Has anyone ever seen this in a new AR chrome lined barrel?

[David4570]

I may be over reacting to these bore scope images but has anyone ever seen anything like this in a new AR chrome lined barrel? The streaks can be seen in many places mid-bore. The picture of the “chip” was taken in the chamber.

I‘ve heard bore scopes can give us undue concern about the inside of our barrels but this barrel was fairly expensive and brought brand new through a respectable company. The images were taken the night of delivery. After my initial look-see I pushed an oiled patch down the tube to see if it was some kind of dirt/grime/grease. A little dark carbon like residue came out on the patch but that didn’t seem to remove any of the streaks. I’ll try copper remover after I get some feedback and discuss this with the selle.

Anyone ever seen this? Anyone know what these streaks are?
(Please don’t just respond - No problem, just shoot the shit out of it unless you’ve seen this in a new barrel and can tell me what these marks are)

 

[r.tenorio671]

....I would recommend you take pics & vids of the barrel BEFORE doing anything to clean or brush out the barrel. Run a bore & chamber brush thru it a few times then re-inspect, again taking pics & vids. It's a typical procedure to clean a new barrel before using, especially if it was test-fired by the manufacturer, so if it doesn't clear up after that expected "pre-use cleaning" contact the vender and discuss warranty options....return, replace or refund. Don't assemble it and fire rounds down it unless the vendor advises (in writing!) to do so.

...the reddish color makes me think "rust" and if it's a CL barrel, then the chroming process may have been deficient.....

 

[Jigstick]

While I certainly wouldn’t be happy if that was my barrel…you just never know. It could fucking hammer just as well. Won’t know until you try. Barrel manufacturer?

 

[JBoomhauer]

Looks a lot like stainless BA barrels I have seen.

 

[padom]

Did you shoot it? Thats all that matters. How does it shoot.

 

[David4570]

To be clear, I took the barrel out of its sealed plastic bag and scoped it. It looked like the pictures above. I pushed a clean patch with Hoppes oil down the tube and the first patch came out with minimal carbon fouling type residue. The next patch came out clean. The pictures were then taken to documen the appearance of the innards. I have not put the gas block on. Needless to say, no rounds fired by me.
I believe this is a lightweight 14.5” CHF FN barrel because of the “machine gun steel” number used as roll marked on the barrel but I can’t be sure. A well known rifle builder/seller had it on their website. I’ll name them if I reach the conclusion they should be contacted and don’t honor their warranty.
I wanted to see if anyone had solid information on this “condition“ before I contacted them. Thanks for your advice folks.

 

[David4570]

Two more pictures to show the nicer areas of the chrome lining. The streaks appear on maybe 25% of the lands and grooves more toward the middle of the barrel.

 

[whatsupdoc]

View attachment 7789633View attachment 7789634

I may be over reacting to these bore scope images but has anyone ever seen anything like this in a new AR chrome lined barrel? The streaks can be seen in many places mid-bore. The picture of the “chip” was taken in the chamber.

I‘ve heard bore scopes can give us undue concern about the inside of our barrels but this barrel was fairly expensive and brought brand new through a respectable company. The images were taken the night of delivery. After my initial look-see I pushed an oiled patch down the tube to see if it was some kind of dirt/grime/grease. A little dark carbon like residue came out on the patch but that didn’t seem to remove any of the streaks. I’ll try copper remover after I get some feedback and discuss this with the selle.

Anyone ever seen this? Anyone know what these streaks are?
(Please don’t just respond - No problem, just shoot the shit out of it unless you’ve seen this in a new barrel and can tell me what these marks are)

That looks like copper fouling, clean it with a copper remover.

 

[SupressYourself]

That barrel looks like ass. I believe the reddish stuff is rust. Even the "nicer" areas have significant tooling marks. This probably isn't a high-dollar precision barrel, but still...
But all these bore scope threads go the same way: Some people will tell you to quit being a bitch and just go shoot it. Others will tell you to not do anything until you contact the seller / manufacturer. I agree with the latter.
As to the former: Yeah, sure if it shoots, great, but if it doesn't, now your barrel is no longer "new", and you have far less leverage with the seller / manufacturer.

 

[sinister]

Looks like rust.

 

[padom]

That barrel looks like ass. I believe the reddish stuff is rust. Even the "nicer" areas have significant tooling marks. This probably isn't a high-dollar precision barrel, but still...
But all these bore scope threads go the same way: Some people will tell you to quit being a bitch and just go shoot it. Others will tell you to not do anything until you contact the seller / manufacturer. I agree with the latter.
As to the former: Yeah, sure if it shoots, great, but if it doesn't, now your barrel is no longer "new", and you have far less leverage with the seller / manufacturer.

How don't you have leverage when you have pictures of the barrel before being shot then factual data that it doesn't shoot (if it doesn't shoot)?

And yes, you see lots of posts saying people need to stop bitching about things in a barrel and go see how it shoots because even the best barrel makers barrels show inclusions and worm holing and other things that new fancy borescopes show and guess what, they shoot tiny bugholes...

Go shoot the barrel and get some real data first.

 

[6.5SH]

Copper oxidizes and can turn dark. If the patches with copper solvent turn blue/green it's copper. If the patches come out reddish it's rust.
As someone stated above BA stainless barrels often ship looking like that.

 

[Baron23]

How don't you have leverage when you have pictures of the barrel before being shot

There is a lot of "you shot it, you bought it" out there. That is the risk of shooting a barrel that seems to have some defects but its not clear that if they impact performance.

Just my view

 

[David4570]

I sent pictures of the barrel innards to the seller asking what they think the streaks and chip are. I await their comments

 

[RUTGERS95]

not a BA barrel and agree that looks like fouling but you said you got it from a sealed bag?
what brand barrel as you said CHF?

 

[n2ishun]

I have a FN CHF chrome lined 14.7" barrel that is a laser.
Don't ask me why, but it likes Fiocchi 223A better than even handloads and will put 25 shots into a quarter sized hole or smaller.
5 shot groups are usually all shots touching if I do my part....under 1/2 inch every time.
I'd clean it and go shoot it.

BTW it came in a nasty assed plastic vacuum sealed bag full of nasty oil and the barrel was dirty as hell.
So yea.

 

[Neurotic]

PSA or Spike's?

Looks like copper. Maybe try a cleaner with a copper solvent?

The throat looks rough. Maybe contact the "manufacturer" and see what they say. Perhaps they exchange it.

 

[David4570]

These are the roll marks on the barrel. I haven’t heard back from the seller yet. I think it’s a good idea to have them suggest a solution which I anticipate will include a good cleaning with some Patch Out and a little Accelerator. I have to say I’m impressed by the level of experience and barrel knowledge in the Hide. Thanks for all of your suggestions.

 

[Neurotic]

ST = Spike's Tactical?

 

[n2ishun]

Definitely not FN by those marks.
Are there any other marks on the barrel.....usually small and near chamber area.
Something along these lines....

https://www.nramuseum.org/media/940944/proofmarks.pdf

Here, this is the correct FN AR barrel marks.
Note the circular mark, that is on every FN AR barrel made.

 

[Neurotic]

Looks like Spike's Tactical, who has barrels made by FN...

AimSurplus, LLC

 

[David4570]

Yes, it’s directly from Spikes. I didn’t realize the ST was Spike Tactical. I think you’re right about Spikes getting them from FN.
I’d sure appreciate Spikes telling me to clean it out with a good copper remover and see if that resolves any doubt about the chrome finish.
Then I can put my own copper right back where it belongs.

 

[sinister]

If it was high-pressure proof-tested (HPT) by Army MIL-STD protocol then I wouldn't be surprised if the reddish smear-coloring isn't copper. M197 GI proof rounds are around 70,000 psi, and usually destroy the primer pocket.

 

[whatsupdoc]

Did you try to clean the barrel with copper solvent?

 

[whatsupdoc]

If it was high-pressure proof-tested (HPT) by Army MIL-STD protocol then I wouldn't be surprised if the reddish smear-coloring isn't copper. M197 GI proof rounds are around 70,000 psi, and usually destroy the primer pocket.

They are proof tested and magnetic particle tested, so what would the reddish marks be?
What moves through the barrel and leaves reddish skid marks?

 

[r.tenorio671]

Copper oxidizes and can turn dark. If the patches with copper solvent turn blue/green it's copper. If the patches come out reddish it's rust.
As someone stated above BA stainless barrels often ship looking like that.

....a generalized opinion that may be badly formed from reading internet ranting(s) by a disgruntled person(s). A majority of posts I've seen also stated those folks acquired their BA barrels from other sources, not directly from BA. Every barrel I've received directly from BA was in a sealed heavy duty plastic sleeve and the preservative oil was very obvious....since 2010. My latest BA barrel I ordered from Brownell's, a 6ARC and only because Brownell's had them in stock at the time. It too arrived in that sealed HD plastic sleeve.

 

[6.5SH]

....a generalized opinion that may be badly formed from reading internet ranting(s) by a disgruntled person(s). A majority of posts I've seen also stated those folks acquired their BA barrels from other sources, not directly from BA. Every barrel I've received directly from BA was in a sealed heavy duty plastic sleeve and the preservative oil was very obvious....since 2010. My latest BA barrel I ordered from Brownell's, a 6ARC and only because Brownell's had them in stock at the time. It too arrived in that sealed HD plastic sleeve.

I've ordered 8 of them direct from BA, 3 arrived looking exactly like that. It was rust, however there was no pitting. Some Kroil and a good scrub and it came right out.
Given they are in Florida it is likely the time of the year they were made.

 

[BCP]

Try some sweets 762 and scrub it a bit.

 

[RUTGERS95]

I've ordered 8 of them direct from BA, 3 arrived looking exactly like that. It was rust, however there was no pitting. Some Kroil and a good scrub and it came right out.
Given they are in Florida it is likely the time of the year they were made.

I call bs

 

[troupe]

That is rust in the barrel. Sometime during the chrome plating process, there are places that the chrome is thin in spots or sometimes does not adhere well. Chrome barrels can still rust, as you have seen.

 

[aslrookie]

I have a FN CHF chrome lined 14.7" barrel that is a laser.
Don't ask me why, but it likes Fiocchi 223A better than even handloads and will put 25 shots into a quarter sized hole or smaller.
5 shot groups are usually all shots touching if I do my part....under 1/2 inch every time.
I'd clean it and go shoot it.

BTW it came in a nasty assed plastic vacuum sealed bag full of nasty oil and the barrel was dirty as hell.
So yea.

Same. Mine is a 16” and all rounds touching with federal 69gr match ammo. I didn’t even bother running a boresnake through it when I got it. I just wiped the oil off and installed it.

 

[David4570]

The barrel in question came in a sealed plastic bag but it was dry as a bone. That might lend some credibility to the opinions that the reddish brown streaks are rust. I’ll wait until I hear from Spikes before putting any chemicals in the barrel. I’m sure they will either want it back so they can inspect it or tell me to try a copper solvent.
No sweat on my end, this is officially just a “spare barrel”, at least I can get a receiver set in the door without upsetting the Mrs. too much.

 

[padom]

The barrel in question came in a sealed plastic bag but it was dry as a bone. That might lend some credibility to the opinions that the reddish brown streaks are rust. I’ll wait until I hear from Spikes before putting any chemicals in the barrel. I’m sure they will either want it back so they can inspect it or tell me to try a copper solvent.
No sweat on my end, this is officially just a “spare barrel”, at least I can get a receiver set in the door without upsetting the Mrs. too much.

Again did you shoot it?? Lolol this is stupid.

 

[S197]

These are the roll marks on the barrel. I haven’t heard back from the seller yet. I think it’s a good idea to have them suggest a solution which I anticipate will include a good cleaning with some Patch Out and a little Accelerator. I have to say I’m impressed by the level of experience and barrel knowledge in the Hide. Thanks for all of your suggestions.

That’s not an FN, and I do not see a CHF or HF stamp. There are a lot of people stating “machine gun” steel to give people a false impression of the barrel manufacturer without lying. I hope that you didn’t pay much for it.

 

[David4570]

I stand corrected. $320, which may be too much. I guess I got it confused with the Spikes 14.5” optimum profile barrel which is advertised as CHF

 

[padom]

I stand corrected. $320, which may be too much. I guess I got it confused with the Spikes 14.5” optimum profile barrel which is advertised as CHG

I'd return it and buy the Craddock Bartleins on sale for $350 or so in 11.5 and 16" and then you can ping @Frank Green if you EVER Have concerns with their barrels and he will be quick to tell you exactly what's going on and what the problem is...but I'll guarantee you the first thing he's going to ask is...how did it shoot??

 

[Neurotic]

5.56 Barrel Midlength LE 16"

The barrel is one of the most critical components of your build. We only offer high quailty barrels so you can be confident that your rifle will be off to a good start with which ever barrel you decide on.

www.spikestactical.com

Clean it with something that'll strip copper.

 

[David4570]

I am happy to report that John Dowhy at Spikes just sent me an email offering to refund my purchase saying he’s not sure what the marks are but “Either way it shouldn’t be there”. I wish everyone in this industry were as honest, responsive and accommodating. Kudos to Spikes Tactical!
Stay well everyone and thanks for all of your responses.

 

[Milf Dots]

I am happy to report that John Dowhy at Spikes just sent me an email offering to refund my purchase saying he’s not sure what the marks are but “Either way it shouldn’t be there”. I wish everyone in this industry were as honest, responsive and accommodating. Kudos to Spikes Tactical!
Stay well everyone and thanks for all of your responses.

That's great service and much respect to John at Spike's!

 

[RUTGERS95]

I am happy to report that John Dowhy at Spikes just sent me an email offering to refund my purchase saying he’s not sure what the marks are but “Either way it shouldn’t be there”. I wish everyone in this industry were as honest, responsive and accommodating. Kudos to Spikes Tactical!
Stay well everyone and thanks for all of your responses.

spikes cs is awesome and I found their 14.5 lw barrel to be a laser (used in 3 builds)

 

[Frank Green]

I'd return it and buy the Craddock Bartleins on sale for $350 or so in 11.5 and 16" and then you can ping @Frank Green if you EVER Have concerns with their barrels and he will be quick to tell you exactly what's going on and what the problem is...but I'll guarantee you the first thing he's going to ask is...how did it shoot??

The orangish colored marks (with out seeing the barrel personally) looks like copper fouling) from the bullets jacket being stripped. I will say it is not rust.

Main question right now is...how does it shoot? How easy is it cleaning? If accuracy starts out good but goes sour in say 12-15 rounds...then you have a fouling issue and it could be starting right at the throat. If the accuracy holds and it is cleaning o.k.? Then shoot it and clean it when your done.

The marks in the throat are from when the barrel got chambered. If the reamer is dull and or not ground right etc...it will cut a rougher throat. The throat is what I say in a good barrel is the only thing you really break in. Also if the chamber was single point cut (cnc machined) and the tooling is dull and or the steel is not cutting nice....you end up with the same results as well.

The rougher the throat the more copper that is going to get stripped from the bullet when it makes the jump into the rifling. The marks go against bullet travel/direction. So basically its acting like a file and its shaving the copper off of the bullet.

Chrome plating doesn't necessarily help fix that. The chamber work etc...is done before the plating gets done. It can help smooth out imperfections but no guarantees.

Also from an accuracy stand point you don't want a chrome plated barrel. The chrome plating can build up at the ends and or effect the uniformity of the bore of the barrel. This will effect accuracy. Also when the chrome plating starts to flake/chip in the bore....the accuracy will go with out warning.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[David4570]

Thanks for your input Frank. The Spikes barrel is on its way back. Having come to the Hide for advice has me thinking about a better build, starting with barrel selection. This all got started because my son bought me a borescope after I’d been binge watching School of the American Rifle and talking about getting a scope. Turns out ignorance is bliss AND less expensive! I wish I hadn't seen your 400 MODBB barrel.
Your new SS has me wondering how well such an accurate SS barrel will hold up to high rates of 5.56 shooting — which might happen

BTW, After I made arrangements to return the Spikes barrel I saw a SOTAR video examining two new Hodge barrels and one looked great and the other looked just like the Spikes tube I had. The streaks were dismissed as copper fouling with no further comment. I probably wouldn’t have even written the post had I seen that video. But thanks again all.

 

[Frank Green]

Thanks for your input Frank. The Spikes barrel is on its way back. Having come to the Hide for advice has me thinking about a better build, starting with barrel selection. This all got started because my son bought me a borescope after I’d been binge watching School of the American Rifle and talking about getting a scope. Turns out ignorance is bliss AND less expensive! I wish I hadn't seen your 400 MODBB barrel.
Your new SS has me wondering how well such an accurate SS barrel will hold up to high rates of 5.56 shooting — which might happen

BTW, After I made arrangements to return the Spikes barrel I saw a SOTAR video examining two new Hodge barrels and one looked great and the other looked just like the Spikes tube I had. The streaks were dismissed as copper fouling with no further comment. I probably wouldn’t have even written the post had I seen that video. But thanks again all.

Your welcome!

The bore scopes can be good and can be a curse at times for us all. Sometimes you think you see something that is causing a problem but in reality it might not be a problem at all.

Again the copper streaks/fouling....some copper in the barrel is normal. Even as the barrel wears and the bore/throat gets rougher....fouling will go up. As long as it's not fouling/building up so bad that it's causing an accuracy problem..... don't sweat it. Shoot it and clean it. If the accuracy is going sour in say 12-15 rounds. Then you have a fouling issue. What's causing it is what you will have to determine.