Gun Sales Up, Gun Crimes Down

[KillShot]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How tragic for Comrade Obama: the one positive result of his presidency is something no liberal could ever admit to. By terrifying Americans into buying guns in record numbers, he has lowered the rate of crimes committed with guns, because as every countermoonbat knows, more guns = less crime:

Despite [sic] increases in gun sales, gun crimes continued to decrease in the United States for the fourth straight year in 2010, according to the FBI.

The FBI recently released its Crime in The United States statistics for 2010. Overall, murders in the U.S. have decreased steadily since 2006, dropping from 15,087 to 12,996. Firearms murders — which made up 67 percent of all murders in the U.S. in 2010 — have followed this trend, decreasing by 14 percent.

At the same time that firearms murders were dropping, gun sales were surging. In 2009, FBI background checks for guns increased by 30 percent over the previous year, while firearms sales in large retail outlets increased by almost 40 percent. The number of applications for concealed carry permits jumped across the country as well.

An armed society is a polite society, as well as a free one. Ultra-liberal DC stands or rather slumps in stark contrast:

Broken down by firearms murder rate per 100,000 people, the District of Columbia is number one, with 16 firearms murders per 100,000 people in the District.

D.C. also topped the list of firearm robberies per 100,000 people with 255.98.

Yet D.C. arguably has the tightest gun laws in the country. Although an outright ban on handguns was struck down by the Supreme Court in 2008, legislators ensured the new regulations for obtaining a registered handgun would be anything but easy.

This ensures that only criminals are able to acquire guns easily, which is why DC’s gun crime rates are so high.

Freedom from excessive government relieves most of society’s ills; crime is no exception.
</div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">It's too simple for nuanced liberals to grasp. </span>

Source – Moonbattery

 

[mattr25]

Re: Gun Sales Up, Gun Crimes Down

Maybe one day the liberals will understand that guns are not the problem. The problem is all the criminals and they will always have guns. And if "We the people" are denied the right to bear arms then the criminals will run rampant. It is easy to not need to carry a firearm to protect yourself when you are riding in a armored limo and have 4 armed secret service agents with you. But we shouldn't have guns right? Go figure. Sounds about like a lot of other laws passed by those that do not have to follow them.

 

[Mudcat-NC]

Re: Gun Sales Up, Gun Crimes Down

Liberals will never understand that simple principal as they think with their hearts and not their heads. Thats why you can never argue with them and win, even if all the facts are in your favor.

 

[High Binder]

Re: Gun Sales Up, Gun Crimes Down

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mudcat-NC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Liberals will never understand that simple principal as they think with their hearts and not their heads. </div></div>

Think bigger picture. They understand it very well. It's about control, guns are just a rung.

 

[old95b10]

Re: Gun Sales Up, Gun Crimes Down

Gun's are just a step in the big picture!
You will have No Right to protect yourself one day.
Just wait for that. It is coming.

 

[Zion4]

Re: Gun Sales Up, Gun Crimes Down

"Wait so that means that more guns does not equal more crime? Noo...couldn't be! Guns are terrible and their only purpose is to kill people."

Looks like all of the hippies and anti-gun activists were wrong. Oops.

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Gun Sales Up, Gun Crimes Down

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mudcat-NC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Liberals will never understand that simple principal as they think with their hearts and not their heads. </div></div>

Think bigger picture. They understand it very well. It's about control, guns are just a rung. </div></div>

yup.

Time and again, these stats are published and time and again nothing from any LEA on the benefits of more prevalent gun ownership. Nooo...

 

[amtmn]

Re: Gun Sales Up, Gun Crimes Down

Well, Im just a patrol sgt from a suburban pd and this may not mean much but Ill weigh in.

I asked my officers one day why after all these years we havent been involved in an officer involved shooting? And even though our community has our share of violence, was it just because we work the suburbs and not the inner city with a skyrocketing crime rate?

I got a few blank looks. I told them that since our state is very pro gun rights that has had an impact on our very department and us as well. I told them that the fear that an honest citizen defending themselves is enough to keep a certain percentage of criminals from going through with something. (the ball-less ones anyway).

I told them the deterence that firearms create, made an atmosphere where they, the patrol officers, have not had to respond to too many calls of armed individuals, or to armed robberies, home invasions and etc. It is my belief that less of these things have occurred because of the criminals fear of being shot by a "victim".

I also told them, that the honest gun owning citizen is the best thing LE has going for it, and that yes the potential for violence by firearms is present...but is severly outweighed by the good that is created by the law abiding gun owner.

Im an officer in Texas which is very pro gun rights. This is just my opinion but it may not apply everywhere the same. I also tend to have a bit of a libertarian/constitutionalist streak. But yes, sections of LE do recongnize that an armed citizen creates a safer environment. I just take it a step further and recognize that armed citizens keep me safer as a law officer. (generally speaking that is)Youre never going to hear law enforcement agencies officially admit to that unfortunatley.

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Gun Sales Up, Gun Crimes Down

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: amtmn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, Im just a patrol sgt from a suburban pd and this may not mean much but Ill weigh in.

I asked my officers one day why after all these years we havent been involved in an officer involved shooting? And even though our community has our share of violence, was it just because we work the suburbs and not the inner city with a skyrocketing crime rate?

I got a few blank looks. I told them that since our state is very pro gun rights that has had an impact on our very department and us as well. I told them that the fear that an honest citizen defending themselves is enough to keep a certain percentage of criminals from going through with something. (the ball-less ones anyway).

I told them the deterence that firearms create, made an atmosphere where they, the patrol officers, have not had to respond to too many calls of armed individuals, or to armed robberies, home invasions and etc. It is my belief that less of these things have occurred because of the criminals fear of being shot by a "victim".

I also told them, that the honest gun owning citizen is the best thing LE has going for it, and that yes the potential for violence by firearms is present...but is severly outweighed by the good that is created by the law abiding gun owner.

Im an officer in Texas which is very pro gun rights. This is just my opinion but it may not apply everywhere the same. I also tend to have a bit of a libertarian/constitutionalist streak. But yes, sections of LE do recongnize that an armed citizen creates a safer environment. I just take it a step further and recognize that armed citizens keep me safer as a law officer. (generally speaking that is)<span style="color: #FF0000">Youre never going to hear law enforcement agencies officially admit to that unfortunatley.</span> </div></div>

Firstly, wish we have more you of everywhere!

Secondly, why not? Seriously, why do you think they would never admit this? Is it top brass policy or do most LEOs at every level feel that encouraging gun ownership is against their interests? It just doesn't make sense.

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: Gun Sales Up, Gun Crimes Down

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: amtmn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, Im just a patrol sgt from a suburban pd and this may not mean much but Ill weigh in.

I asked my officers one day why after all these years we havent been involved in an officer involved shooting? And even though our community has our share of violence, was it just because we work the suburbs and not the inner city with a skyrocketing crime rate?

I got a few blank looks. I told them that since our state is very pro gun rights that has had an impact on our very department and us as well. I told them that the fear that an honest citizen defending themselves is enough to keep a certain percentage of criminals from going through with something. (the ball-less ones anyway).

I told them the deterence that firearms create, made an atmosphere where they, the patrol officers, have not had to respond to too many calls of armed individuals, or to armed robberies, home invasions and etc. It is my belief that less of these things have occurred because of the criminals fear of being shot by a "victim".

I also told them, that the honest gun owning citizen is the best thing LE has going for it, and that yes the potential for violence by firearms is present...but is severly outweighed by the good that is created by the law abiding gun owner.

Im an officer in Texas which is very pro gun rights. This is just my opinion but it may not apply everywhere the same. I also tend to have a bit of a libertarian/constitutionalist streak. But yes, sections of LE do recongnize that an armed citizen creates a safer environment. I just take it a step further and recognize that armed citizens keep me safer as a law officer. (generally speaking that is)Youre never going to hear law enforcement agencies officially admit to that unfortunatley.</div></div>

I hope you are the attorney general someday. We need more leo like you! Thanks for all you do, and especially the attitude and philosophy with which you are doing it.

 

[GreyShirts]

Re: Gun Sales Up, Gun Crimes Down

I agree amtmn, I'm a Sgt. in Oklahoma and work for a large department. I'm 100% for lawful gun carrying citizens, as long as they keep up on their training and safety. This was one of the first Christmas' we've(our agency) had where their were'nt a lot of home invasions. We did have a few, but nothing like what it has been in the past. However, violent crimes against officers has dramatically gone up over the past 2-3yrs. Those crimes being committed against officers was by straight criminals and not law abiding citizens. When families ask me what their rights are if someone is trying to break in while they are home, my answer is always the same. Buy a gun if you don't already own one, familiarize yourself with it, go to a concealed carry class, and practice whenever you can. If someone is trying to break into your home you have every right to protect yourself. However, you can't shoot someone on your front porch, they have to be breaking the threshold of your door, window, or wall. Now, if you are carrying in public "legally". You dang well better be able to justify the need to use your weapon. Also, hope to god or whoever you choose that some new aspiring DA doesn't get your case. We had one of those recently, one of the attorneys from the DA's office wanted to put him in prison. Guy was a true victim trying to protect himself.

Someone asked why don't departments admit this? (My Theory) Brass has to beable to justify policies they put in place. Also, departments are affraid of possible outcomes if they were to admit such a thing. Can you imagine all the people that would come out of the wood work carrying a gun. Bad news is, those people...already own one and do. These days, just think of police departments as "big business". I love the idea of gun owning citizens, as long as it is legal, and they stay current of training. It helps me do my job.

 

[RemingtonSPS]

Re: Gun Sales Up, Gun Crimes Down

I read a newspaper comic one time that cracked me up but it was so true.

"Why do shootings always happen at malls and schools? (other guy) For the same reason they don't at gun ranges."

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: Gun Sales Up, Gun Crimes Down

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: amtmn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, Im just a patrol sgt from a suburban pd and this may not mean much but Ill weigh in.

I asked my officers one day why after all these years we havent been involved in an officer involved shooting? And even though our community has our share of violence, was it just because we work the suburbs and not the inner city with a skyrocketing crime rate?

I got a few blank looks. I told them that since our state is very pro gun rights that has had an impact on our very department and us as well. I told them that the fear that an honest citizen defending themselves is enough to keep a certain percentage of criminals from going through with something. (the ball-less ones anyway).

I told them the deterence that firearms create, made an atmosphere where they, the patrol officers, have not had to respond to too many calls of armed individuals, or to armed robberies, home invasions and etc. It is my belief that less of these things have occurred because of the criminals fear of being shot by a "victim".

I also told them, that the honest gun owning citizen is the best thing LE has going for it, and that yes the potential for violence by firearms is present...but is severly outweighed by the good that is created by the law abiding gun owner.

Im an officer in Texas which is very pro gun rights. This is just my opinion but it may not apply everywhere the same. I also tend to have a bit of a libertarian/constitutionalist streak. But yes, sections of LE do recongnize that an armed citizen creates a safer environment. I just take it a step further and recognize that armed citizens keep me safer as a law officer. (generally speaking that is)<span style="color: #FF0000">Youre never going to hear law enforcement agencies officially admit to that unfortunatley.</span> </div></div>

Firstly, wish we have more you of everywhere!

Secondly, why not? Seriously, why do you think they would never admit this? Is it top brass policy or do most LEOs at every level feel that encouraging gun ownership is against their interests? It just doesn't make sense.</div></div>

I may be wrong, but in my experience ( everything from patrol to management), it started as a money issue, and now has simply evolved into "that's what I've always known"...

ON the 1st of August 1966, a former Marine names Charles Joseph Whitman went on a shooting spree at the University of Texes Austin campus, resulting in 16 dead and 32 wounded. Whitman was eventually killed by an Austin PD officer named Houston McCoy, but he held the university tower from around 11:48am until 1:24pm. Mainly because the police were severely under trained and under equipped for the situation (what most people forget is that armed citizens assisted police w/ their personal firearms and were credited by the police involved for their contribution in saving lives).

After the Univ. of Texas shooting the LE arms race began, SWAT teams were formed nationwide, LE used the incident to say "we need more money, so we can better protect the public". That statement has been used by LE after any news worthy crime since, North Hollywood, Columbine, etc, etc.

And after each incident it gets worse, it was SWAT for years, then West Hollywood and Columbine suggested that responding officers needed more equipment and training.

Add to this that every high profile shooting has been used to say that guns create violence and it's a "snowball effect", "citizens with firearms are bad" plus "police need more, so they can protect you".

So now we've had 2-3 whole generations of LE that have been taught this (along w/ the public), and we end up w/ LEOs that are really good people, but they truely don't know that they shouldn't fear an armed public, they deal mainly w/ the bad, which reinforces what they've been taught, they're not by and large "gun guys", nor are their families. They don't deal often w/ honest people who have guns, they don't hear about the times that a legal gun, in the hands of Joe Average, stops a crime. Everything they see points to the us vs them attitude. So they keep thinking that people outside LE w/ guns should be feared, they must be criminals or they "might be criminals", the thought that they're an honest citizen, that would fight the local dope dealer right along side you in a fire fight never enters their mind. If it's pointed out, they've been taught that you'd just be in the way because you're not trained. So the public is generally lopped into one of a few categories... felons, future felons, former felons, or idiots.

It's not their fault, they simply don't understand.

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: Gun Sales Up, Gun Crimes Down

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: amtmn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, Im just a patrol sgt from a suburban pd and this may not mean much but Ill weigh in.

I asked my officers one day why after all these years we havent been involved in an officer involved shooting? And even though our community has our share of violence, was it just because we work the suburbs and not the inner city with a skyrocketing crime rate?

I got a few blank looks. I told them that since our state is very pro gun rights that has had an impact on our very department and us as well. I told them that the fear that an honest citizen defending themselves is enough to keep a certain percentage of criminals from going through with something. (the ball-less ones anyway).

I told them the deterence that firearms create, made an atmosphere where they, the patrol officers, have not had to respond to too many calls of armed individuals, or to armed robberies, home invasions and etc. It is my belief that less of these things have occurred because of the criminals fear of being shot by a "victim".

I also told them, that the honest gun owning citizen is the best thing LE has going for it, and that yes the potential for violence by firearms is present...but is severly outweighed by the good that is created by the law abiding gun owner.

Im an officer in Texas which is very pro gun rights. This is just my opinion but it may not apply everywhere the same. I also tend to have a bit of a libertarian/constitutionalist streak. But yes, sections of LE do recongnize that an armed citizen creates a safer environment. I just take it a step further and recognize that armed citizens keep me safer as a law officer. (generally speaking that is)<span style="color: #FF0000">Youre never going to hear law enforcement agencies officially admit to that unfortunatley.</span> </div></div>

Firstly, wish we have more you of everywhere!

Secondly, why not? Seriously, why do you think they would never admit this? Is it top brass policy or do most LEOs at every level feel that encouraging gun ownership is against their interests? It just doesn't make sense.</div></div>

I may be wrong, but in my experience ( everything from patrol to management), it started as a money issue, and now has simply evolved into "that's what I've always known"...

ON the 1st of August 1966, a former Marine names Charles Joseph Whitman went on a shooting spree at the University of Texes Austin campus, resulting in 16 dead and 32 wounded. Whitman was eventually killed by an Austin PD officer named Houston McCoy, but he held the university tower from around 11:48am until 1:24pm. Mainly because the police were severely under trained and under equipped for the situation (what most people forget is that armed citizens assisted police w/ their personal firearms and were credited by the police involved for their contribution in saving lives).

After the Univ. of Texas shooting the LE arms race began, SWAT teams were formed nationwide, LE used the incident to say "we need more money, so we can better protect the public". That statement has been used by LE after any news worthy crime since, North Hollywood, Columbine, etc, etc.

And after each incident it gets worse, it was SWAT for years, then West Hollywood and Columbine suggested that responding officers needed more equipment and training.

Add to this that every high profile shooting has been used to say that guns create violence and it's a "snowball effect", "citizens with firearms are bad" plus "police need more, so they can protect you".

So now we've had 2-3 whole generations of LE that have been taught this (along w/ the public), and we end up w/ LEOs that are really good people, but they truely don't know that they shouldn't fear an armed public, they deal mainly w/ the bad, which reinforces what they've been taught, they're not by and large "gun guys", nor are their families. They don't deal often w/ honest people who have guns, they don't hear about the times that a legal gun, in the hands of Joe Average, stops a crime. Everything they see points to the us vs them attitude. So they keep thinking that people outside LE w/ guns should be feared, they must be criminals or they "might be criminals", the thought that they're an honest citizen, that would fight the local dope dealer right along side you in a fire fight never enters their mind. If it's pointed out, they've been taught that you'd just be in the way because you're not trained. So the public is generally lopped into one of a few categories... felons, future felons, former felons, or idiots.

It's not their fault, they simply don't understand.

</div></div>

Your right and wrong at the same time. It also boils down to your geographical location as well. Lots of inner-city departments, especially ones in states where they are not gun friendly, mainly concern themselves with guns that will be used by criminals, and not the ones the civillian population has. There isn't some conspiracy, it is just overlooked, especially if there is a high rate of officer involved shootings. When there are more criminals with guns vs. civillians, the cops will not be looking to positively on any gun. I was trained in a rural department, in a gun friendly state. There is, however, still some, but not a lot, of firearm violence here, but I have yet to find a LEO here that looks down on, or doesnt promote the legal ownership of firearms. Its your right.

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: Gun Sales Up, Gun Crimes Down

you're right desertrat...


I don't argue that fact, I was speaking more along the lines of the national organizations, which are typically dominated by larger urban LE leadership. Whom are also the people typically picked for federal appointment.

There are always exceptions, which are found way more often in small deptartments in rural hunter friendly areas, but these examples are also a small percentage of LE. Put in perspective... New York city has just over 36,000 uniformed officers as of Dec. 2011, I'd bet that's more than several states have total in the state. Add all the other large cities, and they have a HUGE influence over LE as whole. Here in Oklahoma for example most small deptartments follow Tulsa and OKC's leads, who tend to follow LAPD, NYPD, etc, etc.

but there are exceptions... especially, I'm sure in states like AZ, MT, etc.


and I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, or even concious... but it does influence all of LE...
you can't tell me that when you see a person w/ a firearm you don't get just a little nervous... otherwise we wouldn't have so many situations, justifiably so most times, of LE disarming citizens who are in legal possession of a firearm.

 

[RemingtonSPS]

Re: Gun Sales Up, Gun Crimes Down

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

and I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, or even concious... but it does influence all of LE...
you can't tell me that when you see a person w/ a firearm you don't get just a little nervous... otherwise we wouldn't have so many situations, justifiably so most times, of LE disarming citizens who are in legal possession of a firearm. </div></div>

I dont get nervous when i see a guy with a gun unless he's on the street holding it in his hands. Its not uncommon to go to a gun store or be out hunting and see a guy open carry.