Going to try the Hornady 178 BTHP--2000MR & IMR4064

[mark5pt56]

Out of curiosity, I am going to try some of these. I have a nice load with the SMK 175/43 IMR4064 and was curious if there's any advantage to these, accuracy and cost(right now 5.37 per 100 difference). Does anyone use the 2000MR/178 combo, looking for a start point using FGMM brass.
And I'm guessing that the 43 range +/- is good with 4064?

I appreciate any input

Mark

 

[briang7511]

i am loading the 178 bthp with 43gr of 4064 and 43.5 of varget. The last batch of 178s I ordered 1500 all same lot. weight variance was 178.3 to 177.0. Definitely have to weight sort for best performance.

 

[mark5pt56]

i am loading the 178 bthp with 43gr of 4064 and 43.5 of varget. The last batch of 178s I ordered 1500 all same lot. weight variance was 178.3 to 177.0. Definitely have to weight sort for best performance.

I just measured the bullet length, a bit longer than the SMK. I have those seated 2.8 OAL. The longest I can go is 2.850 to use either the FN internal mag or the AI. What is your OAL?

 

[briang7511]

I just measured the bullet length, a bit longer than the SMK. I have those seated 2.8 OAL. The longest I can go is 2.850 to use either the FN internal mag or the AI. What is your OAL?

I am at 2.840 which is .030 off in my AO rifle and I use the varget load with one hole group capability. AI mag length is 2.870. Now my dpms G2 which is set to 2.815 (mag is 2.840) and jumps about .100 I use the 4064 load and that groups .5-.75.

 

[mark5pt56]

I am at 2.840 which is .030 off in my AO rifle and I use the varget load with one hole group capability. AI mag length is 2.870. Now my dpms G2 which is set to 2.815 (mag is 2.840) and jumps about .100 I use the 4064 load and that groups .5-.75.

Ok, cool. That gives me a start at it. Just prepped some brass. Thanks!

 

[Road_Clam]

Here's some of my best data, shot out my R700 26" Varmint

178 AMax , 42.3 gr, 4064 , 4 shot group: min = 2618, max = 2647 , avg=2637 ES=28 ,SD=13 shot a .780" group @ 200 meters.

178 AMax , 42.5 gr, 4064 , 4 shot group: shot an .890" group @ 200 meters. (late afternoon low sun angle lighting, so unreliable chrono data),

 

[Rob01]

The 178 BTHP has a .530 BC vs the .496 of the 175 SMK so you get a better BC. Never weighed any of the 178s but they have all be very accurate and the BC holds true out to 800 which is the farthest I have been able to shoot the 178 BTHP.

 

[Rob01]

Hey Rob,
Is the 800yds because that's all you had range wise or did they not perform well after that?
Thanks,
Dave

That's as far as the stages of fire went at that match. My score was one of the highest at that range with them if that says anything.

I have shot the 178 AMAX to 1300 yards so with the way the 178 BTHPs shot at 800 I would not be worried about them going farther.

 

[sakobob]

i am loading the 178 bthp with 43gr of 4064 and 43.5 of varget. The last batch of 178s I ordered 1500 all same lot. weight variance was 178.3 to 177.0. Definitely have to weight sort for best performance.

fps of that varget load? and brass type.

 

[Rob01]

I was loading 44grns of Varget in Hornady once fired brass and getting around 2700fps when I shot those.

 

[briang7511]

I routinely shoot them out to 1k with great results. Target only no competitions yet. I am at 2720fps with federale brass loaded with 43.5 of varget out of the rifle pictured below.

 

[diego-ted]

weight was all over the place!! Too much for me to get any consistency. I am having the same issue with the 75 grainers. Go to the Burger OTMs and don't look back!

diego

 

[briang7511]

weight was all over the place!! Too much for me to get any consistency. I am having the same issue with the 75 grainers. Go to the Burger OTMs and don't look back!

diego

I have used bergers and yes you don't need to weight sort as they come usually with in .3 to .4 of eachother but for the price if you have to do a little sorting on a digital scale it goes quick. I have time, its the money thing that I don't seem to have a lot of.

 

[Rob01]

Never weighed ANY bullets in any rifle I have shot and seem to do just fine. Have shot Sierra, Hornady, Lapua, and Berger over the years and once a good load is worked up they all work great.

IMHO people get too wrapped up in weighing bullets and brass. Not making excuses for Hornady bullets as they don't need any but just a general statement. Only thing I weigh is my powder charge.

 

[BCP]

Out of curiosity, I am going to try some of these. I have a nice load with the SMK 175/43 IMR4064 and was curious if there's any advantage to these, accuracy and cost(right now 5.37 per 100 difference). Does anyone use the 2000MR/178 combo, looking for a start point using FGMM brass.
And I'm guessing that the 43 range +/- is good with 4064?

I appreciate any input

Mark

2000MR 46.2 grains FC brass 178 2.81" was my load. Was about 60fps faster than M118LR from the same barrel.

 

[diego-ted]

Never weighed ANY bullets in any rifle I have shot and seem to do just fine. Have shot Sierra, Hornady, Lapua, and Berger over the years and once a good load is worked up they all work great.

IMHO people get too wrapped up in weighing bullets and brass. Not making excuses for Hornady bullets as they don't need any but just a general statement. Only thing I weigh is my powder charge.

than you must be shooting large pieces of steel and are happy as long as you hear it ring, because a 5" target at 1000 yards would show you the error of your ways. No disrespect intended!

Diego

 

[Rob01]

than you must be shooting large pieces of steel and are happy as long as you hear it ring, because a 5" target at 1000 yards would show you the error of your ways. No disrespect intended!

Diego

You can make that assumption but you would be wrong.

 

[mark5pt56]

I've never weighed anything myself, nothing earth shattering on my last 1k score of 188-all wind errors. Used the 185 Berger and 46.5 2000MR, AI 24" --Even used "crappy" FC cases.

Anyhow, loaded 46.3/46.6/46.9/47.2 of the 2000MR and 42.7/43/43.3/43.6 IMR4064, both seated 2.840. I had to tap the 4064 loads on the bench to avoid the crunching a bit. That's why I went to 2000MR with the Bergers. Hope to try them out Sunday.

 

[LawnMM]

than you must be shooting large pieces of steel and are happy as long as you hear it ring, because a 5" target at 1000 yards would show you the error of your ways. No disrespect intended!

Diego

Lol. You must be a bench rester / f class guy. No disrespect to those shooters, but I do get a laugh when I hear stuff like this. "Try a five inch target at 1000yds" okay... deal. I'll shoot at paper targets with tons of sighting shots at 1000 if you shoot at some moa steel from 600-800 from compromised shooting positions and no sighters, two attempts and bust.

It's probably safest if we all avoid making assumptions about each other and our ability levels.

 

[diego-ted]

I just checked the last 500 i weight sorted, from 177.4 to 178.9, if you are saying this does not make a difference at 800 yards, then I am nuts!! No disrespect intended.

Ted

 

[Rob01]

I just checked the last 500 i weight sorted, from 177.4 to 178.9, if you are saying this does not make a difference at 800 yards, then I am nuts!! No disrespect intended.

Ted

Well went to my trusty JBM ballistics, which has always worked for me in the past, and put in your extreme high and low 178.9 and 177.4 as bullet weights with the .530 BC at sea level and 59 degrees just to see what the difference would be at 1000 yards. Guess what? Exact same drop for both bullet weights at 34.1 MOA and 9.9 mils drop. Then I figured I would try Hornady's and Federals calculators. Guess what? Exact same drop numbers between the weights at 33.9 and 9.9 mils on Hornady and 34.2 MOA and 9.9 on Federal. Hmmmm sorry to tell you this but you might be nuts

 

[JGorski]

I shoot 47.3grs 2000MR with 178s in my 700 308, very good results in Rem Brass, which weighs the same as Fed brass.

 

[mark5pt56]

Second round

I just did some testing with Fed brass and the 178's, used IMR4064 and 2000MR. My 175 SMK/IMR4064 was 43 at 2.8 and the best I could tell 43 of IMR4064/178 but at 2.840 works the best, 42.7 impacted pretty much the same. Wheels seemed to come off at 43.3
I did a work up on the 185 Berger OTM/2000MR at 47 and works as well with the 178. 47.2 opened up a tad

Velocity was at/about 2660 for the IMR4064 and 2770 with 2000MR. 22" barrel. 1/2" av. last group of 2000MR, shot one each 46.8/47/47.2 and bugholed

Hope that helps

 

[jdboy]

I just ordered 200 of these, have Varget, H380, IMR4895, and BL-C2 powders to try. Wish me luck!

 

[Aimsmall55]

I have been shooting the 185 juggernaut with 47.0 pp2000 mr for long range ( 700 to 1,000 yards) with great success. I started thinking I want a lighter "cheaper bullet" for inside 700 yards. Started playing with the 178 amax and IMR 4064. WOW.... All I can say.
I started with fire formed lapua brass. Used a whidden bump , bushing die with a .334 bushing. My first outing was yesterday at 187 yards. The first shot was off the group ( I think it was me) but then the other 3 went into the same hole pretty much.

4 shots ( one pulled )


Today I loaded up 7 more to shoot at 108 yards. Wanted to confirm its a good solid load.




Needless to say. I plan on shooting the 27$ amaxs and saving the 50$ Bergers

 

[173rdabn]

I'm using 43.6gr 4064 with 178 amax in my accuracy international and it loves that combo.

 

[mark5pt56]

Excellent! My 185 Juggernaut is 47 also with 2000MR. This is for both the Winchester and AI. I had slight pressure signs at 47.5 on the Winny and none at 48 with the AI. Since the 47 was the most accurate in both, just running that verses seeing how far I could go on the AI. 48 was accurate as well with that.

 

[Seandradamus]

I have been shooting the 185 juggernaut with 47.0 pp2000 mr for long range ( 700 to 1,000 yards) with great success. I started thinking I want a lighter "cheaper bullet" for inside 700 yards. Started playing with the 178 amax and IMR 4064. WOW.... All I can say.
I started with fire formed lapua brass. Used a whidden bump , bushing die with a .334 bushing. My first outing was yesterday at 187 yards. The first shot was off the group ( I think it was me) but then the other 3 went into the same hole pretty much.

4 shots ( one pulled )


Today I loaded up 7 more to shoot at 108 yards. Wanted to confirm its a good solid load.




Needless to say. I plan on shooting the 27$ amaxs and saving the 50$ Bergers

You are obviously a hell of a shooter but wow every rifle you own is 1 hole capable.
Nicely done I also couldn't ignore the 178 amax even though my juggernauts are prettier. 42.6 of 4064 consistently under .5 moa , most likely better if you were shooting.

 

[Aimsmall55]

You are obviously a hell of a shooter but wow every rifle you own is 1 hole capable.
Nicely done I also couldn't ignore the 178 amax even though my juggernauts are prettier. 42.6 of 4064 consistently under .5 moa , most likely better if you were shooting.

I appreciate that. I've shot the 4064 with the 185 juggernaut with awesome results too. I just had my dope and A LOT of the 185's loaded with power pro. It shot GREAT though.