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Good chronograph for a black powder cannon??
- Thread starter stefan73
- Start date
I'd say a lab radar and recoil trigger would be best.
I used a magneto for a muzzle loader without any issues. I was concerned the radar might trigger with the funky ignition they have and don't have a recoil trigger.
I used a magneto for a muzzle loader without any issues. I was concerned the radar might trigger with the funky ignition they have and don't have a recoil trigger.
Get a highspeed camera and make a reference board to use as a filming backdrop.
Take a film of your balls moving across the board, do some math and adjust your powder as needed for best ES/SD and to reach your desired velocity.
Take a film of your balls moving across the board, do some math and adjust your powder as needed for best ES/SD and to reach your desired velocity.
please make sure your balls are smooth. Smooth balls are easier to film and take pictures of as they move across the board.
Nobody wants to see or film balls moving across a board that are not photogenic.
Smooth balls will measure easier
edit - trigger monkey beat my reply by a minute lol
- Nov 3, 2010
- 9,704
- 20,407
Suitable for any balls.....get The Smarter Every Day guy to film your balls.
This is for my first time live firing the cannon. I have no idea how accurate it will be. It will be both with 2.25" cast zinc projo's and pool balls (I'll probably patch to prevent acrylic buildup in the bore). I would love to chrono grape shot with various materials. Cannon powder starting at 3 1/2 ounces per charge up to about 5 or 6 ounces which is my max (I'm going to try and stay in the lower end if possible).
@sirhrmechanic
That's one on me... there are a couple of YouTube videos that show Chronos. Or high-speed cameras. They show the 'super-high-frame-rate' firing of carriages taking torque load, powder coming out the barrel... projectile. Very, very cool stuff!!
But never tried it my self.
I 'think' I have a couple of old artillery manuals that give some 'expected' velocities. However, they would be for cast-iron projectiles and government-spec powder c. 1860's. I don't think they would translate to pool balls! ;-)
Let me know what works! Sounds like a cool project!
Sirhr
PS. I turn my projectiles from Aluminum bar. Sort of a 'big minie' ball! With a hollow skirt. In the rifled Mountain Rifle it is an incredibly accurate projectile. But not allowed for things like NSSA competition. But since I don't compete, I don't care. I want to hit stuff with a big slug of metal at really long ranges! It's fun!
But never tried it my self.
I 'think' I have a couple of old artillery manuals that give some 'expected' velocities. However, they would be for cast-iron projectiles and government-spec powder c. 1860's. I don't think they would translate to pool balls! ;-)
Let me know what works! Sounds like a cool project!
Sirhr
PS. I turn my projectiles from Aluminum bar. Sort of a 'big minie' ball! With a hollow skirt. In the rifled Mountain Rifle it is an incredibly accurate projectile. But not allowed for things like NSSA competition. But since I don't compete, I don't care. I want to hit stuff with a big slug of metal at really long ranges! It's fun!
I'm sure it will, but my concern with the muzzle loader was the small ignition bang then the bigger bang. Don't cannons have the same thing? Maybe it won't matter enough in cannon fps, I don't know.
Not sure how awkward that conversation would be.But it would give rough estimates for zinc cast balls.
out of curiosity - what's the bore size on your cannon?
Did you get a good deal on the 890mm Tsar Cannon?
2.31" bore, half scale Napoleon 12lb. Next cannon I want is a full size mountain howitzer at 4.62" bore.out of curiosity - what's the bore size on your cannon?
Did you get a good deal on the 890mm Tsar Cannon?
you thinking of getting into Mortars?
It's only 13 lbs of powder a shot
and for those lazy people..
Here a pic of a 12lb'r
It's only 13 lbs of powder a shot
and for those lazy people..
Here a pic of a 12lb'r
I have a Mountain Howitzer. I can tell you that the Tredegar mountain rifle is way more fun…
Sirhr
What are you guys rocking for sights? 120 moa rail? Does lyman make some ladder sights?
But really.. this has really piqued my interests. I think I'd like my next "gun" purchase to be:
hernironworks.com
@sirhrmechanic are you making your own black powder? Also what are you using for projectiles? Thanks
But really.. this has really piqued my interests. I think I'd like my next "gun" purchase to be:
1841 6 Pounder Cannon - 1/2 Scale
drew up the design for this gun, which is one of the most common of all the artillery pieces of the Civil War. Originally a smooth bore, many were rifled to fire the James projectile…
hernironworks.com
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Look at Peterson Arms https://petersenarmscannons.com/ He machines them out of a billet. Mine half scale Napoleon was out of a solid billet of 1018 if I remember correctly.What are you guys rocking for sights? 120 moa rail? Does lyman make some ladder sights?
But really.. this has really piqued my interests. I think I'd like my next "gun" purchase to be:
@sirhrmechanic are you making your own black powder? Also what are you using for projectiles? Thanks1841 6 Pounder Cannon - 1/2 Scale
drew up the design for this gun, which is one of the most common of all the artillery pieces of the Civil War. Originally a smooth bore, many were rifled to fire the James projectile…
I have a BP distributor about 10 miles from my house, I'm goodyou thinking of getting into Mortars?
It's only 13 lbs of powder a shot
and for those lazy people..
Here a pic of a 12lb'r
Always, always wanted a 6 pound Napoleon. Brenda Lea just would not approve. I figured it would be just the thing to remind a particular neighbor that we mean business when we say Get the (insert four letter word of your choice preferably starting with the letter “F” ) off of my lawn and out of my sight. Also, sending a shot across the bow of boats in the cove not for spite or meanness, but jsut to get a laugh would be great fun.you thinking of getting into Mortars?
It's only 13 lbs of powder a shot
and for those lazy people..
Here a pic of a 12lb'r
Can’t figure out just why Brenda Lea keeps saying ”NO!.”
We actually have one member of our community that is such an ass, he is universally hated by peoples all over the lake. I suspect most would enjoy seeing a few cannonballs shot at his house.
- Nov 3, 2010
- 9,704
- 20,407
Good starter might be, “I bet you (50/100/0/whatever amount of your choosing) that your radar can’t tell me how fast a cannon ball goes” I bet any cop would take interest haha
Get the Furl off of my lawn and get the Fews out of my Froeing sight you Fern face!
So, I didn't ask permission. My wife heard the cannon fire while she was watching TV with her mom at the house (obviously that brought about some non-approving looks). My kids think it is cool, it will be cooler once I build the carriage.
I gave some warning to the neighbors but apparently when I texted them "I am going to test fire my cannon and wanted to give you a heads up" they didn't grab on to the "cannon" part.
My test fire entailed some neighbors yelling "what the F#*k was that?" and another neighbor yelling "he has a f'ing cannon!!" and another neighbor texting me two hours later telling me they have two cats and a dog that are indoors and after two hours they have only been able to find one of the cats and her sons school book moved across the table while he was doing homework when I fired the cannon. The neighborhood near me heard "loud explosions". It was an exciting event
I told my neighbor I need to get my flag pole and a bugle now for 0630's
I wonder if he thinks I was joking?That would work better than how I would have phrased it. My luck I would have found the one guy without a sense of humor.
I buy powder. There are sources. That said, I have not shot much in the last 2 years. So not paying attention to availability as much as I used to.What are you guys rocking for sights? 120 moa rail? Does lyman make some ladder sights?
But really.. this has really piqued my interests. I think I'd like my next "gun" purchase to be:
@sirhrmechanic are you making your own black powder? Also what are you using for projectiles? Thanks1841 6 Pounder Cannon - 1/2 Scale
drew up the design for this gun, which is one of the most common of all the artillery pieces of the Civil War. Originally a smooth bore, many were rifled to fire the James projectile…
Sights... We use cannon sights! Ladder sights or pendulum hause.
In the Civil War, a trained crew with a rifled cannon (parrot, Phoenix or mountain rifle) could hit a flour barrel, cold bore... at a mile. Now a flour barrel was about 4x4 feet! For a military flour barrel. So not a small target. But the stories of cannon crews putting balls through specific house windows, etc. are not apocryphal.
Hern is a good company. Check out Steen for some of the absolute best. Again, a half-scale 6 pounder may not be as much fun as a full-scale Tredegar Mountain Rifle. It is sort of the cool cannon if you are only going to have one. Does everything well!
Cheers,
Sirhr
Thanks for the response and insight. Maybe I'll save up for a full size.
That's impressive what they could do. I used to plot polar and grid missions for the M198 and M777 Howitzer. With non precision rounds we normally were steel on steel or within 50 meters. With the Rap rounds (rocket assisted, gps) we were within 10 meters every time.
We had direct hits on T72 tanks in Yakima at 22 miles with Rap rounds. 18 miles with standard HE rounds.
Man I miss that...
That's impressive what they could do. I used to plot polar and grid missions for the M198 and M777 Howitzer. With non precision rounds we normally were steel on steel or within 50 meters. With the Rap rounds (rocket assisted, gps) we were within 10 meters every time.
We had direct hits on T72 tanks in Yakima at 22 miles with Rap rounds. 18 miles with standard HE rounds.
Man I miss that...
A scaled version might be a good start though. The ability to move/transport a full size cannon (trailer, and then moving it to just fire it since just the barrel alone weighs over 1200lbs), store it along with the cost for the carriage and every time you shoot the cannon you are burning a LOT of powder which makes it pretty expensive. You could join a re-enactment group? That could help get you discounts on powder. Making your own carriage would cut down the cost significantly.
Be careful with some of the lined barrels. I have heard some stuff about them so pay attention to that. I would really like a 3" Ordinance gun, that would be fun. Anyways, I am selling my Hotchkiss AT carriage to fund more toys.
The Tredegar is a 2.25" bore and is actually much, much smaller than Napoleon, a Phoenix Ironworks.... or even Mountain Howitzer. So full size is actually quite small.
Do beware of lined barrels, but done right, they are very good. But companies like Steen are doing very, very good castings. Just like originals. The guns to watch out for are stuff like Dixie Gunworks (Fine company) cannons. That are designed for salutes... and they say so on their web site and catalog. Those guns are very brittle and 'coarse' cast iron. Projectiles are a risk. Salute barrels are for.... salutes!
Cheers,
Sirhr
Reviving this for a cool photo…
Found one of my Tredegar shells behind my backstop today! First One I have been able to examine because they go so deep into backstops that I’ve never been able to exhume one.
This punched through 4 layers of tires filled with Staymatt gravel… and was on the bank behind it sitting on leaves. Rifling engaged perfectly.
The shell is 2.25” diameter turned aluminum slug with a hollow tail. Much lighter than original cast iron , so it gets serious velocity.
Didn’t tumble at all… punched through backstop like a knife through butter. I need a better backstop, apparently!
Just a cool find! If I straightened the tail, I could fire it again!!
Cheers, Sirhr
Found one of my Tredegar shells behind my backstop today! First One I have been able to examine because they go so deep into backstops that I’ve never been able to exhume one.
This punched through 4 layers of tires filled with Staymatt gravel… and was on the bank behind it sitting on leaves. Rifling engaged perfectly.
The shell is 2.25” diameter turned aluminum slug with a hollow tail. Much lighter than original cast iron , so it gets serious velocity.
Didn’t tumble at all… punched through backstop like a knife through butter. I need a better backstop, apparently!
Just a cool find! If I straightened the tail, I could fire it again!!
Cheers, Sirhr
you should tape a dollar to it.. to really show the size
I would love to have the design specs. That should work in my 2.31" cannon.
a little kid with a rock tied to his ankle and a wind meter you take the wind speed , distance and time it took you get speed and a little kid that now hates you lol
I will get a ''print" and dimensions posted over the weekend. And a picture for scale.
The only challenge is that I could buy 2.375" bar 'cut off's pretty cheap off eBay before the world went full-retard... It will be a lot more expensive now! Then again, in the world of what it takes to fire cannons... I guess it's just incidental.
Sirhr
I'm almost wondering if I could have a mold machined from the drawing and do Zinc casts?
I think you could... but the cost for a mold and the trouble of molding Zinc... along with the cost of zinc... probably makes turning more economical. But I may be wrong.I'm almost wondering if I could have a mold machined from the drawing and do Zinc casts?
Sirhr
just use a Stopwatch or count, 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi,
Not far off… heavy Civil war cannon is about 1050 fps for a cast iron shell. Lighter gun like a Tredegar Mountain rifle… about 1300.just use a Stopwatch or count, 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi,
A trained crew had a standard of putting a round in a flour barrel, Cold bore, at one mile. A flour barrel at the time was 4’x4’. At Gettysburg, Union troops put rounds through windows on demand at over a mile.
So… yeah. Was slow enough to count off the time. But in the day was not to be trifled with.
Cheers, Sirhr
In all seriousness,
A Labradar on the Arrow, Doppler Mode would probably work, they have a subsonic mode in there, I would use that setting and try it
A Labradar on the Arrow, Doppler Mode would probably work, they have a subsonic mode in there, I would use that setting and try it
PS… any time you want to visit Schloss Nitrocellulose and shoot cannons… Boys Antitank.. Hotchkiss 25mm…just use a Stopwatch or count, 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi,
you name it… Mi casa es su casa. You could do some serious podcasts!
And the steaks and cigars will be world class. The invitation stands open!
Cheers, Sirhr
Hmm,
Cannons to the left, Steaks to the right, Cigars in the front with whiskey in the bottle, interesting
Cannons to the left, Steaks to the right, Cigars in the front with whiskey in the bottle, interesting
Would be a heck of podcast(s) especially if he can talk more about the Hinson rifle project.
@sirhrmechanic , you now have me searching the web for a Tredegar. Although it might be too new for my usual shooting venue, since the fur trade was pretty much done by the War Between the States.
Having crewed a couple of guns at Rendezvoux, I wouldn’t try and use my Ohler 35p for getting MV, but would consider using someone else’s Labradar.
The last gun that I crewed was a 68 cal carronade. Fun to shoot, but we couldn’t tell where the shot was going through the weeds and such.
Having crewed a couple of guns at Rendezvoux, I wouldn’t try and use my Ohler 35p for getting MV, but would consider using someone else’s Labradar.
The last gun that I crewed was a 68 cal carronade. Fun to shoot, but we couldn’t tell where the shot was going through the weeds and such.
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