Hunting & Fishing Grendel hunting

[Toney198]

I got my son a Grendel for deer season this year. He shot a nice doe at about 85 yards. Not a drip of blood all the way till I found her about 100 yards away. I went through one shoulder and one lung before turning to dust.
Now she was dead and the damage was nice, but in the thick stuff it was hard to track with no blood. Would the sst be a better option? Looking for damage and pass through...

 

[Toney198]

Or is there a better option (factory)

 

[rookie7]

What ammo was he shooting?

 

[rookie7]

No disrespect intended here, but you have one sample size. My daughter and I have taken 9 animals in 2 seasons with a Howa 6.5 Grendel.

Last season I loaded the Sierra 120 Pro Hunter. Blood trails were fine, and all animals were dead and recovered.

This year I loaded 123 SST, same results as last year.

If you were using Hornady Black with 123 ELDM bullets there are many testimonies that the bullet kills well.

Somtimes blood trails are great and sometimes they are not. Low body cavity exit holes that aren’t plugged by tissue leave the best blood trails.

The Grendel is a killing machine.

 

[Toney198]

I’m not talking down on the grendel, I fully intend to keep it, it now has two kills, both clearly died, the second one was a small yearling, still didn’t touch the opposite side of the ribs.
Not it didn’t take but about 3 steps, but I am still asking for a more robust round. It clearly kills but if it don’t fall over where it’s shot, tracking in the thick briars is near impossible.

No disrespect intended here, but you have one sample size. My daughter and I have taken 9 animals in 2 seasons with a Howa 6.5 Grendel.

Last season I loaded the Sierra 120 Pro Hunter. Blood trails were fine, and all animals were dead and recovered.

This year I loaded 123 SST, same results as last year.

If you were using Hornady Black with 123 ELDM bullets there are many testimonies that the bullet kills well.

Somtimes blood trails are great and sometimes they are not. Low body cavity exit holes that aren’t plugged by tissue leave the best blood trails.

The Grendel is a killing machine.

 

[Toney198]

What ammo was he shooting?

Hornady Black

 

[diggler1833]

The ELD-M can kill very effectively, but it has also proven to be less than 100 percent consistent. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the 123gr SST, or 120gr TSX. Right now I'm testing the 120gr NBT on hogs.

Both the SST and TSX will almost assuredly pass through a deer at moderate ranges, especially the TSX. I was getting full penetration on most hogs under 200 pounds with the SST...obviously if I hit the spine it might differ a bit. The TSX is a beast...I did bust one coyote with it too, and actually had the bullet open up on a broadside shot, which I really wasn't expecting.

 

[Toney198]

Thank you. The ELDMS absolutely destroyed the shoulder it hit, but on the adult sized deer it didn’t make it to the second lung and neither deer hit the opposite rib cage. 99% of our deer won’t hit 200lbs so I think I will give the sst a chance, may try both

 

[hlee]

My son took a mature South Texas whitetail a few weeks ago with a 6.5 Grendel, at about 65 yards. It was a pass through shot right behind the shoulder, but the bullet was fragmenting as it was exiting. I thought the front shoulder was toast, but I was mistaken. This was Hornady black eld-m. I had bought a box of Hornady sst cartridges but they were all over the target, while the eld-ms were a tight little group. I am confident that the sst would have held up better, but didn’t have the time or patients to work up a hand load with those bullets when the Hornady black shoots so well. I am a big fan of tsx bullets in my 270 Winchester, but haven‘t tried them in the Grendel.

The shots I take on deer are not long, generally less than 100 yards. Meat deer (does, spikes, culls, etc) get shot in the head or high neck. They are all drt and I don’t like to track deer. Big bucks get shot behind the shoulder. I’ve never not seen a pass through with a Grendel, though my experience is limited to the deer that I and my family have taken- again at relatively short range.

 

[SquarePizza]

I run 120gr gold dots over 28.0 of varget. Double lung pass through on a doe at 170 yards with no recovery of the bullet.

I think they hold together very well and I have no complaints.

 

[Toney198]

My son took a mature South Texas whitetail a few weeks ago with a 6.5 Grendel, at about 65 yards. It was a pass through shot right behind the shoulder, but the bullet was fragmenting as it was exiting. I thought the front shoulder was toast, but I was mistaken. This was Hornady black eld-m. I had bought a box of Hornady sst cartridges but they were all over the target, while the eld-ms were a tight little group. I am confident that the sst would have held up better, but didn’t have the time or patients to work up a hand load with those bullets when the Hornady black shoots so well. I am a big fan of tsx bullets in my 270 Winchester, but haven‘t tried them in the Grendel.

View attachment 7493479
View attachment 7493480

The shots I take on deer are not long, generally less than 100 yards. Meat deer (does, spikes, culls, etc) get shot in the head or high neck. They are all drt and I don’t like to track deer. Big bucks get shot behind the shoulder. I’ve never not seen a pass through with a Grendel, though my experience is limited to the deer that I and my family have taken- again at relatively short range.

That was my exact reason for going eldm. The “custom SST” was a 2.5 moa, and the Blacks shot less than MOA.

 

[diggler1833]

That was my exact reason for going eldm. The “custom SST” was a 2.5 moa, and the Blacks shot less than MOA.

That would be reason enough to avoid the SST for me too. You might also try the 120gr Gold Dot or Fusion on deer. They expand and penetrate deeply if not completely pass through hogs just fine, but the lack of fragmentation and secondary wound channels usually mean that the hogs are going to run 100 yards or so before they collapse if you don't directly hit the CNS.

Perfectly fine for deer hunting, but when you're trying to recover hogs by yourself in thick brush in the middle of the night it is a little nerve wracking.

The worst part about the Grendel right now is finding ammo to feed it. If you don't roll your own, good luck. Damn SST ammo is selling for nearly $3/round on Gunbroker currently.

 

[nightman89]

Try a different bullet. Plenty of good options available to reloaders. As others have mentioned, if the SST shoots like shit in your rifle, try the gold dot or the Barnes offerings. I wouldn't move on from the Grendel, but more experimentation might be in order to find the optimal round for your rifle.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

Shoot em in the neck

 

[Toney198]

Try a different bullet. Plenty of good options available to reloaders. As others have mentioned, if the SST shoots like shit in your rifle, try the gold dot or the Barnes offerings. I wouldn't move on from the Grendel, but more experimentation might be in order to find the optimal round for your rifle.

no plans to move away from the round, I kinda failed to mention this rifle was built solely for a 7 year old. Research suggest it’s the cream of the crop for AR/little kid recoil system. He is very accurate with eldm, I just hope there is something “better” (even with absolute perfect shot placement no blood trail) looking at the Nosler if anyone has any experience with them.

 

[diggler1833]

no plans to move away from the round, I kinda failed to mention this rifle was built solely for a 7 year old. Research suggest it’s the cream of the crop for AR/little kid recoil system. He is very accurate with eldm, I just hope there is something “better” (even with absolute perfect shot placement no blood trail) looking at the Nosler if anyone has any experience with them.

I've shot a couple of hogs with the 120gr Ballistic Tip. So far it has done alright, but my sample is small.

 

[Carlos Danger]

no plans to move away from the round, I kinda failed to mention this rifle was built solely for a 7 year old. Research suggest it’s the cream of the crop for AR/little kid recoil system. He is very accurate with eldm, I just hope there is something “better” (even with absolute perfect shot placement no blood trail) looking at the Nosler if anyone has any experience with them.

Even better with a brake. Almost no recoil.

 

[hlee]

Even better with a brake. Almost no recoil.
View attachment 7495893

I think your autocorrect is broken. It says “brake” in your post, but surely you mean “suppressor...”

 

[Carlos Danger]

I think your autocorrect is broken. It says “brake” in your post, but surely you mean “suppressor...”
View attachment 7495900

I wish. Fuckin NY state.

 

[rookie7]

@Toney198 sounds like we hunt in similar terrain. My daughter (13) and I sit in double ladder stands together, and we are always near thick cover like you mention. This is her 5th season hunting with me.

In my experience, very few deer drop where they stand with vital shots. I have had some do, but most run some. I am sure there are hunters that have shot deer with many more cartridges than I have, but my experience is limited to killing with 44 mag, 223, 243, 300 blackout, 30/30, 6.5 grendel, 7/08, 308, and 270. I have had them drop where they stood with the 223, 300 blackout, and 243. I have had them run a few hundred yards with the 7/08, and run some with the 270 and others.

I'm not a fan at all of neck shots - 2 bad personal experiences - so I won't take them.

I think the 6.5 grendel is a perfect cartridge for youth, and the 300 blackout is a close second.

The 2 deer we shot (her 1 and myself 1) both ran about 40 to 50 yards, and both were behind the shoulder shots. Her buck bled everywhere - he had it coming out of his mouth. My buck didn't bleed a ton - both were shot with handloaded 123 sst bullets.

I've got a box of 123 eldms. I'm going to load up some this weekend with 8208 and try those for the rest of our season. I'd like to see what they do in comparison to the sst bullets.

The Howa mini we have has a 20" semi-heavy barrel. What length barrel do you have on the AR you built your son?

 

[rookie7]

BTW, the best blood trails I have ever had on deer and hogs have come from 2 blade broadheads - Magnus Stingers and Zephyr Tempest heads.

One of the shortest blood trails I have ever had came from the Zephyr out of a recurve - the small buck went about 10 yards.

One of the most profuse blood trails came from a doe I shot at 7 yards with a 2 blade head = liver hit. I could see the blood squirting out both sides of her body as she made a 20 yard death run.

 

[Toney198]

@Toney198 sounds like we hunt in similar terrain. My daughter (13) and I sit in double ladder stands together, and we are always near thick cover like you mention. This is her 5th season hunting with me.

In my experience, very few deer drop where they stand with vital shots. I have had some do, but most run some. I am sure there are hunters that have shot deer with many more cartridges than I have, but my experience is limited to killing with 44 mag, 223, 243, 300 blackout, 30/30, 6.5 grendel, 7/08, 308, and 270. I have had them drop where they stood with the 223, 300 blackout, and 243. I have had them run a few hundred yards with the 7/08, and run some with the 270 and others.

I'm not a fan at all of neck shots - 2 bad personal experiences - so I won't take them.

I think the 6.5 grendel is a perfect cartridge for youth, and the 300 blackout is a close second.

The 2 deer we shot (her 1 and myself 1) both ran about 40 to 50 yards, and both were behind the shoulder shots. Her buck bled everywhere - he had it coming out of his mouth. My buck didn't bleed a ton - both were shot with handloaded 123 sst bullets.

I've got a box of 123 eldms. I'm going to load up some this weekend with 8208 and try those for the rest of our season. I'd like to see what they do in comparison to the sst bullets.

The Howa mini we have has a 20" semi-heavy barrel. What length barrel do you have on the AR you built your son?

20in barrel and suppresser.

 

[OopsWetWedgie]

Every animal and shot is different. I think you are on par with your set up. I took a buck this year with a 7mm Mag at 40 yards. Took a lung and the top of his heart off. He still ran about 70 yards. Not a drop of blood anywhere. Rookie7 seems to be on point with his advice.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Or is there a better option (factory)

Yes, absolutely, there are better factory options if you are looking for ammo that will overpenetrate so as to potentially give you a better blood trail, but are they available right now is a salient concern.

Federal Fusion 120s will give you great penetration and over penetration
Hornady SST 123 gr. should penetrate very well, also, but like won't hold together as well as the Fusions.
Barnes Vor-TX
Alexander Arms' Nosler Ballistic Tips
Alexander Arms' Hornady SST 129 gr.
Druid Hill Armory Remington Core-Lokt 120s
Druid Hill Armory Speer Gold Dot 120s (I like Gold Dots over Fusions, though they are apparently the same bullet with different coatings)
Lehigh Defense Controlled Chaos 110s


There are a couple of other boutique ammo manufacturers out there as well, plus several that will custom load ammo for you such as Custom Reloads of Dallas.

 

[Toney198]

Yes, absolutely, there are better factory options if you are looking for ammo that will overpenetrate so as to potentially give you a better blood trail, but are they available right now is a salient concern.

Federal Fusion 120s will give you great penetration and over penetration
Hornady SST 123 gr. should penetrate very well, also, but like won't hold together as well as the Fusions.
Barnes Vor-TX
Alexander Arms' Nosler Ballistic Tips
Alexander Arms' Hornady SST 129 gr.
Druid Hill Armory Remington Core-Lokt 120s
Druid Hill Armory Speer Gold Dot 120s (I like Gold Dots over Fusions, though they are apparently the same bullet with different coatings)
Lehigh Defense Controlled Chaos 110s


There are a couple of other boutique ammo manufacturers out there as well, plus several that will custom load ammo for you such as Custom Reloads of Dallas.

Over penetration is not a concern where I hunt as long as there is expansion. Miles of no one around and hunt elevation so just hits the ground but I’m also not looking for fmj results.

I think the accubonds will be next on the try list.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Over penetration is not a concern where I hunt as long as there is expansion. Miles of no one around and hunt elevation so just hits the ground but I’m also not looking for fmj results.

I think the accubonds will be next on the try list.

Overpenetration is a concern if you want a good blood trail. Entry-only wounds tend to produce very poor blood trails unless you hit an artery right under the skin.

 

[FCS]

100 / 120 Nosler BT works well.
100 / 120 Amax / ELD-M works well.

 

[Toney198]

Overpenetration is a concern if you want a good blood trail. Entry-only wounds tend to produce very poor blood trails unless you hit an artery right under the skin.

this entire thread-has been about me wanting a pass through so I can have a blood trail?

 

[FCS]

Feed back from customer on how the 100 Amax did on deer.
16” AA upper, IIRC the 100 Amax was running 2740 fps from his upper.
Left a decent blood trail, did exit but there was also pretty violent expansion & some bullet fragments left in hide on off side.

 

[ZXGRIFF]

The doe on the ground was @330 yards. Using Hornady Custom 123SST I had complete pass through with an exit hole about the size of a 50 cent piece and she wobbled about 10 or 15 yards before expiring. Took out the heart and both lungs, lots of blood on the ground. The little buck didn’t seem to mind that she was dead, thought I might have to knock him off of her carcass...

 

[Quiet6.8]

325 yards Factory 123SST 18” Odin barrel 2.4-10FFP Vortex optic

Spine hit, found the jacket and it shed its core

 

[Toney198]

Kinda going back and forth on the sst and acubond. The sst wasn’t that accurate in my gun. Maybe I can load some that will
Work.

 

[diggler1833]

Kinda going back and forth on the sst and acubond. The sst wasn’t that accurate in my gun. Maybe I can load some that will
Work.

I'm assuming that you're referring to the 130gr Accubond? That is a rather long bullet for the Grendel in an AR platform, and I suspect that you're going to run into performance issues if you try to stretch the range very far at all. If you can get the velocity up to 2,400 (possible I suppose, but good luck), you'll basically be below the threshold for decent performance around 200 yards.

The velocity of the Grendel is right in the wheelhouse of the Nosler BT.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

this entire thread-has been about me wanting a pass through so I can have a blood trail?

I have no idea what you think this entire thread is about. You mentioned and complained about specific issues and I addressed those issues. In the OP, you complained about a lack of a blood trail and wanting pass through.

The blood trail issue goes hand in hand with post #5 where you noted that you hunted in thick stuff and finding game can be difficult.

Then you bizarrely noted that pass thru isn't an issue, despite the fact of stating you wanted it, wanting to be able to track a wounded deer.

So yeah, I have no idea what you are thinking.

 

[Toney198]

I have no idea what you think this entire thread is about. You mentioned and complained about specific issues and I addressed those issues. In the OP, you complained about a lack of a blood trail and wanting pass through.

The blood trail issue goes hand in hand with post #5 where you noted that you hunted in thick stuff and finding game can be difficult.

Then you bizarrely noted that pass thru isn't an issue, despite the fact of stating you wanted it, wanting to be able to track a wounded deer.

So yeah, I have no idea what you are thinking.

No

I clearly stated over penetration is not a concern (as in bring on all the over penetration I can get) it was in reference to the post above making sure it was not a problem.
I think you miss read it or I was not clear enough?

either way after seeing the performance of eldm. I went back and crawled through all the briars and found his buck from youth season that I assume he missed due to no blood!!!!

 

[Toney198]

 

[Toney198]

this one. Not many reviews, maybe because it’s so dang expensive.

I'm assuming that you're referring to the 130gr Accubond? That is a rather long bullet for the Grendel in an AR platform, and I suspect that you're going to run into performance issues if you try to stretch the range very far at all. If you can get the velocity up to 2,400 (possible I suppose, but good luck), you'll basically be below the threshold for decent performance around 200 yards.

The velocity of the Grendel is right in the wheelhouse of the Nosler BT.

 

[diggler1833]

Should expand better at lower velocity...which is exactly what you'll get with a bullet that long.

However, velocity will drop off slower due to the higher BC.

Buy it, try it, let us know how it does.

My small frame AR hunting has been limited to just hogs, and as such, I end up shooting quite a bit a multiple running targets. I find that faster bullets are more forgiving when trying to lead movers that are going 20+ MPH. Therefore I am starting to gravitate toward lighter bullets.

I shot a 275lb boar three nights ago, and he ended up being a good deal farther away that I estimated. It took five hits to anchor him. And a sixth to put him down...but three of those hits were way too far back...and would have likely been much better placed with an additional 100-200 FPS.

As previously stated; the 100 - 120gr bullets are the best all-around performers in the Grendel.

 

[AZBackcountry]

I have shoot 123 AMax at coyotes and 123 SST at 100 lbs and bigger game. I have a Stihl MSA 120 battery operated chainsaw for the brush. You don't need to wear ear plugs, no gas smell and deer will not freak out from the sound. I was brushing out fire breaks in my lower property when a group of does where at the guzzler getting a drink and doing a photo-op. The pic shows what used to be 12 foot tall catclaw and mesquite.