Currently I narrowed down my sidearm pick to either the Glock 22 or the Smith and Wesson M&P 40.
Any suggestions?
Any suggestions?
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Suppressors Glock or Smith and Wesson
- Thread starter tekoleharra
- Start date
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
Elaborate on the intended or desired role of the pistol, and then I can offer you suggestions or advice based on your individual needs.
Elaborate on the intended or desired role of the pistol, and then I can offer you suggestions or advice based on your individual needs.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
They're both good guns.
+1 add why you want it and you'll get more help.
They're both good guns.
+1 add why you want it and you'll get more help.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
Which fits your hand better? After shooting an M&P and Glock side by side, I definitely prefer how the M&P feels in my hand. Both are great pistols, but only you can decide what fits the best.
Which fits your hand better? After shooting an M&P and Glock side by side, I definitely prefer how the M&P feels in my hand. Both are great pistols, but only you can decide what fits the best.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
for concealed carry? see which is more comfortable. there both good
for concealed carry? see which is more comfortable. there both good
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
Either would be great. I'm not one of those .40 bashers, but 9mm is cheaper, and in the long run, ammo is the greatest expense. So my vote is for either pistol in 9mm.
One huge advantage for the S&W are the backstrap options. If you cannot decide, go with the S&W. Also, get a good holster, it makes all the difference in the world.
Either would be great. I'm not one of those .40 bashers, but 9mm is cheaper, and in the long run, ammo is the greatest expense. So my vote is for either pistol in 9mm.
One huge advantage for the S&W are the backstrap options. If you cannot decide, go with the S&W. Also, get a good holster, it makes all the difference in the world.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
He hasn't responded to the thread since the original post, I'm gonna have to recommend a Bryco/Jennings with a Counter Sniper scope on it.
He hasn't responded to the thread since the original post, I'm gonna have to recommend a Bryco/Jennings with a Counter Sniper scope on it.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
M&P is a another Glock knock off, they tried and failed with the Sigma, revamped it to the M&P, in 20 years when I see people who have never ever cleaned there M&P after 50k rounds I may try one, if you want a Glock, buy a Glock.
M&P is a another Glock knock off, they tried and failed with the Sigma, revamped it to the M&P, in 20 years when I see people who have never ever cleaned there M&P after 50k rounds I may try one, if you want a Glock, buy a Glock.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">M&P is a another Glock knock off, they tried and failed with the Sigma, revamped it to the M&P, in 20 years when I see people who have never ever cleaned there M&P after 50k rounds I may try one, if you want a Glock, buy a Glock. </div></div>
The M&P is quite obviously a ground-up new design, not a "knockoff" of anything else.
The Glock is obsolete and Glock has done nothing meaningful to innovate.
It's a good design, but it won't last forever, and Glock has really done nothing to improve upon the basic idea that they have, which is excellent.
Suggesting that everyone else who designs a striker fired pistol is a knockoff is inaccurate.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">M&P is a another Glock knock off, they tried and failed with the Sigma, revamped it to the M&P, in 20 years when I see people who have never ever cleaned there M&P after 50k rounds I may try one, if you want a Glock, buy a Glock. </div></div>
The M&P is quite obviously a ground-up new design, not a "knockoff" of anything else.
The Glock is obsolete and Glock has done nothing meaningful to innovate.
It's a good design, but it won't last forever, and Glock has really done nothing to improve upon the basic idea that they have, which is excellent.
Suggesting that everyone else who designs a striker fired pistol is a knockoff is inaccurate.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
The M&P does have a lot of innovations but I also see a lot of undesirable things they carried over from their 10 series, like having to tuck all the fire control parts under the slide to reassemble or having to release the striker for takedown. I know they have a special catch or something to that extent so you can drop the striker without pulling the trigger, but thats kinda irrelevant, its still 'that extra step'.
As cheap as the Sigma and M&P are, makes me look right past them when considering a sidearm.
The M&P does have a lot of innovations but I also see a lot of undesirable things they carried over from their 10 series, like having to tuck all the fire control parts under the slide to reassemble or having to release the striker for takedown. I know they have a special catch or something to that extent so you can drop the striker without pulling the trigger, but thats kinda irrelevant, its still 'that extra step'.
As cheap as the Sigma and M&P are, makes me look right past them when considering a sidearm.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
the glock if you absolutely positively definately want it to work when you need it the most. it's made to work, period. one plus for the glock is there are .22 conversions so you can shoot economically.
if you enjoy shooting and hitting what you are aiming at, and enjoy a comfortable grip, the smith and wesson.
the glock if you absolutely positively definately want it to work when you need it the most. it's made to work, period. one plus for the glock is there are .22 conversions so you can shoot economically.
if you enjoy shooting and hitting what you are aiming at, and enjoy a comfortable grip, the smith and wesson.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The Glock is obsolete and Glock has done nothing meaningful to innovate.
It's a good design, but it won't last forever, and Glock has really done nothing to improve upon the basic idea that they have, which is excellent.
</div></div>
Is the AK not worthy because the design hasn't changed or been improved upon? IMO if it doesn't need fixing don't touch it. I dont need my Glock to be innovative, I need it to flat out work.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The Glock is obsolete and Glock has done nothing meaningful to innovate.
It's a good design, but it won't last forever, and Glock has really done nothing to improve upon the basic idea that they have, which is excellent.
</div></div>
Is the AK not worthy because the design hasn't changed or been improved upon? IMO if it doesn't need fixing don't touch it. I dont need my Glock to be innovative, I need it to flat out work.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
Btw buy the gun that fits your hand the best and you feel comfortable shooting. Try renting them both if you can.
Btw buy the gun that fits your hand the best and you feel comfortable shooting. Try renting them both if you can.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
i guess that would also include the 1911, about every revolver out there, remington 700, m1a, m-16 /ar15, every mauser actioned, pump actioned, hinged actioned rifle.
all obsolete junk?
i guess that would also include the 1911, about every revolver out there, remington 700, m1a, m-16 /ar15, every mauser actioned, pump actioned, hinged actioned rifle.
all obsolete junk?
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">M&P is a another Glock knock off, they tried and failed with the Sigma, revamped it to the M&P, in 20 years when I see people who have never ever cleaned there M&P after 50k rounds I may try one, if you want a Glock, buy a Glock. </div></div>
The Glock is obsolete and Glock has done nothing meaningful to innovate.
It's a good design, but it won't last forever, and Glock has really done nothing to improve upon the basic idea that they have, which is excellent.
</div></div>
So the Glock is an excellent idea that is obsolete? I think you either need to get a dictionary and look up obsolete or offer to stand in front one and see if they are actually "no longer useful".
BTW to the original OP not much wrong with either platform although I lean toward the Glock for all the ease of parts and accessory acquisition.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">M&P is a another Glock knock off, they tried and failed with the Sigma, revamped it to the M&P, in 20 years when I see people who have never ever cleaned there M&P after 50k rounds I may try one, if you want a Glock, buy a Glock. </div></div>
The Glock is obsolete and Glock has done nothing meaningful to innovate.
It's a good design, but it won't last forever, and Glock has really done nothing to improve upon the basic idea that they have, which is excellent.
</div></div>
So the Glock is an excellent idea that is obsolete? I think you either need to get a dictionary and look up obsolete or offer to stand in front one and see if they are actually "no longer useful".
BTW to the original OP not much wrong with either platform although I lean toward the Glock for all the ease of parts and accessory acquisition.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smokshwn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">M&P is a another Glock knock off, they tried and failed with the Sigma, revamped it to the M&P, in 20 years when I see people who have never ever cleaned there M&P after 50k rounds I may try one, if you want a Glock, buy a Glock. </div></div>
The Glock is obsolete and Glock has done nothing meaningful to innovate.
It's a good design, but it won't last forever, and Glock has really done nothing to improve upon the basic idea that they have, which is excellent.
</div></div>
So the Glock is an excellent idea that is obsolete? I think you either need to get a dictionary and look up obsolete or offer to stand in front one and see if they are actually "no longer useful".
BTW to the original OP not much wrong with either platform although I lean toward the Glock for all the ease of parts and accessory acquisition. </div></div>
It just needs updating. My 1911 has ambies, a beavertail, different grips, bigger sights, etc. Would you own a 1911 without those features? Probably not. The Glock is basically the same as it was in 1983.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jr_V</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Is the AK not worthy because the design hasn't changed or been improved upon? IMO if it doesn't need fixing don't touch it. I dont need my Glock to be innovative, I need it to flat out work.
</div></div>
I guess it depends on what it's going to be used for. As far as I'm concerned, the AK was obsolete the day Eugene Stoner made the first AR-10, if for no other reason than ergonomics alone.
Further, the Russians made many changes to the basic AK over time. Obviously they're not fielding the same rifle that they adopted over 60 years ago.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smokshwn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">M&P is a another Glock knock off, they tried and failed with the Sigma, revamped it to the M&P, in 20 years when I see people who have never ever cleaned there M&P after 50k rounds I may try one, if you want a Glock, buy a Glock. </div></div>
The Glock is obsolete and Glock has done nothing meaningful to innovate.
It's a good design, but it won't last forever, and Glock has really done nothing to improve upon the basic idea that they have, which is excellent.
</div></div>
So the Glock is an excellent idea that is obsolete? I think you either need to get a dictionary and look up obsolete or offer to stand in front one and see if they are actually "no longer useful".
BTW to the original OP not much wrong with either platform although I lean toward the Glock for all the ease of parts and accessory acquisition. </div></div>
It just needs updating. My 1911 has ambies, a beavertail, different grips, bigger sights, etc. Would you own a 1911 without those features? Probably not. The Glock is basically the same as it was in 1983.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jr_V</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Is the AK not worthy because the design hasn't changed or been improved upon? IMO if it doesn't need fixing don't touch it. I dont need my Glock to be innovative, I need it to flat out work.
</div></div>
I guess it depends on what it's going to be used for. As far as I'm concerned, the AK was obsolete the day Eugene Stoner made the first AR-10, if for no other reason than ergonomics alone.
Further, the Russians made many changes to the basic AK over time. Obviously they're not fielding the same rifle that they adopted over 60 years ago.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
I guess your right, because I have never seen sights, triggers, grips, thumb safeties, lights, rails, or beavertails offered for Glocks
I guess your right, because I have never seen sights, triggers, grips, thumb safeties, lights, rails, or beavertails offered for Glocks
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
Glocks have ambi mag release, and have had little tweaks over the years to improve the operation of the pistol. I don't think they are lagging behind in the firearms industry other than the aftermarket support, but IMO is not needed for a combat handgun. Look at all the different 1911's out there and the tweaks and polishing to get them to run 100%, they aren't being done to the Glocks. One maker, one simple yet efficient design, equals one reliable gun.
BTW the AK will not be obsolete anytime soon. With little care or maintenance needed they just run.
I could see you arguing how the grip angle sucks or why did they put the finger grooves on the 3rd gen frame as those have way more merit than what you are trying to argue, but to say the Glock is obsolete is ludicrous.
ETA:
BTW I own an older 1911 Colt Government series 70 that has none of what you mentioned and wouldn't touch it ever. Why? Because it works very well with the obsolete non ambi, shit grips, and crap sights.
Glocks have ambi mag release, and have had little tweaks over the years to improve the operation of the pistol. I don't think they are lagging behind in the firearms industry other than the aftermarket support, but IMO is not needed for a combat handgun. Look at all the different 1911's out there and the tweaks and polishing to get them to run 100%, they aren't being done to the Glocks. One maker, one simple yet efficient design, equals one reliable gun.
BTW the AK will not be obsolete anytime soon. With little care or maintenance needed they just run.
I could see you arguing how the grip angle sucks or why did they put the finger grooves on the 3rd gen frame as those have way more merit than what you are trying to argue, but to say the Glock is obsolete is ludicrous.
ETA:
BTW I own an older 1911 Colt Government series 70 that has none of what you mentioned and wouldn't touch it ever. Why? Because it works very well with the obsolete non ambi, shit grips, and crap sights.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1943m1garand</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
One huge advantage for the S&W are the back strap options. If you cannot decide, go with the S&W. Also, get a good holster, it makes all the difference in the world. </div></div>
Glock now offers interchangeable back straps. They have a proven record as does Smith & Wesson. I prefer the Glock over a Smith & Wesson. Again, personal preference but w/ that said, I have never had a Glock malfunction on me.
I was LEO for sometime and I carried a G22 on duty. Fortunately, I never fired a shot but had to clear leather at least once a night to gain compliance from perps. I found one big deterrent was my laser-max guide rod laser. Once you put that on somebodies chest something in their brain registers and says, "Oh f$%k, I better do what I am told"!
Additionally, I believe that Glock is more widely used than Smith & Wesson and in large part I believe that it is due to their price and proven track record but w/ Smith & Wesson back in the market w/ the M&P Series it directly competes w/ the Glock. Again, I am very partial to Glocks and I cannot in clear conscience give non-partitioned advice on this issue...so, get a Glock or get a Glock? It's your choice...LOL!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1943m1garand</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
One huge advantage for the S&W are the back strap options. If you cannot decide, go with the S&W. Also, get a good holster, it makes all the difference in the world. </div></div>
Glock now offers interchangeable back straps. They have a proven record as does Smith & Wesson. I prefer the Glock over a Smith & Wesson. Again, personal preference but w/ that said, I have never had a Glock malfunction on me.
I was LEO for sometime and I carried a G22 on duty. Fortunately, I never fired a shot but had to clear leather at least once a night to gain compliance from perps. I found one big deterrent was my laser-max guide rod laser. Once you put that on somebodies chest something in their brain registers and says, "Oh f$%k, I better do what I am told"!
Additionally, I believe that Glock is more widely used than Smith & Wesson and in large part I believe that it is due to their price and proven track record but w/ Smith & Wesson back in the market w/ the M&P Series it directly competes w/ the Glock. Again, I am very partial to Glocks and I cannot in clear conscience give non-partitioned advice on this issue...so, get a Glock or get a Glock? It's your choice...LOL!
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
.
I have a memory.....
I am old enough to remember what S&W did......
I do not buy S&W......
I also remember what Mr. Glock did in the exact same situation...
I buy Glock.....
.
.
I have a memory.....
I am old enough to remember what S&W did......
I do not buy S&W......
I also remember what Mr. Glock did in the exact same situation...
I buy Glock.....
.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
Sorry about the extremely late response but thank you for all the help
and the intended use of either would be for a concealed weapon.
Sorry about the extremely late response but thank you for all the help
and the intended use of either would be for a concealed weapon.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
Secondary? You mean like you miss with your rifle and want to shoot it with your pistol? You want it for protection from two-leggers stalking the woods?
@Powder Burns, so you look past "cheap" guns to buy cheaper ones? That's what I'm understanding since you're advocating Glocks over M&Ps. Or are you referring to the perceived quality of the weapons? In my area, M&Ps retail for about $550. Glocks retail for about $540, depending on the model. You can find both used and in varied condition... Most of the time you'll find cheaper Glocks with more accessories than you will M&Ps.
Secondary? You mean like you miss with your rifle and want to shoot it with your pistol? You want it for protection from two-leggers stalking the woods?
@Powder Burns, so you look past "cheap" guns to buy cheaper ones? That's what I'm understanding since you're advocating Glocks over M&Ps. Or are you referring to the perceived quality of the weapons? In my area, M&Ps retail for about $550. Glocks retail for about $540, depending on the model. You can find both used and in varied condition... Most of the time you'll find cheaper Glocks with more accessories than you will M&Ps.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
One advantage to the M&P I see is the M&P can be had with an external safety. This may be a non issue for some but I prefer an external safety.
One advantage to the M&P I see is the M&P can be had with an external safety. This may be a non issue for some but I prefer an external safety.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.
I have a memory.....
I am old enough to remember what S&W did......
I do not buy S&W......
I also remember what Mr. Glock did in the exact same situation...
I buy Glock.....
.
</div></div>
A corporation is not a person, nor owned by any single person. S&W is the largest American gun company.
If it makes you feel better to buy a Glock, so be it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.
I have a memory.....
I am old enough to remember what S&W did......
I do not buy S&W......
I also remember what Mr. Glock did in the exact same situation...
I buy Glock.....
.
</div></div>
A corporation is not a person, nor owned by any single person. S&W is the largest American gun company.
If it makes you feel better to buy a Glock, so be it.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
personaly i prefer glock, only because when i need it to work, it works like a charm.\
just my .02 cents
personaly i prefer glock, only because when i need it to work, it works like a charm.\
just my .02 cents
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Secondary? You mean like you miss with your rifle and want to shoot it with your pistol? You want it for protection from two-leggers stalking the woods?
@Powder Burns, so you look past "cheap" guns to buy cheaper ones? That's what I'm understanding since you're advocating Glocks over M&Ps. Or are you referring to the perceived quality of the weapons? In my area, M&Ps retail for about $550. Glocks retail for about $540, depending on the model. You can find both used and in varied condition... Most of the time you'll find cheaper Glocks with more accessories than you will M&Ps. </div></div>
I didn't advocate the glock by any stretch. I just said the M&P and Sigma are cheap guns and basically you get what you pay for. I personally do not like any striker fired guns and I'm certainly not a 'glock fanboy'...but the glock is going to be easier to service. Thats what I pointed out in my post regarding the S&W internals. If it were up to me, I would not even consider a S&W or a Glock as a sidearm. Its all personal preference though..
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Secondary? You mean like you miss with your rifle and want to shoot it with your pistol? You want it for protection from two-leggers stalking the woods?
@Powder Burns, so you look past "cheap" guns to buy cheaper ones? That's what I'm understanding since you're advocating Glocks over M&Ps. Or are you referring to the perceived quality of the weapons? In my area, M&Ps retail for about $550. Glocks retail for about $540, depending on the model. You can find both used and in varied condition... Most of the time you'll find cheaper Glocks with more accessories than you will M&Ps. </div></div>
I didn't advocate the glock by any stretch. I just said the M&P and Sigma are cheap guns and basically you get what you pay for. I personally do not like any striker fired guns and I'm certainly not a 'glock fanboy'...but the glock is going to be easier to service. Thats what I pointed out in my post regarding the S&W internals. If it were up to me, I would not even consider a S&W or a Glock as a sidearm. Its all personal preference though..
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
"A corporation is not a person, nor owned by any single person. S&W is the largest American gun company. If it makes you feel better to buy a Glock, so be it."
It was than and it does, thanks.
P.S. America's largest gun company is Remington...it is also America's oldest corporation....it is also America's oldest manufacturer...S&W makes the most pistols, only.
Agreement of 2000
In March 2000 Smith & Wesson signed an agreement with the Clinton Administration in order to avoid lawsuits. The company agreed to numerous safety and design standards, as well as limits on the sale and distribution of their products. Gun clubs and gun rights groups responded to this agreement by initiating large-scale boycotts of Smith & Wesson by refusing to buy their new products and flooding the firearms market with used S&W guns, cutting into their market share. This agreement signed by Tomkins PLC ended with the sale of Smith and Wesson to the Saf-T-Hammer Corporation. The new company (Smith and Wesson Holding Corporation), which publicly renounced the agreement, was received positively by the firearms community.
On May 11, 2001, Saf-T-Hammer Corporation acquired Smith & Wesson Corp. from Tomkins PLC for US$15 million, a fraction of the US$112 million originally paid by Tomkins. Saf-T-Hammer assumed US$30 million in debt, bringing the total purchase price to US$45 million. <span style="font-weight: bold">Saf-T-Hammer, a manufacturer of gun locks and other firearms safety products, purchased the company with the intention of incorporating its line of security products into all Smith & Wesson firearms in compliance with the 2000 agreement.</span>
On February 15, 2002, the name of the newly formed entity was changed to Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation.
"A corporation is not a person, nor owned by any single person. S&W is the largest American gun company. If it makes you feel better to buy a Glock, so be it."
It was than and it does, thanks.
P.S. America's largest gun company is Remington...it is also America's oldest corporation....it is also America's oldest manufacturer...S&W makes the most pistols, only.
Agreement of 2000
In March 2000 Smith & Wesson signed an agreement with the Clinton Administration in order to avoid lawsuits. The company agreed to numerous safety and design standards, as well as limits on the sale and distribution of their products. Gun clubs and gun rights groups responded to this agreement by initiating large-scale boycotts of Smith & Wesson by refusing to buy their new products and flooding the firearms market with used S&W guns, cutting into their market share. This agreement signed by Tomkins PLC ended with the sale of Smith and Wesson to the Saf-T-Hammer Corporation. The new company (Smith and Wesson Holding Corporation), which publicly renounced the agreement, was received positively by the firearms community.
On May 11, 2001, Saf-T-Hammer Corporation acquired Smith & Wesson Corp. from Tomkins PLC for US$15 million, a fraction of the US$112 million originally paid by Tomkins. Saf-T-Hammer assumed US$30 million in debt, bringing the total purchase price to US$45 million. <span style="font-weight: bold">Saf-T-Hammer, a manufacturer of gun locks and other firearms safety products, purchased the company with the intention of incorporating its line of security products into all Smith & Wesson firearms in compliance with the 2000 agreement.</span>
On February 15, 2002, the name of the newly formed entity was changed to Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
I'd buy the Gen 4 G22 Glock. Great service gun, cheaper mags, readilly available accessories and excellent customer service from the factory. Significant dicounts for LEO (includes firemen and other first responders) and military (active and retired). Just one opinion.
I'd buy the Gen 4 G22 Glock. Great service gun, cheaper mags, readilly available accessories and excellent customer service from the factory. Significant dicounts for LEO (includes firemen and other first responders) and military (active and retired). Just one opinion.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shane45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One advantage to the M&P I see is the M&P can be had with an external safety. This may be a non issue for some but I prefer an external safety. </div></div>
I don't consider an external safety an advantage. Not trying to sound "cowboy" but an external safety is one more thing that you may forget about during the unlikely event you find yourself in a situation that you need to defend your life and/or the life of your loved ones. In an extremely high stress environment/encounter the less things you have to remember to do the better off you are. Simple = reliable & fast. That is why I choose Glock for my every day carry & that is why I carried it as a duty firearm also.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shane45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One advantage to the M&P I see is the M&P can be had with an external safety. This may be a non issue for some but I prefer an external safety. </div></div>
I don't consider an external safety an advantage. Not trying to sound "cowboy" but an external safety is one more thing that you may forget about during the unlikely event you find yourself in a situation that you need to defend your life and/or the life of your loved ones. In an extremely high stress environment/encounter the less things you have to remember to do the better off you are. Simple = reliable & fast. That is why I choose Glock for my every day carry & that is why I carried it as a duty firearm also.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
The external safety is an option on the M&P. It doesn't come on every model. The magazine disconnect has also proven unpopular and I haven't seen an M&P in a store with a mag disconnect in a long time.
Mine doesn't have any of that crap.
Along with my buddy's G17.
The external safety is an option on the M&P. It doesn't come on every model. The magazine disconnect has also proven unpopular and I haven't seen an M&P in a store with a mag disconnect in a long time.
Mine doesn't have any of that crap.
Along with my buddy's G17.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
Funny how innovative the M&P is but yet it looks very similar to the Glock.
Yes I love my Glocks, but I always recommend people shoot the M&P, the XD, and the Glock and pick the one in which fits them the best. Ill admit the Glock isn't for everyone, but the M&P isn't the end all be all in the polymer pistol world.
Funny how innovative the M&P is but yet it looks very similar to the Glock.
Yes I love my Glocks, but I always recommend people shoot the M&P, the XD, and the Glock and pick the one in which fits them the best. Ill admit the Glock isn't for everyone, but the M&P isn't the end all be all in the polymer pistol world.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
A Smith & Wesson, of course ...
...as long as it's an <span style="font-weight: bold">Old School</span> S&W
:
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">S&W 4566</span></span>
A Smith & Wesson, of course ...
...as long as it's an <span style="font-weight: bold">Old School</span> S&W
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">S&W 4566</span></span>
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jr_V</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Funny how innovative the M&P is but yet it looks very similar to the Glock. </div></div>
Maybe you need to look a little closer, then, because there really are very little similarities, other than that both are plastic and black.
Almost everything that is great about the Glock was incorporated into the M&P. While they were at it, they made it more ergonomic, incorporated some safety features as options that some desired, made the slide stainless steel, used a Sig style take down lever, installed better factory sights, slicked up the trigger, etc.
I own both, but there's no doubt in my mind that the M&P, as a whole, is a massive improvement over the Glock.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jr_V</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Funny how innovative the M&P is but yet it looks very similar to the Glock. </div></div>
Maybe you need to look a little closer, then, because there really are very little similarities, other than that both are plastic and black.
Almost everything that is great about the Glock was incorporated into the M&P. While they were at it, they made it more ergonomic, incorporated some safety features as options that some desired, made the slide stainless steel, used a Sig style take down lever, installed better factory sights, slicked up the trigger, etc.
I own both, but there's no doubt in my mind that the M&P, as a whole, is a massive improvement over the Glock.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The external safety is an option on the M&P. It doesn't come on every model. The magazine disconnect has also proven unpopular and I haven't seen an M&P in a store with a mag disconnect in a long time.
Mine doesn't have any of that crap.
<a href="http://s26.photobucket.com/albums/c114/twodownzero/guns/pistols/?action=view¤t=pistols036.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c114/twodownzero/guns/pistols/pistols036.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Along with my buddy's G17. </div></div>
The obsolete one's on the right???? right???
You are certainly entitled to your opinion but at the end of the day there is nothing revolutionary about the S&W.... and conversely nothing at all "obsolete" about the Glock.
Glock's new grip system is certainly an improvement over Smith's .... it was good of them to figure out that at some point the changeable inserts would break/fall off/malfunction etc and that it would be nice if underneath there was still a grip. With a S&W your just left with a hole.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The external safety is an option on the M&P. It doesn't come on every model. The magazine disconnect has also proven unpopular and I haven't seen an M&P in a store with a mag disconnect in a long time.
Mine doesn't have any of that crap.
<a href="http://s26.photobucket.com/albums/c114/twodownzero/guns/pistols/?action=view¤t=pistols036.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c114/twodownzero/guns/pistols/pistols036.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Along with my buddy's G17. </div></div>
The obsolete one's on the right???? right???
You are certainly entitled to your opinion but at the end of the day there is nothing revolutionary about the S&W.... and conversely nothing at all "obsolete" about the Glock.
Glock's new grip system is certainly an improvement over Smith's .... it was good of them to figure out that at some point the changeable inserts would break/fall off/malfunction etc and that it would be nice if underneath there was still a grip. With a S&W your just left with a hole.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
Shoot both and then decide. Buy as much ammo as you can and shoot as often as you can. I'd also recommend shooting at some IDPA competitions if there are any in your area, it will help you get proficient quickly.
Shoot both and then decide. Buy as much ammo as you can and shoot as often as you can. I'd also recommend shooting at some IDPA competitions if there are any in your area, it will help you get proficient quickly.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smokshwn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The obsolete one's on the right???? right???
You are certainly entitled to your opinion but at the end of the day there is nothing revolutionary about the S&W.... and conversely nothing at all "obsolete" about the Glock.
Glock's new grip system is certainly an improvement over Smith's .... it was good of them to figure out that at some point the changeable inserts would break/fall off/malfunction etc and that it would be nice if underneath there was still a grip. With a S&W your just left with a hole. </div></div>
Nothing revolutionary? Where's the CNC machined slide on the Glock?
Glock's interchangeable backstrap system doesn't actually change the shape of the grip, just the size. S&W's grip system actually changes both.
Hole under the grip? You should look again.
Oh, and by the way, it's "you're," not "your."
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smokshwn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The obsolete one's on the right???? right???
You are certainly entitled to your opinion but at the end of the day there is nothing revolutionary about the S&W.... and conversely nothing at all "obsolete" about the Glock.
Glock's new grip system is certainly an improvement over Smith's .... it was good of them to figure out that at some point the changeable inserts would break/fall off/malfunction etc and that it would be nice if underneath there was still a grip. With a S&W your just left with a hole. </div></div>
Nothing revolutionary? Where's the CNC machined slide on the Glock?
Glock's interchangeable backstrap system doesn't actually change the shape of the grip, just the size. S&W's grip system actually changes both.
Hole under the grip? You should look again.
Oh, and by the way, it's "you're," not "your."
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tekoleharra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Currently I narrowed down my sidearm pick to either the Glock 22 or the Smith and Wesson M&P 40.
Any suggestions? </div></div>
Back to the OPs original question...Any suggestions? Yes, go w/ the Glock. It has been extensively tested in the field by law enforcement agencies, federal entities and SOF units. The S&W M&P series have not been out long enough to be implemented by these agencies in a wide spread matter.
Some agencies have adopted the M&P's but the vast majority use Glock. Why? Because they are econimical and they just plane work and have been proven reliable. This may also be the case w/ the M&P's but they will have to build their reputation the same way that Glock did...that being through years of thorough testing and real life situations and events. Till then, go w/ the proven design...especially since your life and the life of your loved ones may depend on it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tekoleharra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Currently I narrowed down my sidearm pick to either the Glock 22 or the Smith and Wesson M&P 40.
Any suggestions? </div></div>
Back to the OPs original question...Any suggestions? Yes, go w/ the Glock. It has been extensively tested in the field by law enforcement agencies, federal entities and SOF units. The S&W M&P series have not been out long enough to be implemented by these agencies in a wide spread matter.
Some agencies have adopted the M&P's but the vast majority use Glock. Why? Because they are econimical and they just plane work and have been proven reliable. This may also be the case w/ the M&P's but they will have to build their reputation the same way that Glock did...that being through years of thorough testing and real life situations and events. Till then, go w/ the proven design...especially since your life and the life of your loved ones may depend on it.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smokshwn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The obsolete one's on the right???? right???
You are certainly entitled to your opinion but at the end of the day there is nothing revolutionary about the S&W.... and conversely nothing at all "obsolete" about the Glock.
Glock's new grip system is certainly an improvement over Smith's .... it was good of them to figure out that at some point the changeable inserts would break/fall off/malfunction etc and that it would be nice if underneath there was still a grip. With a S&W your just left with a hole. </div></div>
Nothing revolutionary? Where's the CNC machined slide on the Glock?
Glock's interchangeable backstrap system doesn't actually change the shape of the grip, just the size. S&W's grip system actually changes both.
Hole under the grip? You should look again.
Oh, and by the way, it's "you're," not "your." </div></div>
Instead of attempting to correct my grammar maybe you should work on YOUR reading comprehension. I am not talking about the Glock's open grip channel, I was speaking that when the grip insert falls away from the Smith (and yes they do) YOU ARE left with a void space in its absence instead of a still usable grip.
As to Smith's grip system changing size and shape...Bullshit, they call the inserts Small, Medium, and Large for a reason. Is there a square one I missed, a trapezoid maybe?
Are you making the claim that there is no Computer Nemerical Controls used in the manufacturing of Glock slides? I was unaware that all of the machining processes on Glock's slides were done on manual machines.
Being as YOUR initial statement was that a Glock was obsolete and Webster's meaning of obsolete means either no longer useful or no longer in use, you once again came out with an all knowing OPINION that is contrary to the facts of the matter.
You don't like Glock's and that's fine, but save the bullshit rhetoric for trying to impress gun store newbies and English Majors who work at $8.00 and hour fast food stands.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smokshwn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The obsolete one's on the right???? right???
You are certainly entitled to your opinion but at the end of the day there is nothing revolutionary about the S&W.... and conversely nothing at all "obsolete" about the Glock.
Glock's new grip system is certainly an improvement over Smith's .... it was good of them to figure out that at some point the changeable inserts would break/fall off/malfunction etc and that it would be nice if underneath there was still a grip. With a S&W your just left with a hole. </div></div>
Nothing revolutionary? Where's the CNC machined slide on the Glock?
Glock's interchangeable backstrap system doesn't actually change the shape of the grip, just the size. S&W's grip system actually changes both.
Hole under the grip? You should look again.
Oh, and by the way, it's "you're," not "your." </div></div>
Instead of attempting to correct my grammar maybe you should work on YOUR reading comprehension. I am not talking about the Glock's open grip channel, I was speaking that when the grip insert falls away from the Smith (and yes they do) YOU ARE left with a void space in its absence instead of a still usable grip.
As to Smith's grip system changing size and shape...Bullshit, they call the inserts Small, Medium, and Large for a reason. Is there a square one I missed, a trapezoid maybe?
Are you making the claim that there is no Computer Nemerical Controls used in the manufacturing of Glock slides? I was unaware that all of the machining processes on Glock's slides were done on manual machines.
Being as YOUR initial statement was that a Glock was obsolete and Webster's meaning of obsolete means either no longer useful or no longer in use, you once again came out with an all knowing OPINION that is contrary to the facts of the matter.
You don't like Glock's and that's fine, but save the bullshit rhetoric for trying to impress gun store newbies and English Majors who work at $8.00 and hour fast food stands.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
I own and use both.
Perhaps it's your reading comprehension that fails.
Even without any grip, the S&W is still perfectly usable. There is no "hole."
The grip sizes for the S&W change the shape of the grip completely. As you install one with a larger "size," the palm swell, trigger reach distance, and even the grip angle with the larger grip all change. The new Glock merely adds to the rear of the grip frame. It doesn't change the palm swell at all.
I own and use both.
Perhaps it's your reading comprehension that fails.
Even without any grip, the S&W is still perfectly usable. There is no "hole."
The grip sizes for the S&W change the shape of the grip completely. As you install one with a larger "size," the palm swell, trigger reach distance, and even the grip angle with the larger grip all change. The new Glock merely adds to the rear of the grip frame. It doesn't change the palm swell at all.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
How do you use the obsolete one???
I thought the grip angle of the S&W was supposed to be improved over the Glock. But now I learn that changing of the inserts changes that angle as well? So does that mean since there is 3 inserts with 3 different grip angles that all three subsequent angles are improvements. I stand corrected that is revolutionary, not only 1 grip angle improvements but three. You would think the Smith rep would have mentioned that when he met with our team as we were testing them.
Come to think of it, I would love it if my car seats automatically reclined when all I need is a little more legroom
Anyway, to the original poster, there has been plenty of accurate discussion but a clear point for the Glock is also the ability to practice with your gun much more economically with a 22 conversion upper from either Advantage Arms or Tactical Solutions.
Either gun will should serve you well with Glock having an incredible record of service to back it up.
How do you use the obsolete one???
I thought the grip angle of the S&W was supposed to be improved over the Glock. But now I learn that changing of the inserts changes that angle as well? So does that mean since there is 3 inserts with 3 different grip angles that all three subsequent angles are improvements. I stand corrected that is revolutionary, not only 1 grip angle improvements but three. You would think the Smith rep would have mentioned that when he met with our team as we were testing them.
Come to think of it, I would love it if my car seats automatically reclined when all I need is a little more legroom
Anyway, to the original poster, there has been plenty of accurate discussion but a clear point for the Glock is also the ability to practice with your gun much more economically with a 22 conversion upper from either Advantage Arms or Tactical Solutions.
Either gun will should serve you well with Glock having an incredible record of service to back it up.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
No. Once again, your reading comprehension suffers. Only the larger grip changes the grip angle. Whether the differing grip angle is "better" or not is nothing more than a preference. Do I prefer the 1911/S&W grip angle to that of the Glock? Yes. But I don't think making a firearm with a different grip angle is an innovation. It's not an objective improvement in function--it's just catering to a preference.
The grip on the S&W offers a more "complete" fit of hand sizes to the firearm. This is certainly an innovation, because it allows the gun to better fit the human hand. It doesn't just increase the trigger to backstrap distance and maintain the same shape as the new Glock backstraps do. The larger S&W grips have more palm swell, a thicker backstrap, and in the case of the large size, move the hand rearward on the grip to greatly increase the size of the grip.
The .22 conversion for the Glock is definitely a nice feature. I'm not sure I'd want to forgo the slicker trigger, better ergonomics, etc., of the M&P instead of buying a $300 .22 pistol, but I wouldn't fault someone for doing so.
And to answer how I use my "obsolete" Glock 19, I carry it. I like the light weight of a polymer pistol, and even though I do favor the M&P for a lot of reasons when shooting it, the fact of the matter is that a CCW piece is something that gets carried a lot and seldom ever fired. The G19 is the perfect size for me to carry, whereas the M&P compact is too small for my tastes and the 4.25" a hair too big. I've toyed with the idea of selling the G19 and just dealing with the full size M&P's size (which is in between the G17 and G19 in size) but I'm not sure that's a tradeoff that I'm willing to make.
But as for guns that I shoot a lot, the M&P wins big time for me. Everything the G17 or G34 can do, my M&P Pro can do better, and so I keep both in the safe.
No. Once again, your reading comprehension suffers. Only the larger grip changes the grip angle. Whether the differing grip angle is "better" or not is nothing more than a preference. Do I prefer the 1911/S&W grip angle to that of the Glock? Yes. But I don't think making a firearm with a different grip angle is an innovation. It's not an objective improvement in function--it's just catering to a preference.
The grip on the S&W offers a more "complete" fit of hand sizes to the firearm. This is certainly an innovation, because it allows the gun to better fit the human hand. It doesn't just increase the trigger to backstrap distance and maintain the same shape as the new Glock backstraps do. The larger S&W grips have more palm swell, a thicker backstrap, and in the case of the large size, move the hand rearward on the grip to greatly increase the size of the grip.
The .22 conversion for the Glock is definitely a nice feature. I'm not sure I'd want to forgo the slicker trigger, better ergonomics, etc., of the M&P instead of buying a $300 .22 pistol, but I wouldn't fault someone for doing so.
And to answer how I use my "obsolete" Glock 19, I carry it. I like the light weight of a polymer pistol, and even though I do favor the M&P for a lot of reasons when shooting it, the fact of the matter is that a CCW piece is something that gets carried a lot and seldom ever fired. The G19 is the perfect size for me to carry, whereas the M&P compact is too small for my tastes and the 4.25" a hair too big. I've toyed with the idea of selling the G19 and just dealing with the full size M&P's size (which is in between the G17 and G19 in size) but I'm not sure that's a tradeoff that I'm willing to make.
But as for guns that I shoot a lot, the M&P wins big time for me. Everything the G17 or G34 can do, my M&P Pro can do better, and so I keep both in the safe.
Re: Glock or Smith and Wesson
Here I will remind you of your original claim...which has no distinction between the small, medium, or large grip inserts. How's my comprehension now. But feel free to revise away as you feel the need to remedy your claims.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #FF0000">
Glock's interchangeable backstrap system doesn't actually change the shape of the grip, just the size. S&W's grip system actually changes both.
</span></div></div>
Nobody argued that Smith did not make some improvements, but it is comical to call the Glock obsolete.
Triggers are easy to fix to clean up and its not like there aren't folks lining up to put improved triggers in the M&P, again a wash.
There isn't a single thing that either gun can do that the other can't...which definitely throws obsolete out the window.
Here I will remind you of your original claim...which has no distinction between the small, medium, or large grip inserts. How's my comprehension now. But feel free to revise away as you feel the need to remedy your claims.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #FF0000">
Glock's interchangeable backstrap system doesn't actually change the shape of the grip, just the size. S&W's grip system actually changes both.
</span></div></div>
Nobody argued that Smith did not make some improvements, but it is comical to call the Glock obsolete.
Triggers are easy to fix to clean up and its not like there aren't folks lining up to put improved triggers in the M&P, again a wash.
There isn't a single thing that either gun can do that the other can't...which definitely throws obsolete out the window.
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