I've been considering purchasing a suppressor for my .308. I've looked at a bunch of different companies and it seems like gemtech is probably one of the best choices. Maybe this is a stupid question, but why is the surefire suppressors twice the price of the gemtech hvt? Are they really that much better? or are you most just paying for the name?
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Suppressors gemtech vs surefire?
- Thread starter beermj1
- Start date
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
Surefire makes a great product but with that you also pay with the name. Gemtech makes a great product also. The QD surefire won;t change your POI as bad as the Gemtech so unless you are going to be taking it off and on all the time then I would go with gemtech.
Surefire makes a great product but with that you also pay with the name. Gemtech makes a great product also. The QD surefire won;t change your POI as bad as the Gemtech so unless you are going to be taking it off and on all the time then I would go with gemtech.
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
Do a search for Shark suppressors, 737Shark is a member here, my Shark has been on three different rifles, with zero POI, I know for a fact it's quieter than the HVT, and cheaper than the Surefire, also there are adapter for different threads, I can screw my Shark on AR15s, and have tried it on .22lr pistols, and there serviceable, take it apart and clean it if you so desire, no stamped cheap shit, everything is machined on CNC machines, and hand put together by one person, David(737Shark).
Do a search for Shark suppressors, 737Shark is a member here, my Shark has been on three different rifles, with zero POI, I know for a fact it's quieter than the HVT, and cheaper than the Surefire, also there are adapter for different threads, I can screw my Shark on AR15s, and have tried it on .22lr pistols, and there serviceable, take it apart and clean it if you so desire, no stamped cheap shit, everything is machined on CNC machines, and hand put together by one person, David(737Shark).
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
Make mine a surefire. They do cost more, but mine delivers when it comes to poi shifts, and durability. I have mine on a 308 bolt gun, SR-25, and my REPR, as well as my Colt AR, and my custom SPR. One can for everything for now. JPG
I'll have to get a few shots of them being used.
Make mine a surefire. They do cost more, but mine delivers when it comes to poi shifts, and durability. I have mine on a 308 bolt gun, SR-25, and my REPR, as well as my Colt AR, and my custom SPR. One can for everything for now. JPG
I'll have to get a few shots of them being used.
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
Is "using" them even legal up there in WA? I was thinking that you could own them but not use them(yeah I know it's stupid). I could be wrong though....
Is "using" them even legal up there in WA? I was thinking that you could own them but not use them(yeah I know it's stupid). I could be wrong though....
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
Love the HVT-QD, great price and I use it on my 308 bolt gun and 5.56 Colt 6520
Love the HVT-QD, great price and I use it on my 308 bolt gun and 5.56 Colt 6520
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
They are both similar performers. Unless you need lighter weight, I see no reason to spend more on the Surefire. They cannot guarantee zero POI shift; every rifle is unique.
Any reason you're not considering AAC as well? Their 762-SD is a fine performer in this category.
They are both similar performers. Unless you need lighter weight, I see no reason to spend more on the Surefire. They cannot guarantee zero POI shift; every rifle is unique.
Any reason you're not considering AAC as well? Their 762-SD is a fine performer in this category.
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
Instead of the HVT you could look at a titanium SandStorm. Very quiet and low weight.
Instead of the HVT you could look at a titanium SandStorm. Very quiet and low weight.
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
No, there's no reason why i'm not looking at any particular suppressor. I'm open to any suggestions it just seemed like a lot of people suggested gemtech. That and they seem to be reasonably priced. I don't have the money to buy one quite yet, maybe once i get back from deployment. I was just doing some research.
No, there's no reason why i'm not looking at any particular suppressor. I'm open to any suggestions it just seemed like a lot of people suggested gemtech. That and they seem to be reasonably priced. I don't have the money to buy one quite yet, maybe once i get back from deployment. I was just doing some research.
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
I would very strongly recommend that you visit www.silencerresearch.com and sign up for his reviews. He has many current .308 suppressors metered and is doing more soon. $30 subscription could save you a $1200 mistake.
I would very strongly recommend that you visit www.silencerresearch.com and sign up for his reviews. He has many current .308 suppressors metered and is doing more soon. $30 subscription could save you a $1200 mistake.
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
I have the gemtech HVT and there is no POI change w/o the suppressor. http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showpic&id=4122
I have the gemtech HVT and there is no POI change w/o the suppressor. http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showpic&id=4122
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
Not comparable.
Is this the Gemtech QD "Bi-lock"? Have you ever seen anything hold up and stay balanced with "bi (2 points)"...no, one needs a "tri" three lug lock up (HK?). Two table legs....three table legs. Springs? Hot springs on the end of a barrel?
IMO, Surefire's mounting system is better. At least its a long mount. But I am not a QD fan, not at all. Want accuracy and the LEAST POI? You are threading on.
Besides, its about QUIET. Have you heard those cans? DO NOT buy a 100% titanium can (Sandstorm) until you have heard it.
Not comparable.
Is this the Gemtech QD "Bi-lock"? Have you ever seen anything hold up and stay balanced with "bi (2 points)"...no, one needs a "tri" three lug lock up (HK?). Two table legs....three table legs. Springs? Hot springs on the end of a barrel?
IMO, Surefire's mounting system is better. At least its a long mount. But I am not a QD fan, not at all. Want accuracy and the LEAST POI? You are threading on.
Besides, its about QUIET. Have you heard those cans? DO NOT buy a 100% titanium can (Sandstorm) until you have heard it.
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Besides, its about QUIET. Have you heard those cans? DO NOT buy a 100% titanium can (Sandstorm) until you have heard it.
</div></div>
RT51, have you heard a Sandstorm?
I haven't, but know a few guys who have several other cans including the Sandstorm and they speak very highly of it, so highly that I was considering ordering one. I'm interested to hear your take on it if you've actually heard it or are you simply making an observation to not buy any suppressor without seeing/hearing it in use first?
Jason
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Besides, its about QUIET. Have you heard those cans? DO NOT buy a 100% titanium can (Sandstorm) until you have heard it.
</div></div>
RT51, have you heard a Sandstorm?
I haven't, but know a few guys who have several other cans including the Sandstorm and they speak very highly of it, so highly that I was considering ordering one. I'm interested to hear your take on it if you've actually heard it or are you simply making an observation to not buy any suppressor without seeing/hearing it in use first?
Jason
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Besides, its about QUIET. Have you heard those cans? DO NOT buy a 100% titanium can (Sandstorm) until you have heard it.
</div></div>
RT51, have you heard a Sandstorm?
I haven't, but know a few guys who have several other cans including the Sandstorm and they speak very highly of it, so highly that I was considering ordering one. I'm interested to hear your take on it if you've actually heard it or are you simply making an observation to not buy any suppressor without seeing/hearing it in use first?
Jason </div></div>
I own an HVT, along w/ 2 other Gemtech cans and a Ti TBAC .223P. The Ti .223P is quieter than the M402. Of course it has more volume and closer tolerances but it's also larger and lighter.
I was able to compare the Sandstorm to the HVT last year. My class III dealer is also my diving buddy and he let me know when he got the new Sandstorm in. He pushes Gemtech pretty hard. Anyhow the Sandstorm is quieter than my HVT, it's also weighs WAY less than the HVT but fits in the same size package. All of my cans are thread on.
I plan on getting another .30 cal can this year. It'll be a TBAC .30P1 or a Sandstorm. I don't know anyone who has a Surefire can, but my first Class III dealer in Casper sells them(I think?).
As far as customer service goes, it would be hard to beat gemtech.....http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=103172&Number=1128252#Post1128252
I'm also waiting to hear your response RT51...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Besides, its about QUIET. Have you heard those cans? DO NOT buy a 100% titanium can (Sandstorm) until you have heard it.
</div></div>
RT51, have you heard a Sandstorm?
I haven't, but know a few guys who have several other cans including the Sandstorm and they speak very highly of it, so highly that I was considering ordering one. I'm interested to hear your take on it if you've actually heard it or are you simply making an observation to not buy any suppressor without seeing/hearing it in use first?
Jason </div></div>
I own an HVT, along w/ 2 other Gemtech cans and a Ti TBAC .223P. The Ti .223P is quieter than the M402. Of course it has more volume and closer tolerances but it's also larger and lighter.
I was able to compare the Sandstorm to the HVT last year. My class III dealer is also my diving buddy and he let me know when he got the new Sandstorm in. He pushes Gemtech pretty hard. Anyhow the Sandstorm is quieter than my HVT, it's also weighs WAY less than the HVT but fits in the same size package. All of my cans are thread on.
I plan on getting another .30 cal can this year. It'll be a TBAC .30P1 or a Sandstorm. I don't know anyone who has a Surefire can, but my first Class III dealer in Casper sells them(I think?).
As far as customer service goes, it would be hard to beat gemtech.....http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=103172&Number=1128252#Post1128252
I'm also waiting to hear your response RT51...
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
I've got a Sandstorm, HVT and Surefire. All produce some POI change from the unsuppressed rifle. It does happen that a rifle will produce no discernable shift, but that is fairly rare. If the shift is consistent and repeatable, one simply dials it on, no problem. I do often wonder exactly why one shoots WITHOUT the can once you have it, but I guess people have their reasons.
All three work very well, making the shot hearing safe and compleatly masking the location of the shot to downrange observers. I rather doubt you'd be dissapointed with any of them.
The HVT mount is the most simple and reliable OD system. Despite RT51's comments, two lugs work fine. Your rifle bolt probably has two lugs, does the lack of "balance" cause an issue? If you get the spring hot enough to lose temper, you'll need a new barrel and while that's being replaced you can order a replacement spring. I run this on a .308 and 6.5 Grendel, so the QD is handy.
The downside to ANY QD mount is some gas leakage at the mount, which can result in particles on the objective lens of the scope. You'll need to watch for that and clean the lens properly to avoid scratching the coating.
The Surefire can and mount system is lighter, but the locking spring is prone to popping off the stud and I've had two that had issues with enough engagement with the ratchet teeth. One was returned for a new locking spring and the other problem was addressed with a new muzzle break. It's my goto system for a .338 based on cost and weight. I like the AAC Titan, but the cost!
The Sandstorm is the quietest of the bunch, and the lightest. I don't mind at all the lack of a QD system, the only time it comes off is when I clean. Thread mount is slow, but reliable. It's my main .308 unit.
I've got a Sandstorm, HVT and Surefire. All produce some POI change from the unsuppressed rifle. It does happen that a rifle will produce no discernable shift, but that is fairly rare. If the shift is consistent and repeatable, one simply dials it on, no problem. I do often wonder exactly why one shoots WITHOUT the can once you have it, but I guess people have their reasons.
All three work very well, making the shot hearing safe and compleatly masking the location of the shot to downrange observers. I rather doubt you'd be dissapointed with any of them.
The HVT mount is the most simple and reliable OD system. Despite RT51's comments, two lugs work fine. Your rifle bolt probably has two lugs, does the lack of "balance" cause an issue? If you get the spring hot enough to lose temper, you'll need a new barrel and while that's being replaced you can order a replacement spring. I run this on a .308 and 6.5 Grendel, so the QD is handy.
The downside to ANY QD mount is some gas leakage at the mount, which can result in particles on the objective lens of the scope. You'll need to watch for that and clean the lens properly to avoid scratching the coating.
The Surefire can and mount system is lighter, but the locking spring is prone to popping off the stud and I've had two that had issues with enough engagement with the ratchet teeth. One was returned for a new locking spring and the other problem was addressed with a new muzzle break. It's my goto system for a .338 based on cost and weight. I like the AAC Titan, but the cost!
The Sandstorm is the quietest of the bunch, and the lightest. I don't mind at all the lack of a QD system, the only time it comes off is when I clean. Thread mount is slow, but reliable. It's my main .308 unit.
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Saito</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Anyhow the Sandstorm is quieter than my HVT, it's also weighs WAY less than the HVT but fits in the same size package. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got a Sandstorm, HVT and Surefire.
The Sandstorm is the quietest of the bunch, and the lightest. </div></div>
I've heard comments like this time and time again, that's why I was considering the Sandstorm w/o hearing it first. Guys with several to compare it to all saying it was light and quiet.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Saito</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Anyhow the Sandstorm is quieter than my HVT, it's also weighs WAY less than the HVT but fits in the same size package. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got a Sandstorm, HVT and Surefire.
The Sandstorm is the quietest of the bunch, and the lightest. </div></div>
I've heard comments like this time and time again, that's why I was considering the Sandstorm w/o hearing it first. Guys with several to compare it to all saying it was light and quiet.
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
I have a Gemtech HVT with the Bi-Lock system. It has a change of POI but it always repeatable so I can change the scope and I am dead on. Gemtech is a great name and they have great customer service. I have called them numerous times with questions and they have always took time to help me out.
I have a Gemtech HVT with the Bi-Lock system. It has a change of POI but it always repeatable so I can change the scope and I am dead on. Gemtech is a great name and they have great customer service. I have called them numerous times with questions and they have always took time to help me out.
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
Let me recommend the AAC 762SD. If all you want to use it on is a .308 bolt gun then look at the AAC cyclops. I have a 762SD and use it on 10 different guns. I love it and am really glad I went that route.
Let me recommend the AAC 762SD. If all you want to use it on is a .308 bolt gun then look at the AAC cyclops. I have a 762SD and use it on 10 different guns. I love it and am really glad I went that route.
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
I think you mean cyclone. the Cyclops is a 50bmg suppressor. I have the HVT but wish I had the AAC cyclone.
I think you mean cyclone. the Cyclops is a 50bmg suppressor. I have the HVT but wish I had the AAC cyclone.
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
If one is going to spend SF kind of money, I would probably wait until AAC releases the 300 SD. It's 300WM rated, 14ozs, monolithic core, not that much longer then a 762SD and is suppose to be the quietest 30 cal can they make.
If one is going to spend SF kind of money, I would probably wait until AAC releases the 300 SD. It's 300WM rated, 14ozs, monolithic core, not that much longer then a 762SD and is suppose to be the quietest 30 cal can they make.
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
Yes, of course I've heard it and those that do know that there is a strong titanium frequency ring to them. Too strong for my taste. That is why I always recommend that before somebody runs out and buy a 100% titanium can (others design the ring out with SS wraps) they should hear the can. Now, I'll go one step further, in a .308 if your have a 26" barrel the Sandstorm will ring less (perhaps not at all), but if you mount a shorter barrel it will. In a 20" barrel, in my opinion, you will not like the results. mm3beer, what is your barrel length? Hunting? 100% titanium makes more sense. Precision LR? I would go with something else.
As to the "thread it" vs "QD" that is also very much a give and take. For the absolute quietest can and least POI shift, you need three things
1. Great baffle design.
2. Tightest possible bore dimensions throughout the whole run, certainly not graduated. When we start to add the requirements of QD most manufacturers move to graduated bore dimensions (tight to less tight) that can allow for the increase fitment issues of QD. That can cause megaphone effect. The tolerances on QD have to take into consideration a lot more than just make it work once when its new and clean.
3. Recognize that a major driver in QD is allowing folks to use the same can on mismatched thread barrels. That is fine, but if the issue is convenience to use a single can over accuracy, again to my mind, thread it. As stated by others, repeatability is the key. I get that out of threads (gauged threads) and take the time to thread uniformly across platforms.
As the bi-loc vs tri-loc, again to my mind we are seeing more and more assemblies go from tri to tri with threads. Heat at the QD is much higher than the barrel. One has blow back pressures, dwell pressure now. CoryT is absolutely right about particulate blow back and, in high volume fire, caking as well. P.S. always add the weight of the QD mount into your full weight stats, you may be surprised.
Gemtech service is very good.
Bacarrat comment opens up a whole new horizon and, again to my mind, is worth paying attention to. Bolt gun in .308, the best, to my mind, can now come under consideration. As such, I would not doubt 427Cobra in the least about his experience with the HVT.
To others, its all good and to an extent, they are right too. You look down the core of the new AAC can and you might see something new to some, very familiar to others.
Yes, of course I've heard it and those that do know that there is a strong titanium frequency ring to them. Too strong for my taste. That is why I always recommend that before somebody runs out and buy a 100% titanium can (others design the ring out with SS wraps) they should hear the can. Now, I'll go one step further, in a .308 if your have a 26" barrel the Sandstorm will ring less (perhaps not at all), but if you mount a shorter barrel it will. In a 20" barrel, in my opinion, you will not like the results. mm3beer, what is your barrel length? Hunting? 100% titanium makes more sense. Precision LR? I would go with something else.
As to the "thread it" vs "QD" that is also very much a give and take. For the absolute quietest can and least POI shift, you need three things
1. Great baffle design.
2. Tightest possible bore dimensions throughout the whole run, certainly not graduated. When we start to add the requirements of QD most manufacturers move to graduated bore dimensions (tight to less tight) that can allow for the increase fitment issues of QD. That can cause megaphone effect. The tolerances on QD have to take into consideration a lot more than just make it work once when its new and clean.
3. Recognize that a major driver in QD is allowing folks to use the same can on mismatched thread barrels. That is fine, but if the issue is convenience to use a single can over accuracy, again to my mind, thread it. As stated by others, repeatability is the key. I get that out of threads (gauged threads) and take the time to thread uniformly across platforms.
As the bi-loc vs tri-loc, again to my mind we are seeing more and more assemblies go from tri to tri with threads. Heat at the QD is much higher than the barrel. One has blow back pressures, dwell pressure now. CoryT is absolutely right about particulate blow back and, in high volume fire, caking as well. P.S. always add the weight of the QD mount into your full weight stats, you may be surprised.
Gemtech service is very good.
Bacarrat comment opens up a whole new horizon and, again to my mind, is worth paying attention to. Bolt gun in .308, the best, to my mind, can now come under consideration. As such, I would not doubt 427Cobra in the least about his experience with the HVT.
To others, its all good and to an extent, they are right too. You look down the core of the new AAC can and you might see something new to some, very familiar to others.
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
guys using the Gem. hvt on the newer models & sandstorm . How is the boost & are they still using the keyway port cut running strait down the bore in the baffle stack on the models ? just curious.
.
guys using the Gem. hvt on the newer models & sandstorm . How is the boost & are they still using the keyway port cut running strait down the bore in the baffle stack on the models ? just curious.
.
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">guys using the Gem. hvt on the newer models & sandstorm . How is the boost & are they still using the keyway port cut running strait down the bore in the baffle stack on the models ? just curious.
. </div></div>
Keyhole baffles are still in there, however they changed the orientation. I'll have to double check (Sandstorm is in the safe), but IIRC you have 180* differences in the baffles through the can. 2 one way, 2 the other, 2 the same as the first, etc.
I've owned the QD HVT and Sandstorm. I've also heard an AWC and AAC can and honestly, they were all pretty close to the same to me. I love the light weight of my Sandstorm and I guess I'm a bit bias when it comes down to it. So yeah, get a Sandstorm and you'll probably be happy.
-X
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">guys using the Gem. hvt on the newer models & sandstorm . How is the boost & are they still using the keyway port cut running strait down the bore in the baffle stack on the models ? just curious.
. </div></div>
Keyhole baffles are still in there, however they changed the orientation. I'll have to double check (Sandstorm is in the safe), but IIRC you have 180* differences in the baffles through the can. 2 one way, 2 the other, 2 the same as the first, etc.
I've owned the QD HVT and Sandstorm. I've also heard an AWC and AAC can and honestly, they were all pretty close to the same to me. I love the light weight of my Sandstorm and I guess I'm a bit bias when it comes down to it. So yeah, get a Sandstorm and you'll probably be happy.
-X
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
Since we're posting pics....
-X
100yds, got it zeroed.
400yds, 6 shots in the group, 7th the wind grabbed (still was just above MOA at 4.442" with the 7th shot).
Yes, it works on .300WM per Gemtech. Sounds good too.
Since we're posting pics....
-X
100yds, got it zeroed.
400yds, 6 shots in the group, 7th the wind grabbed (still was just above MOA at 4.442" with the 7th shot).
Yes, it works on .300WM per Gemtech. Sounds good too.
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Saito</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is "using" them even legal up there in WA? I was thinking that you could own them but not use them(yeah I know it's stupid). I could be wrong though....</div></div>
Saito,
You are correct, but, I might be a LE sales rep, for a class 3 dealer. I shoot next to all kinds of LE/SWAT personel all the time. They have never complained once! JPG
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Saito</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is "using" them even legal up there in WA? I was thinking that you could own them but not use them(yeah I know it's stupid). I could be wrong though....</div></div>
Saito,
You are correct, but, I might be a LE sales rep, for a class 3 dealer. I shoot next to all kinds of LE/SWAT personel all the time. They have never complained once! JPG
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
I have a Rem 700 SPS varmint with a 26" barrel. I'm thinking it's mostly going to be a target rifle seeing as how with the aics stock it weighs close to 15 lbs. The more i read, the more i'm leaning toward just threading it on, i don't really have any plans on switching it between rifles, and i have no real need for a quick disconnect.
PS. i really appreciate all the info!
I have a Rem 700 SPS varmint with a 26" barrel. I'm thinking it's mostly going to be a target rifle seeing as how with the aics stock it weighs close to 15 lbs. The more i read, the more i'm leaning toward just threading it on, i don't really have any plans on switching it between rifles, and i have no real need for a quick disconnect.
PS. i really appreciate all the info!
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Besides, its about QUIET. Have you heard those cans? DO NOT buy a 100% titanium can (Sandstorm) until you have heard it. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, of course I've heard it and those that do know that there is a strong titanium frequency ring to them. Too strong for my taste. That is why I always recommend that before somebody runs out and buy a 100% titanium can (others design the ring out with SS wraps) they should hear the can. Now, I'll go one step further, in a .308 if your have a 26" barrel the Sandstorm will ring less (perhaps not at all), but if you mount a shorter barrel it will. In a 20" barrel, in my opinion, you will not like the results. mm3beer, what is your barrel length? Hunting? 100% titanium makes more sense. Precision LR? I would go with something else.
</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Where pray tell do you come up with this shit?</span>
I don't have the time now to go through your nonsense and cite your bogus claims individually. When I find the time in a day or two I will.
The Sandstorm has no perceived ring on a 16" .308 700. It has no perceived ring on a 10.5" 6.8 SPC II AR15. In fact the few I've got for testing all fail to ring on any of the platforms we've put them on. I've decided you're making this nonsense up, <span style="text-decoration: underline">just like last time</span>. Then you can turn it into an advertisement for AWC and how they wrap ti in stainless and since Gemtech doesn't it's inferior. The fact remains as others have already said, the Sandstorm doesn't have any ring to it. It's the single most impressive thing in Gemtech's lineup. I'd even go so far as to say it might be best in show for what it is.
In closing, when I start debunking your nonsense I'm going to start with this Gem:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tightest possible bore dimensions throughout the whole run</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Besides, its about QUIET. Have you heard those cans? DO NOT buy a 100% titanium can (Sandstorm) until you have heard it. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, of course I've heard it and those that do know that there is a strong titanium frequency ring to them. Too strong for my taste. That is why I always recommend that before somebody runs out and buy a 100% titanium can (others design the ring out with SS wraps) they should hear the can. Now, I'll go one step further, in a .308 if your have a 26" barrel the Sandstorm will ring less (perhaps not at all), but if you mount a shorter barrel it will. In a 20" barrel, in my opinion, you will not like the results. mm3beer, what is your barrel length? Hunting? 100% titanium makes more sense. Precision LR? I would go with something else.
</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Where pray tell do you come up with this shit?</span>
I don't have the time now to go through your nonsense and cite your bogus claims individually. When I find the time in a day or two I will.
The Sandstorm has no perceived ring on a 16" .308 700. It has no perceived ring on a 10.5" 6.8 SPC II AR15. In fact the few I've got for testing all fail to ring on any of the platforms we've put them on. I've decided you're making this nonsense up, <span style="text-decoration: underline">just like last time</span>. Then you can turn it into an advertisement for AWC and how they wrap ti in stainless and since Gemtech doesn't it's inferior. The fact remains as others have already said, the Sandstorm doesn't have any ring to it. It's the single most impressive thing in Gemtech's lineup. I'd even go so far as to say it might be best in show for what it is.
In closing, when I start debunking your nonsense I'm going to start with this Gem:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tightest possible bore dimensions throughout the whole run</div></div>
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
I have a Sandstorm on a 20" bbl rem 700 SPS Tactical.
It is the only .308 can I've heard so I cannot compare it to anything. I don't know what a titanium ring sounds like.
However, it is hearing safe, and not annoying. Quite quiet I'd say for a supersonic round.
I recommend it for a bolt gun. However, since I've not heard others, I cannot compare it to others.
I have a Sandstorm on a 20" bbl rem 700 SPS Tactical.
It is the only .308 can I've heard so I cannot compare it to anything. I don't know what a titanium ring sounds like.
However, it is hearing safe, and not annoying. Quite quiet I'd say for a supersonic round.
I recommend it for a bolt gun. However, since I've not heard others, I cannot compare it to others.
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
I just got approval on my Gemtech Sandstorm. I hope to pick it up soon. I hear only good things about them.
I just got approval on my Gemtech Sandstorm. I hope to pick it up soon. I hear only good things about them.
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
i've been waiting on a damn form 3 so my dealer can get my Sandstorm.......i paid for the thing on halloween day and am still probably 4 months out........and am pumped, especially after reading the high marks it got on here........i'll be carrying it alot so weight was a huge factor.......does anyone know if there's a company tht makes thread adapters so i can thread it onto other rifles? ie: my 300 win is threaded for a vais and i'd also like to put it on the AR.....smith offered to make them but they're kinda steep.....
thanks
i've been waiting on a damn form 3 so my dealer can get my Sandstorm.......i paid for the thing on halloween day and am still probably 4 months out........and am pumped, especially after reading the high marks it got on here........i'll be carrying it alot so weight was a huge factor.......does anyone know if there's a company tht makes thread adapters so i can thread it onto other rifles? ie: my 300 win is threaded for a vais and i'd also like to put it on the AR.....smith offered to make them but they're kinda steep.....
thanks
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugadeer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i've been waiting on a damn form 3 so my dealer can get my Sandstorm.......i paid for the thing on halloween day and am still probably 4 months out........and am pumped, especially after reading the high marks it got on here........i'll be carrying it alot so weight was a huge factor.......does anyone know if there's a company tht makes thread adapters so i can thread it onto other rifles? ie: my 300 win is threaded for a vais and i'd also like to put it on the AR.....smith offered to make them but they're kinda steep.....
thanks </div></div>
Gemtech for sure makes a 5/8x24 to 1/2x28 thread adapter for your AR. I have one downstairs that came from them and it is nice. Not sure about any others though.
-X
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugadeer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i've been waiting on a damn form 3 so my dealer can get my Sandstorm.......i paid for the thing on halloween day and am still probably 4 months out........and am pumped, especially after reading the high marks it got on here........i'll be carrying it alot so weight was a huge factor.......does anyone know if there's a company tht makes thread adapters so i can thread it onto other rifles? ie: my 300 win is threaded for a vais and i'd also like to put it on the AR.....smith offered to make them but they're kinda steep.....
thanks </div></div>
Gemtech for sure makes a 5/8x24 to 1/2x28 thread adapter for your AR. I have one downstairs that came from them and it is nice. Not sure about any others though.
-X
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
Well, the Sandstorm is on it's way! Damn the tax stamps, full speed ahead! Still kind of waiting on RT51 to back up his crap.....
Well, the Sandstorm is on it's way! Damn the tax stamps, full speed ahead! Still kind of waiting on RT51 to back up his crap.....
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
if you would like the gemtech , you should look into the awc thundertrap. years ago the ceo's were partners and they both put out good stuff (before they went their seperate ways). as far a poi shift, with my rifles the shift is repeatable on one rifle in particular there is no change at all.
if you would like the gemtech , you should look into the awc thundertrap. years ago the ceo's were partners and they both put out good stuff (before they went their seperate ways). as far a poi shift, with my rifles the shift is repeatable on one rifle in particular there is no change at all.
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
According to Gemtech the newer production HVTs and Sandstorms have the same baffle design
According to Gemtech the newer production HVTs and Sandstorms have the same baffle design
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPCactus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">According to Gemtech the newer production HVTs and Sandstorms have the same <span style="color: #FF0000">new </span> baffle design </div></div>
Fixed.
-X
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPCactus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">According to Gemtech the newer production HVTs and Sandstorms have the same <span style="color: #FF0000">new </span> baffle design </div></div>
Fixed.
-X
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
Jack, sorry you feel that way. I'll stand by it though...
20" rings badly. Glad your 10.5 works fine with a 6.8, but Jack, where is the surprise there? Your underbore. Underbore doesn't create the conditions that bring about titanium ringing.
Big difference in suppression between tight uniform bore and graduated bore, always has been, always has to be. Graduated has and is used to attend to potential off axis discrepancies. It is used just for this reason. No mystery, no surprise. Then there is "megaphone effect," its real and it occurs with some graduated bores with insufficient capacity. Tightest uniform bore? Pure physics and essential gas strip and pathing, some cans can do it others can't. The ones I like, can.
Jack, I never mentioned the AWC brand. Didn't need to as, guess what, starting this year another top vendor is going bi-metal. Why? Because they learned that their cans ring as well and they could fix it by going bi-metal. Yes, their cans are more expensive than Gemtach as well.
Gemtech is a good can with good service. I just happen to think they are not anywhere as good as compared to two other brands in titanium for ultimate quiet and accuracy.
Best advice and my first sentence above? Listen to the major titanium brands in the barrel length your going to shoot. They shake out fast. I'm sticking with that too.
Jack, sorry you feel that way. I'll stand by it though...
20" rings badly. Glad your 10.5 works fine with a 6.8, but Jack, where is the surprise there? Your underbore. Underbore doesn't create the conditions that bring about titanium ringing.
Big difference in suppression between tight uniform bore and graduated bore, always has been, always has to be. Graduated has and is used to attend to potential off axis discrepancies. It is used just for this reason. No mystery, no surprise. Then there is "megaphone effect," its real and it occurs with some graduated bores with insufficient capacity. Tightest uniform bore? Pure physics and essential gas strip and pathing, some cans can do it others can't. The ones I like, can.
Jack, I never mentioned the AWC brand. Didn't need to as, guess what, starting this year another top vendor is going bi-metal. Why? Because they learned that their cans ring as well and they could fix it by going bi-metal. Yes, their cans are more expensive than Gemtach as well.
Gemtech is a good can with good service. I just happen to think they are not anywhere as good as compared to two other brands in titanium for ultimate quiet and accuracy.
Best advice and my first sentence above? Listen to the major titanium brands in the barrel length your going to shoot. They shake out fast. I'm sticking with that too.
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jack, sorry you feel that way. I'll stand by it though...
20" rings badly. Glad your 10.5 works fine with a 6.8, but Jack, where is the surprise there? Your underbore. Underbore doesn't create the conditions that bring about titanium ringing.
Big difference in suppression between tight uniform bore and graduated bore, always has been, always has to be. Graduated has and is used to attend to potential off axis discrepancies. It is used just for this reason. No mystery, no surprise. Then there is "megaphone effect," its real and it occurs with some graduated bores with insufficient capacity. Tightest uniform bore? Pure physics and essential gas strip and pathing, some cans can do it others can't. The ones I like, can.
Jack, I never mentioned the AWC brand. Didn't need to as, guess what, starting this year another top vendor is going bi-metal. Why? Because they learned that their cans ring as well and they could fix it by going bi-metal. Yes, their cans are more expensive than Gemtach as well.
Gemtech is a good can with good service. I just happen to think they are not anywhere as good as compared to two other brands in titanium for ultimate quiet and accuracy.
Best advice and my first sentence above? Listen to the major titanium brands in the barrel length your going to shoot. They shake out fast. I'm sticking with that too.
</div></div>
Dude, you're ignoring what you want to from what BachelorJack said. "<span style="font-weight: bold">The Sandstorm has no perceived ring on a 16" .308 700</span>."
Let me guess, you read the AWC letter from Mac and decided on your own that all other titanium cans ring.
-X
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jack, sorry you feel that way. I'll stand by it though...
20" rings badly. Glad your 10.5 works fine with a 6.8, but Jack, where is the surprise there? Your underbore. Underbore doesn't create the conditions that bring about titanium ringing.
Big difference in suppression between tight uniform bore and graduated bore, always has been, always has to be. Graduated has and is used to attend to potential off axis discrepancies. It is used just for this reason. No mystery, no surprise. Then there is "megaphone effect," its real and it occurs with some graduated bores with insufficient capacity. Tightest uniform bore? Pure physics and essential gas strip and pathing, some cans can do it others can't. The ones I like, can.
Jack, I never mentioned the AWC brand. Didn't need to as, guess what, starting this year another top vendor is going bi-metal. Why? Because they learned that their cans ring as well and they could fix it by going bi-metal. Yes, their cans are more expensive than Gemtach as well.
Gemtech is a good can with good service. I just happen to think they are not anywhere as good as compared to two other brands in titanium for ultimate quiet and accuracy.
Best advice and my first sentence above? Listen to the major titanium brands in the barrel length your going to shoot. They shake out fast. I'm sticking with that too.
</div></div>
Dude, you're ignoring what you want to from what BachelorJack said. "<span style="font-weight: bold">The Sandstorm has no perceived ring on a 16" .308 700</span>."
Let me guess, you read the AWC letter from Mac and decided on your own that all other titanium cans ring.
-X
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
Nope, if I wanted to ignore him I would have said " ."
As to Mac's letter, " ".
Nope, if I wanted to ignore him I would have said " ."
As to Mac's letter, " ".
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nope, if I wanted to ignore him I would have said " ."
As to Mac's letter, " ". </div></div>
You're just in this thread to make BS claims and push your own personal agenda/feelings. You haven't even shot with a Sandstorm, have you.
-X
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nope, if I wanted to ignore him I would have said " ."
As to Mac's letter, " ". </div></div>
You're just in this thread to make BS claims and push your own personal agenda/feelings. You haven't even shot with a Sandstorm, have you.
-X
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
Can someone tell me what a titanium ring sounds like?
then i'll go try it again and listen for it. I've noticed nothing to date......
Can someone tell me what a titanium ring sounds like?
then i'll go try it again and listen for it. I've noticed nothing to date......
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
I have a couple Gem Tech suppressors, no complaints and it's always a pleasure talking with Dr Dater... I have a surefire flashlight I've heard they make expensive cans but I know they make good flashlights.
Recently bought a couple SAS suppressors including a 30 caliber... can't beat the price and they work as good if not better than ones that cost twice the price.
I have a couple Gem Tech suppressors, no complaints and it's always a pleasure talking with Dr Dater... I have a surefire flashlight I've heard they make expensive cans but I know they make good flashlights.
Recently bought a couple SAS suppressors including a 30 caliber... can't beat the price and they work as good if not better than ones that cost twice the price.
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt319/1M_GHOST/being5.jpg </div></div>
Thanks for the confirmation.
-X
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt319/1M_GHOST/being5.jpg </div></div>
Thanks for the confirmation.
-X
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
I have heard the Gemtech HVT and it sounded pretty good.
I have been told that the surefire 762 can is relatively loud.
I have heard the Gemtech HVT and it sounded pretty good.
I have been told that the surefire 762 can is relatively loud.
Re: gemtech vs surefire?
my sandstorm finally got to my dealer after waiting exactly 6 months.........atf got my form 4 on friday so one more undetermined wait and i'll finally get to add my $.02 to the titanium "ring" question/comment
my sandstorm finally got to my dealer after waiting exactly 6 months.........atf got my form 4 on friday so one more undetermined wait and i'll finally get to add my $.02 to the titanium "ring" question/comment
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