Groups open up with thermal clipon
- Thread starter Dunraven
- Start date
That depends entirely on what thermal you’re using and how it’s mounted. With the resolution of even great thermals it’s hard to get as refined and consistent an aiming point. What you use as a target makes a big difference. If you’re using a non collimated clip on, mounted on the handguard/fore end, rail flex is a thing. Even my monolithic upper Lmt guns show rail deflection with normal loads.
It's not uncommon for a clip-on thermal to have a larger group size compared to a dedicated thermal or traditional dayscope. A 2-inch group at 100 yards and 4-inch group at 200 yards is within the expected range for a clip-on thermal. Depending on your needs and shooting style, you may want to consider a dedicated thermal if you require higher accuracy
As others have mentioned this is not too surprising, but totally depends on your setup. Can you provide:
Day scope and mag
Clip on
Height of each
Cant of each
Target used
Day scope and mag
Clip on
Height of each
Cant of each
Target used
This was absolutely not meant to be a criticism of the company. This is my first thermal, and I just wanted to know if this type of performance is to be expected. So, dayscope is Athlon, 2-12X(chosen to get low-level mag). Pulsar Krypton clipon. Height ?? Cant?? Target was hot hands, at dusk. Mounted on AR, .556. I'm fascinated by what I can see at night, and identify. I can see mice at at least 200 yards! If this is the expected performance of a clipon though, I would stay with Pulsar, and move to, say, the therminon, which I believe incorporates a laser rangefinder, all in the interest of better precision(I'm missing too many coyotes!).
All of what this guy said, particularly the part about having a less refined and consistent of an aiming point (in general) with thermal. That part is present no matter what thermal setup you have. Creating a target using aluminum foil that helps you get a more refined POA at the desired distance can help mitigate this, taking into account pixel size if possible.
Mr. Preachy is about to get preachy…
You don’t have a real clip on.
I’ve printed several sub MOA groups (with SH witnesses) with thermal clip ons. But they were real clip ons.
I’ve said a dozen times, and made goofy videos to prove the concepts, that commercial grade “zero the screen” clip ons aren’t in the same league as real clip ons… yes, my descriptions are lacking. Yes, my videos leave a lot to be desired. But damnit if I don’t keep seeing complaints about exactly what I warned about when people go the commercial “clip on” route
It’s totally fine to save money and get a pretend clip on (commercial clip on) (I own one myself). But expect constant issues from rail flex or RTZ mount issues as warned against constantly.
Unfortunately, even military clip ons (real clip ons) can have issues as witnessed with a few of the Theon units, so there’s no 100% perfect solution, but there’s definitely a way to bet and a way to save coin and they aren’t the same way.
This is NOT a “you’re poor” comment. It’s a “you didn’t budget enough for a clip on” comment. A $2500 used Super Hogster would have served you just fine. No big spending needed, even if you need to build an extra upper for it.
Clip ons, (real ones) cost a lot currently. If budget is priority, you can save a fortune by getting a dedicated thermal scope. For most use cases it’s actually a better device anyway. If you want to shoot small groups with a clip on (to a consistent POA), you need a real clip on.
Again, I own a fake clip on (and a real one) I get it… money matters… just don’t expect excellent results from mediocre budget.
You don’t have a real clip on.
I’ve printed several sub MOA groups (with SH witnesses) with thermal clip ons. But they were real clip ons.
I’ve said a dozen times, and made goofy videos to prove the concepts, that commercial grade “zero the screen” clip ons aren’t in the same league as real clip ons… yes, my descriptions are lacking. Yes, my videos leave a lot to be desired. But damnit if I don’t keep seeing complaints about exactly what I warned about when people go the commercial “clip on” route
It’s totally fine to save money and get a pretend clip on (commercial clip on) (I own one myself). But expect constant issues from rail flex or RTZ mount issues as warned against constantly.
Unfortunately, even military clip ons (real clip ons) can have issues as witnessed with a few of the Theon units, so there’s no 100% perfect solution, but there’s definitely a way to bet and a way to save coin and they aren’t the same way.
This is NOT a “you’re poor” comment. It’s a “you didn’t budget enough for a clip on” comment. A $2500 used Super Hogster would have served you just fine. No big spending needed, even if you need to build an extra upper for it.
Clip ons, (real ones) cost a lot currently. If budget is priority, you can save a fortune by getting a dedicated thermal scope. For most use cases it’s actually a better device anyway. If you want to shoot small groups with a clip on (to a consistent POA), you need a real clip on.
Again, I own a fake clip on (and a real one) I get it… money matters… just don’t expect excellent results from mediocre budget.
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Thank you for being truthful.
Unfortunately the lure of features the civilian "clip on" promises always seems to fall short in it's field performance.
Been there, done that.
SJC
I don't disagree with what is said above, but will also add to: I often hunt well before sun-up to well after sun-down. Taking 2 rifles out, one with day optic and one with night optic, doesn't make sense. I am not taking 500 yard shots on game in the dark, so I am not building a setup for that shot. Set up the rifle for the shot you WILL take, not the shot you MIGHT take. I cannot tell you how many shooters I have talked to that built a 1,000 yard gun but only shoot at 100 yard ranges.
If you are A. Shooting 4 inch groups at 200 yards and B. missing coyotes - then you aren't shooting inside a 4" group as believed, or you are taking >200 yard shots on yotes in the dark.
As said, there isn't a high precision clip on solution that is economical by most standards. I have a dedicated thermal upper and a few hunting rifles with thermal mounts - and the hunting rifles go out while the dedicated stays in the safe. Sure, maybe the dedicated might have put me on a yote at 400 yards when I wouldn't take that shot with the clip-on; but a bit of trigger discipline is a good thing...
Keep your shit zeroed, take high confidence shots, and practice practice practice. And, to be clear, that last part in infinitely more important than a more expensive optic...
If you are A. Shooting 4 inch groups at 200 yards and B. missing coyotes - then you aren't shooting inside a 4" group as believed, or you are taking >200 yard shots on yotes in the dark.
As said, there isn't a high precision clip on solution that is economical by most standards. I have a dedicated thermal upper and a few hunting rifles with thermal mounts - and the hunting rifles go out while the dedicated stays in the safe. Sure, maybe the dedicated might have put me on a yote at 400 yards when I wouldn't take that shot with the clip-on; but a bit of trigger discipline is a good thing...
Keep your shit zeroed, take high confidence shots, and practice practice practice. And, to be clear, that last part in infinitely more important than a more expensive optic...
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