Just wanted to hear opinions on shooting for group size in cold weather. I know different ammo's will be affected differently, some more than others. This was brought about while shooting today in calm, but 25 degree weather trying to do some ammo testing. Group sizes were so-so and did vary a bit as well so I wasn't sure if I should use this as hard data for what my rifle likes on account of the cold weather.
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Groups in cold weather
- Thread starter bmicek
- Start date
From my (limited) experience, what works well in warm weather doesn't necessarily translate in what works well in cold. For example, Wolf Match Extra worked great in 10/22 in warm weather and the groups opened up in the cold so much that I though there may be an issue with the rifle. Switched to SK Standard Plus in the cold, and the groups closed up considerably. They didn't get as good as when warm, but fell in the acceptable range for usage. Above 60 degrees, the Wolf Match Extra beats the SK Standard Plus by a small margin.
So I'm testing ammo in both cold and warm conditions and will change ammo accordingly.
So I'm testing ammo in both cold and warm conditions and will change ammo accordingly.
Rimfire is a fickle bitch. Winter time plays hell on the waxed bullets and poi in relation to poa. Barrel warms up then things come together nicely, cools off and now your throwing that first couple rounds off your group. I still shoot winter, but have to completely re-true my dope and zero come warmer temperatures.
This is just a direct copy from my post in the Vudoo thread where we were talking about it, so if you read that don't waste your time. But I figure the info is still relevant.
I have had the opportunity (misfortune) of being able to shoot a lot of rimfire from 100f down to below zero. I have found that with all other things being equal below 40f you may start to see some accuracy drop with some ammo, right around freezing normally I notice a definite drop in accuracy, from 20f up to freezing you will see some accuracy drop for sure (some ammo more than others) along with some odd flyers that you just cant explain, in the teens it gets worse with more frequent flyers, single digits and below all bets are off.
This is with normal match ammo, not Polar or Biathlon ammo. The specialty cold weather ammo will definitely handle the cold better than the "regular" match stuff, but I have never had any specialty cold weather ammo bring the accuracy in the extreme cold conditions to the level of regular match ammo in warm weather. But maybe that is because I am a bitch and don't like the cold.
I have had the opportunity (misfortune) of being able to shoot a lot of rimfire from 100f down to below zero. I have found that with all other things being equal below 40f you may start to see some accuracy drop with some ammo, right around freezing normally I notice a definite drop in accuracy, from 20f up to freezing you will see some accuracy drop for sure (some ammo more than others) along with some odd flyers that you just cant explain, in the teens it gets worse with more frequent flyers, single digits and below all bets are off.
This is with normal match ammo, not Polar or Biathlon ammo. The specialty cold weather ammo will definitely handle the cold better than the "regular" match stuff, but I have never had any specialty cold weather ammo bring the accuracy in the extreme cold conditions to the level of regular match ammo in warm weather. But maybe that is because I am a bitch and don't like the cold.
jbell - follow Mainer and friend of straydog here. Have you found that keeping the ammo warm makes a difference if the environmental conditions are cold? We're shooting a 200 yard rested match on Saturday in Damariscotta. (You're welcome if you want to drive over) Is it worth warming the ammo?
Another fellow Mainer here, my experience mirror much of what jbell, and other have experienced. 30-40 degrees is the threshold for me shooting Eley Edge. At 50m it’s no biggy but at 100m I see about 0.2 Mil of vertical on the first one or two shots and as the barrel warms up and the lube softens, she settles right down and tracks with the normal ballistic models. I also get a bit of drop in velocity, I mapped it out a few years back but I can’t remember exactly. Reliability (10/22) dropped of significantly as well, above freezing I typically have a MRBS around 300-400 but below freezing it’s more like a MRBS of 20-30, usually almost always “stove pipes”.
Typically I only hunt in the colder months and leave .22 ELR to the warmer parts of the year, realistic while hunting most shots are inside of 50m anyhow (80ish was probably the longest last year). So besides the occasional annoying stoppage the vertical is well inside of head shots on reds and with a 0.2 Mil shade it’s not much of a problem. If I was going to be competitive I’d either map the data out again or maybe experiment with the biathlon ammo.
Here’s results from last year with, all “coldbore”, head shots 5m to 80m over the course of 30-40 minutes.
Typically I only hunt in the colder months and leave .22 ELR to the warmer parts of the year, realistic while hunting most shots are inside of 50m anyhow (80ish was probably the longest last year). So besides the occasional annoying stoppage the vertical is well inside of head shots on reds and with a 0.2 Mil shade it’s not much of a problem. If I was going to be competitive I’d either map the data out again or maybe experiment with the biathlon ammo.
Here’s results from last year with, all “coldbore”, head shots 5m to 80m over the course of 30-40 minutes.
Warming ammo can help. Shooters use various methods from just putting a mag in their jacket to placing the mags in a heated container (i.e. small cooler with chemical hand warmers). The problem is once you hit a certain temperature, the barrel/chamber is cold enough to disappate the small amount of stored heat from the bullet rather quickly. Keeping the rifle warm between stages would have a much greater effect.
sshow bob- what sort of match is that you guys shoot at Damariscotta? Do you by chance know Bud Hedblom?
I have played with it, but not enough to know. Thanks for the invite, not sure I can make it to the match. What is the course of fire?
Its just 200 yard bench - nothing super exciting, but its what's available that day. I do better if there's a game than I do if I'm just screwing around, so I'm going to do it to make myself pay attention.
Did some shooting myself, yesterday, in 29 degree weather. But, my groups were fairly decent. Shot some 115 stacks, and 107 sierras. And the low grain ones grouped well. As I got higher in powder increment. Groups opened up. So I wonder the same, if I should take these groups serious, or not.
I wouldn’t be as concerned with a centerfire if you are using temp stable powder.
I have a Vudoo 22 and went out in -22C with it and Eley Tenex. It did not group like it should have - I even kept the ammo in my pocket but once a bullet gets jammed into -22C barrel it cools off too fast to make a difference IMO.
I went and shot at a indoor 50M range and it shot like it should have.
IMO the cold temps really affect the 22lrs ability to shoot well.
I went and shot at a indoor 50M range and it shot like it should have.
IMO the cold temps really affect the 22lrs ability to shoot well.
I don't mean to be an ass (although at times I am I suppose) but this conversation really only applies to rimfire. Although I have shot quite a bit of centerfire in temps at or below zero and my accuracy suffered a little, but that was probably because I was friggin' freezing! HA
I have shot in density altitudes around -4500, and that was with a 308 pushing a 175g SMK @ 2550 out to 900 yards. I tried to connect at 1100 and just was not consistent. I don't remember the specifics of that day but it was damn cold & the snow was deep!
I'm late to the party. Can't make it up there this Saturday sideshow. Next time I hope! I hope a Maine NRL.22 game gets rolling soon. Damariscotta or Scarborough would be great. I moved to Lapua Biathlon at jbell's suggestion and it's working out better at 200/300 than the SK match, tighter vertical, my problem is that wind stuff... Pretty sure Rudy and jbell know a bit about reading that wind... hope to see all you guys around this season. Sideshow, I KNOW I'll be seeing you soon! 
