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Rifle Scopes Good Torque Wrench
- Thread starter kmc0929
- Start date
Re: Good Torque Wrench
I got one of these. Works great. Craftsmen torque wrenches are junk.
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-4-quarter-inch-drive-click-stop-torque-wrench-2696.html
I got one of these. Works great. Craftsmen torque wrenches are junk.
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-4-quarter-inch-drive-click-stop-torque-wrench-2696.html
Re: Good Torque Wrench
Not from sears but I use this for my scope rings and various other projects. http://www.protorquetools.com/Prod-18-1-...5-40_in_lbs.htm
It's exactly the same as a Snapon except its blue and cheaper. CDI makes the torque screwdrivers for Snapon and Precision Instruments makes their torque wrenches.
As for torque wrenches I didn't like the craftsman brand torque wrenches they are offering now. The handles are plastic, torque marking is etched into the plastic, made in Mexico, and are only guaranteed for a year (doesn't include calibration). I currently use the CDI dual unit micrometer torque wrenches they are much more like the old craftsman torque wrenches my dad has and are a lot beefier and all metal. Spend the extra 30-80 bucks and get something that will last a lot longer.
If you have an AICS or plan on getting one the 3/8 10-100 in-lb torque wrench may be a good buy so you can utilize it for 15 in-lb for scope rings and 53in-lbs for the action bolts.
Not from sears but I use this for my scope rings and various other projects. http://www.protorquetools.com/Prod-18-1-...5-40_in_lbs.htm
It's exactly the same as a Snapon except its blue and cheaper. CDI makes the torque screwdrivers for Snapon and Precision Instruments makes their torque wrenches.
As for torque wrenches I didn't like the craftsman brand torque wrenches they are offering now. The handles are plastic, torque marking is etched into the plastic, made in Mexico, and are only guaranteed for a year (doesn't include calibration). I currently use the CDI dual unit micrometer torque wrenches they are much more like the old craftsman torque wrenches my dad has and are a lot beefier and all metal. Spend the extra 30-80 bucks and get something that will last a lot longer.
If you have an AICS or plan on getting one the 3/8 10-100 in-lb torque wrench may be a good buy so you can utilize it for 15 in-lb for scope rings and 53in-lbs for the action bolts.
Re: Good Torque Wrench
Go after the ones from Boris aka Kortic. I have been more than happy with his offerings and he will verify torque settings/calibrate prior to shipping.
Check out the Commercial Sales and Group Buy sections.
Tough to beat the price and you support a good Sniper'shide Vendor....IMO
Guess I type too slow...........+1 for Borka
Go after the ones from Boris aka Kortic. I have been more than happy with his offerings and he will verify torque settings/calibrate prior to shipping.
Check out the Commercial Sales and Group Buy sections.
Tough to beat the price and you support a good Sniper'shide Vendor....IMO
Guess I type too slow...........+1 for Borka
Re: Good Torque Wrench
I have a snapon unit. Two actually, one is a dial indicator 0-75 in-lbs, the other is the digital techwrench 24-240 in-lbs. Got a good deal on then new from the truck so I went for it. Couldnt be happier. Is the cheaper options but for me it works.
I have a snapon unit. Two actually, one is a dial indicator 0-75 in-lbs, the other is the digital techwrench 24-240 in-lbs. Got a good deal on then new from the truck so I went for it. Couldnt be happier. Is the cheaper options but for me it works.
Re: Good Torque Wrench
I've got this one from Wiha:
http://www.wihatools.com/200seri/285vario_s.htm
Mine is the 10-50 inch lb. version and it's fine for bases and rings.
I'd like to have one with a little larger capacity for action screws.
I've got this one from Wiha:
http://www.wihatools.com/200seri/285vario_s.htm
Mine is the 10-50 inch lb. version and it's fine for bases and rings.
I'd like to have one with a little larger capacity for action screws.
Re: Good Torque Wrench
I was really only concerned with one for my action screws so I got a Seekonk through Liberty Optics a couple years ago. However, I'd probably go with the Borka now. Just keep in mind that even high-quality torque wrenches are supposed to be recalibrated periodically. So stay away from the cheap stuff.
I was really only concerned with one for my action screws so I got a Seekonk through Liberty Optics a couple years ago. However, I'd probably go with the Borka now. Just keep in mind that even high-quality torque wrenches are supposed to be recalibrated periodically. So stay away from the cheap stuff.
Re: Good Torque Wrench
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Borka Tools Milspec M3 Sniper Kit is the way to go </div></div>
+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Borka Tools Milspec M3 Sniper Kit is the way to go </div></div>
+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Re: Good Torque Wrench
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nails07</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got one of these. Works great. Craftsmen torque wrenches are junk.
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-4-quarter-inch-drive-click-stop-torque-wrench-2696.html </div></div>
I'll probably install 3 sets of rings and bases in my lifetime, will this work?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nails07</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got one of these. Works great. Craftsmen torque wrenches are junk.
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-4-quarter-inch-drive-click-stop-torque-wrench-2696.html </div></div>
I'll probably install 3 sets of rings and bases in my lifetime, will this work?
Re: Good Torque Wrench
Sure - buy one and find someone with a tq analyzer.........then go from there if you're set on HF.
Or buy it and use it and don't worry about what Tq you are actually using.
Sure - buy one and find someone with a tq analyzer.........then go from there if you're set on HF.
Or buy it and use it and don't worry about what Tq you are actually using.
Re: Good Torque Wrench
I bought a new or as new Snap-On for half price, on ebay. I am sure the long term accuracy should be better than most of what you can buy. I researched the various Snap-On models before I bid. Most satisfied.
However I also bought the Borka, which should be more than adequate for scope mounting. Also they are small and convenient.
I bought a new or as new Snap-On for half price, on ebay. I am sure the long term accuracy should be better than most of what you can buy. I researched the various Snap-On models before I bid. Most satisfied.
However I also bought the Borka, which should be more than adequate for scope mounting. Also they are small and convenient.
Re: Good Torque Wrench
I think the Borka MG3-SRA from Boris is the way to go. I just ordered one. Its perfect, one wrench you can pack around with you in the field, to the range or just in your garage. I had bad luck with the cheap one from Harbor Frieght. I wish I hadn't wasted my money on it. The Borka is a bargain. Boris has amazing customer service.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2186415&page=1
I think the Borka MG3-SRA from Boris is the way to go. I just ordered one. Its perfect, one wrench you can pack around with you in the field, to the range or just in your garage. I had bad luck with the cheap one from Harbor Frieght. I wish I hadn't wasted my money on it. The Borka is a bargain. Boris has amazing customer service.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2186415&page=1
Re: Good Torque Wrench
I am in the process of changing my rings to [censored] rings. They don't require a torque wrench. I carry a LT wrench in my sleeve pocket along with a bore snake and a small bottle of oil. This is convenient and handy; therefore, I'm more likely to check my rings and bore before a shot.
I don't have anything against torque wrenches except that they are expensive and I only have 1. My torque wrench is too big and cumbersome for my pocket. And I am less likely to have it handy when I need it. Like day 3 or 4 of an operation.
I am in the process of changing my rings to [censored] rings. They don't require a torque wrench. I carry a LT wrench in my sleeve pocket along with a bore snake and a small bottle of oil. This is convenient and handy; therefore, I'm more likely to check my rings and bore before a shot.
I don't have anything against torque wrenches except that they are expensive and I only have 1. My torque wrench is too big and cumbersome for my pocket. And I am less likely to have it handy when I need it. Like day 3 or 4 of an operation.
Re: Good Torque Wrench
I can torque from 5 in. lb to 3200 ft. lb I think I have all my need for my gun hobby covered ..LOL
However I have heard good things about the Borka , not going out to buy one but
I can torque from 5 in. lb to 3200 ft. lb I think I have all my need for my gun hobby covered ..LOL
However I have heard good things about the Borka , not going out to buy one but
Re: Good Torque Wrench
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: patrol120</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, the Weaver, from looking at the product photos, is the Borka adjustable re-labeled. It looks nothing like the Wheeler. </div></div>
You're correct. In order to start my torque tools business, I've imported certain quantity of adjustable torgue screwdrivers of this design at the end of 2009. I call them ATD-10x80-CRS (Adjustable Torque driver, 10-80 inch-lbs. range, Continuous Range Settings). They are made by Da Jiun Co. in the city of Taichung, Taiwan, model # 644B, and should not be confused with my own multi torque drivers (MG and other versions), designed, patented and 100% made in the U.S.A.
My version of 644B (ATD-10x80-CRS) includes Borka Tools custom selection of 32 hex (S2 steel) bits, which is not a standard Da Jiun selection. Sometime in the first part of 2010, Weaver started offering for sale what appears to be exactly the same design, but with shorter spindle and different bits selection, with or w/o case, which makes it less or more expensive than Borka's version, depending upon specific configuration. Wheeler FAT wrench was introduced approximately 3 years earlier than both Borka and Weaver adjustable torque screwdrivers, and is different in detailed design, specs and external appearance. I believe it is made in China, as I was not able to find anything that looks like FAT wrench from any of the Taiwanese <span style="text-decoration: underline">manufacturers</span>. Opinions on FAT wrench vary a lot, but if I personally were to purchase anything related to hand tools, and had a choice only between the ones made in Taiwan and China, I would go for Taiwanese made tools w/o slightest hesitation. There is still quite a bit of difference between quality of materials, machining, assembly and QC from Taiwan and China, with a very few exceptions, not applicable to the subject of this thread. I'm certainly not saying that Wheeler FAT is not capable of doing the job or there is something wrong with it in general. I just liked the other design from Da Jiun Co. better, and fully understand why Weaver decided to choose this particular design over, say, Wheeler FAT design.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: patrol120</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, the Weaver, from looking at the product photos, is the Borka adjustable re-labeled. It looks nothing like the Wheeler. </div></div>
You're correct. In order to start my torque tools business, I've imported certain quantity of adjustable torgue screwdrivers of this design at the end of 2009. I call them ATD-10x80-CRS (Adjustable Torque driver, 10-80 inch-lbs. range, Continuous Range Settings). They are made by Da Jiun Co. in the city of Taichung, Taiwan, model # 644B, and should not be confused with my own multi torque drivers (MG and other versions), designed, patented and 100% made in the U.S.A.
My version of 644B (ATD-10x80-CRS) includes Borka Tools custom selection of 32 hex (S2 steel) bits, which is not a standard Da Jiun selection. Sometime in the first part of 2010, Weaver started offering for sale what appears to be exactly the same design, but with shorter spindle and different bits selection, with or w/o case, which makes it less or more expensive than Borka's version, depending upon specific configuration. Wheeler FAT wrench was introduced approximately 3 years earlier than both Borka and Weaver adjustable torque screwdrivers, and is different in detailed design, specs and external appearance. I believe it is made in China, as I was not able to find anything that looks like FAT wrench from any of the Taiwanese <span style="text-decoration: underline">manufacturers</span>. Opinions on FAT wrench vary a lot, but if I personally were to purchase anything related to hand tools, and had a choice only between the ones made in Taiwan and China, I would go for Taiwanese made tools w/o slightest hesitation. There is still quite a bit of difference between quality of materials, machining, assembly and QC from Taiwan and China, with a very few exceptions, not applicable to the subject of this thread. I'm certainly not saying that Wheeler FAT is not capable of doing the job or there is something wrong with it in general. I just liked the other design from Da Jiun Co. better, and fully understand why Weaver decided to choose this particular design over, say, Wheeler FAT design.
Re: Good Torque Wrench
Get the Borka tools torque wrench, works exceptionally well. I've been using it for the last few months on everything i can find that needs to be torqued. Boris has great service! Can't beat it for the price & quality & it fits into your range bag or case.
Get the Borka tools torque wrench, works exceptionally well. I've been using it for the last few months on everything i can find that needs to be torqued. Boris has great service! Can't beat it for the price & quality & it fits into your range bag or case.
Re: Good Torque Wrench
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kmc0929</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nails07</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got one of these. Works great. Craftsmen torque wrenches are junk.
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-4-quarter-inch-drive-click-stop-torque-wrench-2696.html </div></div>
I'll probably install 3 sets of rings and bases in my lifetime, will this work? </div></div>
Just my opinion - this type of torque wrench is NOT good for scope rings or other firearms fasteners. Range of 20-200 inch-lbs. assumes that internal spring can somehow retain its spring rate characteristics in linear pattern from 10% to 100% of available compression, or 1:10 ratio. Even mighty German engineers (just kidding...) can not handle this, Wiha only goes 1:5 - 1:7 max. 1:8 is pretty much the limit of reasonable design, assuming that spring is made by high quality producer. Price of $20 or so tells a story of this tool being made in China for $5 max, which means, lets say, very high probability of lack for any calibration at production stage.
Wheeler FAT, Weaver, Neiko, Borka - all these relatively inexpensive adjustable torque screwdrivers are disproportionally more accurate and less harmful to firearms screws than that HF torque wrench. Using it for scope rings is like using RPG for deer hunting - you can still get some meat to eat, but only if you miss the deer...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kmc0929</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nails07</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got one of these. Works great. Craftsmen torque wrenches are junk.
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-4-quarter-inch-drive-click-stop-torque-wrench-2696.html </div></div>
I'll probably install 3 sets of rings and bases in my lifetime, will this work? </div></div>
Just my opinion - this type of torque wrench is NOT good for scope rings or other firearms fasteners. Range of 20-200 inch-lbs. assumes that internal spring can somehow retain its spring rate characteristics in linear pattern from 10% to 100% of available compression, or 1:10 ratio. Even mighty German engineers (just kidding...) can not handle this, Wiha only goes 1:5 - 1:7 max. 1:8 is pretty much the limit of reasonable design, assuming that spring is made by high quality producer. Price of $20 or so tells a story of this tool being made in China for $5 max, which means, lets say, very high probability of lack for any calibration at production stage.
Wheeler FAT, Weaver, Neiko, Borka - all these relatively inexpensive adjustable torque screwdrivers are disproportionally more accurate and less harmful to firearms screws than that HF torque wrench. Using it for scope rings is like using RPG for deer hunting - you can still get some meat to eat, but only if you miss the deer...
Re: Good Torque Wrench
I haven't got my MG3-SRA yet (it's ordered) but I'd definitley add a BIG <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 17pt"><span style="color: #009900">+1</span></span> </span>for Boris' CS.
I haven't got my MG3-SRA yet (it's ordered) but I'd definitley add a BIG <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 17pt"><span style="color: #009900">+1</span></span> </span>for Boris' CS.
Re: Good Torque Wrench
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Borka Tools Milspec M3 Sniper Kit is the way to go </div></div>
+1 ... Borka Tools has a great kit... everything you will need.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Borka Tools Milspec M3 Sniper Kit is the way to go </div></div>
+1 ... Borka Tools has a great kit... everything you will need.
Re: Good Torque Wrench
I've got a harbor freight torque wrench (ft-lbs) that I bought to apply torque to the nut that holds my lawn mower blade when I replaced it. I'm not impressed with it. It is cheap, hard to read, and the click when you reach the torque you select is not positive. It was made by the same manufacture that makes the in-lbs model. I wouldn't trust them past my lawn tools.
I've got a harbor freight torque wrench (ft-lbs) that I bought to apply torque to the nut that holds my lawn mower blade when I replaced it. I'm not impressed with it. It is cheap, hard to read, and the click when you reach the torque you select is not positive. It was made by the same manufacture that makes the in-lbs model. I wouldn't trust them past my lawn tools.
Re: Good Torque Wrench
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kortik</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: patrol120</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, the Weaver, from looking at the product photos, is the Borka adjustable re-labeled. It looks nothing like the Wheeler. </div></div>
You're correct. In order to start my torque tools business, I've imported certain quantity of adjustable torgue screwdrivers of this design at the end of 2009. I call them ATD-10x80-CRS (Adjustable Torque driver, 10-80 inch-lbs. range, Continuous Range Settings). They are made by Da Jiun Co. in the city of Taichung, Taiwan, model # 644B, and should not be confused with my own multi torque drivers (MG and other versions), designed, patented and 100% made in the U.S.A.
My version of 644B (ATD-10x80-CRS) includes Borka Tools custom selection of 32 hex (S2 steel) bits, which is not a standard Da Jiun selection. Sometime in the first part of 2010, Weaver started offering for sale what appears to be exactly the same design, but with shorter spindle and different bits selection, with or w/o case, which makes it less or more expensive than Borka's version, depending upon specific configuration. Wheeler FAT wrench was introduced approximately 3 years earlier than both Borka and Weaver adjustable torque screwdrivers, and is different in detailed design, specs and external appearance. I believe it is made in China, as I was not able to find anything that looks like FAT wrench from any of the Taiwanese <span style="text-decoration: underline">manufacturers</span>. Opinions on FAT wrench vary a lot, but if I personally were to purchase anything related to hand tools, and had a choice only between the ones made in Taiwan and China, I would go for Taiwanese made tools w/o slightest hesitation. There is still quite a bit of difference between quality of materials, machining, assembly and QC from Taiwan and China, with a very few exceptions, not applicable to the subject of this thread. I'm certainly not saying that Wheeler FAT is not capable of doing the job or there is something wrong with it in general. I just liked the other design from Da Jiun Co. better, and fully understand why Weaver decided to choose this particular design over, say, Wheeler FAT design. </div></div>
Kortik, Had I know this, I would have ordered the wrench from you. I assumed you produced it, or at least imported it, and Weaver bought the wrench from you.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kortik</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: patrol120</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, the Weaver, from looking at the product photos, is the Borka adjustable re-labeled. It looks nothing like the Wheeler. </div></div>
You're correct. In order to start my torque tools business, I've imported certain quantity of adjustable torgue screwdrivers of this design at the end of 2009. I call them ATD-10x80-CRS (Adjustable Torque driver, 10-80 inch-lbs. range, Continuous Range Settings). They are made by Da Jiun Co. in the city of Taichung, Taiwan, model # 644B, and should not be confused with my own multi torque drivers (MG and other versions), designed, patented and 100% made in the U.S.A.
My version of 644B (ATD-10x80-CRS) includes Borka Tools custom selection of 32 hex (S2 steel) bits, which is not a standard Da Jiun selection. Sometime in the first part of 2010, Weaver started offering for sale what appears to be exactly the same design, but with shorter spindle and different bits selection, with or w/o case, which makes it less or more expensive than Borka's version, depending upon specific configuration. Wheeler FAT wrench was introduced approximately 3 years earlier than both Borka and Weaver adjustable torque screwdrivers, and is different in detailed design, specs and external appearance. I believe it is made in China, as I was not able to find anything that looks like FAT wrench from any of the Taiwanese <span style="text-decoration: underline">manufacturers</span>. Opinions on FAT wrench vary a lot, but if I personally were to purchase anything related to hand tools, and had a choice only between the ones made in Taiwan and China, I would go for Taiwanese made tools w/o slightest hesitation. There is still quite a bit of difference between quality of materials, machining, assembly and QC from Taiwan and China, with a very few exceptions, not applicable to the subject of this thread. I'm certainly not saying that Wheeler FAT is not capable of doing the job or there is something wrong with it in general. I just liked the other design from Da Jiun Co. better, and fully understand why Weaver decided to choose this particular design over, say, Wheeler FAT design. </div></div>
Kortik, Had I know this, I would have ordered the wrench from you. I assumed you produced it, or at least imported it, and Weaver bought the wrench from you.
Re: Good Torque Wrench
Patrol,
I have nothing to do with Weaver item, but because it appears to be the same design as my ATD-10x80-CRS, I think they picked up a good one to sell. Da Jiun screwdriver is built mostly from metal, except for the adjustment knob, and has longer spring inside (in comparison with Wheeler FAT), which is theoretically more beneficial for reducing the torque adjustment deviation. I do <span style="font-weight: bold">offer</span> with my ATD what I truly believe to be a real good selection of 32 high quality hex bits, made from S2 steel, and can also supply optional 1/4" square to 3/8" square adapter and 1/2" hex socket with 1/4" square drive, which pretty much covers all needs the user may have to service just about any scope/mount/rifle combo. Otherwise, if you purchased Weaver offering, you did good...
Patrol,
I have nothing to do with Weaver item, but because it appears to be the same design as my ATD-10x80-CRS, I think they picked up a good one to sell. Da Jiun screwdriver is built mostly from metal, except for the adjustment knob, and has longer spring inside (in comparison with Wheeler FAT), which is theoretically more beneficial for reducing the torque adjustment deviation. I do <span style="font-weight: bold">offer</span> with my ATD what I truly believe to be a real good selection of 32 high quality hex bits, made from S2 steel, and can also supply optional 1/4" square to 3/8" square adapter and 1/2" hex socket with 1/4" square drive, which pretty much covers all needs the user may have to service just about any scope/mount/rifle combo. Otherwise, if you purchased Weaver offering, you did good...
Re: Good Torque Wrench
[/quote]Just my opinion - this type of torque wrench is NOT good for scope rings or other firearms fasteners. Range of 20-200 inch-lbs. assumes that internal spring can somehow retain its spring rate characteristics in linear pattern from 10% to 100% of available compression, or 1:10 ratio. Even mighty German engineers (just kidding...) can not handle this, Wiha only goes 1:5 - 1:7 max. 1:8 is pretty much the limit of reasonable design, assuming that spring is made by high quality producer. Price of $20 or so tells a story of this tool being made in China for $5 max, which means, lets say, very high probability of lack for any calibration at production stage.
Wheeler FAT, Weaver, Neiko, Borka - all these relatively inexpensive adjustable torque screwdrivers are disproportionally more accurate and less harmful to firearms screws than that HF torque wrench. Using it for scope rings is like using RPG for deer hunting - you can still get some meat to eat, but only if you miss the deer...[/quote]
ok so first of all let me say that I personally would not be buying any tooling
from HF
but you seem to be saying that this type of torque wrench is unsuitable
for use as the further away from centre of range you go the more error
you get well you are right.. witch is why when you buy torque wrenches you get them overlapping in adjustment
however that error on mine is guaranteed to be under 4% and my torque wrenches are sent out every 12 month or sooner if I think there is a reason
to be tested if they are out of spec they get replaced , witch has never needed to happen yet thank fully because these things cost alot of $$
i.e 1/4 drive was about A$500 if I remember correctly
I do use these tool to work on million's of dollar's worth of machine's and have alot of QC to go threw including random tool checks
I have no problem using what I already have on my gun's
if you already got good quality tooling use it
. Dave
[/quote]Just my opinion - this type of torque wrench is NOT good for scope rings or other firearms fasteners. Range of 20-200 inch-lbs. assumes that internal spring can somehow retain its spring rate characteristics in linear pattern from 10% to 100% of available compression, or 1:10 ratio. Even mighty German engineers (just kidding...) can not handle this, Wiha only goes 1:5 - 1:7 max. 1:8 is pretty much the limit of reasonable design, assuming that spring is made by high quality producer. Price of $20 or so tells a story of this tool being made in China for $5 max, which means, lets say, very high probability of lack for any calibration at production stage.
Wheeler FAT, Weaver, Neiko, Borka - all these relatively inexpensive adjustable torque screwdrivers are disproportionally more accurate and less harmful to firearms screws than that HF torque wrench. Using it for scope rings is like using RPG for deer hunting - you can still get some meat to eat, but only if you miss the deer...[/quote]
ok so first of all let me say that I personally would not be buying any tooling
from HF
but you seem to be saying that this type of torque wrench is unsuitable
for use as the further away from centre of range you go the more error
you get well you are right.. witch is why when you buy torque wrenches you get them overlapping in adjustment
however that error on mine is guaranteed to be under 4% and my torque wrenches are sent out every 12 month or sooner if I think there is a reason
to be tested if they are out of spec they get replaced , witch has never needed to happen yet thank fully because these things cost alot of $$
i.e 1/4 drive was about A$500 if I remember correctly
I do use these tool to work on million's of dollar's worth of machine's and have alot of QC to go threw including random tool checks
I have no problem using what I already have on my gun's
if you already got good quality tooling use it
. Dave
Re: Good Torque Wrench
Borka is some real NASA stuff. One tool to do it all, save space and have it be CORRECT?
Yes, please.
Borka is some real NASA stuff. One tool to do it all, save space and have it be CORRECT?
Yes, please.
Re: Good Torque Wrench
Dbateman,
I was talking about HF tool, so I guess we're on the same page here. $5 torque wrench with 1:10 adjustment ratio - so, I bet I do not need to go further to speculate how accurate such gizmo may be...
In your case using high quality tools, which <span style="text-decoration: underline">must</span> be calibrated after certain period of time no matter if they are used or not (your company ISO compliance policy) - I can perfectly understand that. I also understand that 95% of the precision shooters does not have this capability to use industrial grade tools, and
I bet, 99.999% of them have no interest and money to comply with ISO 9000/9001 etc... requirements. Then, what kicks in is the common sense, which I always try to follow while designing my tools. If tools are not used a lot, calibration is something that may not be needed at all, but often dictated by whatever procedures companies try to comply with... I bet if you do work on $$$$$$$$$$$$ machines, they want you to have dated sticker attached to your wrench. I got 30 years in mechanical engineering, I think I've seen enough...
On top of everything, above mentioned HF torque wrench, or any other wrench of identical design, even if it costs $500, is simply not suitable for low torque applications like scope rings and action screws - wrench "release" angle is too small and wrench is too bulky and heavy. There is a reason most shooters use either fixed torque T-handles or adjustable torque screwdrivers with generous "release" angles for this kind of work. But of course, you can certainly use that "click" lever, it's not my business. You can also shave with the high quality axe, if shaver is not available.
But, I'm certainly glad you're happy with what you have, and with consideration to your background, I'm sure you do the right stuff.
Dbateman,
I was talking about HF tool, so I guess we're on the same page here. $5 torque wrench with 1:10 adjustment ratio - so, I bet I do not need to go further to speculate how accurate such gizmo may be...
In your case using high quality tools, which <span style="text-decoration: underline">must</span> be calibrated after certain period of time no matter if they are used or not (your company ISO compliance policy) - I can perfectly understand that. I also understand that 95% of the precision shooters does not have this capability to use industrial grade tools, and
I bet, 99.999% of them have no interest and money to comply with ISO 9000/9001 etc... requirements. Then, what kicks in is the common sense, which I always try to follow while designing my tools. If tools are not used a lot, calibration is something that may not be needed at all, but often dictated by whatever procedures companies try to comply with... I bet if you do work on $$$$$$$$$$$$ machines, they want you to have dated sticker attached to your wrench. I got 30 years in mechanical engineering, I think I've seen enough...
On top of everything, above mentioned HF torque wrench, or any other wrench of identical design, even if it costs $500, is simply not suitable for low torque applications like scope rings and action screws - wrench "release" angle is too small and wrench is too bulky and heavy. There is a reason most shooters use either fixed torque T-handles or adjustable torque screwdrivers with generous "release" angles for this kind of work. But of course, you can certainly use that "click" lever, it's not my business. You can also shave with the high quality axe, if shaver is not available.
But, I'm certainly glad you're happy with what you have, and with consideration to your background, I'm sure you do the right stuff.
Re: Good Torque Wrench
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Driftwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the Borka MG3-SRA from Boris is the way to go. I just ordered one. Its perfect, one wrench you can pack around with you in the field, to the range or just in your garage. I had bad luck with the cheap one from Harbor Frieght. I wish I hadn't wasted my money on it. The Borka is a bargain. Boris has amazing customer service.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2186415&page=1 </div></div>
Thanks for the link. I was able to get my order in and pick up one of the last kits.
I can't wait to get it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Driftwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the Borka MG3-SRA from Boris is the way to go. I just ordered one. Its perfect, one wrench you can pack around with you in the field, to the range or just in your garage. I had bad luck with the cheap one from Harbor Frieght. I wish I hadn't wasted my money on it. The Borka is a bargain. Boris has amazing customer service.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2186415&page=1 </div></div>
Thanks for the link. I was able to get my order in and pick up one of the last kits.
I can't wait to get it.
Re: Good Torque Wrench
kortikyes we are on the same page
I do have other options for torquing fasteners
yes we have to have sticker's on all torque measuring instruments and measuring tool's
I was just saying run what you got
but make sure you buy the best you can
kortikyes we are on the same page
I do have other options for torquing fasteners
yes we have to have sticker's on all torque measuring instruments and measuring tool's
I was just saying run what you got
but make sure you buy the best you can
Re: Good Torque Wrench
kortikyes
I am not saying you are wrong and I am right so please don't take it like that
I do not have a problem with you tools as I have no experience with them
I am interested in what you have to say regarding this subject though
just that I cant see the difference in torquing bolts in a tranny control group
or ring's on my rifle
if you would like to go in to pm so we could have a talk abut it , if not that's ok
I would like to know what you think , good info on this subject can be hard to find
I am not trying to be a smart ass
. Dave
kortikyes
I am not saying you are wrong and I am right so please don't take it like that
I do not have a problem with you tools as I have no experience with them
I am interested in what you have to say regarding this subject though
just that I cant see the difference in torquing bolts in a tranny control group
or ring's on my rifle
if you would like to go in to pm so we could have a talk abut it , if not that's ok
I would like to know what you think , good info on this subject can be hard to find
I am not trying to be a smart ass
. Dave
Re: Good Torque Wrench
Since we are talking ISO standards, does anyone here have their electronic balance scales checked and calibrated by an accredited service person?
LOL just kidding.
I appreciate ISO standards but at the same time I hate companies that over emphasise on quality to the point where the cost and effort for quality far exceeds that of the work, but ends up adding to the total cost of the product when its really not needed.
My company spends hundreds of thousands per year on calibrations and wank on NON CRITICAL equipment, yet staff get paid like crap.
end of rant
Since we are talking ISO standards, does anyone here have their electronic balance scales checked and calibrated by an accredited service person?
LOL just kidding.
I appreciate ISO standards but at the same time I hate companies that over emphasise on quality to the point where the cost and effort for quality far exceeds that of the work, but ends up adding to the total cost of the product when its really not needed.
My company spends hundreds of thousands per year on calibrations and wank on NON CRITICAL equipment, yet staff get paid like crap.
end of rant
Re: Good Torque Wrench
Dave,
No offence taken whatsoever, you didn't say anything bad or upsetting to me...
While I can't arque that "torqueing fasteners" is in principle the same (in nature) physical process, equipment to perform it should be desirably optimized for specific application and tailored to realities of the market. Borka multi torque driver is 4 ounces in weight ( 6 ounces with specialized T.A.B. GEAR pouch) and barely larger than the Sharpie marker. It was designed to be carried around with ease, provide torque otput accuracy generally acceptable for firearms fasteners (+/-4%), can be switched to one of available 12 pre-set torque settings in a couple of seconds (and in low light conditions), and built to last reasonable amount of time w/o need to worry about "calibration".
As we already touched the essence of modern day calibration idea, it becomes obvious that the need for calibration in certain cases is somewhat more formal than practical, and, in my opinion, should not be regarded as a must to perform on a regular basis, when dealing with firearms.
Borka tool was also designed to be as simple as possible for function, durability and production cost reasons, and has 90 degree release angle, which makes it also easy to use. So, in my opinion, it is optimized for what it is intended to be used for. In comparison, the tool you're refering to does not offer these features, except may be, also being accurate enough, if you do your part... Therefore, in my opinion, it not optimized for the application, although it can also be used for the same application, assuming that it has a suitable torque adjustment range.
In addition of having generally desirable torque range, Borka tool is a FIXED type torque wrench, which is better by design for <span style="text-decoration: underline">repeatability</span> of torque settings as opposed to adjustable torque wrench, where repeatability depends on the skills and sharp eyes of the tool operator. Torque repeatability, in my opinion, is more important for precision long range shooter than absolute torque accuracy, which is supposetly verified by regular calibration procedures. Regular calibration procedures add to the cost of the tool ownership and therefore, not a desirable feature for the individual user with pre-determined budget.
Parts of precision rifle, as any other precision mechanism, will deflect differently if repeatability of torque application is not reasonably consistent, and we all know it will likely affect POI relative to POA, particular at long distances.
Borka tool also has a very considerable cost advantage relative to the tool you're using, which is generally welcomed by most individual users.
That's a brief summary of what I think...
Best to you,
Boris
Dave,
No offence taken whatsoever, you didn't say anything bad or upsetting to me...
While I can't arque that "torqueing fasteners" is in principle the same (in nature) physical process, equipment to perform it should be desirably optimized for specific application and tailored to realities of the market. Borka multi torque driver is 4 ounces in weight ( 6 ounces with specialized T.A.B. GEAR pouch) and barely larger than the Sharpie marker. It was designed to be carried around with ease, provide torque otput accuracy generally acceptable for firearms fasteners (+/-4%), can be switched to one of available 12 pre-set torque settings in a couple of seconds (and in low light conditions), and built to last reasonable amount of time w/o need to worry about "calibration".
As we already touched the essence of modern day calibration idea, it becomes obvious that the need for calibration in certain cases is somewhat more formal than practical, and, in my opinion, should not be regarded as a must to perform on a regular basis, when dealing with firearms.
Borka tool was also designed to be as simple as possible for function, durability and production cost reasons, and has 90 degree release angle, which makes it also easy to use. So, in my opinion, it is optimized for what it is intended to be used for. In comparison, the tool you're refering to does not offer these features, except may be, also being accurate enough, if you do your part... Therefore, in my opinion, it not optimized for the application, although it can also be used for the same application, assuming that it has a suitable torque adjustment range.
In addition of having generally desirable torque range, Borka tool is a FIXED type torque wrench, which is better by design for <span style="text-decoration: underline">repeatability</span> of torque settings as opposed to adjustable torque wrench, where repeatability depends on the skills and sharp eyes of the tool operator. Torque repeatability, in my opinion, is more important for precision long range shooter than absolute torque accuracy, which is supposetly verified by regular calibration procedures. Regular calibration procedures add to the cost of the tool ownership and therefore, not a desirable feature for the individual user with pre-determined budget.
Parts of precision rifle, as any other precision mechanism, will deflect differently if repeatability of torque application is not reasonably consistent, and we all know it will likely affect POI relative to POA, particular at long distances.
Borka tool also has a very considerable cost advantage relative to the tool you're using, which is generally welcomed by most individual users.
That's a brief summary of what I think...
Best to you,
Boris
Re: Good Torque Wrench
For a preset torque wrench, there is nothing wrong with the Seekonk T-handles. Back in the day, we sold hundreds of sets and they just work. They have a great track record of accuracy and ruggedness. The TSQ-75 variable torsion wrench I do find a bit unwieldy, and it's not my favorite. I see the Borka is the flavor of the month and that's fine. I've never seen these up close but they look like a nifty product that offers advantages over the screwdriver or torsion type wrenches on the market.
I do wonder about the 2-piece design (Murphy's law, if you lose one piece....) and it "looks" a bit unwieldy to use. No question the design is quite logical and brilliant.
Still, the good 'ol Seekonk works and is built like a tank, and needs to be mentioned here as a good torque wrench. Made here, serviced here, and built to last. It's also ergonomic and very fast to use.
For a preset torque wrench, there is nothing wrong with the Seekonk T-handles. Back in the day, we sold hundreds of sets and they just work. They have a great track record of accuracy and ruggedness. The TSQ-75 variable torsion wrench I do find a bit unwieldy, and it's not my favorite. I see the Borka is the flavor of the month and that's fine. I've never seen these up close but they look like a nifty product that offers advantages over the screwdriver or torsion type wrenches on the market.
I do wonder about the 2-piece design (Murphy's law, if you lose one piece....) and it "looks" a bit unwieldy to use. No question the design is quite logical and brilliant.
Still, the good 'ol Seekonk works and is built like a tank, and needs to be mentioned here as a good torque wrench. Made here, serviced here, and built to last. It's also ergonomic and very fast to use.
Re: Good Torque Wrench
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For a preset torque wrench, there is nothing wrong with the Seekonk T-handles. Back in the day, we sold hundreds of sets and they just work. They have a great track record of accuracy and ruggedness. The TSQ-75 variable torsion wrench I do find a bit unwieldy, and it's not my favorite. I see the Borka is the flavor of the month and that's fine. I've never seen these up close but they look like a nifty product that offers advantages over the screwdriver or torsion type wrenches on the market.
I do wonder about the 2-piece design (Murphy's law, if you lose one piece....) and it "looks" a bit unwieldy to use. No question the design is quite logical and brilliant.
Still, the good 'ol Seekonk works and is built like a tank, and needs to be mentioned here as a good torque wrench. Made here, serviced here, and built to last. It's also ergonomic and very fast to use. </div></div>
Borka torque driver is also made here (Michigan). So far, I had no chance to service any of them, but will take care of business if needed. My tool is not a tank, as it supposed to be carried by the user in a field, and minimum weight (1/3 of Seekonk) was one of the design objectives. Seekonk T-handle, without doubt, is an excellent product and well suited for firearms maintenance, scope mounting, etc. It is very accurate and mechanically strong. One fixed torque setting is probably not a big deal if that is what the user considers to be sufficient for the application. I have great respect for the quality of Seekonk products.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For a preset torque wrench, there is nothing wrong with the Seekonk T-handles. Back in the day, we sold hundreds of sets and they just work. They have a great track record of accuracy and ruggedness. The TSQ-75 variable torsion wrench I do find a bit unwieldy, and it's not my favorite. I see the Borka is the flavor of the month and that's fine. I've never seen these up close but they look like a nifty product that offers advantages over the screwdriver or torsion type wrenches on the market.
I do wonder about the 2-piece design (Murphy's law, if you lose one piece....) and it "looks" a bit unwieldy to use. No question the design is quite logical and brilliant.
Still, the good 'ol Seekonk works and is built like a tank, and needs to be mentioned here as a good torque wrench. Made here, serviced here, and built to last. It's also ergonomic and very fast to use. </div></div>
Borka torque driver is also made here (Michigan). So far, I had no chance to service any of them, but will take care of business if needed. My tool is not a tank, as it supposed to be carried by the user in a field, and minimum weight (1/3 of Seekonk) was one of the design objectives. Seekonk T-handle, without doubt, is an excellent product and well suited for firearms maintenance, scope mounting, etc. It is very accurate and mechanically strong. One fixed torque setting is probably not a big deal if that is what the user considers to be sufficient for the application. I have great respect for the quality of Seekonk products.
Re: Good Torque Wrench
Boris,
I've heard nothing but great things about you and your product, and your reply reinforces that. Seems to me you got your stuff together.
Did you serve as a Russian Naval Officer...from which the Hide handle is derived? Or are you just an enthusiast for the kortik?
Scott
Boris,
I've heard nothing but great things about you and your product, and your reply reinforces that. Seems to me you got your stuff together.
Did you serve as a Russian Naval Officer...from which the Hide handle is derived? Or are you just an enthusiast for the kortik?
Scott
Re: Good Torque Wrench
Scott,
Hey, you picked up "kortik" thingie exactly right. Good for you... No, I did not serve as officer in Russian Navy and was never entitled to wear one, although I've consumed some vodka with some of them in my younger years.
As you know, kortik is pretty sharp at the point but typically does not have sharp enough edges, so it kind of how I see my own personality - some good, some bad...
Best to you,
Boris
Scott,
Hey, you picked up "kortik" thingie exactly right. Good for you... No, I did not serve as officer in Russian Navy and was never entitled to wear one, although I've consumed some vodka with some of them in my younger years.
As you know, kortik is pretty sharp at the point but typically does not have sharp enough edges, so it kind of how I see my own personality - some good, some bad...
Best to you,
Boris
Re: Good Torque Wrench
Another vote for Wiha Tools.
http://www.wihatools.com/200seri/285vario_s.htm
It's a bit pricey but you get what you pay for. Beware of a toque wrench with a large range. An accurate torque wrench should have high resolution and is therefore likely to have a limited range.
Another vote for Wiha Tools.
http://www.wihatools.com/200seri/285vario_s.htm
It's a bit pricey but you get what you pay for. Beware of a toque wrench with a large range. An accurate torque wrench should have high resolution and is therefore likely to have a limited range.
Re: Good Torque Wrench
Theodore,
That is the really brilliant design of scope rings you've got.
You can probably even make the same design with a single clamping screw for the ring. Not sure if it would easy, considering potential even pressure distribution issues, but it feels like it would add some positives.
Very impressed.
Boris
Theodore,
That is the really brilliant design of scope rings you've got.
You can probably even make the same design with a single clamping screw for the ring. Not sure if it would easy, considering potential even pressure distribution issues, but it feels like it would add some positives.
Very impressed.
Boris
Re: Good Torque Wrench
Boris, received my SRA kit in the mail today. Im very impressed at everything... the price, the size, the convenience... just fantastic
Im glad I didnt go out and purchase a monster of a torque wrench, as this is just so much better.
Thank you
Boris, received my SRA kit in the mail today. Im very impressed at everything... the price, the size, the convenience... just fantastic
Im glad I didnt go out and purchase a monster of a torque wrench, as this is just so much better.
Thank you
Re: Good Torque Wrench
+1 Got mine on Saturday - 5 days door to door from the point of order to the UK. Great job!
As a comparison last stuff I ordered from Midway UK (which is around 30 miles from my house) took 10 days even though it was all in stock when ordered!
Thanks Boris!
+1 Got mine on Saturday - 5 days door to door from the point of order to the UK. Great job!
As a comparison last stuff I ordered from Midway UK (which is around 30 miles from my house) took 10 days even though it was all in stock when ordered!
Thanks Boris!
