Rifle Scopes Gen 3 Razor vs XTR Pro (Regular Joe, Non biased review).....No Sponsors here.

[screaminweasil]

Just got an XTR Pro. See my other thread comparing it to a regular XTR3 5.5-30x56.

Had to compare it to my Razor Gen 3.

Lots of mirage this afternoon. 77 degrees. Compared for 45 minutes on a tripod side x side. Pictures are not going to do either scope justice, but I'll ad some anyway so you can atleast see the reticle sizes for comparison on different powers.

Quick rundown as far as pros and cons of each scope (for my tastes)

Vortex Razor G3 6-36
Pros.........
side parallax is more forgiving than the Pro.
Awesome Glass (equal to the Pro on all powers....tested mostly 15x,20x,25,30x)

Cons......
Don't love the locking turrets.
Not a huge fan of the reticle


Burris XTR Pro
Pros........
better eyebox than the razor
Awesome glass, on par with Razor G3 on all powers tested 15,20,25,30x (Surprised me, as I thought the Razor would be better)
Elevation Turret is awesome.
SCR 1/4 Mil reticle is perfect for me

Cons......
side parallax is finicky (critical for best picture)
Windage Turret SUCKS
Zoom and parallax on my example are a little gritty compared to the smoothness of the Razor

Here are some pics..........
(Glass Quality Sucks in the pics, but you will get an Idea of the reticle comparisons.)

The Hill in background is 980 yards away where I was looking.

30x..............980 yards Razor G3

30x.......980 Yards XTR Pro

20x or 25x (can't remember now) 980 yards RAZOR G3

20x or 25x (can't remember now) 980 yards XTR Pro

200 yards...........15x RAZOR G3

200 Yards.........15x XTR Pro

200 yards .....20x Razor G3

200 yards.......20x XTR Pro

200 yards.............25x Razor G3

200 Yards........25x XTR Pro

 

[SniperBro]

So basically what you're saying is the $800 difference is too much to justify a Razor Gen 3? I agree lol. Nice little review from an "average joe."

 

[Thermal L. Jackson]

The camera should be focused on the target, not the reticle (as in your pics). Targets are out of focus. Beautiful set of pics otherwise.

 

[screaminweasil]

The camera should be focused on the target, not the reticle (as in your pics). Targets are out of focus. Beautiful set of pics otherwise.

You try getting better pics with a cell phone free hand. As stated, pics were to show reticle size. You'll just have to compare yourself to see what your eyes prefer.

 

[beetroot]

You try getting better pics with a cell phone free hand. As stated, pics were to show reticle size. You'll just have to compare yourself to see what your eyes prefer.

The reticle looks a fair bit thinner in the Pro, is it notably thinner when using the scope or not to noticeable?

 

[screaminweasil]

The reticle looks a fair bit thinner in the Pro, is it notably thinner when using the scope or not to noticeable?

Seems that way. I don't know how much, if any it really is. Part of that illusion is due to the spacing of the SCR 1/4 mil compared to each 2/10 mark in the EBR7D. I'd say the main stadia is slightly thicker in the vortex. If not really, it appears a bit more bold as you noted.

 

[b6graham]

So basically what you're saying is the $800 difference is too much to justify a Razor Gen 3? I agree lol. Nice little review from an "average joe."

where you finding a new XTR Pro for $1600?

 

[SniperBro]

where you finding a new XTR Pro for $1600?

Where I went to school $2999 (Gen 3 Razor MSRP) - $2199 (XTR PRO MSRP) = $800.

 

[b6graham]

Where I went to school $2999 - $2199 = $800

if that's the case i have a boatload of Razor gen 3 and XTR pro i'll sell you for $200 less than those prices. brand new in box.

more like $1900 and $2400

 

[SniperBro]

if that's the case i have a boatload of Razor gen 3 and XTR pro i'll sell you for $200 less than those prices. brand new in box.

more like $1900 and $2400

Obviously have to go off of MSRP when having that discussion. Not everybody has access to a sale or discount/VIP pricing. Come on guy.

 

[screaminweasil]

Either way.....$500 more "cheapest street price difference"..…...isn't there.
I'll stick with the Pro.

I put my money where my mouth is......

As you'll see by my most recent PX post

 

[346ci]

You won't be making any vortex friends with that review but good that it is out there. The G3 at $3k is over priced, plain and simple.

 

[346ci]

if that's the case i have a boatload of Razor gen 3 and XTR pro i'll sell you for $200 less than those prices. brand new in box.

more like $1900 and $2400

You might find a used Pro for that, won't touch a new one.

 

[TheOE800]

You might find a used Pro for that, won't touch a new one.

Both of those prices are orderable new prices for those respective optics.

 

[screaminweasil]

As we all know, shit ain't cheap in this game. Guys are paying out the ass for fancy rings, spuhrs, etc. So, price is kinda a mute point really.

The vortex can be had for $500 more than the Burris Pro. Both have equal glass (which is to say awesome). The Vortex Warranty is "probably better", hopefully Burris has upped their "warranty response" game at least for the high end stuff if anything were to go wrong. Wasn't Burris supposed to provide a throw lever with every pro? Mine didn't come with one, it didn't even come with a battery for the illumination. My Chinese cheapo Athlons come with batteries.


When I sent the Vortex back for update turrets, they paid shipping both ways.............Overnight UPS shipping which isn't cheap. I find that commendable and probably unbeatable. The vortex parallax and controls are smoother. Parallax is more forgiving. Has more elevation adjustment. "Locking Turrets", which some like (I don't necessarily). Has a higher magnification than the Pro.

So, before I sound like I'm bashing the Vortex.......I'm absolutely NOT>

It is well worth the money for some and is worth the $500 street price up charge compared to the Burris PRO........for some. I just don't think for me, the price difference is worth it. I don't need more power than 30. I don't need more than 20 usable mils of elevation. I don't care about the parallax adjustment being a little more "critical". I like the Burris Elevation Turret (speed dial is awesome too) better than the Vortex. I like the low profile capped windage on the Pro (although the clicks kinda suck on my windage turret).

All in all, both are great optics.
What is really interesting to me, is how damn close the Regular Burris XTR 3 5.5-30x56 is to both of them in performance.
Like I said in another thread, the $1100 cameraland closeout on the XTR3 is the Bargain of the past year, without question.

 

[screaminweasil]

Both of those prices are orderable new prices for those respective optics.

Maybe on the Pro if you get lucky to find one in stock, like I did during a sale. You'll be waiting forever for one from Liberty

 

[Birddog6424]

As we all know, shit ain't cheap in this game. Guys are paying out the ass for fancy rings, spuhrs, etc. So, price is kinda a mute point really.

The vortex can be had for $500 more than the Burris Pro. Both have equal glass (which is to say awesome). The Vortex Warranty is "probably better", hopefully Burris has upped their "warranty response" game at least for the high end stuff if anything were to go wrong. Wasn't Burris supposed to provide a throw lever with every pro? Mine didn't come with one, it didn't even come with a battery for the illumination. My Chinese cheapo Athlons come with batteries.


When I sent the Vortex back for update turrets, they paid shipping both ways.............Overnight UPS shipping which isn't cheap. I find that commendable and probably unbeatable. The vortex parallax and controls are smoother. Parallax is more forgiving. Has more elevation adjustment. "Locking Turrets", which some like (I don't necessarily). Has a higher magnification than the Pro.

So, before I sound like I'm bashing the Vortex.......I'm absolutely NOT>

It is well worth the money for some and is worth the $500 street price up charge compared to the Burris PRO........for some. I just don't think for me, the price difference is worth it. I don't need more power than 30. I don't need more than 20 usable mils of elevation. I don't care about the parallax adjustment being a little more "critical". I like the Burris Elevation Turret (speed dial is awesome too) better than the Vortex. I like the low profile capped windage on the Pro (although the clicks kinda suck on my windage turret).

All in all, both are great optics.
What is really interesting to me, is how damn close the Regular Burris XTR 3 5.5-30x56 is to both of them in performance.
Like I said in another thread, the $1100 cameraland closeout on the XTR3 is the Bargain of the past year, without question.

You make a great point here. The XTR3 and the Pro are pretty close in the glass department. I think the XTR3 flew under the radar for the first year or two being so similarly priced to so many LOW optics. But its a tough optic to beat sub 2k, let alone the more recent pricing making it the best bang for the buck period in its price point.

The Pro glass edges it out slightly. It cuts mirage a little better, better color, a little better clarity. But its truly a pretty close race.

I'm sponsored by Burris, I never try to hide it. And it's nice to see honest feedback from someone other than me. I think your assessments are spot on. And I think having heavy mirage during your side by side makes for a solid comparison. Mirage really seperates out glass quality. I have a friend who shoots my matches who has some of the nicest glass I've seen in a MK5. Its bright and clear and looks every bit as good as my Pro. Until the mirage kicks up, then the target gets washed out where as my Pro can still make out fine detail.

I've used my Pro in a handful of matches now, including a very rainy and cold match this past weekend at Blue Ridge in Washington. Mirage was pea soup thick when the rain would stop, as well as trying to shoot targets in the rain. But the scope was solid. I do agree for fine comparisons the parallax might need fiddling. But in PRS where I use it, it runs great in a broad range setting. If I have targets from 600 to 1000, I turn to 700 on the knob and run it without issue. Real world functionality is very good.

So a couple quick notes; The throw lever went away. Through no fault of Burris, supply was too problematic. Anodizing shops along with many other aspects of the industry right now are overwhelmed. They offered it initially, but realized they can't reliably give to their customers what they aren't reliably able to obtain.

And the Race Dial...is. the. Bomb...
Spent all weekend writing elevation and windage on it. Never used a data card once in an 8 to 14mph wind match.

 

[346ci]

Both of those prices are orderable new prices for those respective optics.

Link please, for the pro.

 

[screaminweasil]

You make a great point here. The XTR3 and the Pro are pretty close in the glass department. I think the XTR3 flew under the radar for the first year or two being so similarly priced to so many LOW optics. But its a tough optic to beat sub 2k, let alone the more recent pricing making it the best bang for the buck period in its price point.

The Pro glass edges it out slightly. It cuts mirage a little better, better color, a little better clarity. But its truly a pretty close race.

I'm sponsored by Burris, I never try to hide it. And it's nice to see honest feedback from someone other than me. I think your assessments are spot on. And I think having heavy mirage during your side by side makes for a solid comparison. Mirage really seperates out glass quality. I have a friend who shoots my matches who has some of the nicest glass I've seen in a MK5. Its bright and clear and looks every bit as good as my Pro. Until the mirage kicks up, then the target gets washed out where as my Pro can still make out fine detail.

I've used my Pro in a handful of matches now, including a very rainy and cold match this past weekend at Blue Ridge in Washington. Mirage was pea soup thick when the rain would stop, as well as trying to shoot targets in the rain. But the scope was solid. I do agree for fine comparisons the parallax might need fiddling. But in PRS where I use it, it runs great in a broad range setting. If I have targets from 600 to 1000, I turn to 700 on the knob and run it without issue. Real world functionality is very good.

So a couple quick notes; The throw lever went away. Through no fault of Burris, supply was too problematic. Anodizing shops along with many other aspects of the industry right now are overwhelmed. They offered it initially, but realized they can't reliably give to their customers what they aren't reliably able to obtain.

And the Race Dial...is. the. Bomb...
Spent all weekend writing elevation and windage on it. Never used a data card once in an 8 to 14mph wind match.

Thanks man. I appreciate you being up front about the sponsor ship. You have been honest in your reviews as well, which I appreciate coming from someone with stake in the game.

The XTR3 is absolutely an excellent option. Honestly, so is the new Bushnell XRS3 6-36. I've compared them side x side and wish I still had a Bushnell to compare again, as this was back in February.

I just ordered a DMR3 from bushnell in fact, it should be here in a few days.


The mirage was stupid yesterday afternoon here in Eastern Or.........cool mornings, with the hottest day of the spring at 78 deg, made for a fun comparison. Both the Pro and the Gen3 Razor didn't look great on 30x..............the mirage was that bad. Atleast looking on the hillside at 980yds. 200 yards they were fine.

You are absolute correct in that mirage is the true test when deciding winners and losers when optics seem close otherwise.

Mirage was bad when I compared the XTR3 to the XTR pro the day before. They both looked pretty much dogshitty on 30x........
Once I put them both on 25x and 20x...........you could really start to see the difference in glass.

Mirage will kill even the best of optics......, on high power. As you know.

The colors are more rich in the Pro, contrast is better, resolution in my example is "barely" better than my standard XTR3 i've been comparing to.
Truly very close optically, but the little bit extra on the pro, compared with the SCR 1/4 Mil (which I love), Race Dial, Illumination, Still Made IN USA, Elevation Turret quality and ease of setting, make it worth the up charge to the Burris XTR3 for me. Especially since they are moving production to the Phillipians on that model.

I compared the XTR Pro to the XTR3 again in cooler temps and it made a bit more difference to me in optics. It was definitely easier to see a difference in glass on 25x and 30x. Again, both great optics.

I have two Mark 5 HD 3.6-18x that aren't far behind the XTR.............until Mirage comes up. Then, it's more notable for sure. However, in cloudy conditions and low light for a 44mm objective the Leupy is bright and clear as hell.

 

[screaminweasil]

Oh, and I agree on the parallax..................I make it sound worse than it is.

Putting on 700yds.....I found the same as you, works fine from 500 to 1,000 on the hillside. You just grab a bit more "clarity" when dialing in perfectly. However, the parallax shift itself seemed minor, and definitely workable without fussing with it on MOA targets.

 

[screaminweasil]

Link please, for the pro.

Check Liberty Optics and ad both those choices to your shopping cart. Of course, it's pre-order, so You'll be waiting months before they come in stock.

 

[Birddog6424]

Great review.

Thank you for taking the time and sharing your thoughts with us.

 

[screaminweasil]

Great review.

Thank you for taking the time and sharing your thoughts with us.

Thank you!

Tell the boys & girls at Burris.............."Well Done"

 

[Birddog6424]

I linked the product manager to your thread

 

[beetroot]

I linked the product manager to your thread

Ask him about XTR3 illumination while you're at it....

 

[b6graham]

Obviously have to go off of MSRP when having that discussion. Not everybody has access to a sale or discount/VIP pricing. Come on guy.

except we all do...those are everyman prices and where from was posted above

yeah you might have to wait. nbd.

also...the prices you posted aren't even MSRP. theyre MAP

 

[Birddog6424]

Ask him about XTR3 illumination while you're at it....

I can answer that.

Waiting on the revised knurling parts and scopes to arrive.

They are probably on a boat somewhere working at half speed because they are understaffed. Or waiting in a harbor for weeks to be unloaded because truckers are only allowed to operate vehicles 5 years old or newer in California. And the ridiculous price of fuel, along with the extortionate cost and shortage of the DEF additive has made it so there's no money to be made by trucking anyway. Which means there's not enough people to move anything from point A to point B in anything even remotely resembling a timely manner.

And as ridiculous as all that sounds, it's so damn close to the truth that it's not even funny.

 

[screaminweasil]

I linked the product manager to your thread

I'm not sponsored........yet. Haha.

Hook me up Burris. I'm ready for another Pro with SCR 1/4 Mil at "VIP" pricing.

After all, I'm sure I just sold another 100 Pros

 

[SniperBro]

except we all do...those are everyman prices and where from was posted above

yeah you might have to wait. nbd.

also...the prices you posted aren't even MSRP. theyre MAP

Lol okay. I think you know what I meant, yet for some reason went out of your way for an argument. I'm guessing you're a Vortex dealer? Lol

 

[b6graham]

Lol okay. I think you know what I meant, yet for some reason went out of your way for an argument. I'm guessing you're a Vortex dealer? Lol

no I'm just saying if you're gonna compare prices then use real ones

 

[SniperBro]

no I'm just saying if you're gonna compare prices then use real ones

Where's the retail link for the $2400 Vortex Gen 3 Razor with no discount? Maybe it exists, but I haven't seen it yet. Maybe post it here for consumers to benefit from.

 

[b6graham]

Where's the retail link for the $2400 Vortex Gen 3 Razor with no discount? Maybe it exists, but I haven't seen it yet. Maybe post it here for consumers to benefit from.

pretty well known it's liberty optics. and was for the gen2 as well.

as posted above

 

[SniperBro]

pretty well known it's liberty optics. and was for the gen2 as well.

as posted above

Just checked, $2999 for the gen 3 razor 6-36.

 

[b6graham]

Just checked, $2999 for the gen 3 razor 6-36.View attachment 7897067

add to cart

 

[SniperBro]

add to cart

Can you tell I don't buy Vortex? Lol

 

[RFutch]

I can answer that.

Waiting on the revised knurling parts and scopes to arrive.

They are probably on a boat somewhere working at half speed because they are understaffed. Or waiting in a harbor for weeks to be unloaded because truckers are only allowed to operate vehicles 5 years old or newer in California. And the ridiculous price of fuel, along with the extortionate cost and shortage of the DEF additive has made it so there's no money to be made by trucking anyway. Which means there's not enough people to move anything from point A to point B in anything even remotely resembling a timely manner.

And as ridiculous as all that sounds, it's so damn close to the truth that it's not even funny.

BD

Do you know how close they are on the next batch of Pros?

 

[Birddog6424]

BD

Do you know how close they are on the next batch of Pros?

I'm sorry brother, but I dont know

Based on what I saw when I toured the plant in April, they go out on a fairly regular basis. We saw Pros in all stages of production, as well as a large stack in shipping getting ready to go out. It's just that what looks like a large shipment at the plant turns out to be a pretty small amount when spread out over the nation's optics and sporting goods stores. Not to mention Burris has international sales.

They are focused on getting them out there though, I do know that. Hang in there..

 

[Peahi2]

Great photography man! Very impressive.

 

[Islas82]

I’ll contribute.

Cons.

The red accents on the pro are gay AF.

 

[SniperBro]

I’ll contribute.

Cons.

The red accents on the pro are gay AF.

And the purple Razor isn't?

 

[ForgeValley]

And the purple Razor isn't?

If I owned a Razor, I would rattle can it. Repeatedly.

 

[Islas82]

And the purple Razor isn't?

I have owned a G3, I don’t mind the stealth shadow color but I do agree that is not for everyone and they should offer an all black option, that being said I still don’t find it as bad as the Pros color scheme.

 

[AirgunnerPCP]

Just as a bit of dissenting opinion, I happen to be a fan of the Pro's colors. The same old FDE or black are boring to me.

 

[springer01]

Just as a bit of dissenting opinion, I happen to be a fan of the Pro's colors. The same old FDE or black are boring to me.

I agree, far from gay AF.

 

[screaminweasil]

The Pro looks badass............even better when behind the eyebox. I LOVE it!

 

[Draftpick]

The XTR3 is absolutely an excellent option. Honestly, so is the new Bushnell XRS3 6-36. I've compared them side x side and wish I still had a Bushnell to compare again, as this was back in February.

Did you test a XTR 3 5.5-30? If so how does the Bushnell XRS3 6-36 compare to the XTR 3, does it get dark at 36x? Clarity color CA? I have looked through at XTR3 but not the Bushnell XRS3 6-36.

 

[screaminweasil]

Did you test a XTR 3 5.5-30? If so how does the Bushnell XRS3 6-36 compare to the XTR 3, does it get dark at 36x? Clarity color CA? I have looked through at XTR3 but not the Bushnell XRS3 6-36.

Back in Feb I compared an XRS3 6-36 to the Burris. I no longer have the Bushnell, but the glass comparison was pretty much equal if memory serves. Hard to say for sure, because I never had them together in Mirage conditions.

I believe @Chickentoast had both a Burris XTR3 and Bushnell XRS3 and said he thought the glass was pretty much a wash. Which means, both are awesome and the two best bargains on the market without a doubt.

I'm sure it darkened a bit at 36X, but I didn't notice it. I know guys who have compared the new Bushnell directly to a 7-35x Mark5HD and it was no contest, the Bushnell is much nicer.

 

[Chickentoast]

I would add that the G3 is also a bargain IMHO (Scott price, not msrp), after having had a ZCO 527 and a TT 525. I'm only running the G3's, XTR3's, and a Razor LHT 22x on a light carbon build for my main rifles.

 

[Boxerglocker]

The reticle looks a fair bit thinner in the Pro, is it notably thinner when using the scope or not to noticeable?

It is really thin, too thin for me to be usable. I got to look and play with one a couple months back at a match. The first thing I noticed right away is how thin the reticle lines were (own a Cronus Gen2 APRS6 to compare).

 

[AMTGMC]

If you like the Red take this test.