Forster dies, how much to hone out?

[stello1001]

Hey all,

I'm a fairly new reloader. I want to buy forster dies since they offer the honing for their dies, for an additional price of course.

I tried calling 3 times already to see if I could speak to someone who could help me determine how much would be best. Every time no one is available so the lady takes my name and number so someone can reach back out soon. They never ever call back. It's been over 3 weeks since the first time I called.

So can anybody give me some guidance? How much does their expander ball open the neck ID out to? And after measuring one of my loaded rounds for neck OD, what should be a good spec to use for the honing? I figured if someone wants to help me here, I can just place my order online without having to go through their people.


I figured if their expander ball is 1.5 thousands below bullet OD, I should use my loaded neck OD - the 1.5 - another 1 or 1.5 thou???

Or...
Is it even worth it going with their dies given their lack of CS? Can anybody recommend something that's just as good for the money?

The set I'm looking at is below.

Ultra Die Set

No doubt about it: Forster Bench Rest dies set the standard for quality and precision. That’s why they’re the first choice of some of the...

www.forsterproducts.com

Thanks,

Serg

 

[Evintos]

* We recommend leaving the expander ball in place and honing the sizing die .004” to .005” less than the neck diameter of your loaded round. This method should create approximately .002” of neck tension, to ensure minimal working of your brass cases while maintaining consistent neck tension if you also resize thinner or work-hardened brass. If you do choose to remove the expander ball from the die and hone more aggressively to .002” to .003” under the neck diameter of your loaded round, you may require a new honed die whenever the wall thickness varies or the spring back changes in a batch of brass. Honing is done in increments of one-half thousandths of an inch (.0005”), meaning that your specified inside diameter must be either .XXX0”or .XXX5”. No more than .008” stock removal from your existing die neck diameter is possible; see chart on p. 2 for maximum values for the most common die calibers.

https://www.forsterproducts.com/pdf/Custom_neck-honing_full-die_form.pdf

The quote is from their neck honing order form.

Personal opinion, rather than custom hone, if you want a Forster die set, get their new Full Length Bushing Ultra Die set. The set comes with 3 bushings.

https://www.forsterproducts.com/product/ultra-die-set/

 

[Herb Stoner]

I'd suggest getting a little more experience with what your are doing and get some good micrometer / measuring tools so YOU know what you are going to need / want. Keep reading. Not trying to be difficult but a lot of people don't have the experience reloading to ask the right questions and look for a shortcut and end up spending money on things they don't understand and, often, don't need. I know - I did it.

What you are looking for depends on a few things including, what brass, neck wall thickness, desired fit of the bullet (AKA "neck tension"), spring back of brass after sizing, annealing or not, using a mandrel or not, size of mandrel etc., etc.

Generally, factory dies size the neck smaller than is needed and the resulting inside diameter is opened up again by a mandrel. A custom honed die reduces the "squeeze" put on the neck so the brass is worked less so you should get more firing out of your brass and more consistency. Often these little things, while measurable, may or may not yield smaller groups.

Good luck in the Rabbit Hole!!

 

[ballisticdaddy]

Is it even worth it going with their dies given their lack of CS? Can anybody recommend something that's just as good for the money?

I have quite a few full length sizing dies in various calibers and I usually go .003 less than the loaded round diameter. In my experience Forester has great customer service and has helped me with a few different items and the quality of their dies are very hard to beat.

 

[stello1001]

https://www.forsterproducts.com/pdf/Custom_neck-honing_full-die_form.pdf

The quote is from their neck honing order form.

Personal opinion, rather than custom hone, if you want a Forster die set, get their new Full Length Bushing Ultra Die set. The set comes with 3 bushings.

https://www.forsterproducts.com/product/ultra-die-set/

I saw that spreadsheet. My spec would fall pretty much somewhere near the center of their min/max range. But I'm trying to see what people actually use for their spec and what has worked.

I really don't want to go bushings as I will be using LE WILSON mandrel dies to set my "neck tension" or ID.

 

[stello1001]

I'd suggest getting a little more experience with what your are doing and get some good micrometer / measuring tools so YOU know what you are going to need / want. Keep reading. Not trying to be difficult but a lot of people don't have the experience reloading to ask the right questions and look for a shortcut and end up spending money on things they don't understand and, often, don't need. I know - I did it.

What you are looking for depends on a few things including, what brass, neck wall thickness, desired fit of the bullet (AKA "neck tension"), spring back of brass after sizing, annealing or not, using a mandrel or not, size of mandrel etc., etc.

Generally, factory dies size the neck smaller than is needed and the resulting inside diameter is opened up again by a mandrel. A custom honed die reduces the "squeeze" put on the neck so the brass is worked less so you should get more firing out of your brass and more consistency. Often these little things, while measurable, may or may not yield smaller groups.

Good luck in the Rabbit Hole!!

I thought i knew more less what I was trying to do already. I have done a bunch of reading and trying to learn as much. Obviously I don't know everything and don't try to come off that way.

The micrometer is probably the only thing I would agree I need in order to properly measure my loaded round neck OD. I have calipers and know that's not the best way. The hide also convinced me that getting into reloading didn't have to be really really expensive and I could into it for not too much. Yesterday I bought a garmin chrono because if I'm gonna reload I'm gonna want to know MV at one point. The micrometer is simply going to have to wait a bit. I know calipers will give me a ballpark figure only.

What I am looking for does depend on many things, such as what type of brass. I already have a bunch of once fired (out of my rifle) Peterson brass. The wall thickness, "neck tension", etc are all probably best measured using a micrometer, which as I determined, will come later. I'm buying things little by little.

I will be using a mandrel to set "neck tension" although neck tension isn't really the proper term, we just use it loosely. The mandrel is from a LE WILSON mandrel die, although I could also just roll with the standard ball that comes with the FL die. Which is why I asked if anybody knows the diameter of the ball. Their website does not seem to indicate that.

Yes, dies generally reduce the size of the neck and body of the case and the ball or mandrel open up the ID of the neck. I'm aware.

 

[stello1001]

I have quite a few full length sizing dies in various calibers and I usually go .003 less than the loaded round diameter. In my experience Forester has great customer service and has helped me with a few different items and the quality of their dies are very hard to beat.

Thanks, this seems like a good spec.

 

[spife7980]

Agreed, and I rarely ever use a micrometer anymore. .003-.004 below loaded round diameter is fine if you will be using an expansion action. If you’ll just be sizing down with all expansion removed then .002 under.

But I'm trying to see what people actually use for their spec and what has worked.

In order to tell you that we would have to know what chambering and brass you are using.

 

[delfuego]

Measure a fired case and the go .002-.003 less (+/-). It also depends on your use too (semi/bolt/match/br). If it's too tight you might need to turn necks. I have a .268 Forster for 6BR. I think the factory is .265. Been a champ for years and years.

Also I have had them schwack 100/1000th of the bottom of the die. Helps sizing the base down.In fact I helped a buddy get dialed in w/ 6.5cm and it was necessary to get it to actually bump the the should back enough.

Dies need to match the "your" reamer and with "your" brass. Not mine or anybody else's. Giving your gunsmith a dummy round in advance or using his recommend reamer and dies. This can save a lot of pain and anguish down the road.

 

[Huskydriver]

Depends too if you are annealing or not I would def go .003 if you don't anneal with brass spring back as it works hardens

 

[memilanuk]

I really don't want to go bushings as I will be using LE WILSON mandrel dies to set my "neck tension" or ID.

There's absolutely nothing about mandrel dies that precludes the use of F/L bushing dies.