Very close on buying a PVS 14 but don't know which ones. Not worry about prices but comfort for my eyes to look threw. I had Lasik eyes done a few years ago. Was wonder if any of you had Lasik and had any issues with the color green or white when using NV. Thanks.
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Night Vision Green vs White NV qestion
- Thread starter culater
- Start date
You can rent them and apply the rental fee towards purchase.
www.ultimatenightvision.com
Rentals - Ultimate Night Vision
Night vision and thermal scope rentals for night hunting, pre-purchase evaluation and more. We ship thermal night vision rentals nation-wide and can have a rental sent out same-day in most cases.
www.ultimatenightvision.com
White is very nice but comes at a premium - generally between $600-1000 more for a comparable tube. Some people are able to see a little more contrast with the white phosphor, but comparable tubes in each color actually give the same performance if you take a snapshot and convert it to black/white. Special forces and many other military users are asking for white on most recent contracts. White is also a bit easier on the eyes if you are using the tube for hours at a time.
Having said all of that, you have to ask if the extra cost is worth it to you personally? If you go green you could sink the money saved into mounts and a bump helmet, put it towards a nice laser/illuminator or pay for most of an RMR pistol (which work better with night vision). Look at the total cost of the other parts you need to make a total night shooting setup work and then decide how much to sink in each component.
Having said all of that, you have to ask if the extra cost is worth it to you personally? If you go green you could sink the money saved into mounts and a bump helmet, put it towards a nice laser/illuminator or pay for most of an RMR pistol (which work better with night vision). Look at the total cost of the other parts you need to make a total night shooting setup work and then decide how much to sink in each component.
I'm in the army and LASIK about 2 years ago. Best decision I ever made. Red dots actually look like dots and not a blur of red. Zero issues with either one. We just actually did night fires and we now have the white and again zero issues.
WP gives you a bit more resolution but is harder on the eyes if worn for longer periods of time.
You'll be fine with either.
You'll be fine with either.
As you can see from the responses some people like one color over the other. I you ask 100 people you'll get 50 different answers.
The green actually has slightly better resolution than the white (when measured), the white will produce slightly better contrast than a comparable spec green tube. I find the improved contrast more important for what I'm using the google for (mostly maneuvering in a wooded area).
I have not had LASIK, but I find that white greatly reduces eyestrain, and I can wear them without getting a headache, the green starts to bother me after about 45 minutes.
As state previously, if possible try both WP and GP before spending the money. Personally, I would spend the extra cash on the white. I have had the opportunity to use systems of comparable specs for extended periods of time, and found the white worked better for me.
The green actually has slightly better resolution than the white (when measured), the white will produce slightly better contrast than a comparable spec green tube. I find the improved contrast more important for what I'm using the google for (mostly maneuvering in a wooded area).
I have not had LASIK, but I find that white greatly reduces eyestrain, and I can wear them without getting a headache, the green starts to bother me after about 45 minutes.
As state previously, if possible try both WP and GP before spending the money. Personally, I would spend the extra cash on the white. I have had the opportunity to use systems of comparable specs for extended periods of time, and found the white worked better for me.
Oh god, that's the truth. I didn't fully appreciate how big of a deal a RDS was for trying to run a handgun under NVs until I actually had a PVS-14 to try it with. Anything more than point shooting a handgun is all but impossible for me with irons. RDS? Completely different ballgame.
That^
Deployment I was using 20s and got a chance to play with white. I’d give up the thermal capability for the white, it’s that much better.
WP hands down for a monocular. Image is 100% better and more detail. You can also run WP on a dual band setup down the road if you desire. Trying to run thermal and green will give you a fucking headache.
The film is a barrier to prevent ions from feeding back to the photocathode in the tube from the microchannel plate which can damage the tube. Unfortunately the film also blocks some light. Over the past few years, methods were developed to remove the film while still maintaining good tube life - thus "unfilmed" tubes.
Unfilmed is called "gen 4" by some manufacturers though there really is no "gen 4" recognized by the military yet (its a marketing term). The unfilmed can give you a 10-20% light transmission gain over the thin filmed version. It also used to be the case that unfilmed were more sensitive to recoil, though you can't say that in all cases now. Unfilmed also costs more.
The performance difference between a good Pinnacle or Omni VIII tube that is thin filmed vs unfilmed is really about 10-20% light transmission which is not a huge amount. These tubes are so good they more often have to be gated or gain adjusted to operate in most conditions and will perform well even on an overcast night with no moon and no illumination.
The difference stepping down to a Omni VII, or earlier generation is much larger. Same if you purchase from an unknown supplier. Check the specs on the tube you want to buy and compare it against the latest Omni VIII or Pinnacle tubes to make sure you know what you are getting.
Ok there the Commercial, MIL GRADE or MIL SPEC tubes is there a difference in durability or is this more marketing.
Any of you guys use the 40 degree vs the 51 degree?
My last question is there any difference between companies and there tubes they manufacture. Seen to me there all the same
Any of you guys use the 40 degree vs the 51 degree?
My last question is there any difference between companies and there tubes they manufacture. Seen to me there all the same
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Honestly a lot of the "Mil-spec, mil-grade, etc..." is marketing speak. Real military tubes do go through a specific testing regime which adds cost that most commercial users don't want to pay, and so you see a bunch of terms like "mil-spec, mil-grade" etc. Keep in mind that some of the tubes good manufacturers use are the same tubes the military uses, but they are typically then built up into a device by the seller and not the original manufacturer.
I believe 40 degrees (+/- 2) is standard. I've not personally used the 51 degree, but that would only be a few degrees on either side and would still be the same feeling of looking through a soda straw. In practice you will still need to keep your head constantly moving to use either one.
For companies, the tubes themselves are either L3 or Harris. Current gen are L3 Omni VIII or the Harris Pinnacle series. If you can afford it you should get either a Pinnacle or Omni VIII tube with a good SNR ratio. Many secondary manufacturers will use lower grade or older generation tubes. However the tubes are then attached to a housing, power supply and packaged into a device by someone like TNVC, ATN, OPMOD, FLIR, etc... and them some of these are also resold on outlets like Amazon, Optics Planet. etc...
As a result it can be hard to figure out what you are actually buying. Many will just say "Gen 3" tubes, which in most cases are not the latest Pinnacle or Omni VIII tubes. Also look at the warranty. Some well respected places like TNVC have started offering 10 year or even lifetime warranties, while others offer only a 1-2 year warranty. I personally like TNVC.
Finally look at the price - if it is a "too good to be true" price it is probably is too good to be true. A top quality monocular in green with a good warranty will probably run you at least $2800-3200 on sale, and white will run $600-1000 more.
I believe 40 degrees (+/- 2) is standard. I've not personally used the 51 degree, but that would only be a few degrees on either side and would still be the same feeling of looking through a soda straw. In practice you will still need to keep your head constantly moving to use either one.
For companies, the tubes themselves are either L3 or Harris. Current gen are L3 Omni VIII or the Harris Pinnacle series. If you can afford it you should get either a Pinnacle or Omni VIII tube with a good SNR ratio. Many secondary manufacturers will use lower grade or older generation tubes. However the tubes are then attached to a housing, power supply and packaged into a device by someone like TNVC, ATN, OPMOD, FLIR, etc... and them some of these are also resold on outlets like Amazon, Optics Planet. etc...
As a result it can be hard to figure out what you are actually buying. Many will just say "Gen 3" tubes, which in most cases are not the latest Pinnacle or Omni VIII tubes. Also look at the warranty. Some well respected places like TNVC have started offering 10 year or even lifetime warranties, while others offer only a 1-2 year warranty. I personally like TNVC.
Finally look at the price - if it is a "too good to be true" price it is probably is too good to be true. A top quality monocular in green with a good warranty will probably run you at least $2800-3200 on sale, and white will run $600-1000 more.
WP definitely is better in general regardless of lasik. It’s not “necessary” but I’ve found it to give better clarity into shadows and has better contrast making it easier to identify things and people as well as imo reduced eye fatigue relative to green.
40 degrees might be the mil standard, but a wider field of view never hurts of quality if manufacture is good (not sacrificing quality for features). I don’t think I need to dive into why field of view is important..
40 degrees might be the mil standard, but a wider field of view never hurts of quality if manufacture is good (not sacrificing quality for features). I don’t think I need to dive into why field of view is important..
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I'm a bit late to the party here and I can't speak to the Lasik issue.
However, after spending thousands of hours under green NVGs and then getting to use white goggles, I would never spend my money on a set of green NVGs.
The contrast of the white just seems easier on the eyes after hours of use and easier for the brain to understand what it is looking at and pick out details.
However, after spending thousands of hours under green NVGs and then getting to use white goggles, I would never spend my money on a set of green NVGs.
The contrast of the white just seems easier on the eyes after hours of use and easier for the brain to understand what it is looking at and pick out details.
I haven't gone out and bought my own yet, I'm in the process of retiring from the military and need a new income before I start buying NVG toys.
All my experience has come from night vision and thermal devices that the Army has provided.
Green and white are just two different colors. If you want performance definitely go with an L3 Unfilmed tube and focus on specs not color. I can't speak to how Lasik plays a part but two tubes with the same specs will generally perform the same regardless of color. If you pay the extra money for a handpick (usually around $250) the vendor will present you with spec sheets for 3-5 of their best tubes currently available and you'll get your choice of which but no with comment to buy. You can then call every major vendor in the US and request spec sheets for a handpick giving you the ablity to pick from the best tube currently available to civilians in the country. If you tell them you're not sure if you want green or white tube but would like to see specs on both they may give you specs for 3-5 of their green and white tubes to choose from. This is how I scored a high spec Green tube that would outperform the vast majority of tubes out there green or white. Don't stress a ton on the color and if your not sure which you may like better then buy whichever is available with higher specs.
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It really depends on what you plan to do with it and how much peace of mind you want. A device with a shorter warranty can be slightly cheaper but not always.
The cost that affects price is the tube itself. Higher spec tubes cost more than lower spec. Dealers may or may not pass on lower costs to the customer so just because something costs more doesn't always mean it's better. Best bet is to find out what tube is inside (specifications). I'd recommend getting at the very least the current "mil-spec" Omni VIII minimum specifications, which is pretty average these days, and easy to get.
I've bought devices with a 10 year warranty but never had to take advantage of it for any issues with tubes. I've had a device with debris inside that had to be removed and one with a loose pigtail connection, both of which were discovered soon after getting them. I end up flipping devices to buy other ones, so I'm more partial to the cost versus longer warranty, although longer warranties usually pass to 2nd hand owners (TNVC and JRH/Night Vision Devices do) so it can help resale. If it's something you plan to keep for as long as possible then I'd go for the 10 year warranty.
It is pretty rare for tubes to just die suddenly on their own. I've had tubes from the mid 90's that changed hands who knows how many times that worked perfect. I still have one from 96 that is a solid performer.
Another vote for white I ran a D760 with a gen3 thin film tube for years and bought a white phosphor filmless L3 D790 and the difference is very apparent for me
Are you sure the difference you noticed isn't thin flimed vs L3 unfilmed instead of green vs white?
Great point you may be right. The glass is better on the 790 too but the white is much easier on my old eyes
LASIK shouldn’t bother anything. Hasn’t for me.
I’ve only looked through white phosphor in a pvs14, and honestly I didn’t care much for it. Not enough to pay extra so I guess I’m the outlier in the meh who cares category.
I will say that my eyes got vastly more fatigued from shifts day and night and commutes than from looking through any night vision device.
Maybe that’s half of the equation. People staying up all night getting tired messing around in night vision gear than what color the screen is.
I’ve only looked through white phosphor in a pvs14, and honestly I didn’t care much for it. Not enough to pay extra so I guess I’m the outlier in the meh who cares category.
I will say that my eyes got vastly more fatigued from shifts day and night and commutes than from looking through any night vision device.
Maybe that’s half of the equation. People staying up all night getting tired messing around in night vision gear than what color the screen is.
For me the white is better for depth perception it’s easier for judging distance. When using a 6 power is when the green made me want to claw my eyes out in very low light (no stars)for extended periods of time.
To me, white is a lot better. I've got over 500 hours using green. If you've only used green, it's great. But once you throw on the white phosphorus, you'll never want to go back. Resolution to me was a huge upgrade.
Now, that being said, to me, it's not worth buying WP unless you are hunting terrorists. That's a lot of money that to me would be better used on ammo/accessories.
Now, that being said, to me, it's not worth buying WP unless you are hunting terrorists. That's a lot of money that to me would be better used on ammo/accessories.
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And these people even build NV devices. 
Now ain't that a HOOT.
actinblack.com
Now ain't that a HOOT.
ActinBlack | Advanced Night Vision Optics made in Luxembourg
ACTinBlack (ACT) is a leading developer and manufacturer specializing in advanced Night Vision Optics and Night Vision Technologies.
actinblack.com
And these people even build NV devices.
ActinBlack | Advanced Night Vision Optics made in Luxembourg
ACTinBlack (ACT) is a leading developer and manufacturer specializing in advanced Night Vision Optics and Night Vision Technologies.
View attachment 7228845
Now that’s pretty embarrassing.
That’’s how we say it in Europe. Yeah that’s it. Lol
I thought so too.
I hope their Quality Control is better at assembling NOD's vs their QC on their Website Pages. LOL
They make good stuff. Surprised nobody caught it when they proofed it but shit happens
I had a hand picked L3 Unfilmed WP tube I sold it and kept the green one. I think this is one of Todd Huey's from Huey outdoors old pics from when he was with Ultimate Night Vision IIRC he perfered the green tubes too.
Dude, you got that backwards. OMNI7 standards are higher than OMNI8 --they were relaxed because too many mispec units were being kicked back despite actually being just fine.
Trust me, back when you had the option I made damn certain to get the ITT OMNI7 because I wanted the best (and that particular unit was one of the best if not the best at that time). What will affect your purchase more IMO is if you get it "hand select" meaning you can set the limits on the performance. Bear in mind if you want a "perfect" set you may be waiting a while for one that good to come through. I had to wait a couple months but it was well worth the wait.
It'd just call TNVC if you were you and talk to Vic, they can square you away and do it without selling you on shit.
White looks better, green is supposed to show more. It's green in the first place because the human eye sees more shades of green than any color as well as movements in the green spectrum (survival shit from back when were on the menu).
I've only had my new white tubes a few days, but I have a decent amount of experience with 7 different green tubes, ranging from omni 2 - omni 8, so take this for what you will. First off I'll say that my white tubes are phenomenal, and I'm very happy I made the upgrade. What I immediately noticed was that the white was much more pleasing to my eyes, the contrast was better, and the overall experience was more enjoyable. I can't comment beyond that because I only have a few hours on the new tubes, and it's not really fair to compare Omni 8 green tubes to my high fom white tubes performance wise.
Honestly if I were in your shoes I would go for the highest spec tube I could get, thin filmed or filmless, preferably in white. Yes filmless tend to have better specs, but not always. My white tubes are thin filmed Elbit(formerly Harris) F9400 tubes, and they have specs that beat most filmless tubes I've seen.
Also white tubes tend to have better resale value. I've had PVS 7s, PVS 14s, dual PVS 14s, and now binos, and for me personally binos are the way to go. Alot of people who start out with a mono eventually want to upgrade to binos, and you may want to sell your 14 to help fund it.
Ultimately I think you would be well served with any tube that at least meets OMNI 8 minimums, white or green. However I do think trying both is the way to go. Just because something looks better to my eyes, doesn't mean it'll look better for yours.
Honestly if I were in your shoes I would go for the highest spec tube I could get, thin filmed or filmless, preferably in white. Yes filmless tend to have better specs, but not always. My white tubes are thin filmed Elbit(formerly Harris) F9400 tubes, and they have specs that beat most filmless tubes I've seen.
Also white tubes tend to have better resale value. I've had PVS 7s, PVS 14s, dual PVS 14s, and now binos, and for me personally binos are the way to go. Alot of people who start out with a mono eventually want to upgrade to binos, and you may want to sell your 14 to help fund it.
Ultimately I think you would be well served with any tube that at least meets OMNI 8 minimums, white or green. However I do think trying both is the way to go. Just because something looks better to my eyes, doesn't mean it'll look better for yours.
@Shreddingaxes
Would you mind posting your tube data sheet numbers for the following. Its ok to post the numbers, you just cant post a photo of the actual sheets. I have been thinking about trying some of those tubes.
Line Pair/Resolution
Photocathode Respone/Sensitivity
EBI
Halo
Signal to Noise
System Gain
Would you mind posting your tube data sheet numbers for the following. Its ok to post the numbers, you just cant post a photo of the actual sheets. I have been thinking about trying some of those tubes.
Line Pair/Resolution
Photocathode Respone/Sensitivity
EBI
Halo
Signal to Noise
System Gain
Tube 1
81 lpmm
36.9 SNR
2630 Photocathode sensitivity
.72 halo
1.79 EBI
69517 gain
Tube 2
81lpmm
37.1 SNR
2297 Photocathode response
1.5 EBI
.72 halo
68687 gain
81 lpmm
36.9 SNR
2630 Photocathode sensitivity
.72 halo
1.79 EBI
69517 gain
Tube 2
81lpmm
37.1 SNR
2297 Photocathode response
1.5 EBI
.72 halo
68687 gain
WOW. Pray tell what Night Vision Gods are you praying to. Those are pretty stunning specs for a thin filmed. EBI is a tad higher than I would like BUT I bet they are super performers.
They're awesome, and I just prayed that I would quit wasting money. It's amazing how much money those little incremental steps end up costing. IMO save up and get what you really want the first time, you'll save a boatload of cash.
Saving my pennies now. I'm a buy once cry once buyer
It's worth it. It sucks buying a compromise and then a week later seeing a good deal on what you really want for just a little more dough. It takes the fun away from it quickly.
I’m new to NV. I’ve played with green with my friends setups, and I ultimately went white. White just seems so much more pleasant to look through. Green just made me not want to wear them that long. White, I can’t wait until the sun goes down.
I’d never buy another set of green tubes again.
I’d never buy another set of green tubes again.
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