Gas guns in Tac matches - Making any gains?

[ReaperDriver]

I think I asked this question about a year or so ago, but since then - the prevalence and quality of accurate gas guns seems to have exploded lately.

So are gas guns winning or placing in tac matches against the traditional bolt gun more frequently than in the past? Just wondering if the accuracy gap is shrinking enough now with the OBRs, MWS's, POFs, GAP AR-10's, etc that folks are thinking of moving away from a bolt gun.

I know a gas gun will likely never touch a bolt gun in the 1000yd+ arena - but under that, it seems like the gas guns are quickly bridging that gap and look to be competitive. Especially in the timed, multi-round engagement stages.

 

[BERTMAN77MK2]

Re: Gas guns in Tac matches - Making any gains?

the POF in 6-5 is winning matches--ask NOMAD AND HIS TEAM

 

[Hellbender]

Re: Gas guns in Tac matches - Making any gains?

The accuracy isn't the problem.

The long trigger lock time (2 ms for bolt vs 10+ ms for gas) dictates the shooter properly "follow through" 5 times longer for a gasser.

The "triple recoil" effect adds to the problems.

They are very tough to drive as well as a bolt gun.

The shooter can't make the common mistakes which a bolt gun forgives. They are very frustrating and challenging, which is why I shoot one most of the time.

Also, most of the long range tactical comps are designed around the bolt gun, ie, see who can hit the 1/4" dot at 100 yards 5 times in a row in 2 minutes, etc.

It's a tool in the toolbox, if I was in-theater, I'd want one.

But, as most of the competition layouts are designed around the bolt gun, a gas gunner will almost always be at a disadvantage.

If the comps were written to favor the gasser, things may be different.

 

[dmg308]

Re: Gas guns in Tac matches - Making any gains?

Gas guns won at the recent Sniper challenge the the millitary puts on.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Gas guns in Tac matches - Making any gains?

To Bertman and DMG - were those gasguns going up against experienced Bolt gun guys? And if so, was the COF more favorable to the gasgun like Hellbender says or were they normal Bolt-oriented COF's?

 

[dmg308]

Re: Gas guns in Tac matches - Making any gains?

It was against military snipers from around the world so I would say yes to the experience bolt runner part.As far as COF Im sure some were to the gas gun advantage but can't say for sure.

 

[sinister]

Re: Gas guns in Tac matches - Making any gains?

The SF Sniper School Cadre analyzed the competition and found most shots were going to be within 800 meters -- perfect for gas guns.

The cadre's and USASOC teams went up against 29 other experienced teams armed with bolt guns and spotter rifles.

They decisively beat the competition by a pretty good margin. Their scores were more a reflection of talent and experience than hardware. These are guys (like the previous AMU champion teams) who had solid foundation reinforced daily by training students.

Solid delivery of the basics on-demand regardless of conditions and fatigue. The shooter still drives the gun -- it doesn't shoot itself.

 

[Glen Seekins]

Re: Gas guns in Tac matches - Making any gains?

I will be shooting a gas gun this comp season if everything works out like i think it should. It will shoot a 6mm bullet

 

[Strangedays]

Re: Gas guns in Tac matches - Making any gains?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hellbender</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The accuracy isn't the problem.

The long trigger lock time (2 ms for bolt vs 10+ ms for gas) dictates the shooter properly "follow through" 5 times longer for a gasser.

The "triple recoil" effect adds to the problems.

They are very tough to drive as well as a bolt gun.

The shooter can't make the common mistakes which a bolt gun forgives. They are very frustrating and challenging, which is why I shoot one most of the time.

Also, most of the long range tactical comps are designed around the bolt gun, ie, see who can hit the 1/4" dot at 100 yards 5 times in a row in 2 minutes, etc.

It's a tool in the toolbox, if I was in-theater, I'd want one.

But, as most of the competition layouts are designed around the bolt gun, a gas gunner will almost always be at a disadvantage.

If the comps were written to favor the gasser, things may be different. </div></div>
Have you ever even shot at a comp? I see a shooter who knows how to shoot can win with a gas gun or bolt. I can shoot a 1/4 inch dot at 100 meters under time with my gas gun faster than my bolt.
If you can shoot you can shoot both types good if you can't there is no gun in the world that will make you a better shot so go buy lots of ammo and start shooting whatever you can.

 

[Hellbender]

Re: Gas guns in Tac matches - Making any gains?

strangedays....

Yes, I've shot at a comp or two....Many years of NRA Action pistol, IPSC and 3 gun stuff, Bianchi Cup, etc. I just started the long range stuff about 2 years ago, since then, I've only shot in one "big" (over 80 shooters) tactical comp (and I won it with my bolt gun), but shoot monthly at our local club competition out to 800 yards, we usually have about 25 shooters there.

For me, and I have 15+ AR's, a bolt gun is 3x easier to shoot well in these comps, but still, I try.

I just shot my new AR 6mmSuper LR at the TacPro Sniper match down in TX a couple of weekends ago, and came in 11th out of 18 shooters, my friend who went with me took 2nd, and he's a little better than me with a bolt gun, but we're close.

I probably would have been 4th or 5th at that match with my bolt gun.

I'm not trying to blame the gun, it's a training issue with me. I need about 5000 more rounds down the gun and 20,000 dry fires to get where I am with the bolt gun.....(I hope!)

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Gas guns in Tac matches - Making any gains?

i remember a nationally ranked published shooter once saying he won a national title with a gasser.........but he won't do it again.

 

[Glen Seekins]

Re: Gas guns in Tac matches - Making any gains?

Its no doubt a bolt rifle is far more forgiving. I will have both and decide what to shoot after seeing the COF

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Gas guns in Tac matches - Making any gains?

It's 100% shooter dependent, if you can't win the competition with a bolt gun there is no way you'll win it with a gasser.

That said, years ago, Ssgt Kay was doing well winning comps with a GAP 260 gasser, as well I believe GAP also had a soldier win the competition being crowed about today, with a similar gas gun, 4 or more years ago. So it can be done, but is shooter dependent.

Every match we have 1 or 2 competitors show up with a gasser, and some do better than others, it's really as sinister said, striking the proper balance between COF and tool... you also have to practice in a slightly different manner as it requires a different approach to each stage. As an example, some stages we require the shooter to clear the magazine from the rifle before moving, so you can count on losing a run at every station, so the weapons manipulation have to fast and efficient. Tactical competitions are not just about shooting, its about moving and thinking your way through a problem you weren't brief on prior too starting.

Jim from NJ was shooting a GAP 260 AR10 as far back as 2001 during all the early ASC matches, he did very well also. So it can be done, you just have to know what you are doing.

It's the Indian not the Bow...