I have been full length sizing for years for my FN SPR with great results. If I were to switch to just neck/shoulder sizing, any idea about how much improvement I may see in accuracy and brass life? I know there are may variations with charges etc. etc. Im just looking for your experience with both ways in general.
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Full length or neck?
- Thread starter muggs13
- Start date
Re: Full length or neck?
With only doing neck sizing brass life will be significantly increased. Only downside is that you should only fire neck sized brass out of the same gun.
As for accuracy, I don't know that it matters as long as its consistent. I know a lot of competition 50 bmg shooters only neck size. Others FL size. I personally neck size my large caliber (expensive) brass.
With only doing neck sizing brass life will be significantly increased. Only downside is that you should only fire neck sized brass out of the same gun.
As for accuracy, I don't know that it matters as long as its consistent. I know a lot of competition 50 bmg shooters only neck size. Others FL size. I personally neck size my large caliber (expensive) brass.
Re: Full length or neck?
Brass splits faster at the neck than the shoulder, thus neck sizing does not prolong brass life.
Brass splits faster at the neck than the shoulder, thus neck sizing does not prolong brass life.
Re: Full length or neck?
Necks are seldom the point of failure with my brass, primer pocket growth is the usual cause of my brass' becoming unusable.
I do a modified version of F/L sizing, with the die raised so only a small portion of the neck actually gets resized.
I've been doing it so long I forgot I had the die set up that way, and my latest batch of cartridges is actually F/L resized in the normal manner, just to make sure I'm not affecting accuracy negatively.
Greg
Necks are seldom the point of failure with my brass, primer pocket growth is the usual cause of my brass' becoming unusable.
I do a modified version of F/L sizing, with the die raised so only a small portion of the neck actually gets resized.
I've been doing it so long I forgot I had the die set up that way, and my latest batch of cartridges is actually F/L resized in the normal manner, just to make sure I'm not affecting accuracy negatively.
Greg
Re: Full length or neck?
IMO brass life is more a function of how your casing fits your particular chamber. Not whether you FL or NS your brass. I try to just bump my shoulders back about .002 with a Fl sizer die, then use a Sinclair neck sizing mandrel.
Are you running a hot load?? That also has a lot to do with brass life.
A simple case annealing gives you great case life. your problem will normally occur at the primer pocket if you properly anneal your cases.
accuracy is more a function of consistency. And less a function of whether you just neck size of FL size your brass.
Alot of BR shooters do get great case life by only slightly sizing their necks. However they are working with tight chambered rifles. Cases that have had a lot of pre-loading preparation. And shooting lighter loads. Most of these parameters are not how your typical person reloads and shoots. Tom.
IMO brass life is more a function of how your casing fits your particular chamber. Not whether you FL or NS your brass. I try to just bump my shoulders back about .002 with a Fl sizer die, then use a Sinclair neck sizing mandrel.
Are you running a hot load?? That also has a lot to do with brass life.
A simple case annealing gives you great case life. your problem will normally occur at the primer pocket if you properly anneal your cases.
accuracy is more a function of consistency. And less a function of whether you just neck size of FL size your brass.
Alot of BR shooters do get great case life by only slightly sizing their necks. However they are working with tight chambered rifles. Cases that have had a lot of pre-loading preparation. And shooting lighter loads. Most of these parameters are not how your typical person reloads and shoots. Tom.
Re: Full length or neck?
I'am running 43g. of varget w/ 168 SBT's and using Federal match brass. A standard load that gives me better than MOA at 500m.
It would appear that as long as I remain consistant with my loading it does not matter if I FL or just neck size.
So far after 4X loadings my pockets are still holding up.
I was looking for feed back as to weather or not I may have been doing myself a huge dis-service by only Fl sizing and possibly killing my accuracy or brass life a great deal. \
Thanks for the help.
Reguards
paul.
I'am running 43g. of varget w/ 168 SBT's and using Federal match brass. A standard load that gives me better than MOA at 500m.
It would appear that as long as I remain consistant with my loading it does not matter if I FL or just neck size.
So far after 4X loadings my pockets are still holding up.
I was looking for feed back as to weather or not I may have been doing myself a huge dis-service by only Fl sizing and possibly killing my accuracy or brass life a great deal. \
Thanks for the help.
Reguards
paul.
Re: Full length or neck?
It will differ from rifle to rifle and die to die. But as a refrence:
I have never full length sized any of my brass for my 308 r700. I run hornady match brass (I shot hornady loads before I started rolling my own). I've never used any diffrent brass.
I have only had the oppertinity to shoot at 100 yards with this rifle so my loads are not hot by anymeans Although I am currently searching for speed though.
Current load is 42 gn of varget behind a 168 smk. I have a min of 23 loads on the brass. I have 140 pieces. Some has 25 loads. No signs of wear.
Once I get my hot load settled in i'm going to get some lapua brass for it and keep using the hornady for the paper punching load.
It will differ from rifle to rifle and die to die. But as a refrence:
I have never full length sized any of my brass for my 308 r700. I run hornady match brass (I shot hornady loads before I started rolling my own). I've never used any diffrent brass.
I have only had the oppertinity to shoot at 100 yards with this rifle so my loads are not hot by anymeans Although I am currently searching for speed though.
Current load is 42 gn of varget behind a 168 smk. I have a min of 23 loads on the brass. I have 140 pieces. Some has 25 loads. No signs of wear.
Once I get my hot load settled in i'm going to get some lapua brass for it and keep using the hornady for the paper punching load.
Re: Full length or neck?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quicky06</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have never full length sized any of my brass for my 308 r700. I run hornady match brass (I shot hornady loads before I started rolling my own). I've never used any diffrent brass...
Current load is 42 gn of varget behind a 168 smk. I have a min of 23 loads on the brass. I have 140 pieces. Some has 25 loads. No signs of wear.
</div></div>
That's because your load is 4 grains under max and is barely making 50000 PSI.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quicky06</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have never full length sized any of my brass for my 308 r700. I run hornady match brass (I shot hornady loads before I started rolling my own). I've never used any diffrent brass...
Current load is 42 gn of varget behind a 168 smk. I have a min of 23 loads on the brass. I have 140 pieces. Some has 25 loads. No signs of wear.
</div></div>
That's because your load is 4 grains under max and is barely making 50000 PSI.
Re: Full length or neck?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 918v</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quicky06</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have never full length sized any of my brass for my 308 r700. I run hornady match brass (I shot hornady loads before I started rolling my own). I've never used any diffrent brass...
Current load is 42 gn of varget behind a 168 smk. I have a min of 23 loads on the brass. I have 140 pieces. Some has 25 loads. No signs of wear.
</div></div>
That's because your load is 4 grains under max and is barely making 50000 PSI. </div></div>
I am calculating 47kpsi 2557 fps with 24" barrel.
I can beat that with a 30-30 70kpsi 2600 fps 24" barrel.
I have 30-30s in 1885, Sav 219, and 91/30 actions that can take that pressure.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 918v</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quicky06</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have never full length sized any of my brass for my 308 r700. I run hornady match brass (I shot hornady loads before I started rolling my own). I've never used any diffrent brass...
Current load is 42 gn of varget behind a 168 smk. I have a min of 23 loads on the brass. I have 140 pieces. Some has 25 loads. No signs of wear.
</div></div>
That's because your load is 4 grains under max and is barely making 50000 PSI. </div></div>
I am calculating 47kpsi 2557 fps with 24" barrel.
I can beat that with a 30-30 70kpsi 2600 fps 24" barrel.
I have 30-30s in 1885, Sav 219, and 91/30 actions that can take that pressure.
Re: Full length or neck?
That's nice, there is one member here that claims 35+ loadings from Lapua brass. In another thread one guy references a published article that limits Lapua brass to 15 loadings. Guns & Ammo did a test in the '80s where they got 101 loadings out of a .38 Special case. See what I mean? Pressure is everything when you calculate brass life.
That's nice, there is one member here that claims 35+ loadings from Lapua brass. In another thread one guy references a published article that limits Lapua brass to 15 loadings. Guns & Ammo did a test in the '80s where they got 101 loadings out of a .38 Special case. See what I mean? Pressure is everything when you calculate brass life.
Re: Full length or neck?
I have gone past 50 reloads with Lapua 308 brass.
I tossed my last batch at about 30, mostly because they endured a mistake of oversizing that thinned the web.
Those ran a 44 grain Varget and 175MK load.
I have gone past 50 reloads with Lapua 308 brass.
I tossed my last batch at about 30, mostly because they endured a mistake of oversizing that thinned the web.
Those ran a 44 grain Varget and 175MK load.
Re: Full length or neck?
Factory chamber?
What I have found is factory rifles are seldom square. Bolt face runout causes the face of the casehead to conform under pressure. Now you have a case with reciprocal runout. Unless you reinsert it the same identical way it went out, you'll find it hard to close the bolt. So you bump the shoulder .002" and the bolt closes nicely. But after 10+ loads, the case web gets thinned out.
On a blueprinted rifle where everything is square, you can sometimes get 5 high pressure loads before having to bump the shoulder. This prolongs brass life significantly.
Factory chamber?
What I have found is factory rifles are seldom square. Bolt face runout causes the face of the casehead to conform under pressure. Now you have a case with reciprocal runout. Unless you reinsert it the same identical way it went out, you'll find it hard to close the bolt. So you bump the shoulder .002" and the bolt closes nicely. But after 10+ loads, the case web gets thinned out.
On a blueprinted rifle where everything is square, you can sometimes get 5 high pressure loads before having to bump the shoulder. This prolongs brass life significantly.
Re: Full length or neck?
Chambered by me. Fired neck diameter is .343-.344".
Back when I was still using my Saveage factory chamber, I was running LC brass to 50 firings and beyond. I give no credit to the chamber.
I found an interesting post on another site regarding case life and accuracy:
http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/precision_resizing.html
Chambered by me. Fired neck diameter is .343-.344".
Back when I was still using my Saveage factory chamber, I was running LC brass to 50 firings and beyond. I give no credit to the chamber.
I found an interesting post on another site regarding case life and accuracy:
http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/precision_resizing.html
Re: Full length or neck?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 918v</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... thus neck sizing does not prolong brass life. </div></div>
Yes it does.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 918v</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... thus neck sizing does not prolong brass life. </div></div>
Yes it does.
Re: Full length or neck?
918v;
Your point about the boltface seems a logical conclusion to me.
Never had this issue AFAIK, but I can see that as a possible cause.
918v;
Your point about the boltface seems a logical conclusion to me.
Never had this issue AFAIK, but I can see that as a possible cause.
Re: Full length or neck?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 918v</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... thus neck sizing does not prolong brass life. </div></div>
Yes it does. </div></div>
No it doesn't.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 918v</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... thus neck sizing does not prolong brass life. </div></div>
Yes it does. </div></div>
No it doesn't.
Re: Full length or neck?
Does !!!!! // does not ??????? wich one !!!!!!!!!!!!
it would have to in that your working the beass less ??????
NO??????
Does !!!!! // does not ??????? wich one !!!!!!!!!!!!
it would have to in that your working the beass less ??????
NO??????
Re: Full length or neck?
No, because if you bump the shoulder only 1-2 thousandths, you are not really working the brass anymore than if you don't bump the shoulder at all. The greatest point of brass expansion is at the neck. In some cases, the neck has to expand 15 thousandths to seal the chamber. The shoulder expands 3-4 thousandths. The base expands 1-2 thousandths. As you can see, the neck gets worked the most, and you are working the neck the same with both FL and neck sizing. Since the neck is the most worked area, it will fail first unless you anneal frequently, something many people are unwilling to do.
No, because if you bump the shoulder only 1-2 thousandths, you are not really working the brass anymore than if you don't bump the shoulder at all. The greatest point of brass expansion is at the neck. In some cases, the neck has to expand 15 thousandths to seal the chamber. The shoulder expands 3-4 thousandths. The base expands 1-2 thousandths. As you can see, the neck gets worked the most, and you are working the neck the same with both FL and neck sizing. Since the neck is the most worked area, it will fail first unless you anneal frequently, something many people are unwilling to do.
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