Getting straight behind the rifle using a sling?

[SquarePizza]

I have been shooting prone lately using a traditional leather sling (locked around the bicep). I have noticed that I find the position most comfortable and stable when the rifle is slightly canted towards the sling bound arm.

I am not losing my sight picture when I fire, but I am not straight behind the weapon. Is this a problem? And if it is, what might it print like on the target?

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Getting straight behind the rifle using a sling?

If you mean should your body be almost parallel to the barrel the answer is no. This undesirable position will cause extreme muscular tension and a rifle barrel too far from the non firing elbow.

There are five factors to a steady position and each has its own parameter. These factors are: non firing hand, elbows, butt to shoulder, grip, and stockweld. Initially when the prone sling supported position is made correct it may feel unnatural. That's why it's a good idea just to get a coach to observe your position so you can be sure of building muscle memory off the start from a correct position. But without a coach and assuming you already understand the parameters of the factors of a steady position, here's what you want:

Utilizing the non firing hand and pulling the forend of the rifle up into your chest you will create an angle between your body and the barrel. Pivot on your non firing elbow and move your belt buckle to reorient the barrel toward the target.

 

[George63]

Re: Getting straight behind the rifle using a sling?

tough to learn sling position/ shooting from a few lines of text - I know what he is saying but still cannot follow SS's post

go watch a highpower match or attend an appleseed shoot (fundamentals of rifle marksmanship/ sling usage for 3 positions)

save a lot of frustration/ relearning

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Getting straight behind the rifle using a sling?

With or without illustration, it seems that it is difficult for most shooters on their own to get the hang of slinging up. This is because what is correct is not natural. It takes a coach, observing the shooter, to assure the position is correct. When the position is correct the shooter can get a good start on muscle memory development, which is what separates good sling shooters from others.

As George63 alluded, a shooter could watch a shooter skilled in sling usage do it, but, that's still no substitute for a highly skilled coach to assist the shooter in getting it right.

Also, it's not enough to just solicit a friend who is a high power rifle competitor to provide coaching. Good coaches not only know how to do it, they know how to teach it too. I was once mentored by a Distinguished Rifleman and President's Hundred shooter and learned little. It wasn't until I attended a SAFS conducted by the USAMU that I began to actually learn how to do it.

BTW, the text which properly covers prone sling supported shooting is about 3 pages, and, without a coach in presence delivering such information it's doubtful a new shooter would get it. For those interested, go to the USAMU's web site and look for their video on the matter.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Getting straight behind the rifle using a sling?

As SS mentioned, the absolute best place to learn position shooting a rifle using the sling is the SAFS (Small Arms Firing Schoot) conducted at the CMP matches, Camp Perry, or the Eastern & Western Games.

Baring that,find a CMP Club Sanctioned Clinic taught by CMP GSM Master instructors, closer to home. Here is a list of clinics, just find your state and see which is close to you:

http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/matchUpcomingSearch.cgi?designation=CLINIC

This picture will give you an ideal of what a good prone position should look like.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Getting straight behind the rifle using a sling?

I think the unidentified AMU shooter from Kraig's post is 6 time National Trophy Champion Sgt. 1st Class Grant Singley. He clearly shows getting straight behind the rifle is not the proper description for the way a good sling supported, or bone supported prone position is built. Using the phrase straight behind the rifle is a concept associated with shooting from a bipod support. More appropriate to the sling or bone supported prone position is the description straight leg or cocked leg position. As I had earlier mentioned trying to get straight behind the rifle when using bone alone or sling support will cause extreme muscular tension and a rifle barrel too far from the non firing elbow for even mediocre results.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: Getting straight behind the rifle using a sling?

Correct sling and coat shooting does not put the shoulders at 90 degrees to the line of the bore nor is the side of the torso parallel to the bore.

The range for shoulder angle is 5 to 15 degrees off of 90 to the bore. The body torso should project that angle back towards the hips, not contort like a circus side show freak.

The M16 Service Rifle above, being non-adjustable and with its requirement for a 20 or 30 round magazine in it while firing, generally requires some compromise/modification to the "correct" position versus an adjustable rifle. That correction involves increasing the shoulder angle relative to the bore and moving the elbow slightly more leftward so that the arm clears the magazine. If you were to see Grant shoot his Palma or Any rifle you would see him in a position more behind the rifle.

There us an uuber long thread here that has pics of what I describe above. I need to update it with more pics from a recent diagnosis session with another shooter.

 

[SquarePizza]

Re: Getting straight behind the rifle using a sling?

Boy I feel dumb for life letting me forget about this post. Thank you all very much for the comments. My position when using a sling is slightly off 90*, much like the pictures, but with all the talk about being straight back, I started to doubt that I was setting myself up properly.

I need to start paying attention to local shoots, maybe someday I will come across a willing coach in NY.

 

[JoeZ]

Re: Getting straight behind the rifle using a sling?

If I may,
Consider that there are two different disciplines here. On The Hide here most people are referring to bipod use or precision shooting and this is different than sling use which is more traditional field position shooting. The photo above is a high power prone position which is what the Appleseed project teaches.

The two are different enough that the same rifle is not normally used for both. For instance, a precision rifle may have it's scope mounted too far to the rear for a comfortable neck position if one is using the proper steady holds for sling use. An adjustable stock can remedy this. A precision rifle will need a bipod and a rear bag where a sling hold does not but a good shooting jacket is helpful and the right kind of sling is essential(US GI sling or a 1907 sling).

I hope I've helped,
JoeZ