Feedback Getting Started in F-Class TR...Need Some Advice

[The4GunGuy]

Hi everyone, OK, I'm looking into F-Class TR (out to 600 yards) and here are my main considerations and asks:

Considerations

1. I will still shoot PRS and so I want to retain my 6.5 Creedmoor loading with F-Class as well so I can re-use the same materials (case, primer, powder) I may go to a heavier projectile (shoot 140 ELDM for PRS, but also have 147 ELDM's that I would try for F-Class).
2. When I have shot out my current brass (have about 10x firings to go), I may look into a "flatter" round like 6mm BR
3. I've done some research on production F-Class TR rifles, but can't find any in 6.5 Creedmoor to begin with, so I'm probably going to build one with the following components
   1. Action: Impact Precision (fixed shoulder) 737R Action (what I use for PRS) with built in 20 MOA rail
   2. Barrel: Pre-fit for the 373R above and manufacturer TBD.
      1. I'd like to stay at 27" if that can be done, but what length should I really be looking at for those 600 yard shots?
      2. If I go longer (say 30") what twist should that length have or can I stay with 1:8 like my PRS barrels at 26"?
      3. What contour should I be looking at? Varmint/Sendero to keep the weight down? I run an M24/40 on my PRS but that might be too heavy.
      4. Should I flute the barrel to reduce weight? Not looking for an accuracy debate on fluting here, just want to know what people do to reduce the weight and if they flute the barrel.
   3. Stock: GRAYBOE RIDGEBACK ADJUSTABLE FIBERGLASS STOCK - REMINGTON 700 M5/DBM (AICS). I know I should probably NOT get a stock with a magazine well for weight, but I also want to be able to use this rifle in PRS competition if I want to down the road.
   4. Bipod: Tier One Bipod FTR
   5. Scope: Looking at a March High Master 10-60x56 MTR-5 Reticle 1/8 MOA Riflescope D60HV56LM-MTR-5 but open to recommendations...I LOVE the reticle on this one and reticle is a big thing for me.
   6. Scope Mount: Open to suggestions here but assume that I don't need a tank like the Spuhr I run for PRS since I'm not grabbing the rifle by the scope during movement.
   7. Trigger: TriggerTech Rem 700 Diamond Trigger (single stage)
4. My ask:
   1. Tell me what you think of the above given the fact that I will not shoot F-Class out to 1,000 yards and will always stay at the 600 yard competition distance. Trust me, I WON'T shoot the 1,000 yard stuff. I have no intention of putting thousands of more dollars into front rests, etc...
   2. What am I missing here? I know about the 18.18 lb weight limitation and think I'm good there (I have a spreadsheet that I'm adding up the weights on and so far I'm under by about 5 lbs so far)

Thanks for your help in advance folks. Just to be clear, I'm not looking to win a national or regional championship here. I'm just looking to have some fun out to 600 yards and compete against myself. I could probably just use my existing setup for PRS, but my Zero Compromise scope only goes to 27x and I don't want to exchange scopes on the rifle for each type of match (I'm lazy that way!).

 

[37L1]

F Class TR is limited to 223 or 308. If you are going 6.5 Creedmoor you will be classified as F Class Open.

TR (Target Rifle)​

TR rifles must be chambered in .223 Remington or .308 Winchester. Any bullet weight is allowed. TR rifles may use bipods for support but cannot use a front rest. The total weight of a TR rifle must be less than 8.25 kg (about 18 pounds), which includes the weight of the bipod and any items attached to the rifle during shooting.

 

[nn8734]

Hi everyone, OK, I'm looking into F-Class TR (out to 600 yards) and here are my main considerations and asks:

Considerations

1. I will still shoot PRS and so I want to retain my 6.5 Creedmoor loading with F-Class as well so I can re-use the same materials (case, primer, powder) I may go to a heavier projectile (shoot 140 ELDM for PRS, but also have 147 ELDM's that I would try for F-Class).
2. When I have shot out my current brass (have about 10x firings to go), I may look into a "flatter" round like 6mm BR
3. I've done some research on production F-Class TR rifles, but can't find any in 6.5 Creedmoor to begin with, so I'm probably going to build one with the following components
   1. Action: Impact Precision (fixed shoulder) 737R Action (what I use for PRS) with built in 20 MOA rail
   2. Barrel: Pre-fit for the 373R above and manufacturer TBD.
      1. I'd like to stay at 27" if that can be done, but what length should I really be looking at for those 600 yard shots?
      2. If I go longer (say 30") what twist should that length have or can I stay with 1:8 like my PRS barrels at 26"?
      3. What contour should I be looking at? Varmint/Sendero to keep the weight down? I run an M24/40 on my PRS but that might be too heavy.
      4. Should I flute the barrel to reduce weight? Not looking for an accuracy debate on fluting here, just want to know what people do to reduce the weight and if they flute the barrel.
   3. Stock: GRAYBOE RIDGEBACK ADJUSTABLE FIBERGLASS STOCK - REMINGTON 700 M5/DBM (AICS). I know I should probably NOT get a stock with a magazine well for weight, but I also want to be able to use this rifle in PRS competition if I want to down the road.
   4. Bipod: Tier One Bipod FTR
   5. Scope: Looking at a March High Master 10-60x56 MTR-5 Reticle 1/8 MOA Riflescope D60HV56LM-MTR-5 but open to recommendations...I LOVE the reticle on this one and reticle is a big thing for me.
   6. Scope Mount: Open to suggestions here but assume that I don't need a tank like the Spuhr I run for PRS since I'm not grabbing the rifle by the scope during movement.
   7. Trigger: TriggerTech Rem 700 Diamond Trigger (single stage)
4. My ask:
   1. Tell me what you think of the above given the fact that I will not shoot F-Class out to 1,000 yards and will always stay at the 600 yard competition distance. Trust me, I WON'T shoot the 1,000 yard stuff. I have no intention of putting thousands of more dollars into front rests, etc...
   2. What am I missing here? I know about the 18.18 lb weight limitation and think I'm good there (I have a spreadsheet that I'm adding up the weights on and so far I'm under by about 5 lbs so far)

Thanks for your help in advance folks. Just to be clear, I'm not looking to win a national or regional championship here. I'm just looking to have some fun out to 600 yards and compete against myself. I could probably just use my existing setup for PRS, but my Zero Compromise scope only goes to 27x and I don't want to exchange scopes on the rifle for each type of match (I'm lazy that way!).

Repost this question in the Competition Talk subforum, you will get more responses .This section is for feedback on PX transactions.

Competition Shooting Talk

Precision Rifle Competition Discussion, Talk NRL, PRS, or any other series or league out there.

www.snipershide.com

 

[The4GunGuy]

F Class TR is limited to 223 or 308. If you are going 6.5 Creedmoor you will be classified as F Class Open.

TR (Target Rifle)​

TR rifles must be chambered in .223 Remington or .308 Winchester. Any bullet weight is allowed. TR rifles may use bipods for support but cannot use a front rest. The total weight of a TR rifle must be less than 8.25 kg (about 18 pounds), which includes the weight of the bipod and any items attached to the rifle during shooting.

Thanks for that clarification 37L1! As you can see, I'm just starting to learn the ins and outs here. To be clear then, I can still shoot the 600 yard matches, I'll just be classified as an "open" shooter correct?

 

[37L1]

Thanks for that clarification 37L1! As you can see, I'm just starting to learn the ins and outs here. To be clear then, I can still shoot the 600 yard matches, I'll just be classified as an "open" shooter correct?

Yes, Sir. Now you can have more weight and use a front rest, if you prefer.

 

[OREGUN]

First, doesn’t F/TR have to be shot in .308 or .223? F/open is the place for 6 wildcats and 6.5 CM.

Second, F-class rifles and PRS rifles are optimized for different things. Trying to create a hybrid is fine and you’ll shoot some ok targets at 600 but you won’t be competitive at mid range f/open with a PRS gun and vice-versa. Not that you won’t have fun but pretty soon, you’ll wonder how your buddies are always shooting 200-10x and you are shooting 198-5x on a good night.

F/open is shot off a front rest not a bipod.

F/open is as much about your prowess as a reloader as it is about your skill as a shooter. Make sure your reloading process is completely dialed in. Spend the extra money to have the lowest ES/SD numbers you can get (powder management and neck tension control in particular).

Barrel length is up to you, no flutes, straight taper….most f class guns are single fed not magazine fed so you can maximize seating depth for accuracy.

scope magnification is only useful if you can use it. Shooting in bright sun, with mirage, even 27x might be too much. If you shoot under the leaden skies of the far PNW, for example, more scope power can be used and is helpful.

Watch FClassJohn on YouTube. Check out Accurashooter.com

have fun. Prepare to head down a whole different rabbit hole.

 

[The4GunGuy]

Yes, Sir. Now you can have more weight and use a front rest, if you prefer.

Ahhh, OK. I thought that the T/R was just the 300 - 600 yard stuff and for that you HAD to use a bipod and could not use a front rest, but I get it now. AND, if I did want to go to 1,000 I'd have the equipment to do so. With that said, what "less expensive" but good front rest would you recommend? Let's say under $1,000?

 

[The4GunGuy]

First, doesn’t F/TR have to be shot in .308 or .223? F/open is the place for 6 wildcats and 6.5 CM.

Second, F-class rifles and PRS rifles are optimized for different things. Trying to create a hybrid is fine and you’ll shoot some ok targets at 600 but you won’t be competitive at mid range f/open with a PRS gun and vice-versa. Not that you won’t have fun but pretty soon, you’ll wonder how your buddies are always shooting 200-10x and you are shooting 198-5x on a good night.

F/open is shot off a front rest not a bipod.

F/open is as much about your prowess as a reloader as it is about your skill as a shooter. Make sure your reloading process is completely dialed in. Spend the extra money to have the lowest ES/SD numbers you can get (powder management and neck tension control in particular).

Barrel length is up to you, no flutes, straight taper….most f class guns are single fed not magazine fed so you can maximize seating depth for accuracy.

scope magnification is only useful if you can use it. Shooting in bright sun, with mirage, even 27x might be too much. If you shoot under the leaden skies of the far PNW, for example, more scope power can be used and is helpful.

Watch FClassJohn on YouTube. Check out Accurashooter.com

have fun. Prepare to head down a whole different rabbit hole.

Great feedback Oregun and exactly what I'm looking for! I'm happy with my reloading and have my SD's down around 4 over a 20 round string with ES's below 10, so hopefully OK there. Now I understand the single fed reasoning. My question around that is do you guys "chase the lands" or do you just re-assess your overall cartridge once your groups open, which is what I do today. I know Erik Cortina prefers not to chase the lands and I agree with him there. Also on the scope, I'm an older guy, so I'll probably go with something in the 40x - 50x max range, but understand your thoughts there and around mirage. I shoot in Houston, TX so believe me, we have mirage for sure! Thanks again for the help my friend!

 

[Huskydriver]

Great feedback Oregun and exactly what I'm looking for! I'm happy with my reloading and have my SD's down around 4 over a 20 round string with ES's below 10, so hopefully OK there. Now I understand the single fed reasoning. My question around that is do you guys "chase the lands" or do you just re-assess your overall cartridge once your groups open, which is what I do today. I know Erik Cortina prefers not to chase the lands and I agree with him there. Also on the scope, I'm an older guy, so I'll probably go with something in the 40x - 50x max range, but understand your thoughts there and around mirage. I shoot in Houston, TX so believe me, we have mirage for sure! Thanks again for the help my friend!

We knew you were older than 50 because you were asking about shooting fclass ....

 

[Dalmore]

If you haven't already, I strongly recommend attending a local F Class match or practice near you to observe and ask questions. A lot of your questions/dilemmas will be answered after doing this. As others have mentioned you shouldn't be very concerned about weight. If anything, you want a heavier rifle. Also, make sure your reloading process is completely dialed-in and consider spending extra money here.

 

[The4GunGuy]

If you haven't already, I strongly recommend attending a local F Class match or practice near you to observe and ask questions. A lot of your questions/dilemmas will be answered after doing this. As others have mentioned you shouldn't be very concerned about weight. If anything, you want a heavier rifle. Also, make sure your reloading process is completely dialed-in and consider spending extra money here.

Going to a match this Sunday to do exactly what you recommend. That's what I did with PRS and it really helped. Thanks for the input!

 

[OREGUN]

Great feedback Oregun and exactly what I'm looking for! I'm happy with my reloading and have my SD's down around 4 over a 20 round string with ES's below 10, so hopefully OK there. Now I understand the single fed reasoning. My question around that is do you guys "chase the lands" or do you just re-assess your overall cartridge once your groups open, which is what I do today. I know Erik Cortina prefers not to chase the lands and I agree with him there. Also on the scope, I'm an older guy, so I'll probably go with something in the 40x - 50x max range, but understand your thoughts there and around mirage. I shoot in Houston, TX so believe me, we have mirage for sure! Thanks again for the help my friend!

I don’t have the experience or expertise to speak to the lands-chasing argument. You’ll find adherents on both sides…all of whom have a technique that works for them.

If your local F class shooters aren’t insane sticklers for ”the rules” or better yet, have “practice“ matches, show up with your current setup and shoot some “unofficial, not for score“ targets and see what you think.

if you are willing to go to $1000 on a front rest, look for a used Seb NEO.

 

[NewsShooter]

Just go shoot and have fun, and DO shoot the 1000 yard matches as well. You'll learn the wind better as that is the hard part as they have lots of flags.

 

[The4GunGuy]

I don’t have the experience or expertise to speak to the lands-chasing argument. You’ll find adherents on both sides…all of whom have a technique that works for them.

If your local F class shooters aren’t insane sticklers for ”the rules” or better yet, have “practice“ matches, show up with your current setup and shoot some “unofficial, not for score“ targets and see what you think.

if you are willing to go to $1000 on a front rest, look for a used Seb NEO.

Thanks Oregun. From a scope perspective do I want a 2nd focal plane or would a FFP be fine?

 

[37L1]

Ahhh, OK. I thought that the T/R was just the 300 - 600 yard stuff and for that you HAD to use a bipod and could not use a front rest, but I get it now. AND, if I did want to go to 1,000 I'd have the equipment to do so. With that said, what "less expensive" but good front rest would you recommend? Let's say under $1,000?

Sinclair competition front rest would be great for your price range. Used ones come up for sale.

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[OREGUN]

I think the advantage to SFP and MOA/MOA is the small click value (1/8 MOA) and ability to max out magnification and still have a tiny reticle. You don’t need to measure your misses in F class and you don’t need to dial in a hurry so small MOA clicks and and SFP work good. With Mil clicks and FFP, which you want in PRS, you will find that .1 mil is way too much adjustment and if you zoom in, your reticle might cover way more of the x ring than you want. Personallly, I prefer a very fine crosshair…some people love a floating dot.

With that said, your ZCO will work fine initially.…or the March is terrific…or check out the NF Comp, 15-55. It’s a nice light option too.

 

[The4GunGuy]

Sinclair competition front rest would be great for your price range. Used ones come up for sale.

All SINCLAIR INTERNATIONAL Products for Sale Online - 236 Products

Brownells has 236 SINCLAIR INTERNATIONAL products for Sale Up To 91% Off including Reloading, Tools & Cleaning, and Gear.

www.sinclairintl.com

thanks, I was looking at that one. Also looking at the Rodzilla, but that's pretty far over budget.