Getting back to 308, need advice on bullet options

[joe.canada]

For the last 15 years, I've been using the 6.5mm bullets/cartridges for precision rifle competitions. I've had custom rifles built for my 6.5s, heavy 26" (M24) barrels and shooting targets out to 1200m. Since last year, I've entered events with a max distance of 700m, so I decided to build a 308 Win for this 2024 season with a Proof Research CF barrel 1:10, Sendero 20" with threaded muzzle (Tikka T3X action + MDT XRS chassis). My question for those of you still running a 308 for competitions is this: what are your suggestions for bullets? Keeping in mind that it's a 20" barrel with a 1:10 twist, maximum range I'll be shooting is 700m-800m. I am asking because I've been away from the 308 for 15 years and not up to date on what is now commonly used.

FYI: Why a Proof CF barrel? I want to take it out hunting while also using it for competition. In my 6.5 Creedmoor competition rifle, I shoot the Lapua 136gr Scenar L and absolutely love it's performance and consistency. Please don't suggest other chamberings as I am dead set on the 308 and have a barrel ordered.

Thx for your input

 

[wvfarrier]

178 ELD-M and the 185 Bergers

 

[GIXXER2000]

Try the new Sierra 169 SMK's they just came out with. Also the 178 ELD-M shoot very good in my 308.

 

[357Max]

174 ELDM - VT, 169/177SMK's, or 168TMK. This is assuming your looking at Tac class with 178g & 2800 max.

If shooting open and your rich then Warner 160 Flat line for that range.

 

[joe.canada]

174 ELDM - VT, 169/177SMK's, or 168TMK. This is assuming your looking at Tac class with 178g & 2800 max.

If shooting open and your rich then Warner 160 Flat line for that range.

I’d keep it in tac class

 

[45-90]

I use a Bartlein 22 " 9 twist Rem Varmint contour for all bullet weights likely to be used in 308. I run mostly 200 gr SMK single load 2740 fps. Berger 200.2 about 50 fps less, or 230 gr SMK at 2500 to 2550 fps.
The 169 and 177 SMK are good performers, for those moderste ranges, and normal loadings.
This rifle weighs 11 lbs, fully equipped in its current configuration. Might be a bit heavy for hunting, but a different stock will reduce the weight, 1 to 1.5 lbs.

 

[Chickentoast]

I run the 208 eld-m's seated long at ~2640 fps out of a 24". Easy for you to mag feed since you have a Tikka action... Given your barrel length, maybe look at the 185 Juggs or the 200.2's as suggested above as well.

 

[A.Huggy]

I use a Bartlein 22 " 9 twist Rem Varmint contour for all bullet weights likely to be used in 308. I run mostly 200 gr SMK single load 2740 fps. Berger 200.2 about 50 fps less, or 230 gr SMK at 2500 to 2550 fps.
The 169 and 177 SMK are good performers, for those moderste ranges, and normal loadings.
This rifle weighs 11 lbs, fully equipped in its current configuration. Might be a bit heavy for hunting, but a different stock will reduce the weight, 1 to 1.5 lbs.

Those are pretty wicked velocities.
Are you loading these long to get some extra case capacity?
What brass are you using?

I can barely get 2740 from my 26” barrel with 175s.

 

[45-90]

Those are pretty wicked velocities.
Are you loading these long to get some extra case capacity?
What brass are you using?

I can barely get 2740 from my 26” barrel with 175s.

Yep load em long, as mentioned single load for 308 short action 22" I use lapua LR brass on the above load.
One of the best bullets for the 308 is the 200 SMK....for LR single load use the 9 twist required.
Stick that long skinny bullet way down tbe barrel and get a full case full of powder.
Same with the 230 SMK, they can reach 2550 fps in 22" just change to a slower powder.
Change bottom metal use MDT center feed mags without the center support strip and gifted 2.990" 308 out of the short action.

So go with normal loads or for some LR performance loads, your choice...9 twist and 22" is a high performance option.
...I build 308 on long action too... to feed em out of the mag in a 30" 8 twist long action, chassis rifle.
Also use hybrid cases for a bit more velocity.
Today's 308 doesn't have to be the same old 308 of 70 yrs ago, improvements are everywhere, and you can have both old school, and new performance, in the same rifle.

 

[memilanuk]

Given that the OP plans on staying in Tac class, I'm not sure single-loading 200 gr bullets is a viable option.

That said... I'm curious what length of freebore you're running those 2230's in? I'm *very* familiar with running 200.20Xs in FTR length barrels. 2550 out of a 20-22" barrel seems a bit... much.

 

[charnicus]

I like 155 Scenars. Speed.

 

[45-90]

I like 155 Scenars. Speed.

Yep 155 scenars, purchased em 3000 at a time to get the quantity discount, lots of Varget 8 pounders at $112 ea Lapua 308 brass, and Federal match primers. The go to load. With a 26 to 27 inch barrel good to 1400yds at my elevation. Ran them around 2980 fps.
Today 155s can be pushed to 3100 fps with hybrid cases in a 22" barrel.

 

[45-90]

Those are pretty wicked velocities.
Are you loading these long to get some extra case capacity?
What brass are you using?

I can barely get 2740 from my 26” barrel with 175s.

I'm running 168 eldm at 2756 fps in a 16"AR 10.
And a picture of starting loads over 2800 fps for 155s that went over 2900 with a 16" AR. That weighs 6 lbs without the scope, carbon fiber handguard, titanium bolt carrier and brake, and magnesium upper. And it's accurate with these loads. Mostly for carrying and fun.

 

[45-90]

For just 700 & maybe 800 meters 155s that your barrel loves, mine was Lapua 155s, Varget, Lapua brass, check velocity spreads, then go practice, alot. Lighter recoil, of the 155s will help spot misses at the shorter ranges, I prefer the 26" to get the blast farther from the shooter, makes it more pleasant for extended practice sessions...but if 20" floats your boat.
Taking it hunting ya might want some performance hunting loads.

 

[memilanuk]

Today 155s can be pushed to 3100 fps with hybrid cases in a 22" barrel.

Again, irrelevant for the OP's stated use case.

 

[charnicus]

Yep 155 scenars, purchased em 3000 at a time to get the quantity discount, lots of Varget 8 pounders at $112 ea Lapua 308 brass, and Federal match primers. The go to load. With a 26 to 27 inch barrel good to 1400yds at my elevation. Ran them around 2980 fps.
Today 155s can be pushed to 3100 fps with hybrid cases in a 22" barrel.

I never tried it personally but have wondered what putting those on top of some Tac or 2000MR would net. In the archives you can read about some dudes who push 175+ at stupid speeds.

 

[Jrb572]

I use 2000mr on Berger 185 juggernauts. I think unfired brass is getting 2664s and once fired is getting 2729fps. I’ll back down my charge once I get all my brass fire formed. 47.8gr of 2000MR

Bartlein 22” 1/10 twist I believe is factory AI for the AXMC by Dave Tooley the barrel has a few thousand rounds on It.

 

[bbyars]

Im waiting on my gunsmith to finish my barrel. Gonna give tac class a shot this year at some local matches. 26" 1.25 straight 1:10 T 308 Win. I think i should be able to get upper 2600 to mid 2700 fps with the 177SMK. I would be real curious what the top pros are running for speed. The only one that ive talked to was using the 176 atips but no idea what speed. I would guess some what mild load to run somewhat consistent and reliable....definately would not think 45gr+ lol i would think thats reserved for those f-class/bench shooters that a hammer is apart of their gear bag.
If i were only going 20" i would pick up a 100 count box of the 169 SMK or 168 TMK and try to see what speed nodes are. I have had good luck in the past with 155 scenar and smk but will have to change to a slightly faster powder for the best results. For your application i would probably pick speed over the long range performance of the heavier bullets. Most of the ranges that host matches in Central Tx are usually a max of 1000 yards, with exception of one range that shoots out to 1400. Hence the switch for me as well. For hunting applications, ive had pretty good luck with the barnes TSX series. If i was going to do both with one bullet, berger 155 VLD Hunting. It usually takes some time finding the sweet spot with the vld but once you do, they shoot!

 

[918v]

2740 fps with a 220gr out of a 22” barrel?

Why did they invent the 300 win mag? What a dumb idea.

 

[brianf]

2740 fps with a 220gr out of a 22” barrel?

Why did they invent the 300 win mag? What a dumb idea.

Who said that I missed it

 

[DedicatedShooter]

Taking my AX to shoot Tac class at the Vortex Vengeance in May. Should be an interesting experience. I’m using 175 SMKs over 45.2gr Varget with LC LR brass. 20” barrel and my avg is 2700. Yes it’s a hot load but pressure signs are minimal and I really wanted to get to the 2700fps mark.

My recommendation for you is to pick your flavor of 175/7 SMK, put it over 45.0gr Varget, good brass and a decent primer, load to 2.800” COAL and let her rip.

Also, consider shooting matches suppressed if you can. 20” barrel with a brake is fine for a few rounds or a hunting trip but for me it’s too punishing over the course of a day.

 

[45-90]

I never tried it personally but have wondered what putting those on top of some Tac or 2000MR would net. In the archives you can read about some dudes who push 175+ at stupid speeds.

Yep that would be re formed 277 hybrid cases and 2000MR...for those who want to try.

 

[charnicus]

Yep that would be re formed 277 hybrid cases and 2000MR...for those who want to try.

This was just normal brass. But I’ve seen the hybrid case thing mentioned again. Can you buy it not already primed and not with stuck powder in the cases?

Less relevant but .277 > .284 is a lot smaller number than .277 > .308

 

[45-90]

This was just normal brass. But I’ve seen the hybrid case thing mentioned again. Can you buy it not already primed and not with stuck powder in the cases?

Less relevant but .277 > .284 is a lot smaller number than .277 > .308

Buy new brass? Most of it is loaded.
The pull down is cheapest.
It's no problem to get the powder and primer out of the case.
Compressed air out in the shop blows it right out.
Lee Universal decapping die, takes care of the primer.
Mandrel up to 30 cal, then FL resize in 308 die. Neck turn into the shoulder.
Anneal is optional but might be a good idea...I tend to do it.
That's all there is to it.
Do it or not, your choice, as it's just another option.

 

[bbyars]

Buy new brass? Most of it is loaded.
The pull down is cheapest.
It's no problem to get the powder and primer out of the case.
Compressed air out in the shop blows it right out.
Lee Universal decapping die, takes care of the primer.
Mandrel up to 30 cal, then FL resize in 308 die. Neck turn into the shoulder.
Anneal is optional but might be a good idea...I tend to do it.
That's all there is to it.
Do it or not, your choice, as it's just another option.

What did i miss in this wildcatting going on?

 

[charnicus]

What did i miss in this wildcatting going on?

That you start with 277 Fury brass. Aka 6.8x51

 

[bbyars]

That you start with 277 Fury brass. Aka 6.8x51

Sounds like alot of work, what is the net gain and from what....thinner walled brass? Youre taking a 277 fury necking it up to make 308 win....Doesn't seem like voodoo magic and get 300-400 fps more. Not trying to stir up a whole new conversation than the OP's but ive never heard of this.

 

[charnicus]

Sounds like alot of work, what is the net gain and from what....thinner walled brass? Youre taking a 277 fury necking it up to make 308 win....Doesn't seem like voodoo magic and get 300-400 fps more. Not trying to stir up a whole new conversation than the OP's but ive never heard of this.

This other guy sounds like he’s done it. I obviously haven’t. But the case design is supposed to take more heat from what I understand. I’m fine with Palma brass and less FPS but it sounds sick if it’s real and not whiskey lore.

 

[Makinchips208]

Sounds like alot of work, what is the net gain and from what....thinner walled brass? Youre taking a 277 fury necking it up to make 308 win....Doesn't seem like voodoo magic and get 300-400 fps more. Not trying to stir up a whole new conversation than the OP's but ive never heard of this.

The 277 hybrid cases have a stainless steel case head. They are designed to run something like 80,000 psi safely.

 

[bbyars]

I guess you would not be "technically" altering the configuration of the chamber/cartridge or making an improvement, but that seems like a grey area as the OP was going to use this rifle in comps. Due to the volume of shooting reloaded brass i would be too worried about case head separation...but that could just show my unfamiliarity with these fancy cases. Ill have to do some more research on this.

 

[charnicus]

Yeah… my vote for simplicity is to put a 155 Scenar over somewhere in the vicinity of 42 +/- grains of Varget or H4895 in Palma brass.

 

[brianf]

If it’s for PRS style comps recoil management and spotting your own shots is the primary focus.

Pushing for max velocity is the exact opposite of that.

 

[45-90]

I have shot both Palma and regular LR Lapua 308 brass, with the same load on the same day, I did a test.
The Palma brass had larger velocity variations, worse accuracy, and slightly less velocity.
I would suggest you shoot it in your rifle in a side by side comparison test to see which primer your rifle and load prefer.
I was surprised to find that certain shooters are going for moderate loads so they can spot their misses better. I gives em more time, which seems important to them.
Back in the day I shot accurate full speed max loads to fight the wind a bit better.
Or just increased the range 3 or 4 hundred yards past one thousand, will give ya a second.
Different times, different shooting endeavors, call for different tactics. Do what works for you.

 

[Timo Turl]

I’ve had good luck with the 175 TMK. Good BC and the custom curve in the Kestrel lined up perfectly out to 1250.

 

[stanley_white]

If it’s for PRS style comps recoil management and spotting your own shots is the primary focus.

Pushing for max velocity is the exact opposite of that.

This year I am shooting 6.5 Creedmoor and next year 308.

I have a theory that, for my aging eyes, the additional recoil management a 308 requires along with the less wind resistance will be offset by me being able to see a 175 grain bullet hit or miss easier than a 140 grain.

-Stan

 

[brianf]

This year I am shooting 6.5 Creedmoor and next year 308.

I have a theory that, for my aging eyes, the additional recoil management a 308 requires along with the less wind resistance will be offset by me being able to see a 175 grain bullet hit or miss easier than a 140 grain.

-Stan

Gut call..I don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze.

But there are guys who know and shoot a loooot better than I do on this site

But there is a reason there is a tac class..the 308 is just not competitive

 

[stanley_white]

Gut call..I don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze.

But there are guys who know and shoot a loooot better than I do on this site

But there is a reason there is a tac class..the 308 is just not competitive

Luckily, I am not looking to be competitive.

-Stan

 

[XP1K]

American reloading a good source for the hybrid cases ? I've never ordered from them before.

I've been giving some thought to trying these to get a little more out of a 20" 308. Would probably do nice in a 7-08 as well.

 

[Seymour Fish]

Given that the OP plans on staying in Tac class, I'm not sure single-loading 200 gr bullets is a viable option.

That said... I'm curious what length of freebore you're running those 2230's in? I'm *very* familiar with running 200.20Xs in FTR length barrels. 2550 out of a 20-22" barrel seems a bit... much.

How about that large rifle primer brass ? I smell bullshit.

 

[memilanuk]

How about that large rifle primer brass ? I smell bullshit.

Oh you can do anything... once.

At one point I was trying to hit the 'fast' node for the 20Xs in one of my 30" FTR barrels - there was a predicted sweet spot around 2720 or so. And there absolutely was - ten shots into a quarter moa group @ 300 yds. Problem was the load to do that absolutely wrecked the brass - as in four of those ten cases wouldn't hold a primer any more. And those were *virgin* Lapua Palma brass

So... yeah. You can run stupid hot loads if you treat the brass as a consumable. Been there, done that. Not for me.

 

[mojavejim]

175 hybrid, 175 TMK, 176A-tips. 43-43.5 varget with Lapua brass will get you 2720-2750 w/26" barrel.

 

[The Knuckle]

My rule of thumb has been inside 600 velocity is king over BC. So if you want to run a short barrel and occasionally shoot out to 800 I'd go lighter weight bullet to keep your velocity up. Plenty of options in 30cal

 

[Holliday]

Another vote for 155 Scenars over varget. Shot a ton of them to 1200 yards in Wyoming wind out of my .308 . I was running warm, getting 2950ish out of Savage 24” barrel. They were lasers.

 

[XLR308]

155 ELDM, 155 Hybrid or 155 scenar in Lapua Palma brass with either Varget or AR-Comp.
Been kicking the idea around for awhile as well, I miss my 308win.

 

[Souls41]

I’ve tried both AR comp and Varget, AR comp has way lower ES & SD.
My rifle Rem 700, 20” 1-10 twist
41.9 AR Comp
175 SMK
LC Match 95 brass
Winchester primers

AVERAGE	2627.4
STD DEV	3.4
SPREAD	8.8
Session Note	41.9

 

[Bigrederic]

I love the 175 Berger OTMs, I shoot them for work and load them for my other rifles myself, and man they just are so consistent and transition to subsonic flight so well, they can be hard to beat for all around performance.

 

[bbyars]

Ive been shooting the 177 SMKs at 2620 FPS with good results, just bought some 168 eldm and found a node at 2750. Interested to see how they perform at range.

 

[Forrest84]

My last 2 years shooting 308 i was running 185 jugs and if i go back to 308 thats all i would buy