HAM Mast and/or Antenna Connundrum

[Sean the Nailer]

So, there being laws (local ordinances) against towers erected HIGHER than 54' (iirc) it is pretty-much clearly understood that no permits are required for erecting anything less. We bought ourselves a 30' mast here, guyed, a few years ago with the intents on "learning where is the best location/manner to put it up".

Seems to be a bit of a puzzle here, what-with the shape of the lot, the size and location of the buildings/outbuildings, and then complicate matters further by the need to put a boat into the backyard twice a year. In the Spring, and in the Fall. Otherwise, the boat is on the water in a slip, OR it's stored in a 'sealed-up' fashion on "the Point".

We've got 3 trees on this location, 2 in one place and 1 in another. Power Lines cross the backyard from the other side of the back-alley to the house. Another power line runs down the front of the property from 'the Point' to the street-light that is right beside the deck.

The house, being of 'sandwich construction' and of a Post 'n Beam design does not have an attic.

Right now, I'm sitting 8' away from my gutter, so I'm even thinking that suspending a dipole under the gutter is a no-go idea either.

I realized that what I've described so-far is near impossible without actually seeing/knowing the locale, but anyone have anything for a direction to suggest for either "blatant" mast/antenna erections OR hidden/surreptitious wires/antenna's for flying more "low-key"?

Guns, I'll give you the address/locale if you want to hit me with a PM. But I also figured that with a bit of Security Awareness that this in itself could be a bit of an interesting conversation.

Hypothetically speaking, of course. And yes, this is all for an HF rig.

 

[W54/XM-388]

This is probably a good one for @Gunfighter14e2

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

What bands are you looking to operate on?
Post a drawing ruffly to scale of the property & home too include peak heights, an we should be able to come up with something workable.
Your other option is a vertical but if you do one that requires radials you need the space for that. Your other option is a hex beam for 20 -6.
40-160 (or better) will require more dirt space if using a wire an depending the pattern you want so as not to have many nulls. A sloper may work for ya depending the pattern you want. You looking for general use or a single directional target? Loops work well also, depending band a 80-10 meter full wave will require +/- 275' depending target freq, an can be polarized either vertical or horizontal depending your needs/wants.
Do you have a metal roof?

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Do we have a metal roof- No, but we sure would like one
--to that though, we do get a heck of a snow-load. I'm assuming that too is a bit of a consideration.

General use, though in a perfect world I'll find a way to hit mid-Northern B.C. as well as Southern Texas and maybe Tennessee. Next hop would be Ireland.

Operating range of the radio is 0.5-30 Mhz (did I answer that one correctly?) The radio is a Xiegu G90, if that helps.

IIRC, my lot has 320' of Frontage, but that doesn't mean that I get to use it all. I just have the luxury of paying for it, yearly on property taxes.

Lot shape is 'Triangular', with the hypotenuse being the 320'.

That help? Guns, I'll hit you up with a PM.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

General use, though in a perfect world I'll find a way to hit mid-Northern B.C. as well as Southern Texas and maybe Tennessee. Next hop would be Ireland.

Operating range of the radio is 0.5-30 Mhz (did I answer that one correctly?) The radio is a Xiegu G90, if that helps.

Based on that (radio & reach wants) I would either build or buy a beam antenna. No matter how good of a wire antenna you build a Beam on a rotor will trump it quick, for reaching( aka DX). Place it as high as you can an never look back. For local stuff I'd build a wire dipole. Remember the total length of a 1/2 wave center feed dipole is 468/ the freq. Iets say you want to talk on 7.150 it would be 468/7.15 = 65.4 foot total w/32.7 ft each side of the fed point. Those numbers are based upon a 18 Gage wire, as you increase wire size the 468 number starts changing. For a full wave dipole or loop antenna use 1000 / freq for a 18 Gage wire. Many places on the web about building all kinds of antennas. Once you research an build the antenna your after Read & understand This.
Also remember a good antenna an placement will trump TX power.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Guns, just for a note when planning the antenna with Sean, the radio is 20W and is rated for 160 meters to 10 meters
AM, USB, LSB, and CW modes It does not do FM modes, that will be a later upgrade.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Also a SDRPlay SDR which can do 10kHz to 2GHz for receive, It doesn't do transmit, but can listen to just about any mode with the software package.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Guns, just for a note when planning the antenna with Sean, the radio is 20W and is rated for 160 meters to 10 meters
AM, USB, LSB, and CW modes It does not do FM modes, that will be a later upgrade.

With only 20 watts, his options are going to be limited if he wants to use voice(phone). For DX a rotatable beam needs to be used, an with only 20 watts max he should have no issue with CW or digital in average conditions. Wire will work, depending the target, but he's going to be hampered with 20 watts until the sun cycle changes. He could add or build a amp, but with only 20 watts drive, shelf bought amps would only produce about 150-200 max, which may not be worth the investment. He could build one to bump up to 100 watts but it's not much more money to increase to 600 or so, when building. The first 600 makes a huge difference. Again with only 20 watts TX to work with, the antenna has to be perfect.

 

[W54/XM-388]

An amp would be a good idea, if you have a set of plans he can build from & a parts list, we could probably get the parts up there.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

An amp would be a good idea, if you have a set of plans he can build from & a parts list, we could probably get the parts up there.

Plans are all over the net. Plus most younger hams these days, can't fix shit, hence why you can buy a none working one an repair it. I've seen them from 50 buck to 200 ranging from 600 to 1500 watts, that all that was needed was a few caps, an air coil,... or,... just operated properly. The first 600 I picked up at Huntsville only needed a 50 cent resistor, then I had to aline the slugs an she was GTG. The out of alinement slugs is what smoked the resistor in the first place. He did not know any better and kept running it that way until she puked.

 

[JoedirtPNW]

Dipoles and 1/2 wave verticals perform great fairly low to the ground. You get a nice large useable lobe.

I run a long doublet for a 80m its long enough for 3Mhz, I did this for more gain on 40 & 20. It also has higher ohms at the lower end of 80m so the tuner is happy. Its a inverted V with the feed point at 40' and the ends around 6' off the ground. I modeled it to be fairly omni on 80,40,20.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Alternatives.

Does the antenna need to be vertical, or can it be horizontal instead?

A light pole may not come under the same restrictions, and a wire cable strung from the house to the pole, or straight up (or down) the side of the pole might suffice. Surveillance cameras like to be on poles as well.

Wire.

Birds like it too, so be careful about what you don't want bird poop to land on when you put up the light pole.

For a stealth approach, the wire could be strung in the attic, run up the corners of the house, or wound around the the entire house just below the leaves. Some standoff and lightning arrestors could help as well.

A friend and I did a wrap antenna completely around the apartment building his parents owned in Newark NJ. We pulled in the TV stations from Philly. All we used was plain old TV antenna connector wire. Jumper the conductors right and you end up doubling the length. No need to stop wrapping when you get that first length done, either.

Tune the SWR.

Think outside (and around) the box.

Greg

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Unfortunately, we are unable to us "the pole" in any way, as it is a "street-light" owned by the city. We're not allowed to use it, connect to it, or 'anything' with it. My house also does not have an 'attic'. It is of "sandwich construction" and is of a "Post and Beam" design. We 'could' do the gutter/soffit type thing, but my first question is I am literally 8' away from the gutter. Where I am sitting at the moment. Many places in the house are considerably closer, as-in the kitchen counter, sink, cooktop, not to mention the bathtub, toilet, and spare-bed in the 'extra room'. A person standing at the sink would have their head 4' away from the gutter, or less, depending on how 'underslung' it was.

How far away should a human be, from a radiating antenna? (honest question)

If you're curious, I can PM you with my address and then you could see via 'google-maps' (streetside) view of our home and lot etc. Add to that, the 'map view' to show the 'lot size and shape' and you'll get why this is more of a conundrum than I'd anticipated.

As stated previous, I/we do have the 30 foot mast (guyed) laying in 3, 10' sections beside our deck. Simply because we are not sure where would be the best place to locate it, and the guys, and still use the land the way we 'do'.

It's a quest, and I've Faith that something will come of this, as we'd REALLY like to start receiving. Transmitting is a whole 'nuther level to this game. Which makes everything funner.

Edited to add:
With regards to that 'wire' link, would it still be called an "Inverted V" if I suspended that wire around the house, under the fascia, and followed it up to the peaks as well? We've got a 4/12 pitch roof, so not very 'tall' for peaks.

And, and, also adding that Guns here suggests that I want to get/make a 80-100 watt amplifier for boosting the signal so that I can talk to ya'll down there in the bottom portion of the US. And other places. So, taking THAT Into consideration with regards to 'how far away does a human have to be' when transmitting, not to mention the antenna design to begin with.... is that in the running?