Full Review Nemesis Arms Vanquish / EDM Mini-Windrunner Rifles

[gunlove]

Review of 5 total Nemesis Arms Vanquish & EDM Mini-Windrunner .308 Rifles

1. Preface/Summary
2. Test Targets
3. Chamber Measurements
4. Observations on Five Individual Rifles
5. Customer Service
6. Methods and Discussion

1. PREFACE/SUMMARY

Ever since first setting eyes on the Nemesis rifle, I knew I had to have one. The ability to breakdown a sniper rifle and stow it easily into a small backpack seemed not only awesome but absolutely groundbreaking. The design appeared so simple, solid, and versatile. I watched the video of David Ives’ rooftop deployment a dozen of times. When I saw it in The Bourne Legacy, I wondered why I did not already own one.

I picked up five of these rifles within a few months of each other last year. Two were EDM and the other three Nemesis Arms. EDM Arms invented and produced the first 50x Mini-Windrunners before selling the design to David Ives of Nemesis Arms who later renamed it the Vaquish. Unfortunately due to life and work, I was not able to thoroughly test any of the rifles for several months and until I already owned and quiver full. At the time, there was very little information about the rifles online. From the scarce information I found online, I concluded they must be fairly good rifles. However after thoroughly testing them, I would not recommend this platform to anyone. I have written this review based on my personal experiences and testing of five Mini-Windrunner rifles. This is the review I wish I could have found and read myself before investing in these rifles.

All rifles tested (EDM and Nemesis Arms) fell below factory standards for entry level factory rifles in regard to accuracy, fit, and finish. The test targets were over 2 MOA, the fit and finish was hit or miss, and the customer service turned out incapable and downright rude. Based on my testing and experience with five of these rifles, I would not recommend Nemesis Arms to anyone.

2. TEST TARGETS

Analysis:
The Nemesis Rifles performed well below any factory rifle I have ever fired. The 2.18” Nemesis Arms group clearly illuminates a serious lack of accuracy. Here’'s some data for comparison from my personal experience:

My Patriot Arms Surgeon 308 shot under .40 MOA (MOA = minute of angle ~ 1” at 100 yrds) and my early Remington 5R shot around .50 MOA. My Tactical-Operations Tango-51 groups under .25 MOA. Benchresters shoot 6mm rifles averaging around .15 MOA, the world record bench rest group is .0077” at 100yrds. Military M4s shoot around 4 MOA and AK-47s much worse. The Army M24 groups at .50 MOA, the M110 1MOA+, the SR-25 was .50 to .75 MOA, and the M107 (semi-auto) 2MOA. $5000 Custom Tactical rifles are generally 0.50MOA and under. Factory heavy barrel $1000 Remington 700s shoot around .5-.75MOA; $400 Remington 700 hunting rifles at Walmart shoot .75-1.5 MOA. The Nemesis 2 MOA shot groups are clearly way below the industry standard for rifles.

EDM #013 shot better at 0.93 MOA. Note that this was after chamber measuring and after I pushed 14x rounds of FGMM (Federal Gold Medal Match 168 grain) back 0.02” specifically for this test. I seated the bullet lower with a reloading press.

Data:
This is one of the best and a very characteristic group of the 80x 168gr FGMM rounds fired from Nemesis Arms Mini-Windrunner #128. It almost looks like a group of 4x normal rounds and 6x flyers.
The Tac-Ops Tango 51 5x round group was fired only a few minutes later in exactly the same manner with the same 168gr FGMM.

Nemesis Arms Mini-Windrunner #057 shot slightly better, of the 20x total 168gr FGMM rounds fired from it. Note the chamber of this one also appeared better in my chamber measuring results.

The much older EDM Arms Mini-Windrunner outperformed the Nemesis Arms rifles. 20x rounds total 168gr FGMM were fired from this EDM.

3. CHAMBER MEASUREMENTS

Analysis:
The rifle chamber is one of the most important aspects of accuracy in a rifle, if not the most important. Chamber measurements, tolerances, and concentricity is the most influential/beneficial part of buying a custom rifles. Good gunsmiths adjust chambers to match specific bullets, shooter intents, barrel twists, and more. Often the specifics of the tolerances and finishing techniques are closely guarded shop secrets. On the other side, the first step in precision reloading is chamber measurement, which allows reloaders to custom load rounds specifically to fit best in the chamber. In contrast to custom gunsmith chambers, factory chambers are usually longer. This ensures any weight/length of bullet can be used safely in the chamber, but as a result normal rounds in factory rifles usually have much further to “jump” from the case neck to where the rifling lands begin. The chamber is one of the main contributors in the lower accuracy of factory rifles vs. custom rifles.

Both the EDM and Nemesis chambers were very short, although all fell within the SAAMI Specification. The chambers were “Palma Match” Chambers. Palma shooters fire 155 gr bullets with open sights. The barrels are generally very long with 1:13+ twist rates to suit the relatively light (and mandatory in the sport) 155 gr bullet. In contrast, long range .308 shooters use heavy 220 gr bullets to reduce wind effect. They use 1:8 to 1:10 barrels. Tactical .308 shooters are content with a compromise in the middle (usually mandatory government supplied) 168 or 175 gr BTHP. Their optimal twist is 1:11.25. The combination of a Palma chamber with a 1:10 barrel on a rifle intended for the tactical rifle is not one I have seen before, and for good reason as it strikes me as out of touch with shooter needs and technical competency.

The finish machining observed on the Nemesis Arms chambers appeared rough with notable imperfections not usually observed, even in cheaper factory rifles. The Nemesis Arms factory re-chamber measurements revealed rough machine work and little, if any, finish work. The poor accuracy performance of the Nemesis Arms rifles could be explained by the chamber data and observations below.

Data:
Nemesis #057: 2.192” +-.005 very sharp/abrupt angle to bore, easy to measure
Nemesis #128: 2.207” +-.005 very sharp/abrupt angle to bore, easy to measure
Nemesis #560: 2.285" +-.005 slightly more gradual, 360 ring contact w/6x lands showing at the same time
EDM Arms #013: 2.220” +-.005 abrupt angle to bore, slightly less sharp than older Nemesis
Patriot Arms 308: 2.230" +-.02 extremely gradual transition to bore
Tac-Ops 308: 2.288" +-.01 medium angle to bore, very even and smooth 4x lands
Rem 700 5R: 2.352" +-.01 very even marks

After Chamber Adjustment by Nemesis Arms:
Nemesis #57: 2.332” +-.005 very sharp/abrupt angle to bore, less even then before
Nemesis #128: 2.325” +-.005 two marks 180 degrees apart appeared sooner and marked much harder than the other 4. 7x marks showed during full contact (this is a 6 groove barrel)

Bullet OGLs:
FGMM Ammo: 2.210-2.223" (sample size 10x, same box)
SAAMI OGL spec for 308 Win 2.1835" (this was a hard spec to find... found on 6mmbr.com)

Twist Rates: EDM #013: 1:11”, All Nemesis: 1:10


4. OBSERVATIONS ON FIVE INDIVIDUAL RIFLES

EDM #047: (again, EDM designed and built the first 50x Mini-Windrunners before selling the design to David Ives of Nemesis Arms who took over production of the rifle)

At first glance the EDM didn’t look bad. The action felt fairly smooth. It appeared to only have been fired 50-200 rounds (based on little bolt finish wear and other mating surface wear). However, the stock deployment was pretty rough; it was not near what you would expect for the price. The trigger was excellent.

The stock on this rifle was "upgraded" by Nemesis Arms. They upgraded several of the older EDMs with their new stock with larger diameter rods and an aluminum (rather than cast pot metal) butt end. The machining of the lower receiver by Nemesis Arms pictured below is extremely rough.

The push button release appeared well cast. The teeth on the inside which lock out the stock were very worn/deformed looking (sorry no pic). The notches in the stock were not the correct distance to accommodate the two 1” separated teeth of the locking button mechanism. This lack of alignment caused it to collapse each time it was fired.

I am going to go out on a limb here to guess that a group of partially inebriated firearms enthusiasts probably raced each other to see how fast they could put it together. This was not observed in any of the other rifles to any degree whatsoever. It also really didn’t seem to affect the lock-up.

...continued in next post

 

[gunlove]

Likewise, the bipod raised similar concern at first glance.
I now understand better this particular bipod design. This was standard on the bipods on all rifles, this was the most worn example in the five. I believe this part of the Versa-Pod bipod is designed to be soft in order to lock-out tightly against it. I think this part is designed to be malleable, wear more, and, as a result, lock-out tighter and more quickly against itself when bipod loading. This is all I will say about the bi-pod as this is not a Versa-Pod review.

I sent this EDM rifle back to the seller. The main reason being I didn’t want to mess with fixing the stock issue. This is the only rifle I have ever sent back to a seller.


Nemesis Arms #560:

This rifle was new and unfired. Upon first inspection this rifle was much better than the EDM. The nitride finish was certainly superior in appearance and function. The stock felt much better. It was much easier to extend. It was not a ball bearing glide, but it was better. It made a steely rattle as it opened. The trigger felt great, though I prefer a curved trigger shoe.
The bolt felt good, similar to an average upper level ($1000 level) factory production bolt.
The magazine catch was much improved. It had HK style lever, rather than the AR style button. The trigger was a Timney Custom Trigger Group. Nemesis Arms stated that this new trigger solved many of the problems the Jewell Trigger experienced.

The stock butt was heavier and set up with a rail to accept a monopod. I prefer the smaller more compact older butt.

The barrel of this Nemesis Arms was incorrectly marked “308 REM”. After much Googling, I determined that this caliber does exist. It is a .308 win rifle barrel and chamber.

Nemesis Arms #057:

The first impression of this rifle was good. After inspection, it appeared have been shot very little, maybe 75-200 rounds (based on bolt finish wear and other mating surface wear). The bolt of this one and #128 were noticeably rougher than Nemesis #560 and the EDMs. The bolt feel was slightly above the level of a cheaper bolt rifle ($500). The trigger was very light and absolutely perfect, more like a target rifle and less like tactical rifle. The stock extension was rough and somewhat difficult to extend or close. However, it did not collapse upon shooting. The soft alloy rods showed galling and dings likely caused by the locking mechanism teeth, which made an uneven surface for the sliding or locking out.

The barrel lock-up and mating surfaces were solid with no issues. The upper receivers on all rifles tested were very well-machined. The lowers became progressively better cast/milled on later productions, though all looked good. The EDM and early Nemesis were cast by lost wax technique. I do not know how common this is in firearms. It’s a time consuming method which has been used for hundreds of years by sculptors in the art world. I am not sure why you would use this or if either of these companies still uses this method.


Nemesis Arms #128:

This rifle appeared very good at first glance. After inspection, it appeared have been shot very little, maybe 75-200 rounds (based on bolt finish wear and other mating surface wear). The bolt of this one and #057 were noticeably rougher than Nemesis #560 and the EDMs. The bolt feel was slightly above the level of a cheaper bolt rifle ($500). The stock extension was rough and somewhat difficult to extend or close. However, it did not collapse upon shooting. The soft alloy rods showed galling and dings likely caused by the locking mechanism teeth, which made an uneven surface for the sliding or locking out.

The barrel lock-up and mating surfaces were solid with no issues. The upper receiver on all rifles tested were very well machined. However, unlike #057, this rifle had a host of issues from the start:
-The bolt release did not function correctly; it had to be completely taken off to remove the bolt. All 5x rifles had chinzy feeling bolt releases. The design simply doesn’t function very well. However, on this one it was particularly maladjusted.
-Neither magazine provided (nor any other Nemesis magazines I had on hand) seated or locked in. Even with wiggling, slapping, or the bolt open, the mag would not lock in at all.
-The trigger would not cock roughly 70% of the time, without detectable cause or pattern. Nemesis Arms stated the Jewel triggers were temperamental and did not function well with too much oil or any dirt.
-The extractor was deformed. This was likely due to the high pressures in the chamber using standard factory ammo in a short Palma chamber.
-The push button stock release on this one appeared to be irregularly cast pot metal.

...continued in next post

 

[gunlove]

EDM Arms #013:

Like the previous rifles, this one didn’t appear to have been fired much, maybe 50-75 rounds. It probably had the smoothest bolt, slightly better than the new Nemesis. This rifle had many of the same observations as the previous four rifles: the bolt release was hinky, the chamber was short, the stock deployment was rough like the Nemesis #128 & #057, the upper receiver was very well machined, and the barrel lock-up was perfect.

However, this EDM rifle had a little surprise for me on the cleaning bench:

Cleaning with Hoppe’s #9 took off the finish on the lower receiver only. I have to speculate the lower was spray painted by the last owner because it looked like new when I picked it up. It was a good spray job for sure; I totally didn’t see this one coming.

5. CUSTOMER SERVICE

Bottom Line Up Front: My experience with the customer service department at Nemesis arms started off great, progressed to frustrating, and ended with them blaming me for the issues with their rifle

I began my obsession with the Nemesis rifle by sending lots of detailed questions about the generations of production, the backpacks, and history of the rifles. I wanted to know everything about what I thought was a revolutionary rifle; I was in on the ground floor. I had tons of questions. Nemesis was very patient, informative, and helpful in answering all my questions quickly and thoroughly.

My interactions with customer changed as I began testing the technical aspects of the rifles. I took #128 & #057 shooting before measuring chambers. I only shot 5x rounds out of one and didn’t get any rounds down range out of the shorter chambered of the two. They both had slightly hard bolt closes and hard opening. The expended shell casings showed ejector slide markings on the base and showed slightly flatter than normal primers. These are both indicators of high pressure. Both rifles pulled bullets on live rounds when extracted, spilling powder all over the inside of the rifles This made for a short test, luckily I had other rifles at the range that day. I was able to try two rounds of 155 gr. surplus in one; these rounds had the same high pressure signs. Upon measuring the OGL back at the house, the OGL on the 155gr surplus was very similar to the FGMM. This was a bad first range trip and it started to cast serious doubt on the rifles.

Back at the house, I measured the chambers and quickly found very short chamber length. I called Nemesis Arms the next Monday and first spoke with Kathleen, who was very defensive about the rifles. She would hear nothing of the issues. David then came to the phone and very level headedly acknowledged these dimensions had caused issues with some of the early rifle buyers, due to the tight tolerances of the Palma Match Chambers. He stated he had elongated the chambers of several guns free of charge and would do the same for me despite my lack of original purchase. He even stated that some shooters wanted extremely long chambers, and that he had always done whatever the customer requested even if he didn’t understand why. (The reason for this is that shooters wanted more room to accommodate longer heavier bullets which match the rate of twist; this would be a good idea for all Nemesis rifles).

The rifles were shipped back with full written instructions. I wrote down all the specifications, numbers, and issues we had talked about on the phone and I conveyed specifically how far to push the Ogive Chamber Length back, which was to 2.288” (or 0.096” back for #057 and 0.081” for #128). Although frustrated the chambers were shorter than I would like, I had no complaints with the customer service side at this time. David had been very understanding and offered to lengthen the chambers free of charge.

A serious shipping error marked the turning point of my relationship with customer service. Although my address was provided in writing and verbally on the phone, my two $5000 Nemesis rifles were shipped three doors down to the wrong address on the same street. I was extremely fortunate my rifles were shipped to a military member who didn’t call the cops or try to keep the surprise gift. Instead, he knocked on my door trying to find the correct owner of these two misdirected firearms.

I immediately measured the chambers. As seen in the data above, they were 0.044 & 0.037” longer than I specified and appeared very rough. They were now on par with a loose factory Remington 700 chamber in length, but worse with regard to machining. One magazine in #128 seated properly, though the second still did not. Although I didn’t ask for it, they did replace the stock rods on this rifle, making the stock feel like the one on the new Nemesis #560, which was very nice. They also replaced the extractor and cleaned the trigger group, which solved the cocking issue on #057. The chambers still had lots of thick oil in them presumably from the machining; I assume they were also test fired in this unclean condition, if at all. These were not signs of a careful gunsmith with strict attention to detail and pride in craftsmanship.

I then tested the rifles thoroughly at the range (results seen earlier in this review). At this point, I was starting to believe Nemesis Arms did not have the capability, capacity, or necessary skill to correctly machine and fix all the issues. However, I still contacted Nemesis about the issues. After much hesitancy and debate, Nemesis talked me into sending one of the rifle back a second time. David said he would do everything necessary to make the rifle shoot under 1 MOA, even if it meant completely re-barrelling it. I sent back #128. This time Nemesis paid for the shipping costs both ways.

A few weeks later I received it back, to my correct address. Nemesis emailed a picture 3x round sub-MOA test target when the rifle was on its way back and stated it had been “personally tested and proved accurate.”

The picture below was the image Nemesis Arms sent via email to me; I calculated this at 0.97” for 3x rounds. (Those of you who frequent snipershide know a 3x round target is not considered a “group”, a snipershide group starts at 5x rounds.)

To me, the email didn’t sound like correspondence which would normally accompany a dialog about working and fixing issues. I immediately replied back with a quick inquisition on the steps taken to fix the rifle. At this point, Nemesis Customer service took on a new tone. David became very condescending and terse.

David now had issues with the age and secondhand nature of the rifle acquisitions and stated the initial service without charge was a favor. Nemesis rifles are only warranted to the original owner. Everything about doing whatever it took to fix the rifle was gone. He stated most his customers do more research before purchasing his weapons systems and the accessories available to promote greater accuracy. He went on to say I should consider training more and sticking to an inexpensive Remington rifle which would better fit my needs.

David was correct, I should have done more research. Unfortunately, not much information was available on this platform at the time. Now after my personal testing and experiences, I believe Nemesis rifles are not suitable rifles for serious marksmen, military, or law enforcement organizations. I hope my experience and this write-up helps other potential individuals and organizations as they research the Nemesis Arms Vanquish platform for future purchase and deployment.


6. METHOD/DISCUSSION OF TESTING:

Test Rifles: EDM Arms Mini-Windrunner Model-06 #047, Nemesis Arms Vanquish #560, Nemesis Arms Mini-Windrunner Model-06 #057 w/Leupold M3A, Nemesis Arms Windrunner #128 w/USO 3.2-17x44mm, EDM Arms Mini-Windrunner Model-06 #013

Control Rifles: Tac-Ops Tango-51, Patriot Arms Surgeon 308, Remington early 5R 700, w/ US Optics 25x & 17x scopes

Tools: Dillon 500 Press, Forster micrometer seating die, Mitutoyo Caliper, Hornady Bullet Comparator measures Ogive Length (OGL i.e. where the bullets diameter is .308), Federal Gold Medal Match Sierra BTHP 168gr. (FGMM)(all same lot), Bulls 15” leather bag, Protektor leather rear bag, Leupold laser ranger finder, 6mmbr.com targets, magic marker, acetone, Impact bullet puller (hammer type), Dewey Polymer-Coat .308 rod w/jag

Chamber Measuring: Bullet was loaded into an empty case around estimated chamber OGL, the bullet was colored with a fresh black marker, the cartridge was loaded, the bullet was inspected for presence and type of marks left, the bullet was pulled, cleaned with acetone, and reloaded with adjusted seating. This process was repeated at least 15-20 times each rifle. Note: two Nemesis rifles were sent back to Nemesis Arms to adjust the chambers, hence the before/after.

Discussion: The chamber measuring technique used is an old school technique called the Marker on the Bullet Technique. It’s very simple and very accurate. Measurements are +-.005” to .02” depending on the ramp/slope of the entrance to the barrel rifling. If the entrance is very sloped, it is harder to measure, but if it’s a very sharp unfinished entrance, it’s easier to measure and is accurate to within .005” or less. I purchased the Hornady Chamber measuring tool in the past; this was not very accurate. The somewhat loose bullet push technique is another good technique. However, the bullet push can be difficult to set neck tension properly. When performed correctly, it can be used in conjunction with the Marker on the Bullet Technique in order to find a very close estimate. There are also micrometer adjustable cartridge type tools, which you chamber and adjust to no close/ hard close. Many techniques are faster than the Marker on the Bullet Technique. However, I have found none more accurate. The slightest touch/disturbance can be observed on an unblemished black markered bullet surface.

The technique also shows a great deal about the chamber. The length, intensity, type, and number of the small marks observed reveals a great deal about the chambering. It shows the angle of entry into the bore, the finish work/quality of machining, and can illuminate issues. A bore scope is probably the only way to observe this more accurately.

If you attempt this technique for the first time, it will take 5x as long. Setting up the equipment and learning the technique is difficult the first time.

Twist Rates: The barrel twist rates were measured by marking the cleaning rod with the handle on the floor, using a tight dry patch, measuring start position to handle, pushing one full turn watching the marker on the handle, measuring the stop position, subtracting the two measures, repeating 5x times, and averaging the measurements.

Targets: The detailed accuracy testing occurred on 3 out of 5 of the rifles: Nemesis #057, Nemesis #128, and EDM #013. The control rifle, Tango-51, was fired minutes after the Nemesis in exactly the same manner. The rifles were fired on a seated wood bench, front and rear bags, at 100 yards. The weather was very good, rate of fire slow, and the feel of the shots/trigger breaks were smooth and consistent. The EDM was shot a few weeks later, under the same conditions. The Nemesis/EDM Rifles bipods were taken off. The mag wells/bidpod studs were jammed against the bag perpendicularly. This angle, the rear bag, and the muzzle break made a very solid position. Note: EDM #013 did not have threads or a break.

Discussion: EDM #047 was fired only 7x rounds at steel. Rounds hit steel at 80 yards. No detailed accuracy was performed before the rifle was returned due to the stock issues. Nemesis #560 was sold before testing could take place. Due to the numerous issues observed in the other rifles, I thought it was best to sell this rifle before losing value by firing it. I don’t regret this decision. However, not firing this new rifle is the largest weakness of the review. Having a newly purchased Nemesis would definitely illuminate any improvements the company has made in the area of machining and accuracy. I would gladly test any new Nemesis David wants to send me for review.

The Nemesis/EDM rifles were tested with 120x FGMM rounds and the best targets were selected for this review. Under the same conditions, a few minutes later, the Tac-Ops control rifle recorded an excellent target.

Comments on Nemesis Rifles: I think that taking the rough edges out of the chamber to bore entrance and making the entrance ramped would improve accuracy. I doubt the issues are in the barrel itself. I believe the rifles I tested could be adjusted to perform well (1 MOA) by a very experienced bolt action gunsmith. The chamber is the most important aspect of accuracy. The rough Nemesis throats might break-in with continued firing or with bore break in compounds. However, there is also a good chance it could break-in unevenly and become worse as the throat wears unevenly.

 

[gunlove]

finally fixed all the pictures etc. after the Photobucket internet collapse

 

[BigJimFish]

I had the much more enviable position of observing, in little bits and pieces, between this or that station or deployment, the saga of my brothers Nemesis/Windrunner infatuation as it grew and metastasized. I don't think he is being unfair to them. If anything, I think he still has a little soft spot for the idea and the cosmetics.

I think the review should be of aid to folks also taken in by the Hollywood appeal. Good work.

Also, how is it that it was you that was interested in these things in the first place. You usually go for very classic looks and it is usually me who is more taken by the next shiny. Though, that shiny is usally in the form of some blinged out race gun thing.

 

[gunlove]

Thanks, you know how much work it is to put a good review together. I wish I could have found a decent review before I bought even one of these things.

 

[gunlove]

there's an old EDM on GB right now, Bill Ritchie's original were the only ones worth a damn