Gas Block/Shoulder, Lilja Barrel, and an Old Gunsmith

[pwsamiam]

I had Lilja and an old gunsmith set me up with a 22ARC 24" 1:8 bull barrel and so far the rifle shoots great without any problems at all (yet?) The 12 shot Lilja breakin produced 2ea 1 hole 3 shot groups at 50yds and all subsequent 100yd groups were 0.3-0.9. Very happy. But...

When I asked the old gunsmith about a +1 gas tube, he replied that he will make the rifle upper with a standard rifle length gas tube. A little perplexed, I wondered why, and he insisted that people were reporting problems from the range using a +1 tube/port. The gunsmith put my gas block an the chamber side of the shoulder vice the muzzle side, thus the standard rifle length tube.

Ejection is excellent, well within the 3-4oclock zone with 75gr and 62gr 22ARC from Hornady. No feed or lock-back issues.
Also, note he AR15 rifle is not suppressed, just a crown with no muzzle device at all.

You guys are the experts or at least you think you are. Am I screwed down the road with this placement of the adjustable gas block???? Or is it much ado about nothing.?
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."????

 

[TonyAngel]

I'm sorry. I'm not understanding the question and am having trouble picturing what you’re trying to describe. Although I didn’t see it stated, I assume that the center of attention is an adjustable gas block.

Are you saying that you bought a Lilja barrel with the gas port drilled in a rifle length +1 position? Are you further saying that the gas block was somehow installed backwards to allow the use of a standard length gas tube? Is it now such that gas adjustments are made from the breech side of the gas block, rather than the muzzle side? Or is it collar adjustable? Which gas block are we talking about?

A picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[Redlion]

I'm sorry. I'm not understanding the question and am having trouble picturing what you’re trying to describe. Although I didn’t see it stated, I assume that the center of attention is an adjustable gas block.

Are you saying that you bought a Lilja barrel with the gas port drilled in a rifle length +1 position? Are you further saying that the gas block was somehow installed backwards to allow the use of a standard length gas tube? Is it now such that gas adjustments are made from the breech side of the gas block, rather than the muzzle side? Or is it collar adjustable? Which gas block are we talking about?

A picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[pwsamiam]

I'm sorry. I'm not understanding the question and am having trouble picturing what you’re trying to describe. Although I didn’t see it stated, I assume that the center of attention is an adjustable gas block.

Are you saying that you bought a Lilja barrel with the gas port drilled in a rifle length +1 position? Are you further saying that the gas block was somehow installed backwards to allow the use of a standard length gas tube? Is it now such that gas adjustments are made from the breech side of the gas block, rather than the muzzle side? Or is it collar adjustable? Which gas block are we talking about?

A picture is worth a thousand words.

---------------
Should have posted this pic initially and saved us both some typing. Adjustable gas block is clearly on the chamber side of the shoulder. It's a low profile block, but I have to dig thru email to see what he called it. I think he kinda screwed me on the gas block brand, but as long as its working and if "it ain't broke, don't fix it", then I can live without my usual Superlative Arms block as I usually use on my other rigs. Probably, not of much concern, just odd.

 

[TonyAngel]

Sorry bud, I don't get what you mean by the gas block being on the chamber side of the journal. Either you ordered a finished barrel with a 2" journal from Lilja or your gunsmith spun you up a barrel and chose to go with a 2" journal.

Your gas block appears to be exactly where it's supposed to be (over the gas port) and in the correct orientation. I don't see why you couldn't put a SA gas block on there. There's nothing weird about that setup, although you don't see too many long journals anymore. Most barrels aren't cut to accept a long gas block or fixed front sight these days.

I don't see how you would be screwed down the road. If you ordered a barrel with a +1 gas port location from Lilja and they sent you that, then your issue is with Lilja. If your gunsmith ignored your request and ordered a barrel with a standard port location, then you can either choose to be upset for not getting what you wanted or defer to his expertise (which seems to have gotten you an accurate and good shooting rig.

You do know that just adding a +1 gas tube won't transform the rig into a +1 gas system, right? The +1 doesn't refer to the gas tube. It is a reference to the port location on the barrel.

 

[msgriff]

Your barrel maker didn't screw you. That looks like the standard 1.92" long gas journal, and although designed for an FSB like on an M16, it will work fine with the shorter low profile gas blocks/AGBs. And the gas port location looks correct, 0.295" - 0.300" from the shoulder (sometimes 0.275" for a "no cap gap" install). The shorter 1" long gas journals are becoming more popular, but can also limit you for some non-FSB "low profile" gas blocks/AGBs, which are longer than 1", like some of the JP Enterprises models. Your gas journal length would only be an aesthetic issue with the gas block/AGB that you have, and typically won't be noticed under a handguard.

 

[pwsamiam]

The blank came from Lilja and was forwarded to a very grumpy 80+ year old gunsmith, so I did not dare to question him on the length of gas tube required nor the location of the gas port until I actually got the finished barrel back here. Since I have assembled only 5 complete builds, you are dealing with a Noob here! The previous drop-in 204 Ruger AR15 barrel from Lilja had the gas port on the opposite side of the shoulder, so when I got the 22ARC barrel, I was surprised. The 204 Ruger block is fore, whereas the 22ARC block is aft of the barrel shoulder.

Let me check my terminology which I obviously got wrong: "In the context of AR-15 rifles, the "journal" refers to the diameter of the barrel where the gas block is installed, typically .625 or .750 inches" or in my case .920...
"You will notice a "shoulder" just before the gas block (towards the rear of the barrel). This shoulder is to help index your gas block on your barrel by serving as a reference point."

I should have said 'shoulder' vice 'journal' and I also assumed that a 24" barrel would require a longer gas tube vice an 18" barrel.

Like I said, the rig is shooting crazy good groups for this 'Average Joe' shooter.
Very happy with both the Lilja 22ARC .920 and 204 Ruger .920 barrels.

The 80+year old gunsmith forgot to send an extra part with the finished barrel, so I asked him to make me a thread protector and just send it with the forgotten part. Got the missing part and the thread protector, but the thread protector was the wrong diameter and the threaded hole was visibly crooked/off center! He corrected the situation, but I think his pride was hurt. He's too old I'm afraid.

 

[pwsamiam]

Your barrel maker didn't screw you. That looks like the standard 1.92" long gas journal, and although designed for an FSB like on an M16, it will work fine with the shorter low profile gas blocks/AGBs. And the gas port location looks correct, 0.295" - 0.300" from the shoulder (sometimes 0.275" for a "no cap gap" install). The shorter 1" long gas journals are becoming more popular, but can also limit you for some non-FSB "low profile" gas blocks/AGBs, which are longer than 1", like some of the JP Enterprises models. Your gas journal length would only be an aesthetic issue with the gas block/AGB that you have, and typically won't be noticed under a handguard.

Didn't say the barrel maker screwed me. That's just your moronic interpretation of what I stated. I should have said "shoulder" vice "journal". Thanks for the excess info.

 

[River44]

personally I think your gunsmith screwed you.

 

[msgriff]

Didn't say the barrel maker screwed me. That's just your interpretation of what I stated. I should have said "shoulder" vice "journal". Thanks for the excess info.

"The gunsmith put my gas block an the chamber side of the journal vice the muzzle side, thus the standard rifle length tube".
This led me to believe that you are ignorant when it comes to AR barrels, which is probably true. But now I see that you claim to be from the Ukraine, so it might be something a bit more pervasive. Good luck!

 

[1911hombre]

I'm confused, is "vice" Ukraine for "versus"??? Please realize that when you join a forum and your very first posts are about a hypothetical problem that may or may not arise sometime down the road, the responses may not be what you are looking for.

 

[pwsamiam]

I'm confused, is "vice" Ukraine for "versus"??? Please realize that when you join a forum and your very first posts are about a hypothetical problem that may or may not arise sometime down the road, the responses may not be what you are looking for.

The responses here are from microcephalic trolls who make themselves feel big by throwing out a flood of babble when a simple response of "no, it shouldn't be a problem" would suffice.

A proper response, from a much better website than Snipe Hide, is thus: "You could run into problems (especially rim lifts) using slower powders with heavy bullets. I use a +2 gas system on my 28" .223 spacegun using 75 gr bullets with N-550; even with an adjustable gas block there were problems. If you're shooting light bullets and powders at at the faster end of you may be OK."

The wanna-be tactical clowns here do not know as much as they think they know.

A professional response from a MN website and not the usual Sniper's Hide trailer-trash snipes and GED grads:

"Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong here but it looks like he did yours just like any other. It appears that he left the gas block journal long, as some blocks are longer than yours. But, the gas port is in the same location regardless of how long the block or the journal is, for a given system length.

As for ideal gas system length, bbl length, cartridge and powders/loads affect what's ideal and what's not, even with an adjustable gas block. For that reason, I think you need to talk to your smith. Sounds like he steered you right since it's working well and you mention no brass or cycling issues.

I've done a total of ONE 22 ARC AR15 build for someone. IIRC, it was a 20" bbl when done and I used a std rifle length system on it. The customer mentioned a +1 and I preferred a mid length, so the std was a compromise that we were both comfortable with and worked well. There are several ways to optimize gas, aside from gas system length and I seriously doubt you'll find any accuracy from the length that you can't tune the rest of the rifle to with the many possible things you can use to tune it with.

The one thing I'll say that I agree with is that you should be able to squeeze better accuracy from it, given top shelf components etc, likely with load work. But, IME, an AR that shoots CONSISTENTLY better than the low .3's at 100 is pretty rare. There are several factors working against BR accuracy in a functioning gas gun. That said, it's not a BR rifle and low .3's ain't shabby. I'm not talking your best groups, but consistently. Big difference there. There's also this thing that many, many people fail to fully acknowledge and that's wind..even at 100 yards. So, are you shooting over flags? If not, you'll never consistently shoot below the condition value."

 

[pwsamiam]

I'm confused, is "vice" Ukraine for "versus"??? Please realize that when you join a forum and your very first posts are about a hypothetical problem that may or may not arise sometime down the road, the responses may not be what you are looking for.

Stay confused. I thought the Orange Clown was rounding up all you Tactical Clown "hombres" for internment camps?

 

[pwsamiam]

personally I think your gunsmith screwed you.

You have been rewarded with the 1st 'Tactical Clown' trophy for your vapid response.

 

[pwsamiam]

View attachment 8640360

You have been rewarded with the 2nd 'Tactical Clown' trophy for your vapid response and mocking your deceased father.

 

[pwsamiam]

Sorry bud, I don't get what you mean by the gas block being on the chamber side of the journal. Either you ordered a finished barrel with a 2" journal from Lilja or your gunsmith spun you up a barrel and chose to go with a 2" journal.

Your gas block appears to be exactly where it's supposed to be (over the gas port) and in the correct orientation. I don't see why you couldn't put a SA gas block on there. There's nothing weird about that setup, although you don't see too many long journals anymore. Most barrels aren't cut to accept a long gas block or fixed front sight these days.

I don't see how you would be screwed down the road. If you ordered a barrel with a +1 gas port location from Lilja and they sent you that, then your issue is with Lilja. If your gunsmith ignored your request and ordered a barrel with a standard port location, then you can either choose to be upset for not getting what you wanted or defer to his expertise (which seems to have gotten you an accurate and good shooting rig.

You do know that just adding a +1 gas tube won't transform the rig into a +1 gas system, right? The +1 doesn't refer to the gas tube. It is a reference to the port location on the barrel.

I'm not your "bud", pal.
Enjoy a 'Tactical Clown' trophy for your smug response.

 

[pwsamiam]

Your barrel maker didn't screw you. That looks like the standard 1.92" long gas journal, and although designed for an FSB like on an M16, it will work fine with the shorter low profile gas blocks/AGBs. And the gas port location looks correct, 0.295" - 0.300" from the shoulder (sometimes 0.275" for a "no cap gap" install). The shorter 1" long gas journals are becoming more popular, but can also limit you for some non-FSB "low profile" gas blocks/AGBs, which are longer than 1", like some of the JP Enterprises models. Your gas journal length would only be an aesthetic issue with the gas block/AGB that you have, and typically won't be noticed under a handguard.

Enjoy a Tactical Clown Boy trophy for being a sniping tard.

 

[1911hombre]

I’m sorry, this is pure comedy gold. Haven’t laughed this hard since @TheGerman. Or @The King.
This should be in the Bear Pit at this point.

 

[cas6969]

Are there Lowes in Ukraine?

There's also a box from Optics Planet, which makes me think the whole photo is an AI fake. They don't have shipping boxes. To need them they'd have to have stuff to ship.

 

[pwsamiam]

Are there Lowes in Ukraine?

There's also a box from Optics Planet, which makes me think the whole photo is an AI fake. They don't have shipping boxes. To need them they'd have to have stuff to ship.

Just to keep it relevant:

Good Lord, you guys really are a pack of chumps aren't you? Y'all finally noticed something besides your sister's bottom in the trailer park toilet?? "AI fake" now that's special! Here's how they dress in Texas, enjoy and Slava Ukraini!

 

[cas6969]

 

[TonyTheTiger]

This got silly fast. I thought the OP would finally ask the question in a way that could be understood, get an answer, and we'd all be on our way. But somehow he chose to get offended and start drawing pictures of himself?

 

[pwsamiam]

This got silly fast. I thought the OP would finally ask the question in a way that could be understood, get an answer, and we'd all be on our way. But somehow he chose to get offended and start drawing pictures of himself?

Here is your earned free Snipe's Hide (Where the snipes hide) Gift Certificate:

 

[BCP]

View attachment 8641784

I'm guessing this is is the Ukraine my tax dollars pay for, if it were Texas everybody would be a lot fatter