GAP Tempest

[skeetlee]

How does this Tempest action stack up against all the rest?
I am thinking about trying one, but from what i read im not so sure its the smart move? I searched several old post, and have read some questionable reviews.
Light pin hits on primers. trigger issues. Stuff like This trigger works for me but not the next guy, No timney 2 stage, no timney single stage. The BA will work if you can find a hanger 10 20 or was it 30??
I see a lot of different actions that come through my rifle shop but i havent seen one of these. I have no personal opinions. I love my BAT and Barnard 3 lugs actions, so i am naturally drawn to this tempest. I just dont have time to mess around . While building rifles for others, leaves me very limited time for my own enjoyment. So, whats the bottom line on these Tempest actions? Are they worth the trouble? Will i have primer failures? Do i have to buy a 500$ BA trigger and hope i get my hands on the proper trigger hanger? I love my TL3 but id like to try something new. The Defiance Deviant action are a rock solid choice as well. Ive build on several and never an issue. I dont care for the fixed rail but it does add a lot of rigidity to the action. Kelbly Atlas is another solid choice!! Your thoughts???

 

[Supersubes]

A friend and I bought them. Took forever to get, although looks like CORE has them now. I chambered barrels for both of them (6.5cm and 6cm), but neither is done, so I havent shot them yet. They both came with .020 and .030 hangers. I ordered some .010's from ga, so i can tinker. The hangers are really easy to use. In fact easier than normal trigger installs if you ask me. Cant comment on the misfire issues since i havent fired them yet, but this action drastically changes how the trigger works. For example, a huber built for a remington to break at 2.5 lbs, breaks at 5 on the tempest(.010 hanger/.207 pin protrusion). I did the same with a trigger tech. Adjusted for 1.5 lb on a bighorn tl3, swapped to a tempest, pulls at 2.5 lb. Im leaning towards a jewell hvr for mine, but nothing to report yet.


As far as effort and smoothness, they are very smooth. The effort to operate them though, is significantly higher than a two lug. I bought a TL3 at the same time, and have been shooting that a bit. In contrast, its freakishly light to operate. I go back and forth between them as far as a favorite.

 

[5RWill]

Core and Terry Cross has them now. I've owned one for a while now, started the Tempest build thread when i got it. Another good place to ask this question also. The only truly light primer strikes that i've heard of are CCI. Which i'd just heard of, though i've only used FGMM so i can't attest to CCI being a problem but i believe someone said it's a well known issue of either CCI primer cups being pretty thick or the Tempest needing a heavier spring increasing the amount of force it takes to lift the bolt when recocking. If said person is getting light strikes with FGMM they're using the wrong hanger. And while the trigger hangers might be trouble shooting to get the firing pin protrusion once you get the correct one it should be smooth sailing. Also BA makes a hanger for the Tempest to my knowledge despite it not being listed on the site. I've also seen one person here mention the bolt handle breaking but i've never seen nor experienced that personally. It is however screwed on to the action, not a one piece bolt handle.

I whole heartedly disagree with the effort to operate. I have two 3-lug actions (Tempest, Sako 85) and a Bighorn SR3 and the SR3 honestly seems like it has a harder bolt lift recocking than my tempest. The sako 85 of course is incredibly tough to recock. What most don't really incorporate with the Tempest is forward pressure when chambering another round. They run it like a traditional 2-lug, which is running the bolt forward and immediately pulling the bolt handle straight down with no forward pressure. If you run the tempest like that it does come off as rough. If you add forward pressure and get used to it, it's quicker than any 2-lug i've used, as it naturally should be. Maybe i'm used to it though, i had a person ask me specifically about my tempest vs an AI this past weekend. I couldn't comment on the AI but he specifically said recocking the AI threw the rifle out of position. He handled my Ionbonded tempest and noted at how light the bolt lift was.

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/forum/...ds-lets-see-em

Personally i say go for it. I love mine as most people probably can tell. Also if you don't mind not having a swept bolt handle for a 60-degree throw the Curtis Axiom is getting great reviews and has a very light bolt lift. Friend of mine that i usually shoot with has one. I haven't put hands on it yet but the price he got it for DLC'd was impressive.

Shanerbanner10 can also give some insight on the tempest as he's ran one for some time now, with more rounds down the tube than me.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

I had one for about 6 months and only reason I sold it was to slim down and buy an Ai.

like you I do all my own machining and setup. I dont know if I got lucky or what but I had zero issues that I can recall. 5rwill mentions the CCI primer issues and Ive read them as well but Ive only run CCI in my handloads and never had an issue. I had mine DLC coated and compared to an Ai the tempest is a bit tougher but not by a huge amount. The bolt/action works better the faster you run it...the less babying the better. You can run it slow but like Will said forward pressure when closing helps tremendously. In either case it was a very smooth action and I didnt find myself coming off target, off dead nuts point of aim..sure but lets be honest are we really able to do that with any action? As far as trigger pull weights...ive honestly never adjusted in a 700 then put it in a tempest to compare. I hat a timney CE in mine and was still able to adjust to 1.5lbs my prefered weight and no issues.

My only two pieces of advice.
1) before coating I sat with a bare action and dry fired the crap out of it for a few weeks. Advice id read on any custom was to do so to smooth it out before coatings.
2) im sure you will but measure from the face of the action to the closest part of tge bolt face. The print for the tenon tells you a length but a couple people including myself have found slight contact of boltface/tenon.

now dont get me wrong...a good 2 lug will be easier on bolt lift. But having used customs both 2 and 3 lug I will be going back to a tempest should I buy another custom for a build.

 

[skeetlee]

I would venture to say that the trigger hangers are more for timing than pin fall although they kinda go hand in hand. Past studies show that a remington type firing pin needs a min of .230 of fall to be effective. I think its .230 if not its .240 a pin fall of .214 is a bit concerning to me. Im not sure what i will do buy i do appreciate the info. Lee

 

[Supersubes]

Ga's preference is .18x"-.20x" if I recall. The spring is totally different than a remington. Much shorter, and a fraction of the coils, so it wont have the same characteristics of a remmy spring. On this action, i believe they were trying to keep cocking effort down with the three lug design. On a Remington, I agree, moving the trigger via different hangers would be for cock on close timing.


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[Shanerbanner10]

I would venture to say that the trigger hangers are more for timing than pin fall although they kinda go hand in hand. Past studies show that a remington type firing pin needs a min of .230 of fall to be effective. I think its .230 if not its .240 a pin fall of .214 is a bit concerning to me. Im not sure what i will do buy i do appreciate the info. Lee

Gap include a "technical" paper that states the pin extrusion from the shroud should be .180-.190" for proper protrusion. As long as that is adjusted properly, you have your trigger in the correct hanger and the sear adjusted properly, you should not have any issues whatsoever. I've been running a Tempest since April and have 1500 rounds on it with many thousands more cycles of the bolt. Its a great action. I have had zero light strikes.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Yes...I believe mine was 0.186, Timney CE in the 30 hanger if I remember right. zero issues like Shanerbanner10. Shoot for that window and you should be good.

 

[skeetlee]

I still haven't purchased a tempest, although I think about doing so at least twice a week. Lol. I did but a TL3 and I really like it. The bighorn is the shit for BR and Dasher size cases. Feeding and extraction. I will most likely pick up a tempest soon. Are these tempest actions still in high demand? The 3 lug, lite pin thing still concerns me. Also are the tempest a straight drop in Remy style action. Other than the old release? How does the feed port line up on a rem 700 stock?
I wish I'd see one come through my shop. Lee

 

[jzwolen]

Its a close drop in, might just need to upon up the trigger area for the hanger. Demand may have gone down a little bit, as of right now, both OTMTactical and CoreShooting have them sitting in stock. I would have sold you my used one Skeet, for a fellow Illini, but I shipped mine off to TX last month.

 

[5RWill]

I still haven't purchased a tempest, although I think about doing so at least twice a week. Lol. I did but a TL3 and I really like it. The bighorn is the shit for BR and Dasher size cases. Feeding and extraction. I will most likely pick up a tempest soon. Are these tempest actions still in high demand? The 3 lug, lite pin thing still concerns me. Also are the tempest a straight drop in Remy style action. Other than the old release? How does the feed port line up on a rem 700 stock?
I wish I'd see one come through my shop. Lee

I was under impression the TL3 was the way to go for BR/Dasher due to controlled round feed and mechanical ejection. Hell i know lots exclusively running the TL3 for the BR/Dasher. Will say i would think you'd have more problems out of the Tempest if you're set on running a short stubby cartridge like that. Light strikes and firing pin protrusion with the tempest is usually dependent on trigger hanger and trigger. Timney CE, Jewell, Huber, BnA, all work.

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[pangelos]

I’ve had my tempest for almost a year now and have been super happy with it. I did have some light primer strikes but it was due to the firing pin unthreading from the shroud. Be sure to loctite the two screws on the shroud and you won’t have those issues.

Ive owned a lot of custom actions and it’s been by far my favorite the 60 degree bolt throw and it runs AW mags awesome. I had mine nitrited before they offered that as an option and I would highly recommend getting them that way. Super slick and fast.

 

[tlg308]

I had GAP build me a rifle with the tempest action in 6.5x47L. I really like it. It's super smooth to operate(mine was melonited) and the bolt lift is pretty nice(way better than my buddies AIAW). With actions being so good people seem to exploit the minuet things about an action. The bolt lift might not be as smooth than a defiance or other 90 degree action, but the tempest runs much faster. I've put about 500rds through mine and have had 3 failures. They were all because of the primers though (CCI BR4). Each strike looked really solid but the round failed to go off. When I had GAP build the rifle I sent them a Jewel trigger so I don't know what hanger they used, but it has run perfectly. The thing I like the most about the action is how effortlessly it feeds from the AW mags. Can't go wrong with it.

 

[5RWill]

I really don't think the bolt lift is bad at all. It's gotten to the point where i don't notice that much off a difference between it and other actions. Like our bighorns. Sure they're a bit lighter than the Tempest but you have to apply that force over more distance and as a result i'm much slower cycling our SR3 than i am my Tempest.

 

[Gunmutt]

Can someone explain how to disassemble the bolt on a Tempest action

 

[Supersubes]

Hold the bolt body in the weak hand and turn the shroud clockwise (as viewed from the rear)with the strong hand. Its reasonably high effort. Make sure to capture the shroud/striker assembly as it will want to shoot out of the bolt body.

 

[Tyler Kemp]

I had the lugs on the firing assembly shear off, and the firing pin itself become loose and give light primer strikes. Bolt lift isn't bad, but bolt close has a huge "hitch" in it. Not nearly as smooth as I expected. It is damn accurate though.

 

[5RWill]

I had the lugs on the firing assembly shear off, and the firing pin itself become loose and give light primer strikes. Bolt lift isn't bad, but bolt close has a huge "hitch" in it. Not nearly as smooth as I expected. It is damn accurate though.

The hitch just has to be countered with forward force i think. Leas that's how i do it. If i run it like a two lug i have the same issues. Is the hitch you'r'e talking about at 1:30 Tyler?

 

[Twinsen]

I'd avoid it. It's way too much money for something that pisses me off every time I use it. You're going to end up with a $3,000+ rifle that you hate. Explore other options.

 

[308pirate]

It's way too much money for something that pisses me off every time I use it. You're going to end up with a $3,000+ rifle that you hate.

Been reading this thread with interest and that one thought is the one that keeps popping in my head. If I had to deal with a "hitch" in the action every time I used it, I'd be pissed to the point of getting rid of it.

 

[jzwolen]

While i dont recall a 'hitch' everytime i cycled the action, i did think it got pretty smooth after 2k rnds. I did get rid of it for other reasons though.

 

[Tyler Kemp]

The hitch just has to be countered with forward force i think. Leas that's how i do it. If i run it like a two lug i have the same issues. Is the hitch you'r'e talking about at 1:30 Tyler?

That is George's personal gun and while yes, that is the hitch I'm talking about, it's WAY worse in my personal gun. Now, I don't have 2k rounds through it, but every single person who has fondled it mentions the "hitch". I'm not sure what to call it for lack of a better word but I can shoot a quick video...there's a noticeable stop that takes more force than it should to close the bolt. Sure working it as hard and fast as you can mitigates that....but isn't my style if I'm just laying there shooting or getting some drop data.

 

[Supersubes]

The hitch just has to be countered with forward force i think. Leas that's how i do it. If i run it like a two lug i have the same issues. Is the hitch you'r'e talking about at 1:30 Tyler?

I’ve seen that vid before but watching that moment at 1:30 again, I can tell you its caused by the extractor having a hard tim getting over the case rim due to the extractors shape and surface finish. Ive only barreled two tempests, and both needed the extractor polished. I do it on a wheel but it could be done with a very fine file and some light sandpaper. I dont touch the underside at all.

 

[Supersubes]

That is George's personal gun and while yes, that is the hitch I'm talking about, it's WAY worse in my personal gun. Now, I don't have 2k rounds through it, but every single person who has fondled it mentions the "hitch". I'm not sure what to call it for lack of a better word but I can shoot a quick video...there's a noticeable stop that takes more force than it should to close the bolt. Sure working it as hard and fast as you can mitigates that....but isn't my style if I'm just laying there shooting or getting some drop data.

Check ot my last post. You can fix that in a few mins. Hit me up if you have trouble getting the extractor out.

 

[5RWill]

Tyler Kemp i hear ya man. That’s how i counter it is pretty much running it hard. Makes sense what supersubes is saying. If that was mitigated it would be extremely nice not having to run it so hard.

Id really like to ask Horizon or George if they had issues at one point with parts of production. Granted I’m sure the people suing them without complaint don’t post but in the 11 page tempest thread I’ve got lots of post with issues. Now Shane’s has gone down too due to with the shroud coming uncocked during a match. It’s disappointing to hear truthfully because i really do love mine. That extractor polish would make it that much faster without the hitch.

 

[jzwolen]

I do recall the 'hitch' now, and it definitely was the extractor. While I did not polish the extractor at all, I did bend it back slightly so it wasn't so tight on chambering. Seemed to resolve that issue for the most part.

I did also have the shroud uncock during a match...not fun.

 

[Twinsen]

Been reading this thread with interest and that one thought is the one that keeps popping in my head. If I had to deal with a "hitch" in the action every time I used it, I'd be pissed to the point of getting rid of it.

Mine is in 6.5x47, which is a shoot-all-day cartridge. It's the most accurate rifle I've ever touched. The chassis fits me perfect, as most or all do. I've got her all painted up pretty. It seems to have all its ducks in a row to be my favorite, but that action has me reaching for other rifles to take out. If I could put it in a box with $500 and have a Mausingfield pop out, you'd hear a sonic crack from how fast I'd do it.

 

[MuleyTime]

Just throwing this out there for you SkeetLee....If a 3 lug 60 degree is what you're after, also take a look (or get your hands on) at the Curtis Custom. I really like mine, and they are really getting popular around here in the PRS leagues.

 

[5RWill]

Just throwing this out there for you SkeetLee....If a 3 lug 60 degree is what you're after, also take a look (or get your hands on) at the Curtis Custom. I really like mine, and they are really getting popular around here in the PRS leagues.

That's another route for sure. I have two friends with Curtis' who seem to love them. I've not heard a single complaint against them either. I personally do not like the bolt handle and have asked Chase if they would ever field a swept back bolt handle. Which he said it's something they'll consider.

 

[jzwolen]

That's another route for sure. I have two friends with Curtis' who seem to love them. I've not heard a single complaint against them either. I personally do not like the bolt handle and have asked Chase if they would ever field a swept back bolt handle. Which he said it's something they'll consider.

I made the switch to the Axiom, and love it. The bolt handle location has been the only real adjustment going from the Tempest to the Axiom. I was even thinking of cutting/bending the Axiom handle back a few degrees to at least mimic a Rem700...though i dont have the TIG welding equipment, or balls to do it!

 

[craigos]

great if you dont cerakote it - gets gummy.

 

[5RWill]

great if you dont cerakote it - gets gummy.

Truthfully there is only one cerakoted custom i've come across that felt normal to me and it was an LRI done Deviant a friend of mine has. Chad and the crew know how to apply cerakote and keep it thin. The rest that i've messed with felt gummy as hell. The only scenario i thought it improved a particular action was on a trued 700. Though i still would deviate to DLC or Nitride personally. I'd like to see how the new Cerakote Elite is. Supposed to have a much higher lubricity factor than regular cerakote.

FWIW i'm almost positive chase also has a proprietary version of DLC he's working on that is supposed to be more wear resistant. That's really the only con to me. It's slick as owl shit but it does wear faster than you'd think given how the coating is applied.

 

[jzwolen]

Truthfully there is only one cerakoted custom i've come across that felt normal to me and it was an LRI done Deviant a friend of mine has. Chad and the crew know how to apply cerakote and keep it thin. The rest that i've messed with felt gummy as hell. The only scenario i thought it improved a particular action was on a trued 700. Though i still would deviate to DLC or Nitride personally. I'd like to see how the new Cerakote Elite is. Supposed to have a much higher lubricity factor than regular cerakote.

FWIW i'm almost positive chase also has a proprietary version of DLC he's working on that is supposed to be more wear resistant. That's really the only con to me. It's slick as owl shit but it does wear faster than you'd think given how the coating is applied.

I've got the fully DLC'd Axiom, and at the same usage level, I'm 100% sure the nitrided Tempest was showing signs of wear, and the Axiom looks 100% flawless.

 

[5RWill]

My Tempest is near flawless with DLC, but i'm only 800 rounds in. There are slight signs of wear but it's on the raceway towards the tang, not on the bolt itself.

 

[308pirate]

I'm 100% sure the nitrided Tempest was showing signs of wear

I'm sure that you, like 99% of the people who talk about nitriding in gun forums, is wrong.

The black "finish" that is a by-product of nitride hardening eventually wears off with friction. The CASE HARDENING (the reason for nitriding something) does not wear out unless you rub it constantly with something even harder (like mid 70s's Rockwell C).

 

[jzwolen]

I have zero issues being wrong, but its very easy to interpret the black finish rubbing off as the actual nitrite.

 

[308pirate]

I have zero issues being wrong, but its very easy to interpret the black finish rubbing off as the actual nitrite.

It's very easy to do if one thinks nitriding is a "finish" or a "coating" when it is neither.

 

[InkedIan]

I have a question for the knowledgeable tempest guys out there. Does anyone know the exact measurement of the center line of the action to the top of the rail? I know the badger M2013 is 1.06" so I'm thinking it may be close.

 

[Supersubes]

I have a question for the knowledgeable tempest guys out there. Does anyone know the exact measurement of the center line of the action to the top of the rail? I know the badger M2013 is 1.06" so I'm thinking it may be close.

being a sloped base, it will depend on where youre measuring along the rail. The action diameter is 1.3490. Without taking mine apart, the rail is .310-.340, taking into account the curvature at the top of the action as best i can. So right around 1” at the center of the rail give or take a few thou.