Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or bibs

[Woodlanddude]

Heres the deal. My rocky quad parka and pants started leaking on me last year after 5 years of use. They always seemed to leak a little around the seams after 1/2 day or so of deluge. Should I get myself to e-bay to buy the new marpat APECS parka/pants/liners, or is there a better solution out there in the form of stuff such as cabela's outfitter 3 in 1 parka and bibs on sale currently. I know some loved the previous gen 2 ECWCS system stuff, but several guys told me they leaked after a good soaking as well. All experienced opinions appreciated. Temps here vary 0-70 when I would consider these crucial and wet snow and fairly heavy rain can occur. Thanks!

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or bibs

A new Gumby Suit is the only thing I have seen that wont leak after a full day downpour. However you will usually be damp from your own perspiration anyway.

I still use my Gen 2 ECWCS parka and a set of cheap coated nylon pants. Works for me in the really nasty stuff. A fleece liner keeps you from getting that "sticky" feeling.

 

[tlsmith22]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or bibs

cabelas guide wear, the best I have ever worn.

 

[45.308]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or bibs

Believe it or not, you must keep Gore-Tex's parent fabric dry for the Gtex to work. If the parent outer fabric gets wet, this will allow water to seep in. Body dirt can clog the pours of GTex letting water in. I would wash your stuff in GWax, rinse 2-3 times, wash in Gwax DWR then dry on low heat for a few minutes in the dryer. Basically you want to wax the outer fabric like you would your car so water beads up.

I prefer Gwax over Nikwax, saw some test data that Gwax works better with most PH levels in city water here in the US. Probably just that, data but it made me think.

The problem with seams leaking, it may leak 5 inches from where you feel and see it leak. The water sinks along the seam to find its way.

Once worn, its impossible or very expensive to re-tape so most companies just send a new jacket.

Gtex works best if you have a pressure difference between inside mirco climate and the outer climate. Gtex works best in cool dry weather that allows body vapor to get pushed / sink through the fabric. If the outer air or fabric is warm / damp, it will not sink body vapor through. If your body is working, this can help change the micro climate pushing vapor through.

The best is Lowe Alpine Ceramic but it cost more than Gtex but was phenomenal in the back country out performing Gtex by a wide margin. But cost and lack of advertising, Gtex squashed them.

Rubberized is the only true waterproofing and if you have a very well designed garment, you can keep just as dry inside in the right climate as Gtex...chimney effect that allows dry cool air from down low to get sucked up though / under the garment out the top and areas designed for this, same way Gtex works but instead of through the fabric it goes across the body and actually works better than Gtex if the garment is well designed. Wearing a half/half, you feel it distinctly. The Patagonia stuff in Alaska back country did a better job at keeping the body micro climate stable than Gtex. But, Gtex has loads of cash and superb advertising. I sat through a Gtex siminar, kind of funny to see the reps show up in suits, long winded Power Point, feeding us steaks with a bunch of fleece wearing outdoor types. Gtex has loads of cash to feed you what ever they want you to believe, after years in the back country, it does not work as advertised and there are much better stuff out there.

I prefer Schoeller dynamic soft shell and layer over it a very light rubber coated rain suit.

Most of this kit is all sewn in the same shops in Asia. Just because it has one brand name on it, it comes form the same shop as them all.

Good luck

 

[Koshy]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or bibs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 45.308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Believe it or not, you must keep Gore-Tex's parent fabric dry for the Gtex to work. If the parent outer fabric gets wet, this will allow water to seep in. Body dirt can clog the pours of GTex letting water in. I would wash your stuff in GWax, rinse 2-3 times, wash in Gwax DWR then dry on low heat for a few minutes in the dryer. Basically you want to wax the outer fabric like you would your car so water beads up.

I prefer Gwax over Nikwax, saw some test data that Gwax works better with most PH levels in city water here in the US. Probably just that, data but it made me think.

The problem with seams leaking, it may leak 5 inches from where you feel and see it leak. The water sinks along the seam to find its way.

Once worn, its impossible or very expensive to re-tape so most companies just send a new jacket.

Gtex works best if you have a pressure difference between inside mirco climate and the outer climate. Gtex works best in cool dry weather that allows body vapor to get pushed / sink through the fabric. If the outer air or fabric is warm / damp, it will not sink body vapor through. If your body is working, this can help change the micro climate pushing vapor through.

The best is Lowe Alpine Ceramic but it cost more than Gtex but was phenomenal in the back country out performing Gtex by a wide margin. But cost and lack of advertising, Gtex squashed them.

Rubberized is the only true waterproofing and if you have a very well designed garment, you can keep just as dry inside in the right climate as Gtex...chimney effect that allows dry cool air from down low to get sucked up though / under the garment out the top and areas designed for this, same way Gtex works but instead of through the fabric it goes across the body and actually works better than Gtex if the garment is well designed. Wearing a half/half, you feel it distinctly. The Patagonia stuff in Alaska back country did a better job at keeping the body micro climate stable than Gtex. But, Gtex has loads of cash and superb advertising. I sat through a Gtex siminar, kind of funny to see the reps show up in suits, long winded Power Point, feeding us steaks with a bunch of fleece wearing outdoor types. Gtex has loads of cash to feed you what ever they want you to believe, after years in the back country, it does not work as advertised and there are much better stuff out there.

I prefer Schoeller dynamic soft shell and layer over it a very light rubber coated rain suit.

Most of this kit is all sewn in the same shops in Asia. Just because it has one brand name on it, it comes form the same shop as them all.

Good luck </div></div>

I have heard really good things about RipStop when it comes to the wet, any comments?

Thanks,
- Koshy

 

[Woodlanddude]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or bibs

Thanks for the advice so far guys. Can anyone who has used them in some bad weather comment specifically on the the new APECS issue pants and parka to compare/rate it to other stuff(gen 2, or commercial). I am looking hard at the price point if it as good. (Tacticoolness matters not to me, but the price of USGI has always allowed me to supplement my commercial gear when $ is tight such as now) The patagonia may end up being a seperate purchase for work gear later this year as funds allow, so thank you for that advice, it looks like good stuff! This round will also be double duty for hunting remote areas(turkey this spring, deer next fall/winter) where I need to stay comfortable throught the nasty stuff because it takes so long to get out once you are there. I'm still watching, and will be buying something this week.

 

[propulsionclimbing]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or bibs

If you want camo patterns, the Sitka stuff is pricey but very good. They make a 3-layer gore-tex shell that is really nice. If you want absolute rain and snow proof stuff, definitely go with the 3 layer gore-tex. If you don't care about camo patterns, Arcteryx is top of the line and make a lot of great 3-layer gore-tex products.

 

[XOR]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or b

I think Goretex stinks. It's noisy for hunting purposes and will start letting water pass through in sustained rains. Once it gets wet on the outside, it stops breathing so you lose that edge as well.

Helly Hansen Impertech beats the snot out of Goretex. It's rubberized fabric but it won't ever leak and you can ventilate it fine. It's also very tough and, for hunters, very quiet when moving. You can pack it down pretty small as well and get it oversized to layer over your warmer clothes. Also, it's cheap so you can wear it out and not worry about the cost. The stuff takes a beating though and I've yet to wear out my suit after some hard use and lots of hiking in very wet and cold conditions.

I live in a very wet area of the US and never wear Goretex any more. It has let me down too many times. I'll use quick drying synthetics with the Impertech for heavy downpours. I'll also wear a softshell for most hiking and lighter rains and put on the Helly Hansen gear when the rain is turning nasty. The other nice thing about Impertech is it is absolutely wind proof and makes an excellent cold weather outer over warmer insulating layers.

Impertech (or Impertech II as it's now called) is available in many colors and patterns. Most major outfitters like Cabela's carries it. It's a far better deal and much better performer than any breathable membrane rain gear you can get. These all-in-one fabrics never perform as well as purpose built materials. Just buy dedicated rain gear and you will stay dry and warm when you need it.

 

[Pat M]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or b

I've used the Mad Dog parka for many years hunting (8+) in cold, some rain and wet snow. It is a great jacket, the water sits at the bottom when it is soaked but not a big deal if you've got on your gortex pants, And if it gets really bad you better have your gaiters on.

 

[Bobcape]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or b

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've used the Mad Dog parka for many years hunting (8+) in cold, some rain and wet snow. It is a great jacket, the water sits at the bottom when it is soaked but not a big deal if you've got on your gortex pants, <span style="color: #FF0000">And if it gets really bad you better have your gaiters on. </span></div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'"> <span style="font-size: 11pt">
That is correct, especially in deep, wet snow.

Bob
</span> </span>

 

[chad3]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or b

As said above, I've worked enough construction to tell you that nothing beats rubber suits when it is downpouring. That said, you can get away with most gore-tex for plenty of the time. Make sure you keep it clean and retreat it every now and then and you should be good to go.

 

[Woodlanddude]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or b

Thanks for the consensus on Gore Tex guys. I guess not what I wanted to hear, but the truth is not always is it? I will be getting some Gwax to check out on the gore tex I use and looking into some Helly Hanson gear for the price. +1 on gaiters I have a good handmade waterproof set with 1000 denier on the outside. They don't leave my truck unless I'm wearing them.

 

[chad3]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or b

I love HH, but the Carhartts are good to go for the price. Just another angle for you to go.
Chad

 

[XOR]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or b

Carhartts also are durable.

There is a British company called "Peter Storm" that sells really good stuff as well. It is rubberized, but they claim breathable. I own a set I use for hunting as well in British DPM and it is comparable to the Hansen. It won't let you get wet and I've been in some stinking downpours with it on. It too blows away Goretex. Some very good bowhunters I know only wear Peter Storm because it is quiet and won't get you wet. Although I admit my HH gear is about as quiet as well and works just as well. IMO.

Their distribution in the US is really bad, but they run an E-Bay store with some stock and will ship quickly for a good price:

http://stores.eBay.com/Peter-Storm-Store?refid=store

They used to make a brown version of DPM which is a great pattern if you can find it. The Green is also nice.

Helly Hansen also has outlet stores if you are near one. I picked up my set of OD pants and jacket for less than $80 if I recall. A great deal for really tough gear. I never go hiking anywhere without it packed in my bag for unexpected rain.

 

[blonz]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or b

I use parka and pants from the german bundeswehr called BW-tex in flecktarn. I like the camo pattern and the price is o.k.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or b

To those using the HH Impertech--which pants do you prefer, the bib or regular, and why?

 

[45.308]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or b

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To those using the HH Impertech--which pants do you prefer, the bib or regular, and why? </div></div>

Bibs and jacket provide two layers around the core, is hot and covers more body for less venting.

Another issue with bibs is dropping trowel. The bib must have either a rainbow zip, bomb door zip or swinging gate zip or you must drop the bib. I prefer bomb door between the legs, exposes less skin in the cold, smaller hole in rain, snow and wind, less weight, more wind and weatherproof when zipped up than rainbow and big plus it is easy to manage as there is no flapping material to hold out of the way. Swinging gate is hardest to use and both it and rainbow have a flap that must be dealt with or you will apply skid marks, not the thing you want 10 days in the back country.

The only activity I prefer bibs is skiing where a face plant will drive the cold gold up under a jacket or extreme speed of snow machining helping with wind chill up under a jacket.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or b

I don't plan on wearing them for more than 12 hours at a time--so I think the skid marks will be minimal!!

My needs will be low speed--except for when the ASC rains defy gravity and fly UP from the hollow!

So Matt- What's your call, rain or snow in May??

 

[dmg308]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or b

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I don't plan on wearing them for more than 12 hours at a time--so I think the skid marks will be minimal!!

My needs will be low speed--except for when the ASC rains defy gravity and fly UP from the hollow!

So Matt- What's your call, rain or snow in May?? </div></div>

For you lets go for blinding hail just to keep you from getting board

 

[XOR]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or b

I use pants and jacket. The bibs are too constricting for my tastes and weigh more in the pack when not being worn. With the HH jacket and pants I've been out shooting all day in icy rain in prone/field positions and was dry. Just make sure the jacket covers the waist and get a good wide brim hat if you don't like hoods.

 

[epaultmbt]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or b

I always make sure that the gor-tex bottoms have belt loops, and zip all the way down the sides. Chack out Arcteryx. Best stuff out there.

http://www.arcteryx.com/

http://leaf.arcteryx.com/

 

[45.308]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or b

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: epaultmbt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I always make sure that the gor-tex bottoms have belt loops, and zip all the way down the sides. Chack out Arcteryx. Best stuff out there.

http://www.arcteryx.com/

http://leaf.arcteryx.com/ </div></div>

I am not a fan of barn door design but if you are cool but I suggest you try a bomb door, complete through the crotch with triple pull zippers.

Check out WildThings and Integral Designs. The best I have used in my opinion, I have tested some Dead Bird.

 

[epaultmbt]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or b

I wonder if we are talking about the same thing. I like a full length zipper on the outside of both legs. So the gor-tex pants can be taken off without removing your boots.

 

[Camo_crawler]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or b

Rivers West gear is nice.

 

[Woodlanddude]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or b

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> So Matt- What's your call, rain or snow in May??</div></div>
Eric,
The crystal ball is fuzzy(maybe the Bud Light though??). I am trying to prepare accordingly! It does not look good at the present, however. Brock and I may do some recon tomorrow. It will not be possible by vehicle. On a side note: I like the APECS shell so far. I am getting some GWax to treat it this week. I used it with a 100wt fleece and some mid wt. thermals to good success to shoot the STS match in the 30's. Some heavier materials are used in the elbows and on the leg fronts. Now I am just scouting some good deals on HH to see what I'm getting.

 

[dyoung]

Re: Gore Tex.... Opinions on best parka/pants or b

After buying into goretex for years ...I changed after hunting Alaska alot....always leaked after several days of hard rain. Looked at what the guides were wearing and switched to the flexible rubber by HH. Cheaper, light and totally water proof...no more leaks. Yes you will sweat but I sweat in gore-tex too under hard climbs. It last a long time if you do not rip them and if you do just tape them up or patch with a rubber patch. My next pair will have suspenders for the pants

Its not camo but the green blends in pretty good.