Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

banshee sws

banshee sws

Tennessee Pusher
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Minuteman
Sep 9, 2002
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Colorado
www.thepracticalrifleman.com
#1
i posted a thread of my new Harold Fredd rifle

thought , yeah i would like to see others

post your pics of Barreld by Harold rifles

here is mine again

SW-2 harold fredd rifle.JPG
 
#2
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

Harold is good to go. I had a .308 barreled by harold, good experience and the gun shoots.in fact it prints groups like a bench gun. i called Harold. I say whats going on here harold?? why does my rifle shoot so friggin good? Did you blueprint it?? sprinkle it with magic accuracy dust?? this is the best part he laughs and tells me exactly what makes it shoot like that. go ahead give him a call he will tell you himself.
 
#5
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

I was less than impressed with mine that Harold built as far as fit and finish. I have no doubt mine will shoot, but after receiving it, I had to get another gunsmith to finish it.

I asked for a Vais, this is what I got. It isn't even flush with the barrel. Barrel is .920, Brake is 1"
DSC00035.jpg


I bought a KMW and sent it to him, this is what it looks like:
DSC00034.jpg

also the recoil lug is being grinded down to fit the seekins base that I told him I would be using. It was so high the base wouldn't line up with the holes.

Haven't got to shoot it yet because of all the other work that is being done, I am sure when I get it, it will be a shooter.
 
#7
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

Let's make sure that everyone knows, that is not my bolt knob, it was provided and all I did was thread it on, and secondly the brake was installed AFTER I contacted you about the change and I could have cut it down and gladly would have, however we had a conversation regarding that as well. My work is unconditionally guarenteed, so send it back and it would have been to you your liking. Astectics don't have anything to do with functionality and this brake works and is more conducive to other ventures, say you want a can installed. It's already threaded for it. Also, the seekins lug is for the seekins base that is why it was installed. So if your base doesn't fit then you have then wrong base.
 
#8
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

My base says SEEKINS on the bottom, bought straight from Glen, not a distributor. So I am sure I have the right base.

I was told the brake was the same as the Badger Thruster. Which would be fine, because the Thruster has the same contour as the barrel and has no neck on it.

After i had the rifle in hand, YOU, told me on the phone you couldn't make the brake the same diameter of the barrel, because "if it is cut down it will come apart." You did tell me i could send the barreled action back and you would put a neck on it to make it the same as the barrel, But I don't have another week to ship it to you, a week for you to fix, and another week for it to get back.

Yes i want a can installed, but the wait time for my can to be ORDERED is over 3 months, Then starts the BATF wait, so I have to shoot the brake the whole summer like that?? No

And yes, that is a KMW bolt knob that I ordered from Surgeon, if you couldn't make it look right, you shouldn't have messed with it. Now i have pay a gunsmith here in Oklahoma $100 to rethread and fix the bolt knob, $125 to turn the brake and give it a shoulder so it looks ok. And another $50 to make the recoil lug fit the base.

Now I have no doubt this gun will shoot the nuts off a fly at 300yards, but I don't know that for sure because another gunsmith is fixing things that should have been done in your shop.

Now i wasn't slinging sh*t in my thread above, I just posted the pictures that YOU took and emailed to me of how the rifle looked leaving your shop. So you should have no problem with me showing how a rifle looks when going out the door.
 
#9
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

I have no problem with the pics, I have no problem with my work. I have a problem with you voicing your opinion of my work that we talked about prior to completion and now you want to put a stick in my eye. First time custom buyers have no idea what they want until they can pick a fight. Bottom line here is you have no patience to make it what you really want. Explain to me how the other guy is going to rethread the bolt handel and make it like you want and at the same time make the brake work for both the can and the brake. If you look at dimensions, I believe the thruster is 1" in diameter and like the brake I installed is the same. If you cut them down they get too thin and will fail under muzzel blast. I still thank you for your business and understand that I have no ill feelings about my work. In addition the recoil lug I installed is a seekins lug that is for his base that has a cutout for the lug so I guess we had a big mis-communication over that.................. Hope I can build you another one. And I never sent you the remainder of the bill.... did you mention that? We are clear.............
 
#10
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

So because this is my first build I don't know what I want??? If I were a gunsmith building something for a first time customer I would make damn sure he will be my customer from then on, I would make sure the gun was EXACTLY what he wanted and the fit and finish were perfect!!!

Here is my email to you (of which I have the entire back and forth emails from start to finish saved on my hard drive.)

<span style="font-weight: bold">Harold,
I have decided to stay with a 7mm Rem Mag (i am not all that experienced as a reloader and don't want to mess up starting with a wildcat.)
I want the 700 action blueprinted/trued
I want a Rock #7 v-fluted 26" barrel with twist that will stabilize a 168gr Berger VLD
I want a Vais muzzle break installed
I want a Jewell trigger tuned to 1 or 1 1/2lbs
I want the whole set up covered in Gunkote (or Cerekote or whatever process you contract out) in flat black
(before the set up is ready for the coating I will buy and mail you a 20 MOA picatinny scope rail)

Once all this is done give me a hollar and hopefully I will have made my decision on whether i am gonna go with a McMillan or an AICS.</span>

Kinda sounds like by the time you had my action, I knew exactly what I wanted.
 
#11
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

I don't think there is much excuse to be made for letting a rifle go looking like that.

There's a old saying in the shop I used to work at, "There's right and there's wrong, no in-between".

I personally wouldn't let a rifle out looking like that, even if it was a world class shooter, I would fear that the aesthetics would undermine my reputation for attention to detail, which in the end, this precision thing is all about...
 
#12
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

Harold,
You spent a small investment in tooling (new Romi lathe). Why would you not invest in the time to get something out of the shop that looked appealing while performing. No matter how you slice it, that's a shitty 'smithing job and I think this customer has every right to be pissed after spending good money.

JCH,
Don't know why you didn't go to Surgeon Rifles to begin with when you're in OK and you're using parts from them. Haste makes waste.
 
#14
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: inode</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JCH,
Don't know why you didn't go to Surgeon Rifles to begin with when you're in OK and you're using parts from them. Haste makes waste.</div></div>

I will...price was an issue.
 
#15
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

Harold,
Taper the rear of the brake down to match the barrel.

Looks to be an Edge brake. Much prefer it to the Vais.

Afetrmarket bolt knobs look like shit on any gun, go figure.
 
#17
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

Aftermarket knobs look good if properly installed. That knob should have been cut a little higher and the knob should flow the same degree as the bolt swept.

Now I dont know if I used the proper gunsmithing terms but I did my best.

The brake looks good to me. But you should get what you want. I would have gone a different route with the recoil lug just bought a oversize one that wasnt bigger than the reciever and barrel and been done with it. Why was the VAIS brake not used? Or why was it changed?

 
#21
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

Harold built what he said he would build on my gun....but then there is donovan's....He hasn't even been drug in to this thread....and I'm pretty sure he doesn't want too....
 
#23
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SuperSeal110</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Grin </div></div>

You referring to "donovan's" rifle....????
 
#25
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SuperSeal110</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I thought JCH's was bad... </div></div>

Yes Sir my friend, I thought so too..
 
#27
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

Ok this is the deal to be up front i was NOT charged a dime.I sent harold two new mt.guide rilfes to build me two 243 ai's, inlet stocks for bdl and open barrel channel a little. What i got back was two fucked up beyond repair brand fucking new TI stocks. Yes i got a free rock barrel and the smith work on one barreled action,but now im waiting on a stock ,i found one, and i had to resend the other rifle to another smith to get finished . The rifle shots just the finish works well you look at the pics. This is the way they showed up , NO hey i ruined your shit and im sorry , or anything ,just showed up this way.

barrel channel opened up with a wire wheel on a grinder the best i can tell.

haroldswork085.jpg


bottom metal inlet way to deep...

haroldswork090.jpg

haroldswork088.jpg


nice and inline also.....

haroldswork094.jpg


haroldsstockwork015.jpg


and bottom metal full of bedding, guess he was tring to fix the inlet........

haroldsstockwork013.jpg


well you get the picture......grinn........
 
#30
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

You only have to get burned by a bad smith once to appreciate the good ones...

I still don't understand how turning the brake down would make it come apart during muzzle blast?

I had this brake turned down by a buddy in school right now to be a smith.
DSC02481.jpg


it's worked like a champ so far...
DSC_0271.jpg

 
#31
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GunBuilder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Astectics don't have anything to do with functionality </div></div>

it does if thats not what you want.........
 
#32
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GunBuilder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> And I never sent you the remainder of the bill.... did you mention that? ............. </div></div>

i see a pattern here .
 
#34
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

Yeah I didnt understand when he said he couldnt turn the brake down? If he couldnt do it with the certin brand he installed on your gun then he should have picked a brand that could.

The channel on that stock is horrible looking.
 
#37
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GunBuilder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Explain to me how the other guy is going to rethread the bolt handel and make it like you want </div></div>

Gunbuilder,

Notice the difference in how these bolt knobs are put on. They're the same bolt knob, but mine was put on by KMW. I think this angle and length is what he's looking for.

260-2.jpg


260003.jpg


DSC00034.jpg

 
#38
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red_SC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that angle is what he's looking for.</div></div>

And blending .... the KMW install is seamless.
 
#39
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

man i superseal said donovan's stuff was bad but i could not believe until now...

Maybe rock creek should not us him as "there gun smith" ( those words are out of harold's mouth)

p.s. i love rock creek barrels
 
#40
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

okay

Harold can defend himself

so this is not me running to Harold's rescue

having said that -

i have had work done by 'other' gunsmiths , mentioned in this thread and sometimes people make mistakes ( and send it out to the customer , its called manufacturing , quality control , etc., )

in a one man shop, the same guy is responsible for ALL that stuff

so lets not think that 'other' smiths have never made mistakes , or caught EVERY single quality, finish, function, aesthetics , etc., issues before the customer got the rifle

cause they have, and i have been on the receiving end of four separate incidents where that has happened to me

WHAT I LOOK FOR IS THE BUILDER TO SAY ' whatever it takes i will make it right, ' and do so in a timely manner . . .

that is what customer service is all about -

if man touches it , it will break or can be messed up

LEUPOLD, NIGHTFORCE, US OPTICS , etc., all have customer service dept's , cause stuff happens

regarding Rock Creek / Mike Rock using Harold Fredd , or not using Harold Fredd .. . that is Mike's call and Mike personally speaks highly of Harold

during a phone interview , there were several people that Mike did not speak highly of, and they frequent this board

so what ?

lets be mindful of what we say, and how we say it

if Harold was sitting on his hands and not responsive, refusing to fix an problem, unreachable, etc., thats one thing

i believe in giving the benefit of the doubt , and try my best to put myself in the other guys shoes, HOW WOULD I WANT TO BE TREATED ?

would i want someone to go on a mega forum / internet , and air dirty laundry about a personal transaction ?

would i want to get into a pissing contest , publicly with a respected member

would i want others jumping on the bandwagon and going ballistic regarding this same issue ?

NO , i would not

whats the goal here ? what's to be accomplished by all this ?

embarassment ? loss of business ? one upmanship ?

we should be extra cautious , with mass media / internet / etc., as powerful as it is , to not RUIN a person or their reputation via a forum ; just because we can or may have something to say / add / or a story to tell

we are blessed to have numerous industry leaders here -

lets keep our senses and not abuse people publicly; what optic, rifle company, gunsmith , etc., owner/manager would want to come here or stay here and participate after seeing another person get bashed ?

okay , i am done

George

 
#42
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

you are right i wouldn't be passive at all to the builder but

on a public forum ? whats to gain ?

i have stories i could tell to . . .

regarding various personal experiences

but whats to gain ?

again , i don't have a rat in this race

just saying is all
 
#43
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have had work done by 'other' gunsmiths , mentioned in this thread and sometimes people make mistakes ( and send it out to the customer , its called manufacturing , quality control , etc., ) </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Patriot Arms, GAP, KMW, R&D Precision, Robert Gradous, Surgeon Rifles = CASE CLOSED!!!!</div></div>

I hope your not talking about these smiths. Jered told me the longest part it takes in building a rifle is inspection and range time. If I recall it has to pass a 3 page inspection twice and also pass at the range before it hit your hands. Now thats quality. I knew Jered was the smith for me beause he is VERY picky on what leaves his shop with his name on it. Now for the others I cant say, never seen one in person, but ive never seen pics from GAP, KMW, Surgeon, or R&D precison that look like the ones above. (Im not familiar with Robert Gradous. I like the policys and guarntee of Harold Freds rifles. If his business is picking up he needs to expand and hire some help. It looks though his rifles are very accurate.


 
#45
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

I don't know the builder but work like this should be brought to the attention of others, fixed or not.

That's the whole point of things like the internet, to keep other customers from having similar experiences. Bad companies hate it because no longer can they keep their bad work limited to the customer it was done for and the few guys he can tell by word of mouth.

While I agree that mistakes happen with every builder, and it's important on how they fix it and make it right. More importantly is if a pattern that happens repeatedly customers can avoid them.

You do get the rare case of a bad customer just trying to wreck a business by complaining online, however over years of being on different forums that's by far the exception. In more cases than not they have a valid complaint.
 
#47
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

Banshee,

What you say is pertinent. I'm sure no-one will argue that point. Customers and builders alike.

How you say it is poignant. I gotta say, that is some classy 'verbology' there.
smile.gif


The point of my post, is to say that there are and can be more, differences of opinion. Facts remain, and are based on circumstances. It is our opinion that we are forming, and basing them on the facts as we know them.

Good form.
 
#48
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

I don't believe he has ever offered to fix anything of Donovans! And yes he offered to fix mine after i had mine in hand, but after seeing Donovan's rifle I just wanted to get mine back without it looking like his. He said send it back, but i don't have time to wait for it, again.

Yes i have heard his rifles shoot, and I have told Harold in a personal email that when I get the rifle back from the local smith, I will give a range report and if the rifle shoots like i hope, I will tell all that Harold accurized and chambered a great shooting rifle.

However if I had just simply posted pics and not told the smith that did it (and Donovan did the same) people would be on here demanding we tell who it was so that they were aware of the aesthetics of the rifles.
 
#49
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

Here are just a couple that Harold has done for me and I have nothing bad to say about any of them.


22-250 Improved
IMG_0382.jpg

338 Lapua Improved
IMG_0568.jpg

308
IMG00065.jpg

243 Improved
IMG_0026.jpg
 
#50
Re: Harold Fredd rifles lets see 'em

Now nobody is trying to ruin Harold or anything like that. Banshee you posted pics and said let's see them, so you got what you wanted. In my original post I didn't slander anyone, Just stated fact along with pics that were sent to me by Harold.
 
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