Gunsmithing Gunsmith for SMLE Project

[C. Stockwell]

I have a SMLE barreled action. BSA made the receiver before WW1, I believe, based on various stamps. I also believe that the barrel is a FR (refurb) from Ishapore made in 1940. The bore is full of gunk but has very sharp, clear, and discernible rifling. There's no bolt, stock, or magazine, and some of the fire controls and the like are missing. What I think happened was the gun came in as surplus as a drill rifle and someone harvested parts off. The receiver has specks of yellow-brown paint, meaning the gun was at some point relegated to second-line, drill purpose.

I don't have the tools, space, or knowledge to headspace a new bolt and fit a new magazine and stock to the gun. The barreled action also needs to be refinished because its pretty rough. I cleaned it up with Hoppe's, but it still needs some advanced TLC. I also want to talk to someone who's done something like this before.

Here's my question: does anyone know a gunsmith, preferably in New England, who would be willing to fit the gun together? I'm also trying to figure out what form the finished gun will take. The gun will basically have no value because it'll be made from non-matching parts. I'm debating between restoring it to a pre-WW1, Edwardian configuration, to its 1940 refurb condition, or to have the gun drilled and tapped to become a "sniper" clone (options are WW1, WW2 Aussie, or Rhodesian BSAP) or a sporter. Obviously, sourcing parts for say a pre-WW1 or sniper clone would be the most difficult to do, and I need some help.

Thanks in advance!

 

[FisherT&C]

This maybe a great project for a gunsmithing student. Maybe contact the gunsmithing school in Pennsylvania. This sounds like alot of internet searches and phone calls tracking down parts which will discourage most working gunsmiths. Ahlmans in Minnesota maybe a good place to start looking for parts. If you could round up most parts by yourself that would help.

 

[C. Stockwell]

This maybe a great project for a gunsmithing student. Maybe contact the gunsmithing school in Pennsylvania. This sounds like alot of internet searches and phone calls tracking down parts which will discourage most working gunsmiths. Ahlmans in Minnesota maybe a good place to start looking for parts. If you could round up most parts by yourself that would help.

Right, I don't mind sourcing parts. That I can do.

 

[Ranchhand]

This is a cool project, please post how it turns out.

 

[Lange Carabine]

First off you need to see how well that bore will clean up. No sense in going to all the trouble and expense(this ain't gonna be done on the cheap) to restore it if its toast.
Do you see the letters D.P. stamped anywhere on the barrel or reciever? If so dont even consider restoring it to shooter status.
My suggestion on a gunsmith to evaluate and properly refinish/restore it would be BDL LTD in Edgefield S.C. Brian Dick is the owner/operator and has a deep knowledge of Enfields plus the tools and gauges to do it right. He may even be able to supply some of the parts needed.

 

[C. Stockwell]

First off you need to see how well that bore will clean up. No sense in going to all the trouble and expense(this ain't gonna be done on the cheap) to restore it if its toast.
Do you see the letters D.P. stamped anywhere on the barrel or reciever? If so dont even consider restoring it to shooter status.
My suggestion on a gunsmith to evaluate and properly refinish/restore it would be BDL LTD in Edgefield S.C. Brian Dick is the owner/operator and has a deep knowledge of Enfields plus the tools and gauges to do it right. He may even be able to supply some of the parts needed.

The barrel and receiver ARE NOT marked "D.P." The Indians or Brits also took the time to update the gun from MkVI ball to MkVII, as the gun has a "H.V.S.C." mark.

 

[Wannashootit]

Century Arms bought all the inventory from Springfield Sporters when he decided to close shop- they look to have quite a bit.
Sarco also has a lot of parts for the Enfield.

 

[C. Stockwell]

I cleaned most of the gunk out of the bore. The rifling looks nice but a little worn. It would probably clean up after a really intensive cleaning. Patches come out mostly brown, with the first few coming out black. A couple had blue tint, probably indicating corrosive ammo.

Its not the best bore I've ever seen but its not that bad in comparison to examples of pitted and frosted bores I've seen online. Any tips for taking good bore pictures?

Edit: I let the gun sit awhile and put a few more patches through and it looks a lot better. I'll probably keep cleaning the bore over a few nights.

 

[Wannashootit]

Never worked on one, but IIRC there are 4 or 5 sizes/dimensions for the boltheads.
You could purchase a complete bolt assembly, then check (or have a local smith do it) and that will tell you if you may have gotten lucky- or if the bolthead needs to be swapped for one of the correct size. It's a rimmed cartridge, and the boltheads can be swapped to adjust headspace.

However, i would recommend taking it to a smith for a quick visual i inspection of the receiver, including lug abutments and chamber to confirm it's serviceable before sinking any $$ into it.

 

[Lange Carabine]

Never worked on one, but IIRC there are 4 or 5 sizes/dimensions for the boltheads.
You could purchase a complete bolt assembly, then check (or have a local smith do it) and that will tell you if you may have gotten lucky- or if the bolthead needs to be swapped for one of the correct size. It's a rimmed cartridge, and the boltheads can be swapped to adjust headspace.

However, i would recommend taking it to a smith for a quick visual i inspection of the receiver, including lug abutments and chamber to confirm it's serviceable before sinking any $$ into it.

No.4 LE's had different length bolt heads (0 - 4) but the No.1's were all the same.
The numbers on No.4 bolt heads are a bit misleading, never assume all #3's will be longer than all #2's. It's also not unheard of to find the odd #1 that's actually longer than the average #3.

 

[Ledzep]

Headspace is easy to check with a gauge. It's going to be a matter of buying bolt heads and finding one that works. Just depends on where the threads clock.

Otherwise, the trigger components are pretty straight forward-- look up some pictures/videos on dissassembly and you'll figure it out. There's a "U" shaped spring that drives everything and I believe 2 pinned in levers (trigger sear and mag catch) that hold it in place if I recall. The safety is straight forward but tricky because I think it's 3 or 4 point threads. You just have to sit there and find which orientation it needs to start at to land in the correct place when in the assembled configuration.

Unless you have to have a new barrel screwed on, it should all be doable by someone at home with no real exotic tools-- That is until you start talking about putting optics on it. I believe parts sourcing will likely be the most difficult part of this project up to that point.

 

[bpd459]

Greetings,
Check LPRgunsmith.com Larry Racine in NH. First class work, Old school craftsmanship. He is a great guy.
John

 

[packratt]

Try posting up in the vintage forum. Several have had Smiles done.

 

[C. Stockwell]

Headspace is easy to check with a gauge. It's going to be a matter of buying bolt heads and finding one that works. Just depends on where the threads clock.

Otherwise, the trigger components are pretty straight forward-- look up some pictures/videos on dissassembly and you'll figure it out. There's a "U" shaped spring that drives everything and I believe 2 pinned in levers (trigger sear and mag catch) that hold it in place if I recall. The safety is straight forward but tricky because I think it's 3 or 4 point threads. You just have to sit there and find which orientation it needs to start at to land in the correct place when in the assembled configuration.

Unless you have to have a new barrel screwed on, it should all be doable by someone at home with no real exotic tools-- That is until you start talking about putting optics on it. I believe parts sourcing will likely be the most difficult part of this project up to that point.

Thankfully, I've got an intact and functional (I think) safety and the three fire control components you describe are already installed. I'm not trying to put a new barrel on. I bought this because it had a barrel on it and if a gunsmith thinks that the barrel is toast, I'll probably just try to get my money back via Gunbroker or wherever and consider it a lesson in SMLE markings.

Greetings,
Check LPRgunsmith.com Larry Racine in NH. First class work, Old school craftsmanship. He is a great guy.
John

Thanks for the tip, I've seen Larry's website before. I think I'll reach out to him to see if he thinks the "gun" is safe to be built back into a shooter and what he thinks about the barrel.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Likely would not be even close to economical to restore vs. buy a good one.

I just picked up two partial actions and a ‘decent’ SMLE shooter for a few hundred dollars to build two Delisle replicas off of. I’ve not done any gunsmithing on SMLE’s. But will post in Vintage thread as project starts.

you can still buy nice guns for short $$. Assembling a derelict is spendy and it’s still a bursa unless you want the experience... not the final product.

Cheers, Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

BTW ,YouTube can be a horrid rabbit hole... but can also produce some worthwhile videos for home gunsmith and tinkerer.

This is just one of many. Not watched, so may be awful. Some truly are! But there are more out there.

Sirhr

 

[C. Stockwell]

Likely would not be even close to economical to restore vs. buy a good one.

Oh, don't worry, I knew that going into this

I just picked up two partial actions and a ‘decent’ SMLE shooter for a few hundred dollars to build two Delisle replicas off of. I’ve not done any gunsmithing on SMLE’s. But will post in Vintage thread as project starts.

you can still buy nice guns for short $$. Assembling a derelict is spendy and it’s still a bursa unless you want the experience... not the final product.

Cheers, Sirhr

My original idea was to build this into a BSAP scoped sniper clone, until I found out that the receiver was an old, pre-WW1 BSA. The shop I bought this from had no idea what it was beyond being a SMLE. At the time, I thought it was an Ishapore that I could mount a scope onto with no qualms about destroying something historic - Indian SMLEs being rather numerous.

So, my interest here is to bring the rifle back into working condition because its become a really interesting research project. Worse comes to worse, now I know what it is and can re-sell if needed, or could even restore it to being a wallhanger if I put it back together without say a firing pin.

 

[ddavis]

Enfield #1 MKIII Drill Purpose Bolt Action Rifle, 303 British, Ishapore SMLE, C&R, Used, Non-Firing.

Ishapore Enfield #1 MKIII SMLE bolt action rifle chambered in 303 British - Drill Purpose non-firing rifle for display or parts. Original #1 MKIII Ishapore mfg surplus DP rifle featuring 25.5" barrel, 10rd removable magazine, black finish, graduated

www.jgsales.com

Here you go. Buy one of these for $120 and use all the parts for your barreled action. Easy and cheap. You happened to pick a great time to do this while these DP rifles are available for cheap. Just a few years ago you would have paid almost $200 for just a stock.

 

[C. Stockwell]

Update on this: the barreled action is on its way to BDL LTD in South Carolina. First priority is seeing if the barrel is good enough to warrant restoration. If so, awesome. If not, there's always the option of turning the gun into a faux DeLisle:

 

[C. Stockwell]

BDL emailed me and the rifle's bore is in-spec and should make a decent shooter. BDL has most of the metal parts, so the restoration's going to begin.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

BDL emailed me and the rifle's bore is in-spec and should make a decent shooter. BDL has most of the metal parts, so the restoration's going to begin.

Does BDL have firing pins? I need one for DeLisle project....

I have a spare (nice!) barrel if you need one.

Sirhr

 

[C. Stockwell]

Does BDL have firing pins? I need one for DeLisle project....

I have a spare (nice!) barrel if you need one.

Sirhr

Probably has firing pins, he said he could put a bolt together for my gun. All set on a barrel, but thanks for the offer.

 

[C. Stockwell]

Couple updates on this...

(1) Got the gun back from Brian Dick of BDL LTD. My first reaction was "hey, it looks like a gun now!" and not a rusted pipe. Brian fitted a bolt, fixed the safety, and cleaned the gunk from the bore and most of the rust off. I also bought a South African magazine from him.

I've found a seller of reproduction wood:

https://www.prestigiouswoodstocks.c...c-wood-restoration-kit?variant=39575065460802

So, I'll need that stock set plus all the accompanying metal parts, like a nosecap, barrel band, and buttplate.

(2) Brian's emails to me stated that the gun should be good to shoot, but that the throat had some erosion. Because of the throat erosion, my accuracy expectations for this gun are pretty low, but that's fine for a cobbled together milsurp that I might shoot a few times a year. I've always thought the No. 1 MkIII was the best looking wood and steel bolt action military rifle, so I'll be more than happy to have one that I can take out on occasion plinking. I figure, worst case scenario, 6MOA at 25 yards is 1.5" groups

 

[Lange Carabine]

You figuring on fitting the new wood yourself or sending it back to Brian?

Brian may have mentioned this already but the best accuracy with "cord worn" barrels(the Brit term for throat erosion caused by cordite ammo) is usually achieved by using long, flat based bullets.
A good choice for factory loads is Winchester 180gr PP, Remington 180 Corelokt and Federal 180gr Power Shok.
If you reload, the 180gr Sierra Pro Hunter is a good choice.
Another would be the 215gr Woodleigh Weldcore but i dont imagine they'll be easy to find nowadays, and expensive if you do.
You can try boattails if you want, you may get lucky and get descent accuracy, but Enfields with cord worn barrels almost never shoot them very well. Its not unusual for them to keyhole at 50yds from barrels with really worn throats.

 

[C. Stockwell]

You figuring on fitting the new wood yourself or sending it back to Brian?

Brian may have mentioned this already but the best accuracy with "cord worn" barrels(the Brit term for throat erosion caused by cordite ammo) is usually achieved by using long, flat based bullets.
A good choice for factory loads is Winchester 180gr PP, Remington 180 Corelokt and Federal 180gr Power Shok.
If you reload, the 180gr Sierra Pro Hunter is a good choice.
Another would be the 215gr Woodleigh Weldcore but i dont imagine they'll be easy to find nowadays, and expensive if you do.
You can try boattails if you want, you may get lucky and get descent accuracy, but Enfields with cord worn barrels almost never shoot them very well. Its not unusual for them to keyhole at 50yds from barrels with really worn throats.

Leaning towards sending the wood set + action to BDL or another gunsmith to put together. I once had a John Jovino & Co. 1942 Australian No. 1 MkIII* and the wood was bone dry when I got it. The stock also didn't have the reinforcing lugs necessary for the coachwood stock. I tried putting some BLO on the stock and I think the contraction + swelling of the wood was what caused that gun to not be able to hit the broad side of a barn.

Consequently, I'm very leery of bedding issues on No. 1 MkIIIs and I'd rather have a gunsmith do the work.

Because I'm not going to shoot this gun much, mostly just a sunny day at the range gun, I don't mind springing for Woodleighs. I actually have a Woodleigh handloading manual.

http://www.huntingtons.com/store/product.php?productid=19949&cat=408&page=1

 

[sinister]

Private B. Coffman from New South Wales served as a sniper in Korea in 1951 with a Lithgow No. 1 Mk. III*, the Australian Lee Enfield (SMLE). I think this is a perfect example for the Vintage Sniper Rifle Match at the National Matches at Camp Perry:

 

[sinister]

A sniper from 'C' Company, 5th Battalion, The Black Watch, 51st (Highland) Division, in position in a ruined building in Gennep, Holland, 14 February 1945.

 

[MikeinTexas]

A real sniper wouldn’t stick the end of his rifle out the window, or he wouldn’t be a sniper long.

/drift

 

[Rudy Gonsior]

A real sniper wouldn’t stick the end of his rifle out the window, or he wouldn’t be a sniper long.

/drift

You do a lot of sniping or do you just parrot things you read on the internet?

To the OP, super excited to see how this project turns out. I’ve alway had a soft spot for the SMLE.

 

[MikeinTexas]

Nope, I’m not a sniper. I was a small arms instructor while I served in the USCG, where I taught the M2, M60, M240B, M16, REM 870 shotgun, M9, M1911 & the Sig P229DAK. I also served on boarding teams where I was a team member and boarding officer enforcing our country’s laws at sea. After that I became a street cop. During all that, I might have learned a few things on tactics that work and tactics that will get you dead. And rule one is don’t get dead. But by all means go ahead and tear someone down for pointing out sound tactics.

 

[Rudy Gonsior]

So as not a sniper, you’re going to get butt hurt about me pointing out that your understanding of sniper tactics is notional? You seemed quite confident earlier in declaring the actual sniper in question was not even such, when he clearly is and it’s entirely possible he has shot more Nazis in the face than both of us combined.

I don’t want to tear you down but I am severely disappointed when ignorance wins out over curiosity. People sometimes have tendency to regurgitate such sniper maxims without regard for context.

There are in fact tactical advantages to be gained in certain circumstances by pressing closer to the window. A second and very likely possibly is the photo is simply stage and has no relevance to tactics at all. Staging photos is not a terribly uncommon thing and in fact it probably actually accounts for the majority of war time sniper photographs.

 

[FuhQ]

I have a SMLE barreled action. BSA made the receiver before WW1, I believe, based on various stamps. I also believe that the barrel is a FR (refurb) from Ishapore made in 1940. The bore is full of gunk but has very sharp, clear, and discernible rifling. There's no bolt, stock, or magazine, and some of the fire controls and the like are missing. What I think happened was the gun came in as surplus as a drill rifle and someone harvested parts off. The receiver has specks of yellow-brown paint, meaning the gun was at some point relegated to second-line, drill purpose.

I don't have the tools, space, or knowledge to headspace a new bolt and fit a new magazine and stock to the gun. The barreled action also needs to be refinished because its pretty rough. I cleaned it up with Hoppe's, but it still needs some advanced TLC. I also want to talk to someone who's done something like this before.

Here's my question: does anyone know a gunsmith, preferably in New England, who would be willing to fit the gun together? I'm also trying to figure out what form the finished gun will take. The gun will basically have no value because it'll be made from non-matching parts. I'm debating between restoring it to a pre-WW1, Edwardian configuration, to its 1940 refurb condition, or to have the gun drilled and tapped to become a "sniper" clone (options are WW1, WW2 Aussie, or Rhodesian BSAP) or a sporter. Obviously, sourcing parts for say a pre-WW1 or sniper clone would be the most difficult to do, and I need some help.

Thanks in advance!

Contact Mark Novak from Anvil Gunsmithing. He specializes in repairing/restoring vintage and antique military arms.