I purchased a new Frankford M-press last week via bass pro.com, as it was the only place besides Cabela's (same company?) I could find it. I originally wanted a Forster Co-Ax, but nobody seems to have them in stock right now. I figured this press was worth a shot, and here we are...
My issue could be related to something else, but here is my theory - please correct me if I'm wrong.
Firstly I'm using the aforementioned press, and all Forster dies:
* Forster FL Sizing Die (for sizing new or foreign brass)
* Forster Bushing Bump Die (for fire formed brass from my (1) rifle - Bergara HMR 22" 6.5 Creedmoor)
* Forster Micrometer seating die
My issue is - I cannot push the shoulder back far enough to smoothly close the bolt on my rifle. I also cannot push the shoulder back to original SAAMI factory ammo spec. This is with both the bushing bump die on fire formed brass, and the FLS die on anything. I am measuring each cartridge with a Hornady D400 comparator insert from the datum line on the neck to the base. Bullet seating into the rifling is not an issue. The issue is 100% shoulder to base dimension. I can take the bullet out of the round and still experience hard to close bolt operation/chambering.
No matter how much cam over I put into either die, it does not push the shoulder enough. Also, brass is around 1.91", so OAL is not an issue either.
Brass Datum to Base Measurement:
Factory Ammo - 1.5345"
Test Ammo Max cam-over on die- 1.5405"
Difference of .006"
This had me puzzled, and I thought maybe my micrometer could be off. Tried another, same readings. Next step was to check the sized round(s) in the chamber of my rifle. Factory ammo, firing pin/extractor removed from the bolt, everything closes up smoothly without effort. With my sized rounds as small as I can get them, the bolt is rough to close, and the bolt face is rubbing the cartridge base.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the only thing it can be is: The Forster die is sized to operate in a Forster Co-Ax wich may have thinner shell holders OR the die was machined too long, and thus contacts the shell plates too early before the shoulders of the brass can be fully pressed down. With this, I checked the M-press shell plate. The only thing I can compare it to is an RCBS #3 shell holder (used in my bench primer) which is much thinner.
RCBS #3 Shell Holder Z dimension (height) - 0.1220"
MPress Universal Shell Plates Z dimension (height)- 0.1285"
Difference of .0065"
This accounts for what I'm seeing in my rounds. A .002 bump would probably get me where I need to be, but the M-press shell plates are non adjustable, and the only way I can think to modify them would be to have them milled down. The other option is to have the die milled down via Forster.
Am I on the right path here? Should I complain to Frankford about the shell holders being so thick, or is this common sizing? Based on my only comparison (RCBS) they seem thick. I would imagine I will have issues with other brands / calibers, especially with Forster.
Thoughts?
Notes/ Pictures:
Other than this issue, I also have a couple other complaints for this press. The die blocks that hold the dies are not ideal. First, nobody has them right now and unless you want to setup your dies every time, you need to buy one for each die. This is not a big deal, as we are all used to the lock rings but they are more expensive IF you can find them. The brass set screw to hold the die in place is useless, and the way they cast the press frame for the block makes it really hard to fit Forster seating dies, or other large sized dies (Sinclair Mandrel die also). I cannot seat my Forster micrometer seater the way the instructions tell you to, as the bottom of the micrometer body hits the press frame. It still works, but I'm worried about runout. I'm setting up a mic stand to check soon.
Close up of the universal shell holders (retainer plate removed). The bottom of the die butts directly to the top of theses.
Unlike the Co-Ax, these spin in place to reveal 4 different caliber choices: Large, Small, .223, and .308:
Too thick @ .1285" ?
ON the bushing bump die, I can't even get the shoulders to touch the top of the die. It's worse than the FLS die, as you can see from the grease line below. I put extra one shot wax on a shell to locate how far down the die was making contact onto the neck and shoulders. It doesn't even make it to the shoulders It appears.
Problem area - fitting large dies deep enough without hitting the Press Fram:
My issue could be related to something else, but here is my theory - please correct me if I'm wrong.
Firstly I'm using the aforementioned press, and all Forster dies:
* Forster FL Sizing Die (for sizing new or foreign brass)
* Forster Bushing Bump Die (for fire formed brass from my (1) rifle - Bergara HMR 22" 6.5 Creedmoor)
* Forster Micrometer seating die
My issue is - I cannot push the shoulder back far enough to smoothly close the bolt on my rifle. I also cannot push the shoulder back to original SAAMI factory ammo spec. This is with both the bushing bump die on fire formed brass, and the FLS die on anything. I am measuring each cartridge with a Hornady D400 comparator insert from the datum line on the neck to the base. Bullet seating into the rifling is not an issue. The issue is 100% shoulder to base dimension. I can take the bullet out of the round and still experience hard to close bolt operation/chambering.
No matter how much cam over I put into either die, it does not push the shoulder enough. Also, brass is around 1.91", so OAL is not an issue either.
Brass Datum to Base Measurement:
Factory Ammo - 1.5345"
Test Ammo Max cam-over on die- 1.5405"
Difference of .006"
This had me puzzled, and I thought maybe my micrometer could be off. Tried another, same readings. Next step was to check the sized round(s) in the chamber of my rifle. Factory ammo, firing pin/extractor removed from the bolt, everything closes up smoothly without effort. With my sized rounds as small as I can get them, the bolt is rough to close, and the bolt face is rubbing the cartridge base.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the only thing it can be is: The Forster die is sized to operate in a Forster Co-Ax wich may have thinner shell holders OR the die was machined too long, and thus contacts the shell plates too early before the shoulders of the brass can be fully pressed down. With this, I checked the M-press shell plate. The only thing I can compare it to is an RCBS #3 shell holder (used in my bench primer) which is much thinner.
RCBS #3 Shell Holder Z dimension (height) - 0.1220"
MPress Universal Shell Plates Z dimension (height)- 0.1285"
Difference of .0065"
This accounts for what I'm seeing in my rounds. A .002 bump would probably get me where I need to be, but the M-press shell plates are non adjustable, and the only way I can think to modify them would be to have them milled down. The other option is to have the die milled down via Forster.
Am I on the right path here? Should I complain to Frankford about the shell holders being so thick, or is this common sizing? Based on my only comparison (RCBS) they seem thick. I would imagine I will have issues with other brands / calibers, especially with Forster.
Thoughts?
Notes/ Pictures:
Other than this issue, I also have a couple other complaints for this press. The die blocks that hold the dies are not ideal. First, nobody has them right now and unless you want to setup your dies every time, you need to buy one for each die. This is not a big deal, as we are all used to the lock rings but they are more expensive IF you can find them. The brass set screw to hold the die in place is useless, and the way they cast the press frame for the block makes it really hard to fit Forster seating dies, or other large sized dies (Sinclair Mandrel die also). I cannot seat my Forster micrometer seater the way the instructions tell you to, as the bottom of the micrometer body hits the press frame. It still works, but I'm worried about runout. I'm setting up a mic stand to check soon.
Close up of the universal shell holders (retainer plate removed). The bottom of the die butts directly to the top of theses.
Unlike the Co-Ax, these spin in place to reveal 4 different caliber choices: Large, Small, .223, and .308:
Too thick @ .1285" ?
ON the bushing bump die, I can't even get the shoulders to touch the top of the die. It's worse than the FLS die, as you can see from the grease line below. I put extra one shot wax on a shell to locate how far down the die was making contact onto the neck and shoulders. It doesn't even make it to the shoulders It appears.
Problem area - fitting large dies deep enough without hitting the Press Fram:
