Garmin 701 AB Zero offset when weather changed?

[PracticalTactical]

I have a question about the zero for the Garmin 701…

I do have the Tempe sensor as well.

I shoot both center fire and rim fire PRS and yesterday I shot a rim fire PRS match and the values were not right and I think I know why but not what to do about it.

Here’s the problem… I adjusted the Garmin last week for my 22 using a 100 yard zero when the weather was about 70 degrees and the drops agreed closely to actuals from 25 to 275 yards… But yesterday in 88 degree weather, those values were not right because the Garmin always goes with the 100 yard zero distance.

It knows the weather changed and adjusts for other distances, but the software does not know I am no longer zero at 100 yards.

I figure this is probably less of a problem for center fire since weather would not appreciably affect a 100 yard zero, but a 22 is affected.

In this case since it’s just a 22 the rounds were hitting high at 100 yards, but the Garmin should know that, but doesn’t and that caused all other values to be wrong.

Is there a setting somewhere to tell the thing that I zeroed it in todays weather but have it know that the zero is offset to compensate for weather when it changes?

Or am I just better off to zero the rifle at close range like 25 or 50 yards so the distance is too short for weather changes to have an effect?

 

[Dthomas3523]

I have a question about the zero for the Garmin 701…

I do have the Tempe sensor as well.

I shoot both center fire and rim fire PRS and yesterday I shot a rim fire PRS match and the values were not right and I think I know why but not what to do about it.

Here’s the problem… I adjusted the Garmin last week for my 22 using a 100 yard zero when the weather was about 70 degrees and the drops agreed closely to actuals from 25 to 275 yards… But yesterday in 88 degree weather, those values were not right because the Garmin always goes with the 100 yard zero distance.

It knows the weather changed and adjusts for other distances, but the software does not know I am no longer zero at 100 yards.

I figure this is probably less of a problem for center fire since weather would not appreciably affect a 100 yard zero, but a 22 is affected.

In this case since it’s just a 22 the rounds were hitting high at 100 yards, but the Garmin should know that, but doesn’t and that caused all other values to be wrong.

Is there a setting somewhere to tell the thing that I zeroed it in todays weather but have it know that the zero is offset to compensate for weather when it changes?

Or am I just better off to zero the rifle at close range like 25 or 50 yards so the distance is too short for weather changes to have an effect?

Why do you think the Garmin “should know” your zero changed??

If you don’t either:

A: re-zero
B: input a zero offset

Then your calculator will assume you have a good zero for 100yd (or whatever you tell it that it’s zero’d at) and give you data accordingly.

Garbage in garbage out scenario. Your calculator only knows what you tell it.

 

[PracticalTactical]

Well put it this way... Software users typically look at software for what it does... not what it should do.

Part of what I do in my day job is develop software, so I'm more of a what it should do guy... these days I do mostly CNC Machine Monitoring, ERP, MRP, Scheduling, Purchasing... that sort of thing. I pride myself in having an eye for opportunities that others miss and I create efficiencies by recognizing opportunities for advancement and building in features to take advantage of that.

This thread represents a perfect example of this... and what I would do, at least as an option.

If the AB software were to remember that I zeroed at a certain location, direction, velocity, temperature,,, etc.... then the next time I'm out in a different place and different weather conditions, it could compensate for the change in zero and automatically apply a zero offset.

There is no reason this would not be possible... I'm hoping that there's already a feature to do this that I am not aware of.

 

[PracticalTactical]

There's a second problem with the unit that I'm struggling with as well regarding the list of targets.

The software assumes that all targets are in the same direction relative to wind direction, but that is only applicable in a game like F Class.

Hunting or PRS for example may have targets pointing in a variety of directions, and it does not correctly compensate for that.

So the values are not correct for rotation of the earth, which is a small problem, but the big problem is wind direction.

It has no idea the wind is coming from the east... just 9:00

So if you have a target to the north its a full value cross wind, but a target to the west actually has a down range wind.

The unit assumes its a 9:00 wind in both north target and west target, so the user has to be very careful about interpreting the information correctly in any kind of real world scenario.

The only screen that is of any value is the single target screen, where we input the conditions. All other screens are pretty much for F Class shooters only.

 

[Dthomas3523]

There's a second problem with the unit that I'm struggling with as well regarding the list of targets.

The software assumes that all targets are in the same direction relative to wind direction, but that is only applicable in a game like F Class.

Hunting or PRS for example may have targets pointing in a variety of directions, and it does not correctly compensate for that.

So the values are not correct for rotation of the earth, which is a small problem, but the big problem is wind direction.

It has no idea the wind is coming from the east... just 9:00

So if you have a target to the north its a full value cross wind, but a target to the west actually has a down range wind.

The unit assumes its a 9:00 wind in both north target and west target, so the user has to be very careful about interpreting the information correctly in any kind of real world scenario.

The only screen that is of any value is the single target screen, where we input the conditions. All other screens are pretty much for F Class shooters only.

Not sure what you’re getting at here either.

You are able to put a dof and direction of wind for each target.

Also, no ballistic calculator gets you dead on for wind because we can’t accurately measure all the difference directions(and other things) wind does along the path of the bullet.

You have some extremely unrealistic expectations of what ballistic software does.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Well put it this way... Software users typically look at software for what it does... not what it should do.

Part of what I do in my day job is develop software, so I'm more of a what it should do guy... these days I do mostly CNC Machine Monitoring, ERP, MRP, Scheduling, Purchasing... that sort of thing. I pride myself in having an eye for opportunities that others miss and I create efficiencies by recognizing opportunities for advancement and building in features to take advantage of that.

This thread represents a perfect example of this... and what I would do, at least as an option.

If the AB software were to remember that I zeroed at a certain location, direction, velocity, temperature,,, etc.... then the next time I'm out in a different place and different weather conditions, it could compensate for the change in zero and automatically apply a zero offset.

There is no reason this would not be possible... I'm hoping that there's already a feature to do this that I am not aware of.

LOL.......guess you should release your own software. You could easily be independently wealthy since it’s so easy for software to do something that none of them do.

 

[Dthomas3523]

And yes, you should be zero’ing your rifle at a distance that is not affected enough by your environment to matter.

We zero at 100 with centerfire as environment doesn’t affect it much and all distances are “up” in adjustment from there.

The equivalent distance to achieve this with a .22 is 30/35 yds.

 

[Dthomas3523]

If you insist on keeping 100yd zero, you’ll likely need to utilize the MV temp table. That will help with temperature changes.

As of right now, your data only has one velocity. Add the velocity that was needed at the higher temperature to make the data lined up and you’ll have two data points for temperature.

 

[PracticalTactical]

Not sure what you’re getting at here either.

You are able to put a dof and direction of wind for each target.

Also, no ballistic calculator gets you dead on for wind because we can’t accurately measure all the difference directions(and other things) wind does along the path of the bullet.

You have some extremely unrealistic expectations of what ballistic software does.

I'm curious why you seem to be getting confrontational with me here.

There is nothing "unrealistic" about what I expect because I know how easy it is for a software developer to do it.... It's just a matter of will.

You say that I am able to put dof and direction of wind for each target??? Please explain?

Nowhere that I have seen can I input the direction of the wind via compass bearing, so if two targets are in different directions, the W and E are misleading because the software bases those values according to the clock system regardless of target direction relative to wind and not the compass bearing.

If all your targets are not in the same direction there is no point to using the lists as currently calculated by the devise.

That is the interpretive difference between a desktop software application and a field device such as the 701.

Your comments would be justified if we were talking about PC software, the Garmin 701 is a real time/real location device that is used in the field where targets could be anywhere in a 360 degree circle .

In this context the wind is coming from a compass bearing (give or take) and all targets are in a multitude of directions and distances and the current software does not seem to identify with this.

As far as I'm concerned this is a key point that needs to be addressed by AB.

 

[Mike_Pancake]

Bro, juwt change your DOF and wind and write down the dope for that target...its software...its not AI.... its pretty easy to do actually

 

[_Windrider_]

Well put it this way... Software users typically look at software for what it does... not what it should do.

Part of what I do in my day job is develop software, so I'm more of a what it should do guy... these days I do mostly CNC Machine Monitoring, ERP, MRP, Scheduling, Purchasing... that sort of thing. I pride myself in having an eye for opportunities that others miss and I create efficiencies by recognizing opportunities for advancement and building in features to take advantage of that.

This thread represents a perfect example of this... and what I would do, at least as an option.

If the AB software were to remember that I zeroed at a certain location, direction, velocity, temperature,,, etc.... then the next time I'm out in a different place and different weather conditions, it could compensate for the change in zero and automatically apply a zero offset.

There is no reason this would not be possible... I'm hoping that there's already a feature to do this that I am not aware of.

Just so you know, AB Mobile does this. One thing you have to understand is that these devices in the AB ecosystem only offer the options that the manufacturer wants. Example, kestrel AB doesn’t have it either or turret corrections. They have chosen not include this as of now. You need to speak up to Garmin.

 

[PracticalTactical]

Just so you know, AB Mobile does this. One thing you have to understand is that these devices in the AB ecosystem only offer the options that the manufacturer wants. Example, kestrel AB doesn’t have it either or turret corrections. They have chosen not include this as of now. You need to speak up to Garmin.

That's an interesting point... Thank you for that.

I never looked at it from that perspective.

Manufacturers will often leave out features for simplicity to reduce tech support obligations... and to leave room for advancement so they can sell the GEN II version later.

They can play dumb and saturate the market in the meanwhile.