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Re: Great Read- Auschwitz, A New History
Read some more books, before you start insulting French, Slovaks, Hungarians, Polish or Russians.
http://www1.yadvashem.org/righteous_new/statistics.html
Yad Vashem recognized over 22,000 Righteous Among the Nations from 44 countries.
1.Poland 6,066
2.Netherlands 4,863
3.France 2,833
4.Ukraine 2,213
5.Belgium 1,476
6.Lithuania 723
7.Hungary 703
8.Belarus 587
9.Slovakia 478
10.Germany 455
Poland was the only country in occupied Europe where the penalty for hiding a Jew was death for everyone living in the house.
In total the war cost the lives of 4,700 Danes, and I'm sure each one was a hero, but Poland's total loss was 6.5 million lives (3 millions were Polish Jews).
Read some more books, before you start insulting French, Slovaks, Hungarians, Polish or Russians.
http://www1.yadvashem.org/righteous_new/statistics.html
Yad Vashem recognized over 22,000 Righteous Among the Nations from 44 countries.
1.Poland 6,066
2.Netherlands 4,863
3.France 2,833
4.Ukraine 2,213
5.Belgium 1,476
6.Lithuania 723
7.Hungary 703
8.Belarus 587
9.Slovakia 478
10.Germany 455
Poland was the only country in occupied Europe where the penalty for hiding a Jew was death for everyone living in the house.
In total the war cost the lives of 4,700 Danes, and I'm sure each one was a hero, but Poland's total loss was 6.5 million lives (3 millions were Polish Jews).
Re: Great Read- Auschwitz, A New History
Hannibal-
Just one short piece of info,
the invaded countries had a go along or get shot policy,
most people, you excluded apparently prefers to survive them self and so they got along with the germans.
Short of the Russians/Chinese/Koreans the Naziz are the worst the world ever have seen.
No one goes without blame in the eradication of Jews during WWII.
/C
Hannibal-
Just one short piece of info,
the invaded countries had a go along or get shot policy,
most people, you excluded apparently prefers to survive them self and so they got along with the germans.
Short of the Russians/Chinese/Koreans the Naziz are the worst the world ever have seen.
No one goes without blame in the eradication of Jews during WWII.
/C
Re: Great Read- Auschwitz, A New History
"No one goes without blame in the eradication of Jews during WWII."
Amen
"No one goes without blame in the eradication of Jews during WWII."
Amen
Re: Great Read- Auschwitz, A New History
i have held two lampshades.....................the horror !
i have held two lampshades.....................the horror !
Re: Great Read- Auschwitz, A New History
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have held two lampshades.....................the horror !</div></div>
Bolt, I've heard of that, but never came across any. Not looking to, either.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have held two lampshades.....................the horror !</div></div>
Bolt, I've heard of that, but never came across any. Not looking to, either.
Re: Great Read- Auschwitz, A New History
You would think by now we would have learned something from history:
1990's Hutu Power Somalia 800,000- 1,000,000 deaths
Naziz Germany 1900's 6 million Jews and Christians
Young Turks government of the collapsing Ottoman Empire in 1889-1915 persecuted Christian populations in Anatolia, Syria and Mesopotamia, resulting in an estimated 2.5 million deaths
North and South American Indians 1490-1890 estimated loss of 100,000,000
Aztec Empire 1500's 250,000 per year (who know how long)
Vlad the Impaler 1400's 80,000-100,000
Those are the high light, there are many other... that's what we do or what we do to stop it.
You would think by now we would have learned something from history:
1990's Hutu Power Somalia 800,000- 1,000,000 deaths
Naziz Germany 1900's 6 million Jews and Christians
Young Turks government of the collapsing Ottoman Empire in 1889-1915 persecuted Christian populations in Anatolia, Syria and Mesopotamia, resulting in an estimated 2.5 million deaths
North and South American Indians 1490-1890 estimated loss of 100,000,000
Aztec Empire 1500's 250,000 per year (who know how long)
Vlad the Impaler 1400's 80,000-100,000
Those are the high light, there are many other... that's what we do or what we do to stop it.
Re: Great Read- Auschwitz, A New History
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SINGLE.SHOT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The American Indian 1490-1890 estimated loss of 100,000,000
</div></div>
Not saying it didn't happen, but, is that number accurate?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SINGLE.SHOT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The American Indian 1490-1890 estimated loss of 100,000,000
</div></div>
Not saying it didn't happen, but, is that number accurate?
Re: Great Read- Auschwitz, A New History
The Eastern world on the Western world: time frame was correct
Read it a little wrong sorry,
Western Hemisphere Native Americans
The Eastern world on the Western world: time frame was correct
Read it a little wrong sorry,
Western Hemisphere Native Americans
Re: Great Read- Auschwitz, A New History
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SINGLE.SHOT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The American Indian 1490-1890 estimated loss of 100,000,000
</div></div>
Not saying it didn't happen, but, is that number accurate? </div></div>
We killed and got rid of more American Indians that the Nazis did Jews but you don't hear too much about that stuff do ya?
The world is full of dictators who liked to kill or get rid of lots of people to the millions counts but the only ones we hear about long and loud are the Nazi crimes against Jews. We can forget about Indians here, the smaller tribes in South East Asian places(Hmong for one) but if we slight even the smallest amount the WWII holocaust we get reamed.
I am sure when one studies all the atrocities the Truth and Equity of all come to light. Face it, the world has had it's range of assholes since time began. Only time and place dictate amounts of people killed. I am sure that the %'s of each in every other place would be larger if that were considered as a proven point of how bad it really was at the time it happened
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SINGLE.SHOT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The American Indian 1490-1890 estimated loss of 100,000,000
</div></div>
Not saying it didn't happen, but, is that number accurate? </div></div>
We killed and got rid of more American Indians that the Nazis did Jews but you don't hear too much about that stuff do ya?
The world is full of dictators who liked to kill or get rid of lots of people to the millions counts but the only ones we hear about long and loud are the Nazi crimes against Jews. We can forget about Indians here, the smaller tribes in South East Asian places(Hmong for one) but if we slight even the smallest amount the WWII holocaust we get reamed.
I am sure when one studies all the atrocities the Truth and Equity of all come to light. Face it, the world has had it's range of assholes since time began. Only time and place dictate amounts of people killed. I am sure that the %'s of each in every other place would be larger if that were considered as a proven point of how bad it really was at the time it happened
Re: Great Read- Auschwitz, A New History
Genocide is a very difficult subject to deal with accurately. Viewpoints will often skew the numbers.
I would rather deal with the intangibles than the tangibles. The hows, and the why's; rather then the where's, the when's, and the how many's.
The numbers/magnitudes have their own importance, and it's significant; but the attitudes and motivations surrounding the numbers are the only real factors that can be directly addressed if one wishes to signficantly alter the consequences.
I suggest that the only real denominator is the fact that as long as there has been humanity, there has been genocide, in one guise or another. While it is universally accepted that it's impossible to approve of it, one might equally recognize that it's something humanity does pretty consistently.
When we can face that squarely, then we can begin to craft as solution.
Greg
Genocide is a very difficult subject to deal with accurately. Viewpoints will often skew the numbers.
I would rather deal with the intangibles than the tangibles. The hows, and the why's; rather then the where's, the when's, and the how many's.
The numbers/magnitudes have their own importance, and it's significant; but the attitudes and motivations surrounding the numbers are the only real factors that can be directly addressed if one wishes to signficantly alter the consequences.
I suggest that the only real denominator is the fact that as long as there has been humanity, there has been genocide, in one guise or another. While it is universally accepted that it's impossible to approve of it, one might equally recognize that it's something humanity does pretty consistently.
When we can face that squarely, then we can begin to craft as solution.
Greg
Re: Great Read- Auschwitz, A New History
Gentlemen, I appreciate and thank you for your replies, and input.
I'm not in any way saying that 'things' didn't happen. I was only asking for further info. As Switch states, we don't hear about any of this type of thing.
I was brought up with the prevalence of 'punishing those responsible for war crimes'. OK, fine. Do so. Who decides what is punishable?
I say this with all humility, but, I know I am not perfect, nor is anyone else. People (any race/any color) make mistakes. As much as I'd love to believe that 'North American's are Perfect', I have only to look at the Criminal Detention facilities to know otherwise.
So as such, knowing this as fact, the question that I raise is 'what don't we know'? I WANT TO BELIEVE THAT WE ARE BETTER, and for the most part, I do. And no, this is not a race, or competition, in any way. There were internment camps during WWII, and if that is the 'worst' we have done, then great.
THE point is, especially with the media being what/who they are, What Don't We Know?
Something to ponder on, with your morning coffee.
Gentlemen, I appreciate and thank you for your replies, and input.
I'm not in any way saying that 'things' didn't happen. I was only asking for further info. As Switch states, we don't hear about any of this type of thing.
I was brought up with the prevalence of 'punishing those responsible for war crimes'. OK, fine. Do so. Who decides what is punishable?
I say this with all humility, but, I know I am not perfect, nor is anyone else. People (any race/any color) make mistakes. As much as I'd love to believe that 'North American's are Perfect', I have only to look at the Criminal Detention facilities to know otherwise.
So as such, knowing this as fact, the question that I raise is 'what don't we know'? I WANT TO BELIEVE THAT WE ARE BETTER, and for the most part, I do. And no, this is not a race, or competition, in any way. There were internment camps during WWII, and if that is the 'worst' we have done, then great.
THE point is, especially with the media being what/who they are, What Don't We Know?
Something to ponder on, with your morning coffee.
Re: Great Read- Auschwitz, A New History
About 180,000,000 human beings murdered by their own governments in the past 110 years. Belgian Congo 12M, Armenia/Turkey 1.5M, Stalinist Russia & Ukraine 45M, Maoist China 65M, Pol Pot 2m, and the list goes on.
Search google on genocide and you will find some sites. In the last couple weeks, Turkey reiterated that it was not responsible for the deaths of the Armenians. Lots of Armenians in America; they haven't forgotten.
Read Foxe's Book of Martyrs if you want to comprehend some of the religionist murder that has gone on.
Watch your news and be vigilant; quite often these days you hear brief blurbs about how "the earth is over capacity". Wonder who will decide who is surplus and who is "essential"? Ever wonder how this shit get's started? If you have a keen eye, you will likely figure it out soon enough.
About 180,000,000 human beings murdered by their own governments in the past 110 years. Belgian Congo 12M, Armenia/Turkey 1.5M, Stalinist Russia & Ukraine 45M, Maoist China 65M, Pol Pot 2m, and the list goes on.
Search google on genocide and you will find some sites. In the last couple weeks, Turkey reiterated that it was not responsible for the deaths of the Armenians. Lots of Armenians in America; they haven't forgotten.
Read Foxe's Book of Martyrs if you want to comprehend some of the religionist murder that has gone on.
Watch your news and be vigilant; quite often these days you hear brief blurbs about how "the earth is over capacity". Wonder who will decide who is surplus and who is "essential"? Ever wonder how this shit get's started? If you have a keen eye, you will likely figure it out soon enough.
