so many vaccinated people here.
There used to be massive outbreaks in cities that would bring shit to a halt for weeks.
For the anti-vax folks who argue that they'll take their chances because the disease rate is already so low (builds character, makes mah kid tougher, etc), do you ask why the disease rate is so low? IT's primarily due to mass vaccinations. To say "I'll take mah changes with mah kid" is a bit disingenuous. You only live in a place free of disease because there are so many vaccinated people here.
There used to be massive outbreaks in cities that would bring shit to a halt for weeks.
Sorry but the flu vaccine has only about a 50% chance of being effective at any given year against what is going around. so nope it's not going to save the weak of the herd. I'd suggest if your "elderly parent" is that weak that they won't recover from a flu, they may want to not be hanging out around folks who could get sick.
Not sure if serious?
Lambasts people as sheeple, pathetic, etc for vaccinating.
Provides reasons for not vaccinating kids.
If vaccination is so bad why on earth would you subject your kids to it?!?!?!?!?
Just let them get the diseases and have their immune systems take care of it...
Goes ahead and vaccinates anyway.
More correctly it would be, are you setup and prepared for one parent to stay home for a week or two or possibly up to 3 straight, taking care of the children 24x7?
Getting sick, especially when you have multiple kids and depending on things, you may be riding through several waves of it, can be seriously time consuming. Back in the old days, people understood this & were prepared for it, but these days most people would find it really messes up their lives & livelihoods.
Herd immunity is a thing. Folks who are truly unable to be vaccinated (children below a certain age and many adults with problems) rely on all us normals to be vaccinated, to avoid exposure. When the % vaccinated falls below a fairly high number (depends on the disease), folks get sick, and the ones who can’t vaccinate are usually the weakest, and at greatest risk of a bad ending. Sometimes vaccines aren’t super effective (mumps is only 88%), so high vaccination rates are even more important. My kids and I get our shots for them, as much as for ourselves.
While there are risks with any medicine, modern vaccinations are on the whole extremely safe.
While there are risks with any medicine, modern vaccinations are on the whole extremely safe.
If that's what you like, go for it, but I'm not about to make decisions on health and side effects based on what other people can't do.
Sorry but saying the government should force people do do something against their will to protect those who supposedly "can't" do it is a bit rich.
Let me guess, send a squad to kick in your door and take your peanut butter because somebody in the city might be allergic to it (And their are some interesting questions about why this sudden rise in allergies that is unprecedented).
Perhaps those folks could play the odds themselves and either get vaccinated & deal with the risk, or not get vaccinated and deal with the risk.. you know like the rest of us, or just stay home.
Sure thing and by all means, those who believe in that should not get any vaccinations. At the same time, they should not be afforded any insurance coverage or welfare stemming from diseases which are preventable via vaccinations. It's that easy.There are proven and not yet understood dangers with vaccines.
Know the Risks | National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC)
Learn about making informed vaccination decisions by understanding vaccine risks and failures.www.nvic.org
Just as having a history of DUI or reckless driving gets you prohibited from many insurance companies, the same should be the case for those who choose to avoid vaccinations.
Nope, no reason to get your kids vaccinated for polio. The last one? Dallas Texas 1950, not that far away in time or space.
Nope, no reason to get your kids vaccinated for polio. The last one? Dallas Texas 1950, not that far away in time or space.
And, particularly in hindsight, as those children got older, do you think any one of them would not have chosen the vaccine if it were their decision alone ?
That is not a believe in, not believe in item. To surmise,[since you didn't read it] Vaccine injuries happen, after multiple studies, it appears we may be able to tell who is in the most danger. It might be smart to take an approach other than just injecting everyone.
Duh, right?
So does that mean they can get lower rates on insurance and taxes since business / government won't be paying out for those issues as compared to those?
And what about if those people get sick by being exposed to illegal aliens in this country illegally who the government refuses to stop from coming in and refuses to deport? I'm assuming the government should pay out for them in that case since, well by the same logic, it would have been easy for the government to just you know enforce immigration law and they wouldn't have gotten sick but the government choose not to.
I think it is important to once again repeat that this whole "crisis" and these "epidemics" that are driving all this hysteria is primarily due to us letting illegal immigrants from every disease ridden country in the world illegally come into our country & stay here and forcing schools & cities to let their sick & unvaccinated kids have free reign to sicken everyone else.
Same but opposite for people injured by vaccines.
National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program | Official web site of ...https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/index.html
Q
QuickNDirty
Guest
No picture, but imagine a kid with a heartbeat one minute and none the next.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/10/health/samoa-mmr-baby-deaths-intl/index.html
And then there's this:
https://healthimpactnews.com/2014/judge-lawsuit-against-mercks-mmr-vaccine-fraud-to-continue/
I'm personally extremely supportive of the theory of vaccines, but I don't trust fucking anyone anymore....
With hospitals, labs, etc chock full of 3rd world retards, the possibility for a bad batch is significantly non-zero, combined with a desire for tons of money with no recourse for fuckups? That's not confidence inspiring to me at all.
I'm not on the level of the Congo fuckers, but where we've seen countries outright ban certain vaccines because they either did the opposite of the claims or the consequences were worse than the disease they aimed to prevent... Yeah, just like with all the other shit going on in foreign countries, that's gonna be here sooner rather than later.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-ebola-response-as-cases-climb-idUSKCN1R82QW
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/10/health/samoa-mmr-baby-deaths-intl/index.html
And then there's this:
https://healthimpactnews.com/2014/judge-lawsuit-against-mercks-mmr-vaccine-fraud-to-continue/
I'm personally extremely supportive of the theory of vaccines, but I don't trust fucking anyone anymore....
With hospitals, labs, etc chock full of 3rd world retards, the possibility for a bad batch is significantly non-zero, combined with a desire for tons of money with no recourse for fuckups? That's not confidence inspiring to me at all.
I'm not on the level of the Congo fuckers, but where we've seen countries outright ban certain vaccines because they either did the opposite of the claims or the consequences were worse than the disease they aimed to prevent... Yeah, just like with all the other shit going on in foreign countries, that's gonna be here sooner rather than later.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-ebola-response-as-cases-climb-idUSKCN1R82QW
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That's heartbreaking, as are all the other examples of that happening. (Super, I would give you a "like" for the quality of your post, but I don't want the "like" to be mis-interpreted).
I'm not here to argue pro or con. This topic seems to be more emotionally charged than that of abortion. I have my thoughts and beliefs, but for the most part, I wish to keep them to myself. For me (and only for me) I will continue to get vaccines whenever necessary. I have zero expectation that anyone else follow suit. It is an individual decision. However, I do believe that an individual does have a responsibility to live with the potential consequences of their decision, whichever one they make.
It is unfortunate, as I do believe that the whole subject has been commercialized, such that which ever side of the fence one is on, innocents have been made to suffer.
My thoughts on the situation. I will put then here one more time.
Vaccine injuries happen, after multiple studies, it appears we may be able to tell who is in the most danger. It might be smart to take an approach other than just injecting everyone.
Read the numbers in your own link. From '06-'17, there were 4250 compensated claims for 3.5 billion doses of vaccines. Yeah, that's a "duh" moment for sure. I'll take those odds.
Anyone can feel free to choose their own path, just know I want to pay zero for anyone's unvaccinated illness as much as I want to pay zero for their unprotected pregnancy or abortion, as well as zero for their drug and alcohol addiction treatment. People need to learn to live with their own failures as much as they do with their own successes.
In the meantime, I get my shots. Just got a tetanus shot last month as I deal with some seriously dirty shit at work and at play, and there's no way I want to contract that illness, I'm also up to date on many other non-typical vaccinations for my overseas traveling habit. I also carry a handgun for protection, wear my seatbelt and drive defensively, wore a condom when I was chasing skirts, carried an M4 at all times while I was overseas contracting, lock my doors at night, and keep my head on a swivel. Life is dangerous enough while being protective, I'm not going to ignorantly introduce additional risks that I can easily mitigate.
Not that simple.
Because we need Herd Vaccination, and it only really works when everyone has it. If the disease makes a comeback, you can still get sick, it just may or may not be as worse (depending on how it evolves once it becomes popular again). Flu shots work best when everyone else has one. So you want everyone to have it, but they're listening to that ignorant cunt Jenny McCartney and not doing it. Part of the super mom elite helicopter parent shit. Doesn't cause autism, been proven that was a hoax, but they still just won't listen...
But the cops getting involved? All that did was ensure they won't ever take those kids to a doctor, they'll go DIY that shit first. Great.
You want to pay zero for everyone else. ??
My link. LOL. I wish I owned the internet.
That is your choice to choose those odds. Not your choice to force them on others. Not to mention with some testing we can tell who those vulnerable peoples are.
Nope instead we give the vaccine makers a free pass, let the tax payer pay the damages, and try to sweep them under the rug as though they don't happen.
I wonder how manu things you benefit from, that others help pay for.
So you want to pay zero for everyone else. Why are you OK with paying for vaccine injuries?
Are we 30 doses of vaccine healthier as a society since 1983?
All or nothing is rarely the best approach.
Most of y’all know better than to trust your government.. but you’ll trust that the cdc doesn’t unnecessarily put heavy metals and toxins in vaccines? Who owns the patent on Ebola? Why was that missionary with a different strain of Ebola flown back to America for treatment? NO ONE is gonna take away my rights to choose.
Chandler police remove kids from home after sick child not taken to hospital
Chandler police had to force entry into a home to check on a toddler who was suffering from a potentially life-threatening fever.
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Sounds like your elderly parent wasn’t vaxxed.. you should go tell them how to live their life..
Department of Family Services, Child Services, Health & Welfare.... whatever the hell they want to call themselves are bad news. They don't follow normal lawful procedures and don't have to disclose their methods, yet they can go to extreme lengths "to protect the children". They have a job to do but seem to do as much harm as good unfortunately. With the illegals bringing in previously eradicated diseases, vaccines are going to be needed.
We need to learn our rights and exercise our rights or more of this type of thing will be happening.
We need to learn our rights and exercise our rights or more of this type of thing will be happening.
Damned ironic that they are so worried about them.
Before they're born they sure as hell aren't.
R
Sorry, "The link you provided." Feel better? I don't care either way...
I said, multiple times and very plainly, that the choice should be on the individual. Never once did I say it should be forced. I just added insurance companies should also not be forced to cover them for those same diseases. Pretty simple and in line with freedom for all, right? But how very Obamacare of you for wanting every insurance company to be forced to cover things that are easily avoided. See, I can infer shit too.
I pay plenty into the pot, taxes every year since I was thirteen on top of fourteen years spent in uniform, and I take my share back from those contributions. That's part of being a citizen.
As for payment for vaccine injuries distributed by VICP, that is funded by a $0.75/dose tax paid by the manufacturers to the treasury, so assuming that is built into the cost the same way all corporate taxes are, basically it's funded by all those paying to get vaccines.
Shit, I was so rooting for the Bush social security plan to go through where we would have the option to forego at least a bit of our FICA contributions into that plan in lieu of secured investments, but the rest of the RINOs sided with Pelosi and killed that one off. I would love for the same for medicare as well. As for taxes, mine only go to DoD, or at least I tell myself that to help me sleep better at night.
The Flu is a "Best Effort" vaccine. Sometimes it covers really well and sometimes not. For whoever stated that my parents were not vaccinated. That's just a little short sighted. Also, everyone here, at one time or another, will have older family members who will be fragile......If they are "lucky". I've seen more than once where Non-Vaccinated grandkids are not allowed around fragile grandparents who are just trying to stay strong enough to stay in their own house and out of the nursing home. Who wants to let that "One" child take a chance at shortening their parents valuable life at home by letting unvaccinated little snots come around spreading disease.
I know a 87 year old homesteader that was never vaccinated and is healthier than 50 year olds I’ve met. Still rides a 4wheeler and snow machine. The points your missing is it’s MY CHOICE. Read up on how Rockefeller, his oil byproducts, and his money started the fda, how they virtually eliminated natural remidies, how people have treated cancer without doctors, then let’s talk.
really, science says guns kill people , u good with that. how about global warming?
My step mother tried the holistic approach in treating my half brother, wasn't until he pinged a 105°F fever from the diagnosed meningitis she was trying to treat with essential oils that she finally decided to take him back to the doctor. He lived, barely, and fortunately the fever and resulting coma he was in didn't hold him back from getting his degree in CompSci.
I'm a much bigger fan of modern medicine, despite that I never go to the doctor even though I should when I'm hurt. The modern helicopter that life-flighted my brother from Moab to SLC worked just fine too, he's working on shit that goes super sonic and kills bad guys, no thanks to natural remedies.
I think I'm going to price out a .224 Valkyrie for coyote killing and a 6.5 PRC for a new elk rifle, despite my co-worker telling me his Marlin 45-70 does the job for him just fine here in Wyoming, as I also like modern calibers too.
I'm a much bigger fan of modern medicine, despite that I never go to the doctor even though I should when I'm hurt. The modern helicopter that life-flighted my brother from Moab to SLC worked just fine too, he's working on shit that goes super sonic and kills bad guys, no thanks to natural remedies.
I think I'm going to price out a .224 Valkyrie for coyote killing and a 6.5 PRC for a new elk rifle, despite my co-worker telling me his Marlin 45-70 does the job for him just fine here in Wyoming, as I also like modern calibers too.
Just so we're clear, vaccinated kids with the flu that kill grandma = no biggie
Unvaccinated kids with the flu that kill grandma = little snot disease carrying murderers?
Thats not so much what I got as much as what was said.
Unless you're just saying don't take sick kids to grannies, then yes we absolutely agree.
That has nothing to do with vaccinations though.
Q
QuickNDirty
Guest
Y'all didn't read my linked articles, huh?
Measles is making a comeback because Merck's stock of MMR is about to expire.
vaccines are manufactured from "existing" virus's such as this years flu, that u will get vaccinated for "next" year. After all, u can't make a preventative vaccine from something that doesn't exist. So, the shot u get this year is for last years, this years has already mutated and the shot u get this year, does absolutely nothing to prevent it. Get the flu, let ur body develope it's own antibodies, you'll b a lot better off. If u live a healthy lifestyle, ur chances of getting the flu are very small. I'm 62, had the flu maybe 6 times in my life, only a couple times in the last 10 years and i can usually fight it off in less than 12 hrs, if i feel the symtoms comng on. If i do something stupid, which i did this week, and the result wanted to bring on a cold, i most generally can get rid of it in 24hrs. (which i did).
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Deleted member 10043
Guest
I know two dudes that died from influenza in the last month. A vaccination at the beginning of flu season would have prevented that from happening. I would prefer parents get the proper vaccinations for their children. It is a public health issue worldwide. Catching something preventable is equivalent to being sodomized.
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Deleted member 10043
Guest
At your age influenza is going to kill you. It may be pneumonia, inflammation of the heart or brain, or your own immune system turning on you with death within a septic 48 hours or less.
Almost lost my aunt, the family matriarch, to that very thing. Five days in a coma as a result, good thing she's a tough old bird.
I'm also a big fan of modern medicine, especially when you can actually get to it and get to a doctor that knows what they are doing and is not an idiot. I think if we actually were to stop paying out welfare and put that money into medical research, we might fix all the main expensive stuff in about a decade.
I may not have to have had to wear glasses if I had gotten proper medical treatment for one of my illnesses (not something that there is vaccines for), but on the plus side, I did learn that if your blood is already thinned out from being used to really hot places, you can survive untreated fever temperatures that most would call you as already dead from.
Getting an injection of antibiotics sure is a hell of a lot better than suffering with a really bad ear infection, that's agony.
The problem that we run into however is the modern breed of doctors seem to think they are gods and they know it all and any peons who don't bow down to them should be punished harshly. And unfortunately the local courts/police/government is to stupid to know any better and adds the muscle and violence to the equation. We see this playing out on the news quite often, especially when kids are involved. Somehow the doctors are never held accountable if what they do causes greater injury or death.
Doctors also do a lot of harm with their mistakes, resulting in way more deaths and injuries than guns cause each year.
I got a pretty good idea for how to torture someone if needed, from when an x-ray tech manipulated the arm of my friend wrong and left the ball of the arm riding on the rim of the shoulder socket. Try pain so bad you can't talk let alone hardly think. As well as that same friend being put on this great new bone strengthing meds and then finding out later on they better stop taking it in a hurry because a side effect is killing your jaw bone and also making it brittle as glass.
Doctors seem to forget that they are quite simply mechanics for the body, and the patient is the owner of the body. In a lot of cases the doctors don't actually know what is specifically wrong, but are trying likely things to see what gets the best result. (which is why the Stupid Obamacare with it's attempt to punish doctors financially if you had to go back several times for the same thing was really extra evil). What they need to do is when possible, come down off their high horses, and actually explain everything to the patients, show them the possibilities and their intended course of action and make sure the patient is good with it. (Assuming it's not something immediately life threatening where there is no time for talking or delay & it's get it done now to keep them alive).
Umm vaccines exist for a reason
ever heard of smallpox? used to kill 5 million people annually.
cops being assholes is a different story altogether.
How about the times parents didn't get their kids proper medical care, then the kid dies because
the parents are morons?
ever heard of smallpox? used to kill 5 million people annually.
cops being assholes is a different story altogether.
How about the times parents didn't get their kids proper medical care, then the kid dies because
the parents are morons?
"way more deaths than guns cause"
should have gone with car accidents bro. That shit kills people left and right
