Advanced Marksmanship Harris Bipod and Recoil

[rickp]

I came across this comment and I was wondering how accurate this is. I have a AW and wondering if using the AI bipod would help with the recoil and bipod jump.

R.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sig685</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Legs of the bipod are NOT directly below the fore end. That makes a HUGE difference in taming bipod hop.

The regular Harris bipod is the one that suffers from bipod hop because the fore end of the rifle is set on top of the two legs and the recoil impulse is uneven. </div></div>

 

[jasonk]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

If considering the AI bipod, I'd also recommend you look into the Atlas with the AI spigot. I've never shot with an AI bipod so I can't comment there, but the Atlas I'm very happy with.

 

[rickp]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If considering the AI bipod, I'd also recommend you look into the Atlas with the AI spigot. I've never shot with an AI bipod so I can't comment there, but the Atlas I'm very happy with. </div></div>

Hey Jasonk,
Ok but, how does it affect bipod jump?

R.

 

[DaveV]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

In watching Jacob shoot on the online videos, the big difference is that he can load the bipod without the legs creeping forward. I fight this all the time with my Harris. Too light...hop. Too heavy...creep. It's weird to have to hunt for the "sweet spot" in loading pressure, but it is my reality.

 

[mjh30]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

I noticed a significant improvement when using my Harris bipod when I changed the standard feet over to pod claws. Off the bench, and in the prone, but I also use my sling when using the bipod if possible.

 

[Graham]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

My Harris doesn't jump.
My AICS spigot mount wiggles.
Claws are not necessary and limit the versatility of a bi-pod.

 

[Notime]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

Consistency and repeatability is the key to most precision rifle shooting “skills”.

I find that loading the bipod with a few pounds of shoulder weight works with all bipod types and feet. Changing the pivot point, bipod design and/or types of “feet” may not jump as much, but poor technique produces poor results.

F Class bipods with skis, 6BR prone rifles and other specialty guns may produce better results with little/no shooter contact. Setting the rifle into your shoulder, grip pulling straight to the rear and then loading the bipod tends to work with all practical/working rifles.

Mike

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

Two kinds of hop; torque, and recoil.

Torque suggests a bipod with a freely moving tilt/pivot capability.

Recoil suggests a relatively uninterrupted straight line rearward travel during the initial stages of recoil, while the bullet is still transiting the barrel. Generally, pushing forward slighty just before the shot anticipates that travel and eliminates any serious rearward obstruction.

Other influences affect accuracy and target reacquisition. These issues relate directly to proper establishement of the Supported Prone Position, and understanding the concepts of Natural Point of Aim, Trigger Control, and Followthrough.

This subect is very well handled, along with a lot of other crucial issues, in the Private S-3 Training Forum.

Greg

 

[Sig685]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

I thought I would weigh in on this thread since those are my words that appear in the OP.

My quoted statements were in response to a thread discussing a video of a shooter doing a great job firing a rifle of a bipod. The rifle was not moving, hoping or torquing. What I was pointing out was the the rifle did not have its fore-end on top of the legs, but rather the bipod was attached to the rifle using a cantilevered method with a single point of attachment at the middle line.

I have long maintained that this method of attaching a bipod (VersaPod uses this method also,) was superior to the Harris method where the rifle directly on top of two legs on either side of the middle line. If the ground is hard or you are shooting off a bench, the effect is magnified.

The video was doing a great job of confirming my comments.

 

[mjh30]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

I wanted to correct my posting, I use the oversized rubber(mount)footing on my Harris bipod, not the pod claws, although I do have the complete set. I think they are a huge improvement over the standard Harris feet and the adjustment allows them to be angled. I can easily load the bipod over the older feet and they are quite versatile.

 

[rickp]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Notime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Consistency and repeatability is the key to most precision rifle shooting “skills”.

I find that loading the bipod with a few pounds of shoulder weight works with all bipod types and feet. Changing the pivot point, bipod design and/or types of “feet” may not jump as much, but poor technique produces poor results.

F Class bipods with skis, 6BR prone rifles and other specialty guns may produce better results with little/no shooter contact. Setting the rifle into your shoulder, grip pulling straight to the rear and then loading the bipod tends to work with all practical/working rifles.

Mike </div></div>


Hey guys,
I agree 100%,consistancy and proper repeatability is key, followed by good technique.

I wasn;t looking for technique discussions, just a confirmation that bipod placement could affect bipod jump. I've never heard anything to that effect.

All you guys are sharing some good info but I noticed nothing confirming the original statement except for the original author of if.

So I think I'll keep it in the back of my mind and try to test it out on my own if I have the opportunity to swap bipod.

Thanks guys I appreciate the feedback.

R.

 

[rickp]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Harris doesn't jump.
My AICS spigot mount wiggles.
Claws are not necessary and limit the versatility of a bi-pod.
</div></div>

Hey Graham,
I dont like the claws either. They work well in dirt or similar ground but if going to more of an urban enviroment I can see having issues.

Let me ask you, you have the AI bipod that attaches at the end of the handguard? How do you like it over the Harris?

R.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

Resurrecting this thread - anybody got AI bipod and can share his experience with it? And maybe compare it to Harris? Assuming AICS stock, and bipods mounted at their standard points?

Tnx!

 

[beenjammin]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

For me the AI bipod placed the rifle too high for my liking on a bench and I just did not like how it rotates on the pivot freely ( the price is a bit high also0

For me, the Atlas is the best bipod out there for my AW after trying all three mentioned.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

Thank you! Did you get the BT10-NC (No Clamp) Atlas model and AAIS spigot mount?

 

[DT1]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

I got the Atlas with spigot mount for my AI awhile back. I couldn't the wobble out of it where the spigot inserts into the stock, it has just enough play to make it annoying. Do they make some sort of shim to address this?

 

[Kasey]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

DT1, this tolerance or play is fairly common on such mounting systems. The rocking (3-9) can be limited with a bit of silicone on the inside corner of our spigot block, let it cure then plug it in. The front to back play will also be tightened. Not ideal but serviceable. We will soon release a new spigot that compensate for these tolerance variables.

We have seen several customer improvements come in during the V7 to V8 conversions, several have drilled and tapped the block so as to add machine screws that will then contact the "shelf" of the chassis block.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

If you are actually shooting your rifle off something other than a bench, you will not even notice any play in the Atlas. If you want a bench rest--buy one. If you use your Tactical rifle as a Tactical rifle, the play is inconsequential.

 

[DT1]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are actually shooting your rifle off something other than a bench, you will not even notice any play in the Atlas. If you want a bench rest--buy one. If you use your Tactical rifle as a Tactical rifle, the play is inconsequential. </div></div>

I've shot it exclusively from the prone and other positions and the wobble is frustrating friend! I never shoot it off the bench.

Kasey, thanks for the comments and updates.

 

[Kasey]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

DT1, you are welcome. Did you try the silicone? We just got one in here that had that treatment, whatever he used was tough, fairly dense material and it was obvious the bipod was U S E D (As a side note, I dig seeing them come back, used and dirty scuffed up and still delivering the mail).

 

[Cheese]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickp</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Harris doesn't jump.
My AICS spigot mount wiggles.
Claws are not necessary and limit the versatility of a bi-pod.
</div></div>

Hey Graham,
I dont like the claws either. They work well in dirt or similar ground but if going to more of an urban enviroment I can see having issues.

Let me ask you, you have the AI bipod that attaches at the end of the handguard? How do you like it over the Harris?

R. </div></div>


To each is own gents.
I will say however that if the rubber MOUT footings are used the versatility of the bipod isn't limited by any means.
If used as designed the Claw footings will give you grip in loose soil.
The rubber "flat" MOUT footings will work as designed on man made surfaces and perform very well in loose soil.
Two different terrains, one bipod. Not limited at all.

Had to say it.....soldier on.

 

[ainnamor]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

Kasey, any idea when you will roll out the new spigot?

 

[Kasey]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

The338LM, the prototype is being made now.

 

[Quickoz]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

I find my harris is just inconsistant and also doesnt work well compared to using a pack. I may get an atlas though, Ive used one and love them, but the pack is more versitile for me. I find using the 20" barrel on my rifle, the jump is a tad more and can be fustrating.

I have a 6-9" Leg Notch Non-Swivel Harris.

Just my 0.02c guys.

 

[ckirkc]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

Tame the HOP!
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Xr4uvCJLmFU"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Xr4uvCJLmFU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

10x14 @750

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

All,

The bipod, any flavor, is an awesome rest, but a much less than idea support since it requires some muscular tension in the position in order to maintain consistent control of the rifle until recoil has subsided. This is a problem as muscular tension defeats consisteny. Artifical supports such as the sling allow the shooter to relax fully into the position to get more consistent control over the rifle than possible with the bipod.

 

[tuckner]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

Sterling, I believe it was you who had expounded on the benefits of utilizing the sling as a type of left arm hammock while prone. I tried it and that helps a lot, and takes some of the problems I have been having loading the bipod away and controls hop.

Sorry if it wasn't you, as I can't recall 100%. But LL says to never use a sling, as it is more of a range technique than a practical one, and I am interested in developing my shooting skill in a more practical sense.

Can anyone clarify why NOT to use the sling in the prone during practical use? The only reason I can see is that it isn't as easy or quick to get into position, and you can't replicate the form from less conventional positions. For practical use is it wrong to sling prone and not on other more awkward positions (for a training philosophy, will bad habits develop etc)?

 

[j-huskey]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

A hasty sling is recommended by many in the real world, for the added support when possible.

Slung prone, match style, is not recommended because it is hard to properly get into under stress, unlike a match where you have a prep period to do so and X minutes to fire the course, then get out of the sling.
Adjusting a sling from a carry strap length to a usable length as a rifle support is difficult and time consuming. Quick slide slings that are easy to adjust are also easy to come unadjusted under stress.
Properly adjusted for rifle support length 99 times out of 100 leaves the sling useless for anything else, it must be let out to a longer length to be used as a carry strap.

Besides being hard to get into under stress, once in the position, for a long period of time, the sling will cut off the blood circulation to the support arm, not a good thing.

Then you have to get out of the sling after using it.

Training with the sling "slick" or without full gear on is one thing. It is easy to train in a long sleeve tee shirt or BDU shirt (or properly designed competition shooting jacket), and there is nothing to get in the way of the sling going on and off.

Training in full gear is another thing where all manner of things can catch the sling and stop you from proper application of the rifle.
Failure to properly present the rifle in a match is lost points, failure to properly present the rifle on a hunt may be a lost trophy and a lost large license fee on the last day of the hunt, failure to present the rifle properly in the real world can put you in the hurt locker or dead.

Too many incidents, you just don't have the time to get into a slung position, you only have time to present the rifle to the target, aim, and fire.

You will revert to your lowest level of training under stress. How much time are you willing to put into: get into position, go slung, shoot one round, get out of position, then repeat: get into position, go slung, shoot one round, get out of position, then repeat:.....

For practical use, the hasty sling is often the only outside support you have on the other more awkward positions you allude to above.

The hasty sling is the application of a working carry strap to support the rifle in a manner similar but not as in depth as proper sling use for rifle support.

Contrary to what some people may say, the sling does have a place in the real world, but it must be practiced and the practice should mirror real world incidents that have been debriefed and which have shown the need for a sling and the value of it.

 

[tuckner]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

Good post, thanks for the reply. I think that answers my question, and I was referring to a hasty type sling use, just slip your arm through and around, it seems pretty quick and easy but yes, long term circulation would be an issue. Haven't tried it with a bunch of gear but then again, I'm not overseas and don't have a need for a ton of gear.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

I cannot say it any better than jhuskey. The loop or hasty sling advantage to good shooting while factual may nevertheless not be practical. The hasty sling, with and without bipod is practiced by the SDM in training but without empahsis.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All,

<span style="font-weight: bold">The bipod, any flavor, is an awesome rest, but a much less than idea support since it requires some muscular tension in the position in order to maintain consistent control of the rifle until recoil has subsided.</span> This is a problem as muscular tension defeats consisteny. Artifical supports such as the sling allow the shooter to relax fully into the position to get more consistent control over the rifle than possible with the bipod.</div></div>

This is not true, it does not require muscular tension, it requires your center of gravity to forward... muscular tensions is not an element of shooting with a bipod, unless you are doing so from a less than desirable alternate position, then you increase your support as necessary.

Loading a bipod is not about using your muscles it's about being a slab of meat straight behind the rifle, with your core weight being moved forward without any tension on it.

This a fallacy of bipod shooting... that muscling it works.

For something like the Atlas, or Versa, or Parker Hale, all that is required is to take the slack out of the bipod to allow the recoil on that slack, which is very, very little movement and requires no tension. The amount of muscular support necessary to hold the rifle into the shoulder pocket is more than is required to load a bipod properly.

Don't let the sling crowd fool you, they haven't explored how to shoot off a bipod since they started being more popular, and those in the F Class game use more Free recoil, what is being used now in the Tactical world is not your grand-dad's bipod shooting. We're grown a bit since 1992 on how you employ the system.

 

[j-huskey]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> We're grown a bit since 1992.</div></div>

Someone did comment in some of the last videos that Frank was gaining some weight. And wearing some strange looking glasses.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jhuskey</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> We're grown a bit since 1992.</div></div>

Someone did comment in some of the last videos that Frank was gaining some weight. And wearing some strange looking glasses.</div></div>

Damn, back on my diet...

it was water weight, I swear, I was just bloating that day, leave me alone damn it !

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All,

<span style="font-weight: bold">The bipod, any flavor, is an awesome rest, but a much less than idea support since it requires some muscular tension in the position in order to maintain consistent control of the rifle until recoil has subsided.</span> This is a problem as muscular tension defeats consisteny. Artifical supports such as the sling allow the shooter to relax fully into the position to get more consistent control over the rifle than possible with the bipod.</div></div>

This is not true, it does not require muscular tension, it requires your center of gravity to forward... muscular tensions is not an element of shooting with a bipod, unless you are doing so from a less than desirable alternate position, then you increase your support as necessary.

Loading a bipod is not about using your muscles it's about being a slab of meat straight behind the rifle, with your core weight being moved forward without any tension on it.

This a fallacy of bipod shooting... that muscling it works.

For something like the Atlas, or Versa, or Parker Hale, all that is required is to take the slack out of the bipod to allow the recoil on that slack, which is very, very little movement and requires no tension. The amount of muscular support necessary to hold the rifle into the shoulder pocket is more than is required to load a bipod properly.

Don't let the sling crowd fool you, they haven't explored how to shoot off a bipod since they started being more popular, and those in the F Class game use more Free recoil, what is being used now in the Tactical world is not your grand-dad's bipod shooting. We're grown a bit since 1992 on how you employ the system. </div></div>

You may not identify it as muscular tension, but when muscular relaxation is absent, that's exactly what it is.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All,

<span style="font-weight: bold">The bipod, any flavor, is an awesome rest, but a much less than idea support since it requires some muscular tension in the position in order to maintain consistent control of the rifle until recoil has subsided.</span> This is a problem as muscular tension defeats consisteny. Artifical supports such as the sling allow the shooter to relax fully into the position to get more consistent control over the rifle than possible with the bipod.</div></div>

This is not true, it does not require muscular tension, it requires your center of gravity to forward... muscular tensions is not an element of shooting with a bipod, unless you are doing so from a less than desirable alternate position, then you increase your support as necessary.

Loading a bipod is not about using your muscles it's about being a slab of meat straight behind the rifle, with your core weight being moved forward without any tension on it.

This a fallacy of bipod shooting... that muscling it works.

For something like the Atlas, or Versa, or Parker Hale, all that is required is to take the slack out of the bipod to allow the recoil on that slack, which is very, very little movement and requires no tension. The amount of muscular support necessary to hold the rifle into the shoulder pocket is more than is required to load a bipod properly.

Don't let the sling crowd fool you, they haven't explored how to shoot off a bipod since they started being more popular, and those in the F Class game use more Free recoil, what is being used now in the Tactical world is not your grand-dad's bipod shooting. We're grown a bit since 1992 on how you employ the system. </div></div>

You may not identify it as muscular tension, but when muscular relaxation is absent, that's exactly what it is.</div></div>

I know how relaxed I am -- you can see it in the movement of the rifle which goes straight back... I think do this every day and would know if I was using muscular tension.

I shot this this week, you can see the rifle recoil and move and I am not using any tension

<object id="objVeeplePlayer" classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=9,0,0,0" width="640" height="396" align="middle"><param name="width" value="640"/><param name="height" value="396"/><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"/><param name="movie" value="http://www.veeple.com/swf/VeeplePlayer.swf?siteId=5GLGxNj8HEg%253D&videoId=eff19600-ceee-411d-b41f-ab308daa71c8&userId=&baseUrl=http://www.veeple.com/&showSpots=1&showViewBar=1&showTabBar=1&mute=0&spotScaleMode=maintainAspectRatio&autoPlay=0&allowAddComments=1&allowShare=1&allowEmbedding=1&allowFullscreen=1&allowRating=1&stopPlayingOnInteractiveClick=1&displayRelatedVideos=0&showWorm=0&showLogo=0&logoIcon=1&whiteLabel=1&showTabClickableObjects=1&showTabDetails=1&showTabComments=1&playerMode=player&playerWidth=640&playerHeight=396&isFlex=0&recordEvents=1&deploymentUrl=http://www.snipershide.com"/><param name="quality" value="high"/><param name="bgcolor" value="#ffffff"/><param name="menu" value="false"/><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"/><embed id="embVeeplePlayer" src="http://www.veeple.com/swf/VeeplePlayer.swf?siteId=5GLGxNj8HEg%253D&videoId=eff19600-ceee-411d-b41f-ab308daa71c8&userId=&baseUrl=http://www.veeple.com/&showSpots=1&showViewBar=1&showTabBar=1&mute=0&spotScaleMode=maintainAspectRatio&autoPlay=0&allowAddComments=1&allowShare=1&allowEmbedding=1&allowFullscreen=1&allowRating=1&stopPlayingOnInteractiveClick=1&displayRelatedVideos=0&showWorm=0&showLogo=0&logoIcon=1&whiteLabel=1&showTabClickableObjects=1&showTabDetails=1&showTabComments=1&playerMode=player&playerWidth=640&playerHeight=396&isFlex=0&recordEvents=1&deploymentUrl=http://www.snipershide.com" quality="high" bgcolor="#ffffff" width="640" height="396" align="middle" allowScriptAccess="always" menu="false" allowFullScreen="true" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer"><noembed><h1>Zeroing a Nightforce Hi Rev </h1>

Nightforce, Bighorm Arms, Sniper, </p>Veeple Interactive Video</noembed></embed></object>

I think we just do things differently because we are talking about two different disciplines.

Watch the recoil, if I was tense it would show, as well I shoot a lot of rounds of larger calibers and never bruise, tension would appear in bruising with a high volume of rounds down range.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

Yes, I agree we do things differently, yet, whether you know it or not you do have muscular tension, it's present even when you are striving for relaxation; and, with the bipod, to maintain control, you're applying it. Tension can be like breathing, it's there but you are not likely thinking about it. Also, I have no doubt you have a technique which mimimizes the consequences of muscular tension, and, for what you do, and from what you say, it gets the job done. The bottom line is you need to work to make the bipod work for you, and this sort of work requires some muscle. To prove my point, if muscular tension was not a problem, or not present, you would have little need to consider or adjust for NPA; but, I'm sure you do adjust for NPA, allowing the rifle to point where tne muscles are most relaxed. Why, because your muscles will always go into a greater relaxed state after trigger pull notifies your brain that the job is done. If you had not made the NPA adjustment, the barrel would be pointed in a different direction from where aimed before the bullet ever cleared the barrel.Remember too, if muscles were altogeter not being used, you would likely not be able to aim much less pull the trigger.Muscle tension is there, even for you, you've just become accustomed to it.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

There is much less use of muscular control with a bipod than with a sling. So the idea that bipods are less ideal because of the need for muscular tension is what you said.

Yes you do set up your NPA, but part of that is required to line up the rifle and your body behind it. Not because you are necessarily muscling it into position, it does Require muscles to hold it into your shoulder pocket with your bicep, but that is necessary in any position.

Simple test, set up on your target in the position you feel uses the least amount of muscular tension, and hold it for an hour. The bipod makes this easy, I can't say I know of another method that would allow this with less fatigue. Certainly a person slung up will not feel less ?

You have to hold the stock, you also control the rear bag, so this will be affected by the relaxation during recoil, this doesn't mean you are holding muscular tension against the bipod, your center of gravity moved forward does that. It's not your shoulder muscularly held forward, it's square and relaxed.

You say, yes there is muscular tension, but you're not qualifying it as to how with the bipod, only saying it exists, and is not ideal. Well where does it exist for you and what do you consider ideal? I think that rather than speaking generally about relaxation of the body during recoil, and generally about tension, you should break it down, after all it was your statement that the bipod requires more tension, so where is that applied for you specifically. NPA is fine tuned with a dry fire that shows minute movement in the reticle, it's not the gross adjustment for NPA, which is about lining up the barrel. Both are there to help minimize muscular tension, not maximize it. Being a fundamental I don't see how it is unique to the bipod.

This is about qualifying your statement, not generalities.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

I think in an earlier post I mentioned the sling is a more ideal support than the bipod as when properly adjusted it allows the body to completely relax into it. In contrast, the partical control offered by the bipod, does not allow for complete muscular relaxation. If bipods were better than slings or other forms of artificial support you'd see em in F class used by the top competitiors, thing is, you don't.

 

[Sleeper]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

Ah, F-class TR?

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

They use $1000, 7- position adjustable front tripod rests, and remove as much human contact as possible with the rifle. F Class is considered<span style="font-style: italic"> "Belly Benchrest" </span> because of the supports they use on the ground to hold the rifle.

as stated, <span style="text-decoration: underline">F/TR Class </span> a division of F Class uses a bipod only.

If slings were better everyone would be using them and ditching their bipod.

Take two palma rifles and give one shooter a bipod and the other a sling and I guarantee with matched shooters the bipod wins. Iron sights and all.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If bipods were better than slings or other forms of artificial support you'd see em in F class used by the top competitiors, thing is, you don't. </div></div>

Exactly what do you think the US F/TR team took Bisley for the FCWC last year? Friggin' slingshots?

For that matter, I've seen some people shoot some dangerously high scores using non-traditional bipods in F/Open as well... Des Parr and Danny Biggs come immediately to mind, and the Rumple bipods are still fairly popular with F/O types in Canada.

 

[Tactical]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

I sell slings and no matter what, the sling as field instrument is an alternative when other methods wont work or you can not get a solid FFP built fast enough. Lower more stable to ground you can get the better you are off.

I shoot F TR, which allows either sling or bipod. I pick bipod because it takes less effort to hold hard than with a sling.

Bipods rule F TR class and not many attempt to use asling against a bipod in serious F TR Comp. The Palma shooters who have done well in F TR Class have used a bipod.

 

[TiroFijo]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

Tactical, thanks for the dose of reality...

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

Of course, the bipod is used in F tactical, optional in other. At any rate, my example could have been better. The point is artifical/bone support is essential to a steady position; and, while a shooter can relax into a sling, and remain in such a condition until recoil has subsided, with bipod, it's about muscling into it, and maintaining such muscle until recoil has subsided. The problem is making the muscle consistent from shot to shot. Thing is, in "tactical" apparently, this is not noticed by some here as a problem. After all, when expectations or needs do not require all bullets to go in the same hole, the bipod could be fine. For anyone who is interested in hitting where aimed, exactly, then artifical supports such as the loop sling should be explored.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

Please,

What your saying does not ring true. Holding a rifle in place using "Sling Support" is stilling holding a rifle up, thus is muscling the rifle. It is merely supported by the sling which is attached to the shooter.

Watch the video and note the recoil action of the rifles movement. Clearly there is no muscling there.

I find it hard to think that you can convince anyone of otherwise, and here you have two members of the F Class Team contradicting your statements.

 

[vman]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

LL thanks for the vid

 

[memilanuk]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course, the bipod is used in F tactical
</div></div>

Try again. It's F/TR, as in 'Target Rifle', a category in Fullbore shooting roughly analogous to 'Palma Rifle' in the U.S.A.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...with bipod, it's about muscling into it, and maintaining such muscle until recoil has subsided. The problem is making the muscle consistent from shot to shot. </div></div>

This largely depends on what you term 'muscling'... I 'muscle' the gun about as much as I do when shooting sling - a little extra tension here or there to fine tune and steady the aim. The 'where' varies between form (sling or bipod) but it's not materially different in that the base position needs to be relaxed and centered on the target center with as little muscular effort as possible. The guys shooting from improvised positions in the field may have to employ some more body muscle to establish/hold their base position, but I don't think many of them are actively 'muscling' the gun very much beyond that...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After all, when expectations or needs do not require all bullets to go in the same hole, the bipod could be fine. For anyone who is interested in hitting where aimed, exactly, then artifical supports such as the loop sling should be explored. </div></div>

You're really losing me here... we shoot a target that has 1/4 the surface area to score on as compared to a conventional Prone 'sling' target, and you seem to believe that the sling is a more precise option? I'd wager my shots from a bipod - *any* bipod - come a lot closer to going in the same hole than yours do from a sling. I know some very, very good sling shooters, and have the utmost respect for what they can do slung up with a scope - but day in, day out, a bipod is going to be more consistent.

 

[Tactical]

Re: Harris Bipod and Recoil

What Sterling is saying is if you are inconsistent with bipod pressure it can cause changes in POI. That is true. Monte, you use a free floating bipod type of release. I use the dig the bipod in and create a vice type of release. I see a small difference between poi at extreme distances when I screw up with the dig into/load the bipod that I did not see when I used a real tight sling. You need to load in consistantly but that becomes second nature once you get hang of it.

Now with that said if you screw up and run a loose sling its worse again, so bottom line is done right the bipod wins over the sling.