Gas vs. Diesel

[Sendero_Man]

have a 2007 Cummins, been driving dodge diesels for years... This 6.7 is a piece of junk. 18 trips thus far for warranty work. 8 times new EGR valve, 4 new O2 sensors, new turbo, new injectors, new injector pump... only 53400 miles on the truck.

Sick of it.

Thinking Chevy 6.0L gas or new 2011 Dodge Cummins. Anyone with experience owning and towing with these trucks ?? Tow horse trailer, 20' tool trailer and 5th wheel camper.

thanks Scott

 

[Hink]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

A coworker of mine has an '06 Ram 2500 and has had nothing but problems with it. Soured me for Cummins for now.

I've got an '06 Chevy with the 5.3, no work at all other than brakes, oil, and gas. Plenty of power, and good mileage. 6.0 has more power, but less mileage.

I took a 2004 Penske truck with 6k miles and the 6.0L motor from Maryland to Texas -- only issue with the truck was wondering why everybody on I-40 in Oklahoma was driving so slow. I was driving 85 and didn't realize....

 

[Cinch]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

Too bad Chevy quit making the 8.1. That sumbitch would run!

 

[brutus1776]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

im an auto tech, but dont fool around that much with diesels... that being said...
i wouldnt buy another gas tow rig again for anything! the 6.0 chevy is a gas hog, especially when towing.

sounds like the cummins are pretty crappy.
im more or less a chevy guy from a chevy family but currently have an older F250 with gas motor w/ 5th wheel. the fords are much harder to work on than chevy or dodge. the power stroke fords seem pretty bullet proof. can be a pain to work on in same cases though.

that being said... i saw an interesting bumper sticker today:
'id rather be cummin than power strokin'

 

[pyplynr]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

the 06 cummins was the last of "the good ones" the tried and true 5.9 was the best engine. imo

 

[usmcMT]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pyplynr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the 06 cummins was the last of "the good ones" the tried and true 5.9 was the best engine. imo </div></div>x1.. Had an 04 that was bought new. 5.9 beats 6.7 for fuel economy unless you void the FW and take the EGR BS off.

 

[ridgeback23]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

my 08 f250 diesel sucks ass!i'm hearing good things about the new diesel engine in the 2011's though!

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

Any thoughts or viability towards the Freightliner Sport Chassis, or the like? Just throwing it out there, considering what all you're towing.

 

[usmcMT]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

Sean. What engine are you looking at. DD13?

 

[goose316]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

Not to start a war....but running a GMC crew cab 4x4 with no issues. The duramax has been dependable.

 

[idahoshooter]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

We run the duramax, and a couple older 5.9's. I am a chevy/gmc guy but you wont like the 6.0 coming from a cummins of any sort. Test drive a duramax or borrow a buddies if you can. I am not huge on auto trannies but the allison is very slick.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

Just looking at the first one, they list these two:
* CUMMINS ISC-330 8.3L 330 HP@2000 RPM; 2200 GOV, 1000 LB/FT @ 1400 RPM
* Optional: MBE4000 12.8L 450 HP @ 1900 RPM/ 1650 LBFT @ 1100 RPM

I hadn't looked at these since about '96 or '97, and I thought they came with an Cat engine. I be wrong, I guess. They do offer the Detroit Diesel, but don't know if you want to go that big. Just trying to help.

 

[Kells81]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sendero_man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">have a 2007 Cummins, been driving dodge diesels for years... This 6.7 is a piece of junk. 18 trips thus far for warranty work. 8 times new EGR valve, 4 new O2 sensors, new turbo, new injectors, new injector pump... only 53400 miles on the truck.

Sick of it.

Thinking Chevy 6.0L gas or new 2011 Dodge Cummins. Anyone with experience owning and towing with these trucks ?? Tow horse trailer, 20' tool trailer and 5th wheel camper.

thanks Scott </div></div>

My sister has the same truck. She had it in the shop 3 times within 1500 miles and it has about the same mileage as yours. Supposedly if you take the factory exuast off and put a decent system back onto it the problems will go away. Or the reports are Dodge has the worms worked out of the system and the newer ones are good to go. Ford is starting to use that exuast either last year or this year so hopefully they took notes from dodge and got it right the first time. Not real sure on Chevy though. I had an '05 for a work truck that seemed good to go until I ran down the battery. Had to have it towed to the dealer to get that fixed but I am sure it was either a fluke or fixed now.

We are Dodge peeps in General around the farming part of my family.

2005 Dodge 3500 225k miles and still GTG
1996 dodge with over 350k miles on it and it still runs and drives. the truck is damn near worn out though.
2010 Dodge 3500 Fresh off the lot last friday. We'll see how that goes.
2007 Dodge 3500 Particulate filter is always clogged up or something else was wrong with it. Trade for 2010
2008 dodge 1500 Hemi. 30k miles. Truck has some Phantom Electrical problems, wouldnt be supprised if it burns to the ground since the dealer doesnt have a clue.

 

[usmcMT]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

Sean. Those junk MBE no longer exist. The 8.3 is/has been the PACCAR engine. DPF's are gone. Now we have urea engines...Refined horse piss injected into the exhaust system. You think I'm joking, I'm not. I work on this shit for a living.

 

[lanwickum]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

If you get a more current diesel with SCR type exhaust treatment they are much better. Any thing that burns fuel in the exhaust to clean the soot trap is a POS. Chevy, Ford, Dodge, all junk with that type of exhuast after treatment. SCR is the type that has a seperate tank for the addative. Or get a 2004-2005 or older.

 

[upjeeper]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

I've got a 5.9L Cummins in my 2004 Dodge diesel. I love it, but i don't tow so it's being sold this coming week. I did a lot of research and in my opinion the 5.9L Cummins was the best hands down.

 

[usmcMT]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: montana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you get a more current diesel with SCR type exhaust treatment they are much better. Any thing that burns fuel in the exhaust to clean the soot trap is a POS. Chevy, Ford, Dodge, all junk with that type of exhuast after treatment. SCR is the type that has a seperate tank for the addative. Or get a 2004-2005 or older. </div></div>SCR, is that the same as urea for the automotive side..

 

[brian64x]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

We have run the ford diesels for years, pulling loads of cattle and grain.... have had good luck in the past but our next super duty will have the 6.2L gas v-8. With the cost of diesel being higher, fuel mileage sucks, and repair bills a way higher on the diesel engines...not to mention they are a $6000 dollar option when you buy a new truck... we are done with em!!! The current one we have now only has 80K on it and we have put $10K in it the last 10K miles....yep, were gonna try something different.
I do agree the old 5.9L cummins are hard to beat. Just wish the rest of the dodge truck would hold up to our abuse. Now if you took an old 5.9, put a allison behind it, and installed into a ford chasis then you would have something!!

 

[Sendero_Man]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brian W</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I do agree the old 5.9L cummins are hard to beat. Just wish the rest of the dodge truck would hold up to our abuse. Now if you took an old 5.9, put a allison behind it, and installed into a ford chasis then you would have something!! </div></div>

Now you are talking !!

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usmcMT</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: montana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you get a more current diesel with SCR type exhaust treatment they are much better. Any thing that burns fuel in the exhaust to clean the soot trap is a POS. Chevy, Ford, Dodge, all junk with that type of exhaust after treatment. SCR is the type that has a separate tank for the additive. Or get a 2004-2005 or older. </div></div>SCR, is that the same as urea for the automotive side..</div></div>
Yes it is. Big +1 Montana
You should steer clear of the 2011's. Until the problems are worked out. Stick with the non-SCR's.
You will be fine with the LMM Duramax.
You have a real good warranty even if you buy used. Great power, good mileage, etc.

No matter what you get be aware that most manufacturers now have the ability (I do) to know the last 10 software updates that have been programmed. What does that mean? If you put on any power programmers or programming most good techs will know and can void your warranty. I have only done this one time in the years I have been doing it. Guy wanted a new engine under warranty on a HUGE boosted system and sent the crankshaft through the girdle.

Just use common sense and perform maintenance religiously.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

I just put the 4th engine in my '03 ford 450 powerstroke(work truck). The 6.0's are shit. That said my dad has the same one and has had very few problems. when I replaced the engine in mine I rebuilt the trans too, there were just a few kinda burnt clutches there but I was otherwise impressed for the 200,000miles on it. I wish I could get a ford or a chevy with a 5.9 cummins in it

Those things are great.
My work just bought a 2010 dodge 5500 with that new cummins, its a nice enough truck, and runs great, but we'll see how that works out. (haha, refined horse piss

)
We have several Duramaxes at work too, great running trucks, I just have to keep changing injectors everytime the fuel balancing shows up out of wack. but 250,000 miles of hard use in 3 years with out any major repair(other than the injectors) is pretty good.

 

[7.62willdo]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

FOR GODS SAKE DON"T BUY A 2010 ford superduty diesel i have one and it spends more time in the shop then my driveway and the fuel economy sux's (10.5mpg) NOT TOWING ANYTHING!

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just put the 4th engine in my '03 ford 450 powerstroke(work truck). The 6.0's are shit. That said my dad has the same one and has had very few problems. when I replaced the engine in mine I rebuilt the trans too, there were just a few kinda burnt clutches there but I was otherwise impressed for the 200,000miles on it. I wish I could get a ford or a chevy with a 5.9 cummins in it

Those things are great.
My work just bought a 2010 dodge 5500 with that new cummins, its a nice enough truck, and runs great, but we'll see how that works out. (haha, refined horse piss

)
We have several Duramaxes at work too, great running trucks, I just have to keep changing injectors everytime the fuel balancing shows up out of wack. but 250,000 miles of hard use in 3 years with out any major repair(other than the injectors) is pretty good.</div></div>
The Duramax injectors got a whole lot easier to change since they were moved outside of the valve cover. Injectors are 7 year 200,000 miles and 10 years 200,000 on glow plugs.

 

[BPaige]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

+1 to the 5.9 rocking....97 with 260k miles had to replace a tired tranny at 252k and that's it aside from regular maintnance. Starts everyday -40' not a problem. I will admit it could use a rebuild but it still gets 18 mpg.

I also have an 07 6.7 with 31k now and it has beed in the shop 3 times now. All started when I got the j34 recall done and I have had nothing but problems with the dpf since. I had to have the the dpf replaced once so far (warrenty) two egr valves, and now starting to get frequent "exhaust filter 80%" trouble codes, so I bet ill have another free dpf before too long.

With that being said I still get 17.5 mpg @ 65-70 mph. That's with a 6" lift, 35" tires and a cow catcher bumper. When the dpf filled and finally cracked my gf was 50 miles away with 40 sheets of 1/2" sheetrock in the back and she pulled 19.5 mpg on the way home!

My buddy has an 08' with all the smog removed and running on an h&s programmer "economy" tune regularly gets 22-24 mpg.

The next truck will be getting a 12valve/nv5600 regardless of the body. I'm half tempted to yank this 6.7 and make my megacab the way they shoulda! I'm cummins through and through, inline 6, no glowplugs to replace, etc. Etc.

 

[Sendero_Man]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

Anyone run the new 6.2 Ford ? Heard mixed reviews on it as well ??

 

[Rthur]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

I have had a gmc duramax since 2004, it has 120,000 on it so far i had to replace the injectors and tires. The injectors were the result of bad fuel. It has been from Canada to Florida, Texas hill country, mountains of Colorado,New Mexico and everywhere in between. It has hauled cars, 6 4 wheelers plus 8 mens hunting gear, mini truck and all camping equipment you can imagine. It has a 50 horse chip and will get 11 mpg with a 24x8 hualmark from home to NM and back. I guess you can say I have had good luck with it and am happy. Rthur btw I also use it for work on the farm daily
I almost forgot it gets over 20mpg on the highway!

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just put the 4th engine in my '03 ford 450 powerstroke(work truck). The 6.0's are shit. That said my dad has the same one and has had very few problems. when I replaced the engine in mine I rebuilt the trans too, there were just a few kinda burnt clutches there but I was otherwise impressed for the 200,000miles on it. I wish I could get a ford or a chevy with a 5.9 cummins in it

Those things are great.
My work just bought a 2010 dodge 5500 with that new cummins, its a nice enough truck, and runs great, but we'll see how that works out. (haha, refined horse piss

)
We have several Duramaxes at work too, great running trucks, I just have to keep changing injectors everytime the fuel balancing shows up out of wack. but 250,000 miles of hard use in 3 years with out any major repair(other than the injectors) is pretty good.</div></div>
The Duramax injectors got a whole lot easier to change since they were moved outside of the valve cover. Injectors are 7 year 200,000 miles and 10 years 200,000 on glow plugs. </div></div>

Thank god they did that! we have several of both styles, and yes they sure are easier onm the newer ones.

 

[gordos1]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7.62willdo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FOR GODS SAKE DON"T BUY A 2010 ford superduty diesel i have one and it spends more time in the shop then my driveway and the fuel economy sux's (10.5mpg) NOT TOWING ANYTHING! </div></div>

I have a 2010 f250 and it has been a great truck.
I get 13mpg around town and have no issues with the truck.
I would recommend a ford to anyone wanting a smooth running powerful truck.

 

[Trocar]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

I bought a used 2008 Chevy 2500 4X4 Duramax/Allison with 40,000 miles last month. It gets 24 mpg on the highway. Yesterday it got 15.5 mpg pulling a car hauler with a pallet of bricks and it acted like it didn't know it was pulling anything. I have not had to pull my tractor, yet. I have zero complaints so far. BTW, The last truck I bought was a 1996 Dodge 1500 that only gets about 12 mpg, and I'll keep it for a beater around the camp.

 

[Sendero_Man]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sendero_man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone run the new 6.2 Ford ? Heard mixed reviews on it as well ?? </div></div> ??

 

[R.Walters]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

Whatever you do don't get a ford 6 liter powerstroke I had 63k miles on mine with nothing but problems. Imdriving a 7.3 pstroke until I find the all elusive 4 door long bed 6speed 5.9 with low miles

 

[dbateman]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

egr is shit ... Dam hippies are wrecking the world

 

[ridgeback23]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sendero_man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sendero_man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone run the new 6.2 Ford ? Heard mixed reviews on it as well ?? </div></div> ?? </div></div>

the new ford is a 6.7,it has had good reviews so far.

 

[Smokin99]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

My brother and I both have 2010 Dodge Diesels and they are very good trucks, no regrets. Delete all the restrictive BS off of them and they really come to life with a HS programer with new exhaust and EGR delete, void warranty but as long as you know a dealer no big deal. Ive had zero problems and now have 13000 miles on mine. With deletes best mpg Ive got was 21mpg.
Pulled a tractor from NE threw Buffalo WY to Great Falls never have to down shift on hills running 75mph (I have a manual) this truck pulls.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

scott get a used 04-06 dodge with 6 spd manual and it will last forever and pull like a mother trucker. i have 03 dodge diesel with 115k and haven't had a single issue. my dad has had 5 dodge diesels with no issues other than needing new at every 150k he literally is pulling horse trailer 75%+ of the time. but we haven't tried any of the newer engines his truck is 06 mega cab with 5.9l

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

If you want a diesel ya might as well go for the good stuff

 

[rifleman0321]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brian W</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do agree the old 5.9L cummins are hard to beat. Just wish the rest of the dodge truck would hold up to our abuse. Now if you took an old 5.9, put a allison behind it, and installed into a ford chasis then you would have something!! </div></div>

I've been saying that for years. Had an '05 Dodge Cummins and still miss that truck. Will probably start looking for another soon. Of course, if they built a truck like we want, it would cost $75,000 because they would own the market.

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

Chevy/GMC with Duramax and Allison combo. They are smooooth!

 

[Sendero_Man]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

found a 2009 Duramax with 13,000 on it. Looking at it hard.

thanks for all the input !

 

[LILBUCK]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

Plus one for the Duramax especially the LBZ

 

[chawk]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

The EPA ruined diesel engines... The modern diesels are less reliable and burn more fuel, all in the name of a cleaner tailpipe. I've had a bunch of Dodge Cummins trucks over the years. I've ran them pretty hard and they have been good trucks. The only one I still have is an 01 w/ 265k miles and it has been a fantastic truck.

That said, I do not look forward to the day I have to get a new truck. If I HAD to get a newer diesel, it would probably be an 06 duramax.

 

[wdebo]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

You will like the Duramax. I have owned all the big three. I like the Duramax the best. I might try the new ford next it is a good looking truck.

 

[Csf45]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

I've heard the '07 and later cummins were having problems, but damn i didn't know they were that bad, thats a lot of warranty work. Everyone I know with the 5.9s love them with zero issues. I know a few people with duramaxs too and they seem to like them. the duramax seems to be a lot quieter too.

 

[Cinch]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

Just buy a new Dodge and a new Chevy and let us all know what you think is better.

 

[TRON]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

01 durmax great truck
03 durmax great truck fastest truck i've ever owned
05 durmax new injectors and head gaskets at 104,00 dealer covered me

08 durmax Great truck

getting ready to by my forman a new 2011 GMC durmax

08 F350 Junk my personnel truck been in shop more than all the GM's

 

[HOGGHEAD]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

I worked in sales all my life. I am not qualified to give detailed opinions on diesel engines. I just sold them, never worked on them. Hoewever one thing I know for sure. I sold a few different trucks that had new diesel engines for the year we were in. Every single "new" engine I sold had bugs. And it took a year or two to work out those bugs. So my advice is to avoid any new engine available.

I will give you an example. When the Ford "turbo diesels" first came out they had a restrictive exhaust system. I sold the first one in WV to a fellow who pulled horse trailers. He went on a long trip and his wife was wearing flip flops. The exhaust was so restricted that it actually put black burn marks on the carpeting and actually melted a little part of her flip flop. Bugs need to be worked out in diesels. Tom.

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbateman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">egr is shit ... Dam hippies are wrecking the world</div></div>
If this was 15 years ago I would agree. However EGR is so well regulated into the engine and the tailpipe gases that enter the engine are so well burned that the EGR effectively will reduce the actual displacement. It is complicated but what it actually does is INCREASE mileage. Yup you heard me right. A properly activated electronic EGR will increase mileage and decrease emissions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chawk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The EPA ruined diesel engines... The modern diesels are less reliable and burn more fuel, all in the name of a cleaner tailpipe. I've had a bunch of Dodge Cummins trucks over the years. I've ran them pretty hard and they have been good trucks. The only one I still have is an 01 w/ 265k miles and it has been a fantastic truck.

That said, I do not look forward to the day I have to get a new truck. If I HAD to get a newer diesel, it would probably be an 06 duramax. </div></div>
Have to disagree with you chawk. Modern diesels are reliable, quieter, more power per cubic inch, MUCH less polluting. The only drawback is the very new particulate filter that is in the exhaust. Then I will agree that in that particular case the EPA way overstepped its bounds and it uses a lot of fuel to "burn off" the soot on the filter. Also see below.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TRON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">01 Duramax great truck
03 Duramax great truck fastest truck i've ever owned
05 durmax new injectors and head gaskets at 104,00 dealer covered me

08 durmax Great truck

getting ready to by my forman a new 2011 GMC durmax

08 F350 Junk my personnel truck been in shop more than all the GM's
</div></div>
I would seriously hold off on the 2011 or try and get a good deal on the 2010. It is going to have some growing pains with the urea injection. Don't say I didn't warn you. That is going to be for ALL new 2011's (Ford, Dodge, Chev, Etc.)

 

[Sendero_Man]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

is the late 09 Duramax a good runner ? no urea, just the part. filter correct ?

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sendero_man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">is the late 09 Duramax a good runner ? no urea, just the part. filter correct ?</div></div>
In my professional opinion, working on them nearly daily for GM they are the best year you can get.

 

[MikeeBooshay]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

Got an 07 F350 with 152k miles on it. Great truck, last in the line of F250/350 since 1992. I usually buy a new truck every other year, BUT SKIPPED THE 2008-2010 - you should too. That pretty much goes for ALL the manufacturers. They were forced by the EPA to implement technology that was not ready.

The advice about waiting on the 2011 models is good too. Almost always the first few months of introduction has a few pains, doesn't matter who made it. I'd like a new truck now but am gonna sit out a few months and see.

And it will likely be another F250 don't really NEED the F350 capacity at the moment. Having said that I will not be trading the 350 since I don't want to swap all the gooseneck and fuel tank stuff around. Keep it for a ranch truck I guess.