Hard neck turning effort with Lapua 220 Russian

[Enrico Togni]

Hello to everybody. I have a unpleasant trouble in neck turning Lapua 220 Russian cases to fit in my new 6PPC .262 custom rifle neck chamber. The issue : When expanded the neck with a 243 Sinclair expander I have to force a lot my opened cases into a a Sinclair neck turner pilot in order to reduce the original 0,015" tickness to 0,009" which is the proper size ,circa .261" outside diameter with bullet fitted. Unfortunately the neck turning work is a real pain despite the Imperial wax lubricant I spread inside the case neck and the pilot.
When I investigated the matter I noted that ,not only either the expander and the pilot have exactly the same dimension, .243" but, probably due the high tickness and relative strong springback of my brasses neck the inside diameter results in a barely .237" that is 0,06" tighter than the .243 " pilot diameter resulting in a very, very pain in fitting and turning the brasses. The solutions might be to get a VERY oversized expander or a very undersized neck turning pilot according with the values exposed. I am not aware,not in Italy at least, of grossly oversized expanders neither grossly undersided pilots availability (according with my needs) actually I try to overtake those problems in expanding the 220 Russian necks with a .224" expander and then neck turning with a 224" neck turing pilot ,in order to have a lesser effort on doing the job(it partialy works) and when the desired ticknes has nearly got, passing to a .243" expander and making fine neck turning adjustment with the .243" pilot to achive the desired 0,09"thikness.
Have anybody ther encountered the same issues and how did they solved it.
While I thank you for any hint and suggestions I apologize for my "bizzarre" English but I anyway confide in your indulgence and help
Thanks so much for your attention.

 

[918v]

Get a set of 21st Century expander mandrels with increasing diameters in .0005” increments. Use one that will work with your turning mandrel.

 

[RegionRat]

I'm sure your English is better than my Italian... so no worries.

I agree with 918v. In order to work without waiting for tools, you must invest in having all the possible mandrels and bushings ahead of time.

This can be an expensive investment in tooling, but when you are into tight necks that require turning it pays to have the tools you need before you need them.

To be able to put the neck inner diameter where you need it to control the clearance over your turning mandrel, you will need the fine steps like the 21st Century expanders or a set of gage pins. With the right mandrels, you can get the running clearance to your turning pilot to avoid the friction and heat that leads to galling and all the effort you mentioned.

https://21stcenturyinnovation.com/b...s/caliber-specific-expander-mandrel/v/E24-Kit

Buona Fortuna!

 

[Enrico Togni]

Thanks for your reply but I am afraid I need to seek for a oversized mandrel sized to 243" plus 0,07", e.g 252" to accomplish the mission... Perhaps a 25 cal expander might do the job followed by a neck bushing of proper measure to reduce a little bit the diameter, if necessary, in order to achive the proper neck turner pilot fit. Otherwise I should have to see a machinist and asking him to reduce my pilot diameter accordingly.
Anyway thanks againg for your patience and else.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Thanks for your reply but I am afraid I need to seek for a oversizede mandrel sized to 243" plus 0,07", e.g 252" to accomplish the mission... Perhaps a 25 cal expander might do the job followed by a neck bushing of proper measure to reduce a little bit the diameter in order to achive the proper nech turner the pilot fit. Otherwise I should have to see a machinist and asking him to reduce my pilot diameter accordingly.
Anyway thanks againg for your patience and else.

I agree with both posters above. I would suggest contacting 21st Century, explaining your problem and ask them for suggestions. I would also suggest NOT using and undersized mandrel on your neck turner, use a standard size.

The vast majority of my turning tools are 21st Century, they are excellent.

 

[RegionRat]

Thanks for your reply but I am afraid I need to seek for a oversizede mandrel sized to 243" plus 0,07", e.g 252" to accomplish the mission... Perhaps a 25 cal expander might do the job followed by a neck bushing of proper measure to reduce a little bit the diameter in order to achive the proper nech turner the pilot fit. Otherwise I should have to see a machinist and asking him to reduce my pilot diameter accordingly.
Anyway thanks againg for your patience and else.

https://bulletin.accurateshooter.co...ion-with-gage-pin-die-from-porters-precision/

With a slight bevel chamfer cut on a gage pin and a die body with the right collet, you can get any size pin you want and use it as a mandrel.

 

[918v]

Thanks for your reply but I am afraid I need to seek for a oversized mandrel sized to 243" plus 0,07", e.g 252" to accomplish the mission... Perhaps a 25 cal expander might do the job followed by a neck bushing of proper measure to reduce a little bit the diameter, if necessary, in order to achive the proper neck turner pilot fit. Otherwise I should have to see a machinist and asking him to reduce my pilot diameter accordingly.
Anyway thanks againg for your patience and else.

You don’t need a .252” mandrel.

You need to learn how to measure the inside diameter correctly.

 

[Enrico Togni]

Thanks again to all you for the replies. It appears that the best solutions are the gauge pins as per yours suggestions. I justcsent a request to 21st Century exaining my needs. Hope they ship to Italy. Thanks again.

 

[918v]

When you’re expanding from 22 to 6mm there is going to be a lot of spring back. Therefore if your expander is .243” the brass will spring back below .243”. A .244” or .245” expander will be better.

There is a 22 to 6mm expander made by PMA tool that takes this spring back into account. That might be another option.

 

[Enrico Togni]

When you’re expanding from 22 to 6mm there is going to be a lot of spring back. Therefore if your expander is .243” the brass will spring back below .243”. A .244” or .245” expander will be better.

There is a 22 to 6mm expander made by PMA tool that takes this spring back into account. That might be another option.

Thank you. Do you have a link where I can see and purchase this oversized expander? It is exatly the tool I am looking for!

 

[918v]

Thank you. Do you have a link where I can see and purchase this oversized expander? It is exatly the tool I am looking for!

24cal. (6mm) FROM 22cal Carbide Neck Up Mandrel

The highest quality, most innovative reloading tools and shooting supplies for precision riflemen. Unparalleled customer service. Shop Now - PMA Tool

www.pmatool.com

 

[918v]

I would still get the various size expander mandrel set. You’ll appreciate it when playing with bullet seating effort. A half thousandth (.0005”) makes a big difference.

 

[Enrico Togni]

When you’re expanding from 22 to 6mm there is going to be a lot of spring back. Therefore if your expander is .243” the brass will spring back below .243”. A .244” or .245” expander will be better.

There is a 22 to 6mm expander made by PMA tool that takes this spring back into account. That might be another option.

Thanks. As previously said I wanted to order these 244" and 245" expanders but shipping costs to Italy is $50,00, out of $25.00 value of the goods. So or I find a local machinist doing it for me or I need a goodhearted US friend where to deliver them from 21st and then have them shipped in Italy via a cheaper US mail small parcel. Of course I would cover in advance any expense...