Glass for the LMT MWS

[Magstang1]

I can't decide. I need some help. I'm thinking at least 10x and in the $1000-$1500 range.

I would prefer second focal plane. I'm not sure if I want illumination. I don't think I'll really use it. This will be strictly a mid to longish range target rifle. I'm not terribly concerned with weight.

There has been much Leupold to Nightforce debate. I understand the Nightforce is generally accepted as the superior quality optic. Truthfully The MK4 is probably more than I need. I'm not convinced I need illumination and the MK4 has turrets that are resettable to zero without having to pony up an extra $200 for zero stop. This furthers the price difference between the brands in comparable models.

Leupold MK4 LR/T 3.5-10x40 With M1 turrets and TMR reticle.
$1100. 13.5 inches. 19.5 ounces. 65 moa windage and elevation.
http://www.leupold.com/tactical/products/scopes/mark-4-lrt-riflescopes/mark-4-3-5-10x40mm-lrt-m1/

$1280 with illumination. 13.5 inches. 21 ounces. 65 moa windage and elevation.
http://www.leupold.com/tactical/products...-illum-reticle/

Leupold MK4 LR/T 4.5-14x50 With M1 turrets and TMR reticle.
$1200. 12.5 inches. 22 ounces. 100 moa windage and elevation.
http://www.leupold.com/tactical/products/scopes/mark-4-lrt-riflescopes/mark-4-4-5-14x50mm-lrt-m1/

$1380 with illumination. 12.8 inches. 22 ounces. 100 moa windage and elevation.
http://www.leupold.com/tactical/products...-illum-reticle/

Nightforce NXS 2.5-10x32 with 1/4 moa turrets. NPR2 or Mildot reticle.
$1280 with illumination. 12 inches. 19 ounces. 100 moa windage and elevation.
http://nightforceoptics.com/nightforcesc...-10x32nxs_.html

Nightforce NXS 3.5-15x50 with 1/4 moa turrets. NP-R1 or MLR reticle.
$1480 with illumination. 14.7 inches. 30 ounces. 80 moa windage, 110 elevation.
http://nightforceoptics.com/nightforcesc...3_5-15x56_.html

Still with me? Great!!

So... Who has REAL WORLD information.

Any opinions or input?

Thank you for your help.

 

[spr1]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

I am going NF 2.5-10 X 32 Mildot, MRAD, Zero stop.

 

[Blaster4]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

out of your choices I would go with the Nightforce 3.5-15

I have a Nightforce F1 that will sit on it for that longer range stuff. for the short to mid range stuff I am waiting for my S&B 1-8 ShortDot to show up...

Respectfully,

--KJ

 

[Blaster4]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

I mounted the F1 on the rail for a crappy cell phone pic.

--KJ

 

[bvt]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

Nightforce without a doubt. Which one depends on your intended use. Do you have a bolt gun, or is this your primary stick? I already have a 22X NXS, so for variety I would go with the 2.5-10. If you want more than 10X magnification, then I would go with KJ's suggestion. Either way, you'll be very happy.

 

[RG in Idaho]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

The weight of the NF's in comparable models was an issue for me on the .308 gas guns.

The second item was the zero stop. Nice to have(I've missed a turn once or twice).

Once I figured out what I was paying for an NF to get the optional zero stop, above and beyond the comparable leupy, (just to negate my own lack of discipline), it was a deal breaker.

I couldn't find any place that would cut a deal on NF with warranty intact. Leupy, price is there if you look.

Leupy's warranty is great, it goes with the scope not the owner. NF has some conditions and the company's longevity is not near that of Leupold. YET...

 

[Magstang1]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

KJDrake: Hopefully without taking this thread off topic for too long, what buffer are you using with the UBR?

Well, if I go Nightforce I think the zero stop is a bit above my price range.

I know Nightforce is great, but why do I need it over the Leupold?

Should I go over 10x for this gun?

What is the minimum usable distance at 3.5x on the Nightforce, and 4x on the Leupold?

 

[Oakland Tactical]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

I went with the same 2.5-10x32 NF as SPR1 almost got the 3.5-15x50 but I wanted the system to be low profile and compact.

 

[JasonB]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

Keep it light keep it simple... 2.5-10x32, Mil Dot / MRad w/ Zero Stop.

give Mike at www.cstactical.com a call... I know he has the above one in stock... tried to get the female to buy one for her LWRC M6A2 but she wanted to get it painted to match her rifle.

I told her she was high and no way I was gonna let her barbie camo that NF.

Cool thing about illum is also you can close the Obj turn on the illum and it works like an BAC on an ACOG ...

 

[TheStewUSMC03]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

Go NF, I have not been overly impressed with my MARK 4's

 

[BCP]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

If I had one I'd probably put a Leupold M3 on it if I could find the right deal on a used one. Otherwise I'd look at the Nightforce or IOR 2.5-10 models.

Nightforce 2.5-10/3.5-15 are incredibly good scopes if you can afford them.

 

[spr1]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

Return to battery of the bolt/carrier is actually very hard on scopes due to the negative recoil impulse. A 7.62 will be harder than a 5.56 due to the energy levels. NF builds tough scopes, hardened against both positive and negative recoil forces. My bet is the NF is the more reliable long term.

 

[Magstang1]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

And the longevity issue is what makes me nervous about IOR. I looked at them pretty hard and decided I would rather deal with a company that I have a chance with the warranty.

As appealing as 3x18 is, and the 35mm maintube field of view, that gamble is too expensive for my taste.

 

[saryan]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

Im running a NF 2.5-10 on mine. I like it. I think I will go with a 3.5-15 F1 eventually because I want the first focal plane.

 

[BCP]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magstang1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And the longevity issue is what makes me nervous about IOR. I looked at them pretty hard and decided I would rather deal with a company that I have a chance with the warranty.

As appealing as 3x18 is, and the 35mm maintube field of view, that gamble is too expensive for my taste. </div></div>

IOR has been around since ~1930 or so, they aren't going away unless the Romanians have a revolution or something in which case there might be a hiccup. Valdada is the importer; they might go away, but I would bet another would replace them.

If you want one get either the 2.5-10 or 3-18x50 FFP, and get it from liberty optics.

Everything I have seen and heard makes me think Nightforce is the best though.

 

[BISCUT]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

I have a Nightforce 3.5x15x56 and a 3.5x15x50. The x56 is on a AR-10. I love the scopes but if I had to do it again I would have gotten another 50 instead of 56....TO DAMN BIG!

 

[Magstang1]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

For those with the Nightforce 2.5-10, what reticle are you using?

 

[KM375]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

Has anyone put a March 1x10 on an MWS?

 

[saryan]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magstang1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For those with the Nightforce 2.5-10, what reticle are you using? </div></div>

NP-R2. 30MOA of reticle on 10x.

 

[charlesh777]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

I would go with either of the nightforce scopes. I have a leupold mk4. I like it, but kind of wish I would have waited to find a good deal on a nightforce.

Charlie

 

[Blaster4]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

Here is a pic with a NF 1-4

Here is a pic with a S&B 1.5-6 Short Dot

And then the NF F1 again...Just for some visual reference.

The buffer in the UBR is from these guy's Slash's Heavy Buffers

 

[Magstang1]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

Ok, now you're just showing off (and I'm a bit jealous).

Nice collection.

I was thinking I wanted a bit of extra magnification. 15x would be nice when you really want to tighten up the groups. Is it really necessary though? It comes at the cost of additional money, almost double the weight, and it's much larger physically. Considering this will be mostly a bench rifle, weight and size is not a major concern though.

I guess basically, how much is enough, and how much is too much?

The 2.5-10x36 is probably the right choice but for slightly more cash you can get quite a bit more scope. It's hard to say no to that.

Zero stop: Worth the cost?

Mil, or Moa and why?

 

[Blaster4]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

if it's just going to be a bench gun then you don't need zero stops.

In my experience it has always paid off to get the best glass I could get. Having a great scope has never hurt anyone's shooting.

Also...I would get as much power as possible...10x is nice...but 15 or 20 or 15 is so much better...

Buy once, Cry once

my $.02

Respectfully,

--KJ

 

[BCP]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

There's an MOA/MOA razor hd 5-20 on samplelist.com right now for 1600 bucks. If you want a variable power w/ffp that's arguably the nicest sub 3k one out there.

 

[saryan]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's an MOA/MOA razor hd 5-20 on samplelist.com right now for 1600 bucks. If you want a variable power w/ffp that's arguably the nicest sub 3k one out there. </div></div>
+1 That is a sick scope. I plan on getting one and mounting it for a while before moving it to a bolt. Great reticles too!

 

[Prairie Dog Dundee]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

This is a bit off your choice list but I've been very happy with a Super Sniper 3-9x42 for shooting steel out to 800 yards.
Your going to love you LMT. Today I was playing with the new Super Sniper 1-4 HD, (not out yet, these scopes are prototypes) on my CL LMT MWS. Top photo was shot at 500 yards. First five shots were across the bottom with two hits just catching the edge of the steel. I could hear the hits but because of background clutter I could only make out one hit. I used the mil/mil combination to adjust and put one in the circle. The excellent resolution of this little 4X allowed me to quarter the head on this target and I fired the last four at the head. Bottom photo has two groups fired at 700 yards. The lower five shots with the circles around them were fired first with the SS 1-4 HD with the TEE reticule and the uper group was fired after switching to the SS 1-4 with the circle reticule. There are three hits by the bipod legs one on the other side at the "neck" and one at 8 oclock on the circule. Fun day, I like the LMT more every time I shoot it.
[imh

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[spr1]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

What load was that Prairie Dog Dundee?

 

[Prairie Dog Dundee]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: spr1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What load was that Prairie Dog Dundee? </div></div>

M118LR equvalent handload, LC brass, 175 SMK, Fed GGM primer, 43.1 RL15 with 2.81 COL.

 

[trident1982]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

Fun looking stuff Prairie Dog, nice shooting as well.

The MWS has only about 25% of its full capability at the moment. Currently this gun shoots .75" groups w. Rock 5r 16" SST's, and under 1" w. the Rock 16" CL....ask yourself what will the MWS become when you have a Rock SS .260 Rem and 6.5 creedmore along with eventually more calibers and perhaps even a Piston kit. This gun is truly special and even though I believe the MRP is equally special, I believe this MWS will become far more popular in time.

 

[Oakland Tactical]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

As posted earlier I went with the NF 2.5-10 X 32 Mildot, MRAD, Zero stop. this is because I am used to mildots and all my other scopes are such. <span style="font-weight: bold">But</span> if you are going to eventually put the 20" 260 or 308 barrel and shoot a lot of precision past 800 I would go with the 3.5-15x50 or 56. You can always get a less expensive short range scope in the future that will work. I don't think you really <span style="font-style: italic">need</span>a 1500 dollar scope to hit targets at 300-600. My choice fills <span style="text-decoration: underline">my</span> practical need out from 50-1000. BTW if you get the NF 2.5-10 from KJO (Vendor Here)you get the versions with the NV settings.

 

[Magstang1]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

Ok. I think I'm sold on the NF 2.5-10.

I would like a little more information on the turrets. How many clicks per revolution on windage and elevation?

How exactly does the illumination know work? How many settings? Off between settings? Starts at lowest setting? Those sorts of things.

 

[Guest]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KJDrake</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a pic with a NF 1-4

Here is a pic with a S&B 1.5-6 Short Dot

And then the NF F1 again...Just for some visual reference.

The buffer in the UBR is from these guy's Slash's Heavy Buffers </div></div>


I'm surprised i'm the first, but

Where on Earth did you get a 1.5-6x Short Dot?!?!?!?!

 

[Blaster4]

Re: Glass for the LMT MWS

Call S&B...as it was told to methey don't bring many of these over but you can order one from them if you want to.

This scope is filling the void while I wait for the S&B 1-8 ShortDot