Good video on spotter/shooter communication?

[demolitionman]

I know there are some decent articles to be read about the topic. Frank has covered it here and there on various podcasts as I've listened to nearly all of his more than once. I was a member of the online training access for a few years long long ago....as well. Anyways:

I'm having a bit of an issue with a long time shooting buddy, concerning spotter communication. It seems to kind of piss him off when I try to give him some constructive criticism at the range concerning how he communicates spotting for me. I honestly don't really need his help, his calls get me all sorts of fucked up but I figured it would be good practice for him to spot and help make correction calls as I personally think I learned more about shooting long range by spotting than anything and as such my thought is he will learn his reticle quicker and learn to make his own corrections when needed. Enter the problem: you all know what I'm about to say....he's long winded as fuck, saying shit like "your way low on the left corner of plate, then your point 3 mills too high, or you just shot way above the plate, like way, like uhhh 6 tenths high come down 6 tenths but your a little left too so come left some".... I can't really describe it proper but you know the type of deal Im talking about. If any of you know of an awesome online video of a good spotter shooter team talking concisely without any extra bullshit post it up. I want to share it with him. He is kind of the type of guy who will learn better from someone else as he just can't fucking stand me trying to help him with shooting technique, as his Ego I think gets in his way. We are Currently just working on correction communication more than target acquisition.

I've always worked like this: I tell the spotter : I'm on target. Soon as I run the bolt the spotter knows I'm less than 3 seconds from firing so they need to be on too. I fire then Spotter says " up 2 tenths, left 2 tenths. Then I say "sending" and take a shot in less than 3 seconds...with which spotter will say impact or make a correction for me by saying nothing more than "left 2 tenths up 1 tenth". None of this "well it looks to me like maybe your still high and your way left maybe the wind picked up a bit dial about 3 tenths up and a few tenths down" bullshit. I'd love to revist a podcast and re learn good long range spotter/shooter communication....you know what the further I got with this post I realized I need to go find some elr/ulr comps showing their communication. I bet its what I'm looking for to get my point across to my friend.

 

[PAYDIRT]

Been there before.

 

[FishDr]

Kinda ironic how long that post was.
But I feel your pain - been through this a number of times with newer guys, and I have to concentrate on my own comms to ensure I’m being concise yet descriptive and clear. More of an issue for me in acquisition than correction.

 

[CoryT]

Funny you should ask, we are in process of making vids for class here at Gunsite. It should work like this.

Shooter: "On target" - This indicates you have a position, dope is dialed, you are ready to go.
Spotter: "Spotter Ready" - The spotter has a wind call ready and HAS POSITIONED THE SCOPE ON THAT HOLD!
Shooter: "Shooter Ready" - Said as you release your breath to natural respiritory pause, slack out of the trigger, centered on target
Spotter: " Right point 7" - Said on the y in shooter ready. Direction first then distance, elevation then windage.
Shooter: Presses the trigger on that hold, no pause, no comment, just friggin shoot! On the n in seven I should hear BANG, then, keeping the target in the scope run the bolt as fast as you can maintin position
Spotter: "Up point 4, right point 5" - or whatever correction he sees. Don't tell the shooter where he hit, just give the correct hold
Shooter: Hold that and shoot again. Want to destroy training? Ignore your spotter and hold what you want.

We have a whole class on this as it seems the hardest thing for people to master. People want to add all sorts of verbage, screw up the sequence, then try to do math while looking at the impact.

Important points.

Shooter: Don't say ready if you are not ready to shoot. You need to be centered on target, NPA checked, dope dialed, fully loaded and slack out of the trigger. Shoot on the call, don't wait, press as soon as you move to the call. Follow through, maintain the target in the FOV and RUN THE BOLT!

Spotter: Don't say ready if you are still thinking about the call. If it's going to take you a few moments say 'Standby' so the shooter knows you need some time. State the call and noting but the call. Direction first, then distance (with one exception), Elevation then windage. The Wind call is the command to shoot. Not "Send it', 'Fire'... Position the spotter on the target exactly as you would if you were making the shot. Now watch trace/impact. Move that onto the target and call it, instantly, nothing else. If you dally, try to do math, or give stupid info like 'Dude, that was WAY low', all you are doing is giving the wind time to change. (How much is a WAY, exactly?)

Standard wind calls.
No Value or Center- hold center
Favor Left/Right/High/Low- The exception to direction first. Hold halfway between the center and the specified edge.
Left/Right/Top/Bottom edge - Crosshair right on the edge of the target
Left/Right /Up/Down Mil/MOA value - Used once the crosshair is off the edge of the target. Use decimal format, not' Left one half'. When you said one I moved 1 mil and now need to move back, not good. 'Left Point five', 'Up one point two'. If you give hundredths Walt will shoot you. Go ahead, tell me you can hold 1.22.

The spotter need to do some target evaluation before the shot. The MINIMUM correction is half the width of the target. I can't tell you how many times someone will nudge a wind call by .1 on a target that is .5 wide. If you scrapped paint off the edge you need AT LEAST .3 more wind. If you called 'Left point eight', then say 'Left point nine' I begin to wonder if you actually were awake during the lecture.

If we get vids processed anytime soon I'll post them. Still working on getting displays in the classroom where you can actually see trace so they have some value, right now the projectors probably give you cataracts.

 

[Supersum1]

Not a video, but @TheGerman has a great write-up for this. Almost identical to @CoryT's post with additional scenarios the shooter/spotter team may run into. Shoot me a PM and I'll forward it to you if you're intersted.